Detailing: How to get Started with Machine Detailing

seech

Known Member
Senior Member
Jan 21, 2007
400
445
1,563
This is a continuation of my "Detailing: How To Get Started" thread which covered the basics of detailing.

After learning the basics of detailing, most people would want to move on to what is arguably the most impressive aspect of detailing.

The 50/50 shots of paint before and after correction.





STEP 4: CORRECTION

What is correction? CORRECTION is the process where any defects in the paint are corrected with the use of machines and products. Paint defects can be classified broadly into two main categories: problems inflicted to the paint such as scratches, swirls (which are actually minor scratches), oxidization, etc OR problems with the paint itself such as orange peel etc.

What exactly is correction? It is the process which the defect is removed.

Won't this thin out your paint? Yes it will. That is why the proper cleaning and protection of your cars paint to PREVENT swirls and scratches are the most important steps in detailing! DON'T DAMAGE YOUR PAINT!

For swirls and scratches, this would necessitate using a polish/compound to 'flatten' the paint back down to the level of the scratch thereby 'removing' the scratch. You don't actually remove a scratch but instead remove all of the other paint around it so that the scratch is no longer visible. Obviously there are limits as to how much paint you can (or should) remove and deeper scratches require too much paint to be removed and hence is not practical to remove as too much of the paint may be removed during correction.

Let's get started...

Can correction be done by hand?

My answer to that is, "How strong are your hands and how much time do you have?".

Of course you can use your hands but maybe you wouldn't want to... if its a small area then it is definitely possible to carry out the work by hand but if you were to do it for the entire car then maybe you should consider buying a polishing machine. Machines are just tools that make the work more efficient, faster and easier.

The principles are the same. You need to remove the surrounding paint to the same level as the lowest point of your defect to 'remove' it.

Assuming you don't have super-human hands (fingers, actually) and all the time in the world to compound and polish your entire car by hand, what options do you have?

Most beginners I know always start at the lower end of the machine polisher scale. While this may sound logical, I will explain why this logic may be flawed.

According to price, these are the options available to a detailer looking to get started with machine polishing.

- Orbital/rotary polishers that work at low speed. The type with two big handles and typically a cloth bonnet that is used to polish. Basically has a motor which turns at a slow speed which.... doesn't really do anything...
- Random Orbital Buffer (ROB) typically also used for sanding. Available with a velcro base to attach pads. Oscillates in a random manner on a free spinning head. Very safe to used as the oscillations are random and there is no forced rotation BUT maybe too safe...
- Dual Action Polisher (DA) which are designed for polishing. Bigger 'throw' in its oscillations allowing more correcting power. Also safe due to the free spinning head. Good for finishing off paint as the oscillations do not instill holograms.
- Rotary Polisher. THE MOST powerful tool for any detailer. Ability to correct severe paint defects BUT can cause damage if used improperly. Also, needs skill to finish off paint properly with a rotary.
- DA with forced rotation. An attempt to marry the power of a rotary with the finishing ability of a DA. Fantastic piece of machinery with decent correcting power coupled with the ability to finish off paint like a DA. Downside? Cost! Quite expensive if compared with the other polishers.

You need to know what your objectives are as that would determine which is a suitable choice for your needs.

Whatever your needs and objectives may be, I would not recommend anyone to buy the cheap low speed polishing machines especially if they don't have a velcro base to attach pads to it. Honestly, a waste of time and money.

The next step up, the ROB is typically where most enthusiast start, including yours truly. If you choose to start here, make sure that the machine has a velcro base to attach pads to and that it also has variable speed control.

Would I recommend a ROB? No..... The ROB is good for spreading wax or carrying out some very light paint cleaning but you will NOT be able to carry out any significant paint correction with it and if you're hoping to do this....


You will be dissapointed!

What about a DA and a Rotary? The price points are nearly the same.

For the more serious detailing enthusiast, I would ALWAYS recommend the rotary. It is the most powerful too a detailer has and is able to correct the most severe paint defects. With the proper pads/products and training, safe to use as well. Most of the warnings you read about how dangerous a rotary can be are over exaggerated if you ask me. It takes a LOT of abuse to actually burn your paint. That said, if you do buy a rotary, do me careful as it CAN do some damage if you're careless. Also, needs skill to finish paint properly without holograms.

There are quite a number of different rotaries available on the market. I would recommend getting a more expensive rotary with a lower minimum speed (600 rpm or so for finishing) and also a constant speed drive (the cheaper rotaries tend to slow down when pressure is applied).

DA? Nice to have to carry out lighter correction work and great for finishing paint. The cheaper DA's may have durability issues while the more expensive versions cost more than a rotary. I would recommend a DA as a second tool to compliment your rotary but never as the first as it still does not have sufficient correcting power.

That leaves the DA with Forced Rotation. To my knowledge there is only one on the market so I will mention the product name here. The Flex 3401 VRG Dual Action Orbital Polisher. DA action with forced rotation! Seems to be the perfect combination allowing sufficient correcting power with the finishing ability of the DA.

Quite expensive! But does a fabulous job. Again, this would not be a first choice as a rotary would still have more correcting power. As a second backup machine? This would be my choice over a DA due to its greater correcting abilities.

Basically, if you want to do this...




get a rotary.

If you want to finish like this...




learn how to use a rotary properly with the proper tools and/or get a DA.

If you want more correcting ability with the ability to finish like a DA...


Get a FLEX...


Hope some of you find this useful.
 

DarkAccoon

500 RPM
Senior Member
Nov 18, 2003
880
432
3,063
OKay..... this covers the theory part d..... anyone else wanna learn more gotta go hands on. Trust me when I say reading and doing is a totally two different thing.
 

seech

Known Member
Senior Member
Thread starter
Jan 21, 2007
400
445
1,563
Hands on? No problem. Come by our next detailing clinic and you can try out the various polishing machines to see what's right for you.
 

zckid

Known Member
Senior Member
Feb 28, 2012
235
238
543
Mauritius
Hands on? No problem. Come by our next detailing clinic and you can try out the various polishing machines to see what's right for you.
Count me in bro, :driver: even if i'm not physically there, the heart is there:wavey:
 

rs3

Junior Member
Mar 8, 2012
15
5
503
Kuala Lumpur
When is the next detailing clinic? Im keen in joining!
Btw,if u dont mind sharing, what pads would u recommend for the flex d/a and what pads do u use for this machine? I just recently purchased this sweet little machine and currently using meguairs m105/205 and also some optimim polish II /finishing and some lake country ccs pads.
I've given these bad boys a few tries, the result was just allright and the paint is a lot more shiny but i kept on getting those micromarrings and little scratches!

So i want to ask, could that be because of the pads/polish combo or is it my technique? i use speed of 5-6 with slow arm speed and medium/light pressure.
Any input will be much appreciated!!
 

kc2

1,000 RPM
Senior Member
Dec 2, 2009
1,354
1,410
1,713
Kuala Lumpur
thedetailers.blogspot.com
When is the next detailing clinic? Im keen in joining!
Btw,if u dont mind sharing, what pads would u recommend for the flex d/a and what pads do u use for this machine? I just recently purchased this sweet little machine and currently using meguairs m105/205 and also some optimim polish II /finishing and some lake country ccs pads.
I've given these bad boys a few tries, the result was just allright and the paint is a lot more shiny but i kept on getting those micromarrings and little scratches!

So i want to ask, could that be because of the pads/polish combo or is it my technique? i use speed of 5-6 with slow arm speed and medium/light pressure.
Any input will be much appreciated!!
Johan?
Not too far away, come and check it out yrself
Car detailing to so much about rocket science but rather is an art to be mastered


Thank you master seech for yr generous heart and passion to empowered others


ProDetailing: Porsche 930 Detail Featured in the Meguiar's Online Newsletter

Don't miss this legendary master retailer hands on class
 

fishbonezken

Senior Member
Senior Member
Feb 13, 2006
166
274
1,563
Fantastic write-up Seech! People should really read it and not skim through the post only looking at photos.

Anyway, for me, I believe the first machine of DA vs Rotary is very much dependent on the person.

If you are willing to spend the time learning the art of polishing, by all means get the rotary. If you want quick results with zero risks and only to maintain your household cars, a DA is a very good choice to start with.

The forced rotation Flex DA, in my humble opinion is a bit overrated. I had a relative hand carry back for me from the states, it only costs me RM1200, but I felt even at the low price point I purchased it for, it wasn't justified. The difference in polishing power between a DA vs Flex DA is not very huge. The maximum rotation speed on the Flex DA (speed 6) is 480 RPM, that is lower than speed 1 on a Makita 9227C rotary (600rpm), so those who are familiar with the Makita rotary can imagine how much cut the Flex DA will give even at speed 6. If money is no object, get it, if not, I would recommend a rotary(~RM800) + DA(~RM880).
 

seech

Known Member
Senior Member
Thread starter
Jan 21, 2007
400
445
1,563
Fantastic write-up Seech! People should really read it and not skim through the post only looking at photos.

Anyway, for me, I believe the first machine of DA vs Rotary is very much dependent on the person.

If you are willing to spend the time learning the art of polishing, by all means get the rotary. If you want quick results with zero risks and only to maintain your household cars, a DA is a very good choice to start with.

The forced rotation Flex DA, in my humble opinion is a bit overrated. I had a relative hand carry back for me from the states, it only costs me RM1200, but I felt even at the low price point I purchased it for, it wasn't justified. The difference in polishing power between a DA vs Flex DA is not very huge. The maximum rotation speed on the Flex DA (speed 6) is 480 RPM, that is lower than speed 1 on a Makita 9227C rotary (600rpm), so those who are familiar with the Makita rotary can imagine how much cut the Flex DA will give even at speed 6. If money is no object, get it, if not, I would recommend a rotary(~RM800) + DA(~RM880).
Hi fish. Thanks for adding on to this thread, I always respect and value your opinions as you are very fair and objective in your comments.

Was just trying to kick things off with the hope of other detailers contributing their productive comments instead of just trying to show how knowledgeable they are while not really saying anything. ;-)

I would agree with you on the Flex. It doesn't have that much ultimate cutting power and that is why I would always recommend a rotary for the serious detailer. However, the advantage of the Flex is that you can apply more pressure and the pad will still oscillate AND rotate, unlike with a DA.

Despite the cost, I would still go with the Flex over a DA. Is it worth the money? That is for the individual to decide. For me? I think the DA's are too expensive for what they are and the Flex is a quality German product.

If you're on a budget, get a rotary and learn how to use it properly...

---------- Post added at 07:37 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 07:35 PM ----------

The forced rotation Flex DA, in my humble opinion is a bit overrated. I had a relative hand carry back for me from the states, it only costs me RM1200, but I felt even at the low price point I purchased it for, it wasn't justified.
:-). Only cost RM1200.... Low price point. ;-)

Low if compard with what they sell it for over here but not really that low lah.... LOL... :-)
 

fishbonezken

Senior Member
Senior Member
Feb 13, 2006
166
274
1,563
Hi fish. Thanks for adding on to this thread, I always respect and value your opinions as you are very fair and objective in your comments.

Was just trying to kick things off with the hope of other detailers contributing their productive comments instead of just trying to show how knowledgeable they are while not really saying anything. ;-)

I would agree with you on the Flex. It doesn't have that much ultimate cutting power and that is why I would always recommend a rotary for the serious detailer. However, the advantage of the Flex is that you can apply more pressure and the pad will still oscillate AND rotate, unlike with a DA.

Despite the cost, I would still go with the Flex over a DA. Is it worth the money? That is for the individual to decide. For me? I think the DA's are too expensive for what they are and the Flex is a quality German product.

If you're on a budget, get a rotary and learn how to use it properly...

---------- Post added at 07:37 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 07:35 PM ----------



:-). Only cost RM1200.... Low price point. ;-)

Low if compard with what they sell it for over here but not really that low lah.... LOL... :-)
Haha, I should've added in the word 'relatively'...
 

seech

Known Member
Senior Member
Thread starter
Jan 21, 2007
400
445
1,563
Haha, I should've added in the word 'relatively'...
Yeah... Relatively. :-)

Well, at least you and me both have Flexes so that we can both provide feedback based on our experiences instead of speculating and formulating opinions as an 'educated enthusiast'. ;-)

Cheers fishy... Look forward to more of your fantastic reviews.
 

kc2

1,000 RPM
Senior Member
Dec 2, 2009
1,354
1,410
1,713
Kuala Lumpur
thedetailers.blogspot.com
Fantastic write-up Seech! People should really read it and not skim through the post only looking at photos.

Anyway, for me, I believe the first machine of DA vs Rotary is very much dependent on the person.

If you are willing to spend the time learning the art of polishing, by all means get the rotary. If you want quick results with zero risks and only to maintain your household cars, a DA is a very good choice to start with.

The forced rotation Flex DA, in my humble opinion is a bit overrated. I had a relative hand carry back for me from the states, it only costs me RM1200, but I felt even at the low price point I purchased it for, it wasn't justified. The difference in polishing power between a DA vs Flex DA is not very huge. The maximum rotation speed on the Flex DA (speed 6) is 480 RPM, that is lower than speed 1 on a Makita 9227C rotary (600rpm), so those who are familiar with the Makita rotary can imagine how much cut the Flex DA will give even at speed 6. If money is no object, get it, if not, I would recommend a rotary(~RM800) + DA(~RM880).
thanks fish for your input

lets put aside everything - and rotary..........for a moment

there will be not fishbonez at all...imagine if u would have started with a da....most probably yr enthusiasm would have died along the way...went to all together a different path

remember your 1st wet sanded hood ....u wouldnt have done it without a rotary which brought u to next the white knight saga......

yr makita still running great after all these years, so does ours....but i am not sure a china make DA can with stand the hours of usage...

i always give others a chance to find out themselves & hands on - that others might try even before they buy....

I miss your chopshop hood .....lets chop chop some more ya
 

rs3

Junior Member
Mar 8, 2012
15
5
503
Kuala Lumpur
Master seech, ur write up is very helpful and informative but i still need some answers. I've been doing a lot of reading from different forums and i am getting even more confused! My problem is the choice of pads since there are so many different kinds of pads in the market nowadays.

I am new to detailing and consider myself as a noob in detailing but i am doing all i can to improve myself.
I have a flex 3401 (never used a rotary before) and have a set of ccs pads. So far i have detailed a few cars(not mine) and the results is rather dissapointing. I've managed to remove the swirls but i somehow put in some new swirls onto the paint?

Overall, the flex is very easy to control and i have never burn thru a paint so i guess this machine is safe to be used by beginners like me.
 

KrisMas

Known Member
Senior Member
Apr 1, 2008
434
175
1,543
Mind telling us what compound/polishes you have/using? And what car you're working on (or plan to work on)?
 

seech

Known Member
Senior Member
Thread starter
Jan 21, 2007
400
445
1,563
Master seech, ur write up is very helpful and informative but i still need some answers. I've been doing a lot of reading from different forums and i am getting even more confused! My problem is the choice of pads since there are so many different kinds of pads in the market nowadays.

I am new to detailing and consider myself as a noob in detailing but i am doing all i can to improve myself.
I have a flex 3401 (never used a rotary before) and have a set of ccs pads. So far i have detailed a few cars(not mine) and the results is rather dissapointing. I've managed to remove the swirls but i somehow put in some new swirls onto the paint?

Overall, the flex is very easy to control and i have never burn thru a paint so i guess this machine is safe to be used by beginners like me.
Hi. I seldom come across detailing noobs who have a Flex 3401. Usually Flex's are bought by detailers wanting the ultimate DA.

While as I have mentioned in my post about the limitations of the Flex, I find it quite surprising that you are putting 'new' swirls onto the paint. The Flex is fundamentally a DA, albeit one with forced rotation but by nature the DA is the best too for which to finish paint with. The oscillating action ensures that the are no holograms left behind which is the problem with rotary polishers.

Although the Flex has forced rotation, it is still quite limited as to what it can correct so maybe it is possible that you have not fully removed the swirls on the paint and it appears as if you are instilling new swirls onto it. Perhaps you can elaborate a bit more on the problems you are facing or if you have pictures it would be good to take a look.

The Flex like any other DA is inherently a lot safer than a rotary so you really should have no issues with burning through paint.

As for the pads and products? That is really quite personal and there are so many choices on the market. I find that foam polishing pads work very well with the Flex or you can also try a finishing pad but I feel that a finishing pad may not be required with the Flex as it already finishes very well.

Also you can consider the new microfiber pads that are available in the market. Those seem to work very well with DA's and the Flex.
 

kc2

1,000 RPM
Senior Member
Dec 2, 2009
1,354
1,410
1,713
Kuala Lumpur
thedetailers.blogspot.com
Master seech, ur write up is very helpful and informative but i still need some answers. I've been doing a lot of reading from different forums and i am getting even more confused! My problem is the choice of pads since there are so many different kinds of pads in the market nowadays.

I am new to detailing and consider myself as a noob in detailing but i am doing all i can to improve myself.
I have a flex 3401 (never used a rotary before) and have a set of ccs pads. So far i have detailed a few cars(not mine) and the results is rather dissapointing. I've managed to remove the swirls but i somehow put in some new swirls onto the paint?

Overall, the flex is very easy to control and i have never burn thru a paint so i guess this machine is safe to be used by beginners like me.
bro...maybe you can give us a bit of enlightenment
how often to you wash yr pads?
after how many panel?
do you clay prior polishing? cleaning the paint with Multi purpose cleaner - CC safe like alien clean to remove surface contaminants?
how do you store your pads?
how old is your product?

cleanliness is the key of good finish :wavey:

waiting to hear
 

Random Post Every 5 Minutes

Hi all,
Im new to turbo world and need some advice on my new upgrade RVR 4G63 Turbo.
I have complete
1. stainless steel piping.
2. Works Fuel regulator.
3. Turbo timer
4. Turbo meter
5. Pivot speedcut
6. HKS blowoff
I did the dyno with 176HP & Torque 21.49

With the current standard ECU with TD04H, need advice what to install to achieve 300HP?

Current issue I have now are during uphill, there are no power at all unless pedal for more fuel or change L-gear. When I ask around...
Ask a question, start a discussion or post something for sale!
Post thread

Online now

Enjoying Zerotohundred?

Log-in for an ad-less experience