Type-R upgrades

[ehdrian]

Hello too felow EG.. hehe.. im still running stock on each bodyparts. Even still retain the curve EG8 spoiler. Hehehe. B18 engines are insanely expensive now.. with floor engine price can up to 5k w/o gbox. Im also interested in swapping B20 block.. Just i dont have basic idea of it.. Quite scared cuz a lotta my fren who do swap facing the problem i.e blok pecah, piston ring pecah n so on.. So maybe i can start by learning from u.. B20 block comes from CRV right? Non VTEC engine. So the rev are not high compared to B16. So how does it gain power actually?

Thanks for asking, i've been wanting to ask this for quite some time ade.

 

[peterj]

It gains power by pure displacement, I run a 85*89 setup, custom arias forged piston dome volume

1) cranks were sent for balancing along with the flywheel, crank pulley and clutch cover. This reduces vibration a lot, so it's a good step to do for B20B since the original was not designed to run at such a high rpm. only the crank is required, but since the cost is roughly the same, I sent everything.

2) rebore for 85mm. You will need to match each piston to bore. You cannot simply plonk them in and expect them to rev 8K+ without problems.

3) cylinder head work. Replace all valvetrain, no questions asked, you do not want simply plonk in a high duration and lift cam on aging valvesprings (they have a lifespan). you'll drop a valve, and boom! all your money down the drain.

Total I spent I think in the region of 15K plus
block was RM500, but the workmanship and parts came to that amount.

Sounds scary, but I did this in the span of 3-4 years, one step at a time, while using my B16A, I was preparing my B20B already.

But budget spec would be shaved CF4 pistons (reduce compression)
new oem valvetrain (new springs, retainers and keepers, so you don't break them and kill your engine) with type R cams with adjustable pulley, (so can increase overlap, and reduce compression to suit the fuel)
Balance the crank (and the various bits since the price is the same, they only do it once with everything you give them)
Get a bottom end brace, there's cheaper options with Super90 now, last time have to buy from a Type R (I think B18C GSR has them too)

Total should be about 8-9K or more, if you buy a second hand hondata or a new one, but you'd make more power than B18C.

With that said, B18C is a bargain at 5K... IF you don't modify it at all.

If you start modifying, then the 5K + mods will easily exceed 8-9K, and you'll still end up with a less powerful engine than a B20B vtec.Unless you go turbo, but it'll still cost you to replace the pistons and rods with forged items.

so the choice is yours.

I am doing 84mm oem bore spec since i am a daily driven car,my mech suggest stock bore are better....still ended up spending bout 11k plus doing all, btw, i din go balancing, engine still good even doing 40 dyno run with rpm more then 8k rpm...most is 9.4k.... But still, u can see high rev are point less, power drop, best is 8.5k....but now shitty tuning,need retune soon...

Specs are..b20 stock block rehone, 84mm cp 12.5comp piston,skunk2 rods, acl race series bearing, arp headstuds,built head with bc valve retainer, springs, type r rocker, skunk2 tuner 2 cams...mild port polished head...

Unsacred, u can find me when u want upgrade, lol, u can do budget way just like the sifu said, more more budget, use back the stock b20 internals with new bearing and stock head and valve, piston need mod for the valve clearance...then ok liao, it will not powerful as those fully built, but sure the low end torque are much better then those b16 and b18 unmodded

 

[ddv_nk12]

peterj, if I may ask, with 84mm 12.5 cr pistons, are you using RON 95 or 97? thanks

 

[peterj]

97 all the way..lol

 

[ddv_nk12]

Thanks for sharing bro. U mentioned that it is still possible to use high cams without changing the pistons by modifying the piston valve clearance right? How is this done and how much would it cost roughly?

 

[Unsacred8002]

97 all the way..lol

PeterJ..

Mun tune pakei RON95 blh juak ka sik? Hehehe.. im really intrested in getting those B20 mods. Just budget are my blocking factor now. I wanna learn first. Ok. Do i av to use any aftermarket High CR piston into those B20 block? Or can i use lets say B18CR piston with B20 conrod and crank into those B20? Playing with 11CR of ITR.

 

[ddv_nk12]

Unsacred,

AFAIK, B18C piston is 81mm and B20B bore is 84mm. U can still use oem 84mm B20B pistons. Not necessary to change to high compression pistons unless if u want more power. The cheaper option would be using the TX3 pistons which are 84mm or CF4 pistons which are 85mm. If 85mm, u need to rebore your block. Hope this helps.

 

[Unsacred8002]

Unsacred,

AFAIK, B18C piston is 81mm and B20B bore is 84mm. U can still use oem 84mm B20B pistons. Not necessary to change to high compression pistons unless if u want more power. The cheaper option would be using the TX3 pistons which are 84mm or CF4 pistons which are 85mm. If 85mm, u need to rebore your block. Hope this helps.

Thanks! Just for oem b20 84mm piston, how much is the compression ratio?

 

[ddv_nk12]

Around 9:1. 9.X:1 cant remember

 

[Unsacred8002]

Ok. Now come my big question. Hehe.

What does compression do with? Bigger compression means more power or little compression means more economical fuel consumption? SiR piston come with 10.4CR. CTR piston is 10.8CR while ITR makes 11.1CR. So if i were using B20 piston on SiR head, does it bring my power down since it have lower compression ratio?

 

[ddv_nk12]

Alamak, I dunno how to explain this la. Hahhaa

 

[shiroitenshi]

valve pockets can be cut slightly deeper. cost depend on the engineering shop

compression, read the ron95 read, explained there already.

I always prefer a rebore and hone, because if you want power, you want good ring seal, and you won't get that by taking pistons and putting them in without at least a hone , and if use different piston without rebore, you also risk piston seize when you stress the engine.

pistons aren't exactly the same even if they are 84mm. the skirts can vary by 0.1-0.2mm and sometimes that is the difference between the piston seize or not.

those old school mechs will tell you can do one, but your engine won't last. putting in piston without rebore or hone is workable, but not when you want high performance.



Sent from my GT-I9100G using Tapatalk 2

 

[Unsacred8002]

valve pockets can be cut slightly deeper. cost depend on the engineering shop

compression, read the ron95 read, explained there already.

I always prefer a rebore and hone, because if you want power, you want good ring seal, and you won't get that by taking pistons and putting them in without at least a hone , and if use different piston without rebore, you also risk piston seize when you stress the engine.

pistons aren't exactly the same even if they are 84mm. the skirts can vary by 0.1-0.2mm and sometimes that is the difference between the piston seize or not.

those old school mechs will tell you can do one, but your engine won't last. putting in piston without rebore or hone is workable, but not when you want high performance.



Sent from my GT-I9100G using Tapatalk 2

Good explaination.. thanks.

---------- Post added at 06:39 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 06:32 PM ----------

I read the wiki about compression ratio.. And to put it in the simplest way, higher compression ratio gives bigger power with less fuel use. Means the efficiency of the combustion are good. This are achieved through a correct mixture of air/fuel, and a good ignition system. Means high power+efficient fuel. Correct me if im wrong.

 

[peterj]

Sure can run ron95 with stock b20 or even with a 11.1 comp, tuning is the key... Stock b20 bout 9.6 9.8 to 1 the compression, but some how, new gen b20 if you lucky to get 1, compression is 10:1.. But some how, what i heard is, even u can machine the valve pocket, try not over do it, reliability will be an issue...and my point just now to machine the valve pocket is not to put high cam, it is that stock b20 valve is smaller then those b series with vtec, so the piston valve pocket also smaller as compare to b series vtec.. That is why need to machine....

I believe sometimes i need modern way of doing the engine, but somehow,these fucking experience mech ,old one, their experience seriously cant be underestimated, for example, they fitting bearing, no strip been use, simple torque wrench torque to the number they think ok, turn the crank testing with their magic hands, then ok liao...damn, lot of ppl having oil pressure problem if they do like that, but, none problem for him...what i know is, these guy experienced from doing honda engine repeatly, so i trusted him, somehow many powerful and reliable vtec engine built by him at my place, quite famous though, almost 55years old and do car at own house only....

---------- Post added at 09:18 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 09:16 PM ----------

And , the old school mach got rehone my block..lol

 

[Unsacred8002]

Sure can run ron95 with stock b20 or even with a 11.1 comp, tuning is the key... Stock b20 bout 9.6 9.8 to 1 the compression, but some how, new gen b20 if you lucky to get 1, compression is 10:1.. But some how, what i heard is, even u can machine the valve pocket, try not over do it, reliability will be an issue...and my point just now to machine the valve pocket is not to put high cam, it is that stock b20 valve is smaller then those b series with vtec, so the piston valve pocket also smaller as compare to b series vtec.. That is why need to machine....

I believe sometimes i need modern way of doing the engine, but somehow,these fucking experience mech ,old one, their experience seriously cant be underestimated, for example, they fitting bearing, no strip been use, simple torque wrench torque to the number they think ok, turn the crank testing with their magic hands, then ok liao...damn, lot of ppl having oil pressure problem if they do like that, but, none problem for him...what i know is, these guy experienced from doing honda engine repeatly, so i trusted him, somehow many powerful and reliable vtec engine built by him at my place, quite famous though, almost 55years old and do car at own house only....

---------- Post added at 09:18 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 09:16 PM ----------

And , the old school mach got rehone my block..lol

Peter
Whos ur mech? My mech is Luth at Demak. for tuning i always go to amads.

 

[peterj]

Luth?! Hahaha... U try ask him who is ah nak, but dont tell him why u ask....

 

[Unsacred8002]

Luth?! Hahaha... U try ask him who is ah nak, but dont tell him why u ask....

Ahaha.. ok bro. eh ur place ada sik buat service absorber? Change to new oil to make it stiffer.

 

[peterj]

Haha...no one in kuching so far can do it lar i think, we liveon trees dont we? Lol.... What absorber u using? Even the vtec garage got taking order service adjustable, they sent to semenanjung actually..

 

[Unsacred8002]

Im using Coilover on the stock EG6 absorber.. i did ask amad. he said cant do for stock. only for aftermarket. ijau tein, red gab. but also sent to kl. hehe

 

[peterj]

Sent to fstrader, zthmember, i think he can do...but no point since it is still not enough if u go high performance....i am using hwl hi lo but still feel not much stable in hi speed cornering as compared to my tein last time.. Not too long before i gonna change it..lol