lightened/underdrive pulleys

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shiroitenshi

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Hmmm anyone using lightened crank pulleys? Just wondering if it makes a difference in your opinion.. I think the size sort of negates any benefits that can affect drivetrain resistance...

Still for my car which inherently has low hp, I wonder if stuffing these on might help.. :P

URpulley.jpg
 
this engine urs aaa? just shipped to u or what?
this pulley will cost u 1k+. the material very nice.
 
can this one be used with air con and power steering? i read that type R N1 cant support those.
 
copy something down:


Lightened Underdrive Pulleys
1) "What are Unorthodox Racing Ultra Series pulleys?"

Unorthodox Racing pulleys are available in seven (7) types. The first type is the accessory pulley/s (Ultra A). These pulleys are the same diameter as the OEM (original), accessory pulley/s they are replacing and they are significantly lighter. The accessory pulley/s are part of what makes up our full pulley sets, these sets also include the crank pulley. Most importantly, the accessory pulleys are available separately for owners who have already purchased one of our lightened crank pulleys and now want the accessory pulleys to finish their pulley set.

The second type is the underdrive crank pulley, utilizing the original belt layout (Ultra S). It drives all the accessories that were available in the car from the factory. This version is up to 20% smaller in diameter, underdrive or reduction in diameter (see the previous question). Most importantly this version is from 60-90% lighter than the OEM crank pulley/s they replace. This is why all of the underdriving, reduction in diameter, is done at the crankshaft pulley to maximize the reduction in weight on the crankshaft

The third type is the stock diameter or overdrive crank pulley, utilizing the original belt layout (Ultra Sc). The section that drives the alternator or aftermarket supercharger in this version is either the same diameter or slightly larger than the OEM crank pulley. The other belt section/s not used for the alternator or supercharger are up to 20% smaller. This prevents accessories like the a/c from robbing precious HP from your engine. This version is designed to maintain alternator output at exactly or slightly above stock output levels for car owners with big stereos (over 600 watts) or for audio competitions where system voltage must maintain specified levels (see your sanctioning body's rules). This version is also designed to either maintain the original level of boost from the aftermarket supercharger kit or increase the boost (see the application guide for available sizes).

The fourth type is an underdrive crank pulley for single belt conversion from the OEM multi-belt layout (Ultra R). This version was designed to drive only the alternator or alternator and water pump (depending on the application). It is used for engine swaps or for the racer where only the alternator is being used. This version has the same percentage of underdriving (or diameter reduction) as the Ultra S version but is 90-95% lighter than the OEM crank pulley it replaces.

The fifth type is the stock or overdrive diameter crank pulley (Ultra Rc) for single belt conversion from the original multi-belt layout. The section of the pulley that drives the alternator or aftermarket supercharger in this version is either the same diameter or slightly larger than the OEM crank pulley. This is done to maintain alternator output at exactly or slightly above stock output levels for car owners with big stereos (over 600 watts) or for audio competitions where system voltage must maintain specified levels (see your sanctioning body's rules). This version is also designed to either maintain the original level of boost from the aftermarket supercharger kit or increase the boost (see the application guide for available sizes).

The sixth type is the underdrive pulley set, utilizing the original belt layout (Ultra SS). The underdrive pulley set includes the underdrive crank pulley and the accessory pulleys (Ultra A) for the air pump (where applicable), alternator, idler, power steering and water pump, depending on your application. The pulley sets use no additional underdrive, meaning the underdrive is the same as with our crank pulleys (Ultra S). As a result, you will have no electrical, cooling or power steering problems. The a/c is still driven from the crank pulley in the Ultra SS kits so don't think it has to be removed or can't be used.

The seventh type is the stock diameter or overdrive diameter pulley set, utilizing the original belt layout (Ultra SSc). The pulley set includes the stock or overdrive diameter crank pulley and the accessory pulleys (Ultra A) for the air pump (where applicable), alternator, idler, power steering and water pump, depending on your application. The section of the crank pulley that drives the alternator or aftermarket supercharger in this version is either the same diameter or slightly larger than the OEM crank pulley. The other belt section/s not used for the alternator or supercharger are up to 20% smaller. This prevents accessories like the a/c from robbing precious HP from your engine. This version is designed to maintain alternator output at exactly or slightly above stock output levels for car owners with big stereos (over 600 watts) or for audio competitions where system voltage must maintain specified levels (see your sanctioning body's rules). This version is also designed to either maintain the original level of boost from the aftermarket supercharger kit or increase the boost (see the application guide for available sizes). The a/c is still driven from the crank pulley in the Ultra SSc kits so don't think it has to be removed or can't be used.
2) "What is underdriving/underdrive or overdriving"

Underdriving/underdrive is slowing the speed of the accessories, or the driven component, from the original speed they were turned by the OEM crank pulley. Underdriving can be accomplished in two ways. First is by increasing the diameter of the accessory pulley/s. The problem with this method is that it increases the size of the accessory pulley/s which increases their weight. Weight reduction is the most important key to increasing engine performance and response. This method also eliminates the ability to underdrive the a/c, which is a tremendous robber of horsepower.

The second method, used by Unorthodox Racing, is by reducing the diameter of the main drive pulley or crank pulley. By using this method we can achieve the best ratio of size reduction, underdriving, and most importantly we can maximize the reduction of weight on the crank pulley where most of the weight savings can be seen. This reduction in weight reduces the moment of inertia allowing your engine to respond faster to throttle inputs and perform better at all RPM's. Since this method allows underdriving of the a/c we can maximize the performance of our kits by not leaving any accessories to rob precious horsepower from your engine.

Overdriving is increasing the speed of the accessories, or driven component (like a supercharger), from the original speed they were turned by the OEM crank pulley. This can be done or accomplished in two ways. First is by decreasing the diameter of the accessory pulley/s. The second method, used by Unorthodox Racing, is by increasing the diameter of the main drive pulley or crankshaft pulley. Overdriving can be used to either increase the boost output of a supercharger or to increase alternator output due to increased voltage demand from a large/competition stereo or auxiliary lighting system.
3) "How do Unorthodox Racing pulleys give me more power?"

Weight loss is the most critical factor in making, or more accurately, relesing Horsepower! Each pound of weight taken off the engines rotating assembly is worth approximately 2.7HP and the figure increases dramatically with forced induction, nitrous, VTEC and increased RPM's. Only 15-20% of the gains seen from our pulleys comes from the underdriving. The diameter of each of our crank pulleys is reduced up to 20%. We tailor the exact amount of underdrive to each vehicle based on factory specified accessory performance. We fully maintain all accessory output minimums like air conditioning efficiency, power steering feel, and voltage (minimum allowable voltage 12v) even at idle with everything electrical on in the car. There are no adverse effects from using any of our pulley versions. Bolt them on and forget about them, then just follow your vehicles normal maintenance schedule.
4) "Is my crank pulley a harmonic/torsional/vibration damper or a harmonic balancer?"

People are getting their crank pulleys confused with the harmonic dampers found on some V6 / V8 engines. "Harmonic Balancer" is a term that is used loosely in the automotive industry. Technically, this type of device does not exist. The "balancer" part comes from engines that are externally balanced and have a counterweight cast into the damper, hence the merging of the two terms. None of the applications that we offer utilize a counterweight as part of the pulley as these engines are internally balanced.

The pulleys on most of the new import and smaller domestic engines have an elastomer (rubber ring) incorporated into the pulley that looks similar to a harmonic damper. The elastomer in the OEM pulley serves as an isolator, which is there to suppress natural vibration and noise from the engine itself, the A/C compressor, P/S pump, and alternator. This is what the manufacturers call NVH (Noise Vibration & Harshness) when referring to noticeable noise and vibration in the passenger compartment. It is important to note that in these applications, this elastomer is somewhat inadequate in size, as well as life span, to act as an effective torsional damper. If you look at the pulleys on some of the imports there is no rubber to be found at all. We have samples of these, mostly from Acura/Honda, the Nissan Altima, 1.8L Eclipse, 2.3L Fords, Chrysler 2.2L's, and 1.8L VW's, to mention a few. This is not to say that with our pulleys you will hear a ton of noise or feel more vibration from your engine compartment. Most who have installed and driven a vehicle with our pulleys will notice the engine actually feels smoother. This is a natural result of replacing the heavy steel crank pulley with a CNC-machined aluminum pulley. NVH is variable and unique to every car. NVH will increase with the installation of an aftermarket intake and/or exhaust, for example. Think of OEM intake systems in newer cars, they use baffles and resonators in the intake to quiet all the intake noise. Aftermarket intakes eliminate these resonators and create dramatic increases in engine noise from the throttle opening and closing. So to most tuners, certain types of NVH can make the driving experience more enjoyable.

The purpose of a traditional harmonic damper is to protect against crank failure from torsional movement. This is not necessary in most modern engines because of the many advances in engine design and materials. Factors such as stroke, displacement, inline, V configurations, power output, etc., do determine when and how these harmonics and torsional movements occur.

Again, there is a lot of internet hearsay about the pulleys. When engine problems occur, too often people are quick to blame the pulley first, rather than taking the time to look logically into why there was a problem. We hope that after reading this you will understand the crank pulleys better.
5) "Will Unorthodox Racing lightened pulleys cause an oil pump failure?"

Urban myths have been floating around about Honda oil pumps failing by using an Unorthodox Racing crank pulley/s. The real fact is that these OEM pumps have been failing with AND WITHOUT the use of our pulleys and before our crank pulley/s were available on the market. Also note that these failures are few and far in between.

The Acura/Honda oil pumps are excellent units, but there are a number of reasons for the failures that do occur.

Most of the oil pump failures have been in Acura/Honda B series 1.6/1.8L applications. The Mazda 1.6/1.8L applications have seen a few failures, as well as the new Ford Focus ZETEC in race vehicles. Again, note that on all these applications the oil pump failures have occurred on engines not using our pulley, using the stock crank pulley.

These pump failures can be linked to the following causes. These causes may act individually or in combination to cause the actual failures:

* The gears used in many pumps including those in the Honda B series engines and Mazda Miata engines are of a low-cost powdered metal composition. The factory uses this metal because of its acceptable cost-to-strength ratio. The problem is, these parts are not always deburred properly from the factory and when pushed to their limits can and do fail.
* Many times additional stress is added to the oil pump by using oil thicker than what is specified by the manufacturer. The oil pump and bearing clearances were not designed from the factory to push oil of higher viscosities. This extra stress on the gears, combined with the above mentioned poor deburring process, can attribute to oil pump failure or engine failure.
* Another contributing factor to oil pump failures is the weak cast backing plate of the B16/B18 oil pumps. Simple inspection shows that when compared to an H22 oil pump, a screw is not present in a critical location of the plate in the B series pumps. Compound this with the use of a higher viscosity motor oil and poorly deburred pump components and you have the ingredients for an oil pump failure.
* This issue, specific to the Mazda 1.6/1.8L engines, involves the flex of the crankshaft and the lower half of the engine due to the additional stress of a forced induction system (such as a turbo or supercharger). The additional stress produced by forced induction causes flexing of both the block and the crankshaft between the front main bearing and the oil pump. This can also contribute to oil pump failure. Early Miatas were notorious for having crankshaft problems and later models suffered from problems as power is increased significantly.
* Lastly, any failure inside a motor, related to aging components or a poor engine rebuild, can cause the oil pump to fail. ANY particles passing through an oil pump design such as that used in the Honda B series engines will cause damage or failure.

Remember that oil pump failures happen regularly on engines using a factory crank pulley. To help combat these failures, a few steps should be taken to help prolong the life of your oil pump and engine:

* Unless building a race motor with race clearances in mind, you should always use an oil viscosity matching, or as close to the factory recommendations as possible.
* If using a factory oil pump, always have your oil pump components deburred properly. It is recommended you have a competent engine rebuilder handle this.
* For those who run dedicated / extreme race vehicles we recommend using an external wet or dry sump oiling system. These systems are designed for the heavy abuse a race engine receives on the track. Remember, the stock oiling systems were designed for factory horsepower levels and can only handle a certain amount of power increase over that level.
* Lastly and most obvious, have a competent, trusted machine or performance shop rebuild your precious motor. It only takes one simple mistake to turn a costly engine rebuild into a doorstop.

If you have any other questions about this subject please don't hesitate to give us a call or drop us an e-mail. We take great pride in the craftsmanship of our products and are constantly striving to provide the highest quality products available to you, our customers.
6) "Will these pulleys cause premature engine bearing wear?"

This is a fear many prospective owners have and is a valid concern since we are dealing directly with the rotating assembly. Fortunately it is another urban myth with no basis in fact. The fact is that our pulleys have the opposite effect on engine bearings. The combination of tight tolerances, quality control, perfect balance, and dramatic weight loss versus the stock pulleys reduces stress loads on your engine, extending the total service life you can expect from your engine. Engine bearing problems are purely associated to poor engine maintenance, use of heavier than factory recommended oils, improper engine building practices (which includes poor balancing), excessively revving engines when they are cold, and owners expecting their factory oil pumps to handle engine power outputs beyond 3, 4, even 5+ times the stock power levels.
7) "Will the pulleys void my factory warrantee?"

Actually the answer is fairly complex but has a simple solution. Automobile manufacturers state if a specific component is not designed by them or an OEM supplier specifically for use on your vehicle from the factory, then the component voids your warrantee. This area has been a hotbed of controversy for years. SEMA has been working feverishly to protect owner’s rights on this issue because many aftermarket products are viable replacements, if not better in design and function, than the factory component.

UNORTHODOX RACING pulleys are one of many products, from air intakes to computer chips to exhaust systems, that fall into this category. The simple truth is that most dealers are looking for any excuse to avoid working on vehicles modified with aftermarket performance parts.

The solution is the MAGNUSON-MOSS WARRANTY IMPROVEMENT ACT, which requires that the dealer or OEM prove that the aftermarket part you have purchased and are using actually caused a failure or problem with the vehicle. So if your dealer gives you a hard time let him know you are aware of your rights and they should back down quickly.

The key is that owners must be aware that these situations can arise and this is clearly stated in the back of their owner’s manual that non-OEM products void the manufacturer warrantee. This, not surprisingly, includes performance parts designed by car manufacturers (i.e. Ford Motorsports, TRD, Mazda Competition and GM Performance to name a few).
 
8) "Are these pulleys hard to install?"

In most cases if you can change your oil or do a tune-up, then you can install one of our crank pulleys. Each one of our pulley/s or sets comes with model-specific instructions that cover everything from jacking up the car to the factory torque specification on the mounting hardware. It is important for you to be aware that although the product seems simple it is critical that it be installed properly. Our instructions are not a replacement for a factory or aftermarket service manual. So if you're not sure go to a professional.

An installation done by a professional mechanic should take no longer than one (1) hour for crank pulleys and under two (2) to three (3) hours for pulleys sets.
9) "Do I have to change my belts when I install the pulley?"

Yes. Belts must be changed with many of our different types of pulleys. When the belt sizes need to be changed it is because the pulleys are either up to 20% smaller or slightly larger than the factory pulleys. The installation instructions we supply with each kit includes the part number/s for the belt/s we have found most consistent for each model of pulley. The belt/s you will need are available from your local auto store. We would appreciate any information on belt sizing for applications that do not include specific belt sizes as it allows us to accumulate additional sizing to compare with other data we have compiled.

We recommend the use of Gates belts. It is important that the belts are slightly over tightened when they are first installed as this accommodates for natural belt stretch. We do not supply the belts with our kits for three reasons. First we refuse to use inferior quality belts like those used by other pulley manufactures. For instance one manufacturer claims they use the factory OEM supplier. The problem is that manufacturers don't always use the highest quality belt because they see belts as a limited life span component that they can save money on. Second, we don't feel that our customers should have to pay NY prices (Long Island has some of the highest pricing in the country) for their belts, as most of you will be able to find the belts for a lower price in your area. Third, if an owner happens to have a rare car that needs a different belt than the ones we have found to work they would have get involved in shipping it back, exchanging the belt, and paying for additional shipping charges. Belt sizing can vary due to the OEM manufacturer's production cycle. This is due to the use of different accessories, different brackets, or a combination of both.
10) "Does the anodized coating wear away?"

The anodizing on our Ultra Series pulleys is purely for visual looks of the product. 6061-T6 aluminum has phenomenal weathering ability that allows it to remain beautiful even in the most severe weather environments. The anodizing will wear away on the belt sections where the belts ride on the pulleys. There is absolutely no cause for alarm.
11) "Can the anodizing cause the belts to slip?"

No. Even without the anodizing, as our Ultra R race pulleys have no anodizing, the belts have the same grip that they do with the stock pulleys.
12) "Is there any long term maintenance required with the pulleys?"

The only maintenance required is to check and replace the accessory belts at the manufacturer's specified intervals. Other than this you basically bolt on the underdrive pulleys and forget about them.
13) "Will my engine RPM's change?"

The pulleys have nothing to do with the transmission and the gear ratios. The pulleys only change the speed of the accessories and nothing else. The transmission and the differential, as well as tire size, control engine RPM at any given speed.
14) "Can I use the underdrive pulleys if I have a high wattage stereo system?"
All of the pulleys allow stereo systems of up to approximately 600 watts RMS. If the stereo system in question is above that wattage amount then the owner has two options. They can purchase our stock or oversize diameter crank pulley or we can make a custom alternator pulley, which will be smaller in diameter and will increase the voltage output.

Capacitors are a smart addition as they store the power the amplifiers need for peak draw. Our stock diameter series used with capacitors allow the vehicle owner to achieve the cleanest and most powerful sound with no loss in voltage output. Another good option would be to install a second battery or batteries just for the stereo.
"Why doesn't Unorthodox Racing make an air conditioning pulley?"

At this time we are not making a/c pulleys because of the clutch mechanism. We are, however, looking into doing them in the near future. Note that the a/c is still driven in a number of our pulley types and kits so there is no need to delete or remove the a/c. Remember, many of our pulley types and sets underdrive the a/c which can pick up a considerable amount of previously lost power.
 
Those UR pulley heard they are damn expensive!!!

I only used the OEM Honda CTR N1 pulley on my last year MME.

The only reason why i used it is because its OEM Honda, timing mark (so still can check my timing) and lighter than stock. But had been advised by my US friends, that it is not so good for engine longevity, cause there is no dampening at all to reduce crank walk in high rev.

How true, I don't know? Any performance gain, I also don't know cause engine was build with it already and never done a before and after.

More pictures to share with you.

CTR pulleys:-
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j178/thtan777/CTRN1pulley.jpg

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j178/thtan777/CTRN1pulley2.jpg
 
question...? y using this pulley got irritating sound "cit..cit..cit.."...? anybody...?
 
question...? y using this pulley got irritating sound "cit..cit..cit.."...? anybody...?

Where got? Usually got sound if the belts are stretched.

No, not mine, this one is a B18C... customer's one. Still unfinished as yet.
Currently my car still under weight reduction programme.. DIY, and done bit by bit.. so slowly lah. Using a wire mesh attachment on a drill helps make it a wee bit faster in removing those bits left, although it does remove a bit of metal as well.. rust spots abound, as expected from a 14 year old car. So busy settling those ATM. :P

So far reached the 3.5kg mark, and that's just the boot area alone.. the undercarriage.. well.. that one is a bit of a problem, and still KIV'ed. In terms of noise, yeah.. there's quite a bit more sound after the removal of the soundproofing.. but of note is the fact that the SGDM EG SR4 models come without the soundproofing in the boot area and the centre console/gearshifter area.. just had the opportunity to see one without the interior.

Just wondering if anyone did a before and after dyno to see how much drivetrain loss we are reducing if using these.

The only reason why i used it is because its OEM Honda, timing mark (so still can check my timing) and lighter than stock. But had been advised by my US friends, that it is not so good for engine longevity, cause there is no dampening at all to reduce crank walk in high rev.

Chris, I think the price currently reasonable alreadylah, since it does come in a set of 3s, and they're machined quite well. The timing marks are present too, and it looks like it was notched at the factory. Anyway.. I don't think the timing mark is really actual TDC due to the fact that the crank keyways aren't really a tight fit (we are using 'used' engines after all). That's why cams are 'recommended to be' degreed in by most cam manufacturer I know of.

Yeah... I've also gotten the 'crank walk' warning already.. but it seems that a couple of guys here running it aren't facing any problem and they've been using it for some time too... I do think a requirement for these parts are that you have the rotating assembly balanced to prevent vibrations though, which is done for those couple of guys that used it.

And if you think these are expensive.. check out FluidDamper.. nearly fell of my chair hearing the quote on that one.. hahaha. Supposedly provides better damping than even the OEM ones.
 
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Hmmm anyone using lightened crank pulleys? Just wondering if it makes a difference in your opinion.. I think the size sort of negates any benefits that can affect drivetrain resistance...

Still for my car which inherently has low hp, I wonder if stuffing these on might help.. :P

URpulley.jpg

Not much,,,plus it will eat your conrod bering in a long run.
 
Not much,,,plus it will eat your conrod bering in a long run.

ya i think so too. Cause in consistent high rev like my dc2, every oil change i do, i actually see metal in my magnetic bolt. :shcokedcamo: But i don't know if they are bearing or else where.

Road cars where less high reving, i see very little metal even after 5000km.
 
I can't feel any effect using lighten crank pulley,,,but when we pay money ,,,we force ourself to beleive it will make power:shades_smile: so it was like "hmm ada power sikit lah"
 
Where got? Usually got sound if the belts are stretched.

No, not mine, this one is a B18C... customer's one. Still unfinished as yet.
Currently my car still under weight reduction programme.. DIY, and done bit by bit.. so slowly lah. Using a wire mesh attachment on a drill helps make it a wee bit faster in removing those bits left, although it does remove a bit of metal as well.. rust spots abound, as expected from a 14 year old car. So busy settling those ATM. :P

So far reached the 3.5kg mark, and that's just the boot area alone.. the undercarriage.. well.. that one is a bit of a problem, and still KIV'ed. In terms of noise, yeah.. there's quite a bit more sound after the removal of the soundproofing.. but of note is the fact that the SGDM EG SR4 models come without the soundproofing in the boot area and the centre console/gearshifter area.. just had the opportunity to see one without the interior.

Just wondering if anyone did a before and after dyno to see how much drivetrain loss we are reducing if using these.



Chris, I think the price currently reasonable alreadylah, since it does come in a set of 3s, and they're machined quite well. The timing marks are present too, and it looks like it was notched at the factory. Anyway.. I don't think the timing mark is really actual TDC due to the fact that the crank keyways aren't really a tight fit (we are using 'used' engines after all). That's why cams are 'recommended to be' degreed in by most cam manufacturer I know of.

Yeah... I've also gotten the 'crank walk' warning already.. but it seems that a couple of guys here running it aren't facing any problem and they've been using it for some time too... I do think a requirement for these parts are that you have the rotating assembly balanced to prevent vibrations though, which is done for those couple of guys that used it.

And if you think these are expensive.. check out FluidDamper.. nearly fell of my chair hearing the quote on that one.. hahaha. Supposedly provides better damping than even the OEM ones.

shiro, is this the block with eagle rods n toda piston? hehe
 
eh.. how did you know?.. never mind... I know you saw it somewhere... :P

I can't feel any effect using lighten crank pulley,,,but when we pay money ,,,we force ourself to beleive it will make power:shades_smile: so it was like "hmm ada power sikit lah"
Hahaha.. true true.. if no one knows, then I'll make a note to do a dyno run with and without when I get to install one on mine... which is.. not so soon.. budget still kantoi-ed for now.. :P
 
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Hav u guys considered Mythelogy... at least got tt harmonic balancer thing....unfortunately they dun hav 4 the B series yet.... a few of my buddies n bro in their 4G93s find it quite ok especially low end performance.... lesser engine stress i guess..

power gain... ok ler.... after fitted in my bro's car.....dynoed gains at whp +1 and tq (dunno in which measurement, i think its Nm) +3.... dynoed in gt....

mine oso crackin up.... so i m oso lookin 4 1...... if some1 initiate Mythelogy to make for the B series.... include me in...
 
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Aiiks! Then wat about other brands in the market that has a harmonic balancer?? Any suggestions??
 
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