HID Brightness Measure In Lumens

[siangmh]

HId Brightness

Given the same color temperature, same input of 35W & also been warmed up already, still different brand HID got different level of brightness.

1) Anybody know why different brighness? Due to what factor?

2) Why ppl dont compare its brightness in specific measuring unit eg. lumen (eg 3000 lumen = 3000 candle light brightness)? Not aware of this?

Bcos usually i see ppl comparing color temperature only, but not many ppl concern about its brightness or bother to know its brightness in measurable units.

Of course testing it on our own vehicle will be the best but there's so many brand out there, testing cant be done extensively (for rich one dont bother lar, he he). Somemore day time + short of shop space = cant/difficult to tell its brightness & distance of light

Color Temperature

1) Why some of the HID uses coloured bulb casing to achieve its color temperature?

Eg 6000K, i saw some HID using blue bulb casing (as those Halogen White Bulb) to achieve white lights, whereas some HID bulb dont need colored bulb casing......

Please share ur knowledge, sifus....

 

[PocketRocket]

colour temperature measured in kelvin eg. 6000(k)

 

[siangmh]

colour temperature measured in kelvin eg. 6000(k)

dont confuse color temperature & brightness (lumens), 9000k doesnt mean brighter than 6000k.

what i try to say is ppl usually dont measure its brightness, only concern about its color temperature, how many k etc.

 

[Slipknot Fanatic]

dont confuse color temperature & brightness (lumens), 9000k doesnt mean brighter than 6000k.

what i try to say is ppl usually dont measure its brightness, only concern about its color temperature, how many k etc.

Good point siangmh. Sometimes I have trouble seeing during heavy rain.

 

[siangmh]

Good point siangmh. Sometimes I have trouble seeing during heavy rain.

Well, apparently yellow daylight color as ori head light color is still d best during rain driving. My Narva 4500k 60W white light halogen now kept in storeroom already, sigh...

I did ask for a 3500k-4300k range of HID fr accs shop nearby but to my dissapointment, their supplier said yellowish color HID like head light color type is not as bright as those of 6000k (white) :sad_smile:

I thought if it come fr same factory same brand using same ballast & same watt, probably same bulb too, except didn't use coloured bulb casing only, then why its not as bright as its 6000k / 8000k counterpart ?

Confusing me :Not_Impressed:

 

[astalavista_baby]

A lot of people are confused because they are misinformed. A lot of people are using the colour temparature as a marketting gimmick. Now, I'll state it very clearly:

The colour temparature is measured in Kelvin(K)
The brightness is measured in lumens
The intensity is measured in Candela

Now, a lot of mechanics suggest a 8000K HID, claiming that it is brighter. Theoritically, they are trying to get you to think that the higher the K, the brighter the HID. WRONG! Kelvin is used to measure colour temparature, NOT brightness.

The 4300K HID which is used in OEM vehicles is slightly yellowish. The 6000K HID produces a brilliant white colour with a slight stinge of blue. The light produced is brilliant white. The 8000K HID is blueish colour. the 10000K HID is greenish blue and the 12000K HID is purpleish. So bear in mind, KELVIN = COLOUR. The colour temparature also in NO WAY indicates how hot the HID is operating at.

Now, some people might ask, then, which HID is brighter? Research and development has shown that the 4300K produces the best light output which is about 3200 lumens. That is why OEM cars utilize the 4300K HIDs. The 6000K HID produces about 2800 lumens of light. As you can see, all factors remaining constant, the higher the colour temparature, the lower the brightness.

There really is only 2 good HID brands out there, namely, Philips and Osram. Hella and Bosch ballasts are not bad as well. The bulbs are basically by Philips or Osram. Philips is the pioneer of the HID technology. The bulbs are produced with state of the art machine and meant for long durability. Some sellers claim to be selling 8000K Philips HID, but that's a FAKE. For your information, Philips HID is only rated up to 5800K which is marketed as the Philips 6000K Ultinon.

Why is it that they don't produce bulbs with higher Kelvin? It defeats the purpose of HIDs because anything higher would require a blue coat filter to achieve the colour effect. By doing that, brightness will be reduced dramatically and we might as well just stay on with the conventional halogen, as there is not much improvement.

As for people who has a 6000K HID coated with blue coating, they probably bought some cheap HID where the manufacturer does not have the technology to produce proper HIDs. By right, 6000K should still be achievable without coating. I myself am using the 6000K HID which is brilliant white and does not require any blue coating.

Another thing to consider is, get a high quality HID bulb as the blubs retrofitted into your headlights must have the same point as your halogens so that the lights will reflect off the reflectors at the same point as the original halogens. Screw this part up and you will get uneven light distribution which oncoming traffic will then consider as glare.

For those who use the Halogen bulbs with HID looks, a.k.a "blue bulbs". NO, THOSE ARE NOT HID. A lot of people are under the impression that those bulbs are HID. So I am going to say it again, those are just normal halogen bulbs which are just coated blue to filter off the yellow spectrum and thereby giving you the whitish blueish effect. Yes, you might get the looks but definitely not the brightness and the intensity.

I hope this post of mine here will help many of you out there in answering you questions and clearing your doubts. I love HID, and I am never going back to halogens. :D Some people might say HID is blinding. The fact is they don't know the benefits of HID and also their perception came from those who were irresponsible enough to not adjust their headlamps to ensure the beam shines the road and NOT oncoming traffic. The same goes to those halogen users who changed their bulbs but screwed up the reflected beam.

Those who have yet to adjust their headlamps, please go out, lower yourself to a seating level and look at your headlights. If you think they are a sore to your eyes, do humanity a favour, please readjust your headlamps. Thank you very much and cheers! :)

 

[siangmh]

Ohhh Yessss baby! Finally got some brialliant input, just lights up my bulb liao haha ha

It is really refreshing having such good point out! Thank a million bro astalavista_baby!!

I really dont know how to say TQ bro :>

However, i still got some doubts in my mind, if u dont mind & have d time, could u help me to clear these doubts also? Thanks in advance!!

1) Intensity (measure in Candela)

~ What does it mean? is it measures how big/bright d light produced when the current jump from one electrod to the other? like measure how big the spark is?
~ Or is it mean how much the unit of current can store before it discharge thru those electrods? Hence more candela = stronger discharge = stronger light?
~ Can give example?

2) No. of Lumens & No. of Candela
~ How would we know the no. of Lumens & no. of candela of different brands HID in d market ? as most of them dont state it.
~ How to compare brightness then?

3) Glare Shield
~ Is this necessary in a good quality HID?
~ Why d glare shield was put underneath the buld instead of putting it above d bulb? wouldn't it be better to put above the bulb?

4) Focus of light
~ Does a good qlty HID will automatically have good focus of light?
~ Or all HID will also scattered its light?
~ Does HID have good cut-off of lights? ie when shoot HID lighting on the wall, can see a very clear division between the area that shined by light & those that not shine by lights.
~ I heard only HID with projector casing like those BMWs can have good focus, else w/o projector casing, will be scattered. Is this true?

5) Adjustment of light / Bulb position
~ I was told by accs shop ppl that wira's bulb position was fixed, what they can do to adjust lighting to shoot lower is adjusting the lamp casing to face lower only.
I was not satisfy with this sort of adjustment while d bulb is also H4 base, same as ori. Is this d right way?

~ What is the right way to adjust the HID lighting, for w/o projector car eg Wira & for those with projector, eg Waja?

6) Cost & Performance
~ I seldom see ppl selling new Philips / Osram HID especially H4 (except those used/ rejected D2S/C/R HID that dunno where they sourced from...) Why? Too expensive?

~ Those rm500-700 China/Taiwan made HID got good ones or not? Any recommendation of these cheap ones?

7) Water Proof Ballast / Wiring
~ Can wash engine bay using jet pump with HID installed?
~ Is it recommended to siliconed sealed all the wire connections & the ballast casing? or cover ballast inside plastic bag?

 

[kelvio]

ok hahaha intresting now i know what my name means hahaha
no wonder i like to measure land at home hehehe

 

[astalavista_baby]

Ohhh Yessss baby! Finally got some brialliant input, just lights up my bulb liao haha ha

It is really refreshing having such good point out! Thank a million bro astalavista_baby!!

I really dont know how to say TQ bro :>

However, i still got some doubts in my mind, if u dont mind & have d time, could u help me to clear these doubts also? Thanks in advance!!

1) Intensity (measure in Candela)

~ What does it mean? is it measures how big/bright d light produced when the current jump from one electrod to the other? like measure how big the spark is?
~ Or is it mean how much the unit of current can store before it discharge thru those electrods? Hence more candela = stronger discharge = stronger light?
~ Can give example?

2) No. of Lumens & No. of Candela
~ How would we know the no. of Lumens & no. of candela of different brands HID in d market ? as most of them dont state it.
~ How to compare brightness then?

3) Glare Shield
~ Is this necessary in a good quality HID?
~ Why d glare shield was put underneath the buld instead of putting it above d bulb? wouldn't it be better to put above the bulb?

4) Focus of light
~ Does a good qlty HID will automatically have good focus of light?
~ Or all HID will also scattered its light?
~ Does HID have good cut-off of lights? ie when shoot HID lighting on the wall, can see a very clear division between the area that shined by light & those that not shine by lights.
~ I heard only HID with projector casing like those BMWs can have good focus, else w/o projector casing, will be scattered. Is this true?

5) Adjustment of light / Bulb position
~ I was told by accs shop ppl that wira's bulb position was fixed, what they can do to adjust lighting to shoot lower is adjusting the lamp casing to face lower only.
I was not satisfy with this sort of adjustment while d bulb is also H4 base, same as ori. Is this d right way?

~ What is the right way to adjust the HID lighting, for w/o projector car eg Wira & for those with projector, eg Waja?

6) Cost & Performance
~ I seldom see ppl selling new Philips / Osram HID especially H4 (except those used/ rejected D2S/C/R HID that dunno where they sourced from...) Why? Too expensive?

~ Those rm500-700 China/Taiwan made HID got good ones or not? Any recommendation of these cheap ones?

7) Water Proof Ballast / Wiring
~ Can wash engine bay using jet pump with HID installed?
~ Is it recommended to siliconed sealed all the wire connections & the ballast casing? or cover ballast inside plastic bag?

No problem, that's what ZTH is for. That's a lot of question you have there, lol. I don't claim myself to know everything but I will try my very best to explain based on what I know. All answers are numbered based on your questions.

1) From what I know, the intensity is not measured by the stronger spark or by the discharge. Basically it is the light that is produced. The more intensed the light is, the higher the candela. 1 candela is t[SIZE=-1]he unit of measure for the intensity of light at the source roughly equal to the amount of light in any direction from the flame of a candle. So the more candela, you do the math. Anyone knowing more, feel free to add in. :D

2) There is no way I know of that you can tell the candela or lumens if they do not state it. The only way is if you have the light measurement machine, that would give you the readings. Puspakom/JPJ have those, I believe. :)

3) If you are talking about the glare shield that comes with H4 bulbs which they locate underneath the bulb, yes it is necessary. This is similar to the mechanism used in the halogens. If you notice, there is a shield under the filamens of a H4 bulb.

The reason it's put underneath is to shine the light upwards into your headlamp reflectors which will then shine the beam to the road. Correct me if I am wrong here.


4) Theoritically, good HID bulbs are manufactured with precise bulb optics and should hence give you an even light beam with minimal glare, if not at all. Poorly manufactured bulbs will suffer from glare as the optic points are slightly off.

Generally, HIDs were intended for projector headlamps or probably reflectors designed with proper cut off point. On reflector headlamps, you don't get precise cut off points. Yes, you can see the distinct line which divides the bright light and the little light above it which some will interpret as glare. It's like the halogens. If people drive behind you, you do not feel the glare but if you stop at a traffic light and look at your car roof top, you'd notice dim lights from other vehicle headlights. Same goes to reflector HIDs, except that it's brighter.

The projectors on the other hand, if manufactured properly would have a perfect cut off line. Then again, it also depends on the HID bulbs. With poor optics engineering, the beam will still go uneven.

5) No idea about this one, but basically, all cars have a fixed bulb position but should have an adjustable headlamp. Headlamps can be adjusted hi/lo as well as left/right. I am pretty sure the Wira has that adjustment as well. It's 2 screws on the headlamp. Do a search in the forum. I am quite sure someone posted a picture before.

Again, whether or not you want to use HIDs with a projector headlamp or not, that all depends on you. Please refer to point number 4.

6) Yes, there are a number of people selling but most do not and yes you're right, a set of Philips HID with modified H4 base will sell anything above RM2K.

Cheap HIDs are available but they generally don't last that long and probably has cheap bulbs. It's all up to you. Another alternative is to get the Aura range of HIDs. They have good reviews and they come from Australia. A set of low beam H4s will set you back about RM1.8K. Read the review by Tom. IT gives you a general idea. Head over to http://www.auraxt.com.au/ for more information.

I don't have any cheap HIDs to recommend as I really wouldn't go for them if I can spend more cash.

7) I am not sure if you can use HIDs with a jet pump. I have never tried but I don't think it should be a problem.

Basically most ballasts nowadays are waterproof and no, you don't put them in plactic bags. It's funny and the ballast might heat up during operation. The wires should have been sealed with rubber and there should be some kinda rubber seal that comes with the HID kit to cover the hole leading to you headlamps to prevent water from going in.


I hope this clarifies your doubts and like I said, I am no expert in this and if there is something wrong, do not hesitate to correct me. Thank you and cheers. :)

[/SIZE]

 

[HidSeller]

the reason why Acc shop telling you higher K = higher lumen, cause higher K sell at higher prices .....

Answer Q2 :
For OEM standard Xenon gas filled bulb. 1w produce 91 lumen (+-15%) and Halogen is 1 w = 21 lumen.

Answer Q3
Glare shield only needed for H4 bulb cause H4 base head lamp with Hi/Lo beam in same reflector. or the reflector can be use for Hi or lo beam. (low cost car).

Answer Q 5 :
Get the proper Xenon bulb and u noneed to make adjustment. 1 mm longer or shorter can make beam totally out.

answer for question number 6 :
Osram don't produce any Conversion kit, what they Manufacture is just D1 and D2 series bulb and D series ballast.
Philips is same like osram but they don't make their own ballast, they using Hella Ballast. the reason why u can find Philips conversion kit cause Asia Sole is in Taiwan, they use philips ballast combine with Taiwan Conversion bulb. (they paid for the brand name).

By the way AURA is china product with rebrand/repacking technology.

OEM Ballast :
http://hid.com.my/forum/viewforum.php?f=5

BTW every Temp (K) is make for purpose.
My car i use 6000k. (cosmetic and vision, white colour and lumen maintance at 2800 +-)
Scuba i use 8000k. (i need longer wave lenght to bright up my vision in water).
Jungle/Out door i use 8000k (same purpose like diving).
Hospital use 14k for X-ray.


Below is my 8000k touch light pic. if i use 4300k or 6000k (shorter wave lenght colour) touch, u can't see the line.

PM i tell u some secret abt the rebrand/repacking kit. :)

 

[HidSeller]

 

[HidSeller]

 

[HidSeller]

Toyota Altis Retrofit":

Toyota Altezza Retrofit :

j



Waja retrofit from H1 projector to D2S projector.

E46 Vs Waja

Toyota Vios retrofit :

 

[siangmh]

Thanks again bro, u r really kind & detailed :_:...... & informative too!

3) .........If you notice, there is a shield under the filamens of a H4 bulb.

I'll check this out when got home :>

4)......Generally, HIDs were intended for projector headlamps.....On reflector headlamps, you don't get precise cut off points......

So, reflector lamp (like wira ori lamp) are not encourage to use HID, right? I hardly see any HID conversion on usual car (eg Wira) reflector lamp can focus its light without glaring ppl, even waja with projector also glare...sad thing....except BMW/Benz ori HID...

I think maybe bcos it takes more effort in adjusting than doing a simple installation, and ppl asking for cheap price as cheap as it can be, so the seller take short cut, compromised by doing a simple installation only, w/o adjusting it!!

Giving lame excuses such as:
~ Day time cannot see properly lah, how to adjust? u see for ur self night time lah...night time i also dont open shop mar...

~ Bulb position is fixed & dont have to change one lah,since ur previous halogen bulb also didn't glare ppl....so the position shld be ngam one lar....

~ Its like that one lah....all our customer used also no complaint mar...

~ Probably ur car got accident before lah, so the light cannot focus lor, not our HID problem lar...

Another point is : could be the product problem, its not easy to find a right HID with the right dimension that suit a car's lamp reflector, that can "reflects" the way as it designed to be....since most of the aftermkt HID are meant for universal car fitting, even different brand on same H4 base on a same reflector lamp also shoot out differently.....:Not_Impressed:


....ballasts nowadays are waterproof and no, you don't put them in plactic bags....

why i say so? bcos i was told by some accs shop ppl !! they show me their "finished product": a used D2R/S HID, dunno sourced fr where?...mod to H4 base but not sturdy as ori H4 base....ugly siliconed sealed on the wire joint to ballast & then use normal plastic bag to wrap it up!! ....pops my eye out...

Then i saw Hid.com link's site as intro by HidSeller (Thanks bro :regular_smile: ), re:retrofit projector, http://www.skafia.com/itr/hid/ :"I cut an old bicycle innertube and wrapped the ballast in that..." So, that skillful man also wrap it up lar, so u say ballast water proof or not.... shakes my confidence lar....

So my conclusion till now is:

1) Must physically fit on & try out at a dark environment, then only can tell that HID suit or not (but then so many brands out there, how to try ar? accs shop ppl also dont like ppl like me to try-see try-see lah....:sad_smile: aih.....

2) If possible, use HID with good qlty projector, avoid reflector...

3) Dont let water contact with ur HID (but how ar? wrapping ar? aih...)(unless got ppl tried jet-sprayed water on it & proved it to last, like what Votech VS seller did....)

4) Dont simply wash engine by car wash centre, too risky (My car kena before, after wash, subsequently a lot of things not right, faulty lar...)

 

[HidSeller]

yah dont let other wash ur engine ..... i kena before and take me two week to make the car back to normal .... kns ...

 

[astalavista_baby]

So, reflector lamp (like wira ori lamp) are not encourage to use HID, right? I hardly see any HID conversion on usual car (eg Wira) reflector lamp can focus its light without glaring ppl, even waja with projector also glare...sad thing....except BMW/Benz ori HID...

Reflectors can still be installed with HIDs, provided you get a high quality bulb with proper and precise optics engineering. Also make sure you use good reflectors. The car's originals are always the way to go. Aftermarket Taiwan reflectors, like China HIDs, are often done with only cosmetics in mind and not beam focus, hence even with a good bulb, your beam will still be messed up. I myself have my HID installed on a Suzuki Swift but with some adjustments of the headlamp, I managed to reduce the glare. I sat on my Perdana, which is a pretty low car and drove in front of my Swift and it was ok, it didn't hurt my eyes. I could even look directly into the HID headlamps!

Waja with proper HID will not be glaring. It's projectors gives pretty sharp cut off as well.

Giving lame excuses such as:
~ Day time cannot see properly lah, how to adjust? u see for ur self night time lah...night time i also dont open shop mar...

~ Bulb position is fixed & dont have to change one lah,since ur previous halogen bulb also didn't glare ppl....so the position shld be ngam one lar....

~ Its like that one lah....all our customer used also no complaint mar...

~ Probably ur car got accident before lah, so the light cannot focus lor, not our HID problem lar...

Yes, these are lame excuses indeed except for the first one. It is true they cannot adjust during the day time unless they have a dark area used specifically for adjustments of headlamps. So you would just have to adjust by yourself.

Another point is : could be the product problem, its not easy to find a right HID with the right dimension that suit a car's lamp reflector, that can "reflects" the way as it designed to be....since most of the aftermkt HID are meant for universal car fitting, even different brand on same H4 base on a same reflector lamp also shoot out differently.....:Not_Impressed:

Yes, most HIDs are universal fitting. In the case of halogens, they have the same base and if the bulbs are manufactured correctly, they should all have the same dimension and point of light. As in the case of HIDs, the same applies, good aftermarket HIDs come with bulbs with precise optics. Some are not manufactured to standard and hence the messed up beam. So, get reputable brands if you have the cash to spend.

why i say so? bcos i was told by some accs shop ppl !! they show me their "finished product": a used D2R/S HID, dunno sourced fr where?...mod to H4 base but not sturdy as ori H4 base....ugly siliconed sealed on the wire joint to ballast & then use normal plastic bag to wrap it up!! ....pops my eye out...

This is really weird, as my China made HID itself doesn't come with all these silicon thingie. It all looks just fine to me.

Then i saw Hid.com link's site as intro by HidSeller (Thanks bro :regular_smile: ), re:retrofit projector, http://www.skafia.com/itr/hid/ :"I cut an old bicycle innertube and wrapped the ballast in that..." So, that skillful man also wrap it up lar, so u say ballast water proof or not.... shakes my confidence lar....

Again, it's up to you. Some ballast claims to be waterproof but are not.

So my conclusion till now is:

1) Must physically fit on & try out at a dark environment, then only can tell that HID suit or not (but then so many brands out there, how to try ar? accs shop ppl also dont like ppl like me to try-see try-see lah....:sad_smile: aih.....

2) If possible, use HID with good qlty projector, avoid reflector...

3) Dont let water contact with ur HID (but how ar? wrapping ar? aih...)(unless got ppl tried jet-sprayed water on it & proved it to last, like what Votech VS seller did....)

4) Dont simply wash engine by car wash centre, too risky (My car kena before, after wash, subsequently a lot of things not right, faulty lar...)

1) Yes you must try. Better if you can find someone or if the accessory shop has some cars fitted with the brand. Ask them to on the HID and have a look to see if it's satisfying. For the sake of car lighting, I do not recommend anything above 6000K. It's more for cosmetics than lighting. Best to go for 4100K but if you must have some cosmetics, give 6000K a try. Brilliant colour, I love it.

2) Yes, use quality projectors with DOT or ECE certification. If you want the purpleish effect from BMW, ECE is the way to go. If you must use reflectors, like me, make sure you go OEM or get a good quality relector with good quality HIDs.

3) Preferably, do not wet the ballast if you can but if you have to, at least make sure your ballast is waterproof like in the case of most parts in your car bonnet.

4) No comment on this one. hehe...

Cheers. :)

 

[magixk]

I am using Imperial Concept HID, 8000k. Cost me about RM1k. It's not as bright as some other better HID but it's still brighter than normal car's lighting and it's fully white, not yellowish/orangey. If you want something very bright, go for those more expensive one...

 

[Slipknot Fanatic]

How much is AURA HID HI-LO?

 

[HidSeller]

Yes, use quality projectors with DOT or ECE certification. If you want the purpleish effect from BMW, ECE is the way to go. If you must use reflectors, like me, make sure you go OEM or get a good quality relector with good quality HIDs.
..

Cheers. :)

by the way not all ece projector produce purple colour and only 5 series and few 3 series (fitted with Valeo head lamp) will produce purple ..... bosch ECE provide wider beam and nice cut off but poor in colour ...

 

[astalavista_baby]

How much is AURA HID HI-LO?

Last I asked, it was about RM2K++ for the normal HI-LO. If you want the double ballast HI-LO which I am personally attracted to, but I do not have the cash for, is more expensive. I don't exactly know the price. :)