Proton 4G13/4G15....Satria/Wira/Saga

[HaxDuum]

ooo~ 12.4k....lolx tats alot haven plus labour, handling, brakes...etc..
so tofu sifu, roughly with 12.4k whp would b how much?

 

[tofu_manic]

bro tofu, powerzone's iswara 147HP is on engine or wheels?

like sky sed, those horses are at engine figures

hi, been away for a while..seems to be a lot of question regarding 4g13p rebore to fit 1.5 piston here..well i have done it to my car, so i can share some experience..from the information i got from some mechanics, they told me the block dimension, the head dimension (maybe the cams or rockers degree differs for 1.3 or 1.5 application) and the crankcase is the same..the block even come out from the same mould, but then rebore to 1.3 and 1.5 (71mm and 75.5mm) respectively..so material used and even the composition is the same..so, if the mechanics is right, i guess that explains why 1.5 block can replace 1.3 block without need to change the headers and crankcase..as for durability, i've driven my car, which is 1.3 rebore to 1.5 for 6-7 hours from kuantan to taiping at speed of 120km/h mostly and made short stop to pee only and it has proven to be problem and overheating free..the trip is 495km and i made it with one full tank with about a quarter gauge to spare..i also once full blast the engine from kuala lumpur to kuantan via lebuhraya pantai timur, maintaining 170km/h from karak to kuantan..also problem free..however engine oil nearly dry out, i guess it's because i'm using rm38.00 20W/50 multi vis pennzoil engine oil..

then there u go, good testimonial!

which means it shud be ok, but then again this leaves me wondering, why does powerzone only state that their stroker kit is for 4g15, and not for 4g13? (i am NoT doubting ur testimonial in any way or what la :P)

ooo~ 12.4k....lolx tats alot haven plus labour, handling, brakes...etc..
so tofu sifu, roughly with 12.4k whp would b how much?

not sure, but give or take 15x hp to 16x hp at crank, not whp (rough guess only)

 

[HaxDuum]

oic...seems like there is a limit for 4g15 hm...no money now...T.T
anyway, putting twin weber better or bot better?
now i m overhauling my engine, should i port polish? can i add a bigger piston like from 1.8 engine or gti??

 

[khguan]

afmarsyal,

one question... u rebore 1.3 block to fit in 1.5 pistons

how much to do that?

there is always a debate on changing to 1.5 block is always cheaper than reboring

 

[tofu_manic]

oic...seems like there is a limit for 4g15 hm...no money now...T.T
anyway, putting twin weber better or bot better?
now i m overhauling my engine, should i port polish? can i add a bigger piston like from 1.8 engine or gti??

putting in twin weber better or bot better? which one do u like??? urs is efi? it boils down to ur budget, and ur preference

overhaul engine? if ur engine is still stock, yeah u can do a light port and polish, just do some intake / exhaust gasket matching, skim the head to bump up the compression a bit

bigger piston, yeah u can find oversized 4g15 piston, a 76mm one will bump up ur cc by a bit only, about 2x to 3x cc i think, lazy to count liao

1st of all....as many times it has been stated, put down ur budget la dude, if no budget then i recommend u to upgrade to a veyron, looks good, goes fast

 

[afmarsyal]

hahaha..tofu sifu..good question..i once called the powerzone people..quite long time ago asking about installing stroker kit and hi cam price quotation..the person receive my call state that, 'yes u can but u onli can get about 1.4cc..'

i think the mech who gave me info on 1.3 and 1.5 block came out from same mould have logical explanation..proton, or even mitsubishi won't spend precious money to develope each engine part to suit specific part only..to reduce production cost, better produce interchangeable part and rebore or lathe to size..from thorough observation, 1.3 block sleeve or slit (sarung blok..alaa..the one you can replace by reboring and refitting at engineering wshop when you run out of piston size..i really don't know the specific term for it.. :P) is a lot thicker than 1.5..cost effective solution..but this mech is under the tree old school one..i'm not sure but the explanation really makes sense..

sifu guan aaa..i did it plus internal 1.5 items (pistons and rings) plus labour + lubes rm6++ onli..to be exact, rm670.00..but that varies on how much internal parts can be salvage and use back..i don't change everything..even the conrod and a lot of bearings i use back..during that time not enough money to change everything new :P..emergency maintenance..

owh, by the way, i asked eon service padang lalang kuantan about the price for a 1.5 block..the mech said rm400 a piece..is it true? is it a new one or halfcut? not enough time to clarify on that with the mech.. :P

p/s : haxdumm..sifu tofu correct maa..buy veyron lor..

 

[khguan]

yeah RM400 is normal price for a block

Bump: yeah RM400 is normal price for a block

 

[tofu_manic]

hahaha..tofu sifu..good question..i once called the powerzone people..quite long time ago asking about installing stroker kit and hi cam price quotation..the person receive my call state that, 'yes u can but u onli can get about 1.4cc..'

i think the mech who gave me info on 1.3 and 1.5 block came out from same mould have logical explanation..proton, or even mitsubishi won't spend precious money to develope each engine part to suit specific part only..to reduce production cost, better produce interchangeable part and rebore or lathe to size..from thorough observation, 1.3 block sleeve or slit (sarung blok..alaa..the one you can replace by reboring and refitting at engineering wshop when you run out of piston size..i really don't know the specific term for it.. :P) is a lot thicker than 1.5..cost effective solution..but this mech is under the tree old school one..i'm not sure but the explanation really makes sense..

sifu guan aaa..i did it plus internal 1.5 items (pistons and rings) plus labour + lubes rm6++ onli..to be exact, rm670.00..but that varies on how much internal parts can be salvage and use back..i don't change everything..even the conrod and a lot of bearings i use back..during that time not enough money to change everything new :P..emergency maintenance..

owh, by the way, i asked eon service padang lalang kuantan about the price for a 1.5 block..the mech said rm400 a piece..is it true? is it a new one or halfcut? not enough time to clarify on that with the mech.. :P

p/s : haxdumm..sifu tofu correct maa..buy veyron lor..

honestly im not too sure about this myself..bout what the powerzone guy sed, it doesnt make any sense that if the stroker kit is placed into a 4g13, u will only get 1400cc (not 1.4cc la :P)...since the bore and stroke is the same, 76 x 87.3 no matter what will yield close to 1600cc....UNLESS they were somehow talking about using the 4g18 crank matched with some other type of short pistons...did they clarify? whether it was just using the crank? or the complete kit with a 4g13?

yeah, i understand what ur mech is saying, i do think about that as well...dimensions all the same, intake/exhaust port all the same, haih....shud have calculated the wall thickness the other day, darn

 

[afmarsyal]

tofu sifu, that day when i asked powerzone guy, my engine still 1.3..i asked them because i'm really annoyed with power delivery of 1.3 engine..i'm a common user of jalan genting sempah to batang kali from kuantan enroute to taiping..so when i asked the powerzone, i believe that guy is thinking, bore x stroke is 71 x 87.3 la kot..that's why the guy said 1.4..hehehehe :)

 

[tofu_manic]

tofu sifu, that day when i asked powerzone guy, my engine still 1.3..i asked them because i'm really annoyed with power delivery of 1.3 engine..i'm a common user of jalan genting sempah to batang kali from kuantan enroute to taiping..so when i asked the powerzone, i believe that guy is thinking, bore x stroke is 71 x 87.3 la kot..that's why the guy said 1.4..hehehehe :)

ori 4g13 piston wont fit with the longer stroke crank under the engine head, as the piston is too long, if u notice, the 4g18 piston is really short

oh well....hopefully someone out there can use their calipers and start calculating lol

i will loiter around the local workshop here, and try look see look see a bit

 

[jswong]

yes.. the ECU will adjust the duty cycle accordingly to get the proper a/f ratio.

mechanics do not know the power of SVDO... and most of them do not know how to deal with it... cos everything seems cannot tune... so that's y they say no good.. in fact SVDO ecu is a very powerful ECU... it can take or compensate a many small engine defects and tune the engine to run on the best stock settings.. unless the parameters are off the limits.. then u will see the check engine light..

like my car MMC, the moment i started the engine after the rebuild.. the mapping are all not right... i'm getting black smoke at the exhaust and no power at all... need to perform PDT tuning in order to get the engine running smoothly... on SVDO.. the engine just start smoothly without any electronic tuning at all... i was quite amazed that time when i started the car...

so it is up to u to judge which is better.... well for me.. i think both have their strengths and weaknesses... MMC have the flexibility to do more tuning capabilites like the ignition timing and able to fit in a piggyback for further tuning.

This is very true, people are just parroting that "MMC is better than SVDO" just because MMC is dumb enough to be fooled by a piggyback while SVDO isn't. However, SVDO for Proton cars (EMS 400 series?) isn't a full closed-loop ECU system, it's only closed loop until 3500 rpm. After that it functions in open-loop mode.

Powerzone uses the Power Commander lambda sensor piggyback for SVDO ECU for lambda value modification. Not sure whether Power Commander can configure for an open-loop cutover rev point and switch over to MAP/MAF value modification. For semi closed-loop ECU systems like SVDO, the only sort of piggyback that'll work is one that combines the functions of a lambda sensor piggyback and a regular MAP/MAF piggyback, with the ability to define the closed/open loop cutover zone.

 

[HaxDuum]

wan to know more ma, so can put items into my wish list...chill dude

 

[afmarsyal]

ori 4g13 piston wont fit with the longer stroke crank under the engine head, as the piston is too long, if u notice, the 4g18 piston is really short

oh well....hopefully someone out there can use their calipers and start calculating lol

i will loiter around the local workshop here, and try look see look see a bit

ooo...i see..never saw the stroker kit in person..just gave a call to the shop only..but from sifu tofu statement, i got a bit confused here..i thought 1.5 piston and 1.3 piston same length..those 2 piston i have seen in person..one is quite small, one is bigger..but standing same height..is it the powerzone rebore and refit 4g18 piston as well for the stroker kit installation? from the advertisement, i did see pistons come as part of the package..if so, block 1.3 oso can la..but need to further rebore and fit the 4g18 piston..maybe comes with additional cost? after all, 71mm to 75.5mm can, why 75.5mm to 76mm cannot..just a little bit more to rebore..i did see the block sleeve is about 2mm thick after rebore to 75.5mm

however i still stumble upon some mech, that claims 4g13 block and 1.5 block not the same..this mech claims to be regular participants in jempol drag battle.. :P pening oredi..why not someone try to fool the powerzone people by sending a 1.3 block rebore to 1.5 and put in the 1.6 stroker kit in..if can fit, my under the tree old school mech is right..if can't, so 1.3 block and 1.5 block is different..the problem is, the engine number and displacement is engrave to the block, some mech look at it only immediately say cannot.. :P reason is, the block is weaker than 1.5..surely la will get that answer..

so my next project is to install this stroker kit..i still dunno when yet because i think my current setup is fun oredi..but still, untill this 1.3 to 1.5 thingy not proven, i'm restless..arghh

 

[tofu_manic]

wan to know more ma, so can put items into my wish list...chill dude

chill memang chill...just that it is difficult to give suggestions when u dont state a budget, as u asked about what u shud do since u are overhauling the engine edi...

and the answer to some stuffs u asked about are in this thread i think, do read the thread dude, some good info in there, can start compiling the list from there

ooo...i see..never saw the stroker kit in person..just gave a call to the shop only..but from sifu tofu statement, i got a bit confused here..i thought 1.5 piston and 1.3 piston same length..those 2 piston i have seen in person..one is quite small, one is bigger..but standing same height..is it the powerzone rebore and refit 4g18 piston as well for the stroker kit installation? from the advertisement, i did see pistons come as part of the package..if so, block 1.3 oso can la..but need to further rebore and fit the 4g18 piston..maybe comes with additional cost? after all, 71mm to 75.5mm can, why 75.5mm to 76mm cannot..just a little bit more to rebore..i did see the block sleeve is about 2mm thick after rebore to 75.5mm

however i still stumble upon some mech, that claims 4g13 block and 1.5 block not the same..this mech claims to be regular participants in jempol drag battle.. :P pening oredi..why not someone try to fool the powerzone people by sending a 1.3 block rebore to 1.5 and put in the 1.6 stroker kit in..if can fit, my under the tree old school mech is right..if can't, so 1.3 block and 1.5 block is different..the problem is, the engine number and displacement is engrave to the block, some mech look at it only immediately say cannot.. :P reason is, the block is weaker than 1.5..surely la will get that answer..

so my next project is to install this stroker kit..i still dunno when yet because i think my current setup is fun oredi..but still, untill this 1.3 to 1.5 thingy not proven, i'm restless..arghh

yes, pistons are part of the stroker kit....still....i dont understand why powerzone sez it is only for 4g15, im sure they would like the potential market for the stroker kit to be bigger, not smaller rite....still i wish someone could clarify this, haih....if not many ppl will upgrade to the 4g15 block for no reason....

i too am restless hehe, question marks popping left and right

 

[khguan]

the reason ppl say 1.3 block cant fit in 1.6 stroker or cant stroke to 1.5 is bcos of the cylinder liner not enough "meat" to be bored. I always hear this... but still got ppl do it... so i guess reliability is the issue here lo..

 

[tofu_manic]

then again...the 4g13 intake / exhaust lines up perfectly the same as the 4g15 block, with outer dimensions being the same...

imagine...if both blocks have not been bored...being just a solid engine block with no holes...then wont this mean that they are identical? then suddenly u bore one block....with a 71mm hole....the other one with a 76mm hole....isnt this the case we are seeing now

the crank, conrods share the same position....so the Center of each 4g13/15 pistons' locations should be exactly the same as well...so distance between the 4g13/15 piston Center should be the same...then by right....whatever u can throw into the 4g15 block....shudnt it be the same with the 4g13 as well?

so whaddya think...anything flawed in the reasons above? im not too sure myself

 

[langsuyrx]

so many sifu in here... mind stepping in ? where to get low compression piston for 4g15p? tq :)

 

[afmarsyal]

then again...the 4g13 intake / exhaust lines up perfectly the same as the 4g15 block, with outer dimensions being the same...

imagine...if both blocks have not been bored...being just a solid engine block with no holes...then wont this mean that they are identical? then suddenly u bore one block....with a 71mm hole....the other one with a 76mm hole....isnt this the case we are seeing now

the crank, conrods share the same position....so the Center of each 4g13/15 pistons' locations should be exactly the same as well...so distance between the 4g13/15 piston Center should be the same...then by right....whatever u can throw into the 4g15 block....shudnt it be the same with the 4g13 as well?

so whaddya think...anything flawed in the reasons above? im not too sure myself

yes..if you can see, 1.5 block has very thin wall surrounding the piston compare to 1.5..if don't believe, open one 1.3 block..i remember one posting here showing a standard 1.5 block..from sifu guan i think, regarding modifying a siemens ecu 4g15p..the pistons seemed super big..but it's standard..well in 1.3 block, the pistons didn't seemed that big..

 

[biz-da-tech]

tofu miniac - u do post a topic upgrade stocker kit for 4g13p at marketplace ?

the guy i have call and he said that is stock piston 1.5,conrod ,crank shaft,oil pum.

and no need to do anything to 4g13 engine just plug and play???

well i dont know why.

but i ask my mech said 4g13 block cannot fit 4g15 piston...

may someone tell me the price fit in all those stock 4g15 stucker kit into 4g13p are really need how much money?

but as i know the powerzone stucker kit is very expensive .. like not worth the money :P.
but i did asked before like 1 years before someone said powerzone stroker kit is for 4g13p and plug and play too...?

HaxDuum

i stay in Penang :p

but i think my Vdesign not same like others but a few parts sure same. LOl or else i dunno. for penang im the 1st Vdesign different from others.

if u penang sure we need come out yum cha

 

[tofu_manic]

yes..if you can see, 1.5 block has very thin wall surrounding the piston compare to 1.5..if don't believe, open one 1.3 block..i remember one posting here showing a standard 1.5 block..from sifu guan i think, regarding modifying a siemens ecu 4g15p..the pistons seemed super big..but it's standard..well in 1.3 block, the pistons didn't seemed that big..

yea...only thing left is for someone with calipers to measure hehe

tofu miniac - u do post a topic upgrade stocker kit for 4g13p at marketplace ?

the guy i have call and he said that is stock piston 1.5,conrod ,crank shaft,oil pum.

and no need to do anything to 4g13 engine just plug and play???

well i dont know why.

but i ask my mech said 4g13 block cannot fit 4g15 piston...

may someone tell me the price fit in all those stock 4g15 stucker kit into 4g13p are really need how much money?

but as i know the powerzone stucker kit is very expensive .. like not worth the money :P.
but i did asked before like 1 years before someone said powerzone stroker kit is for 4g13p and plug and play too...?

not stucker, StrokeR hehe

anyways, the 4g13 shares the same conrods, and crankshaft as the 4g15, so dont bother getting an identical crank and conrods from the fella, when u have them already...only the 4g15 pistons are different

1600cc stroker kit is expensive, but good stuff...u wanna get easy power just stuff in the 4g15 pistons, and ure done, instant 1468cc