american supercar

[si|verfish]

That's not right. I assume people who buy supercars to be big car fans. They know their cars (ignoring the rich posers of course). They love cars. And if they love their cars they'll know the Ford GT is special, it is a great car. It is also limited, which makes it even more special. Those cars are going to fetch a big price in the second hand market.

But I agree that most buyers of this type would plonk their money on the Ferraris and the Lamborghinis of this world. Only some enthusiasts with a lot of love for American cars would appreciate muscle cars. It is all about the drama and the image of such cars.

It is also true that European supercars (make that all cars) are better in many ways. Especially in the area of handling and quality. Which is also a reason why them Corvettes are so cheap (relatively). And they are starting to work out the handling part of it, like I've mentioned earlier. The interior is still cheap plasticky rubbish though. Side note: The Z06 is one scary machine, watch out for it smoking the Europeans out.

Anyway, what the Big 3 fail to do, the rest of the great American people manage to sort out. There are plenty of tuners and small volume manufacturers that produce great replicas of old muscle cars or even new supercars. Especially love the Shelby's they completely reproduce. With great interiors, top aftermarket parts, a lot of snorting wild west horses and of course all that 60's style.

 

[GT3]

That's not right. I assume people who buy supercars to be big car fans. They know their cars (ignoring the rich posers of course). They love cars. And if they love their cars they'll know the Ford GT is special, it is a great car. It is also limited, which makes it even more special. Those cars are going to fetch a big price in the second hand market.

But I agree that most buyers of this type would plonk their money on the Ferraris and the Lamborghinis of this world. Only some enthusiasts with a lot of love for American cars would appreciate muscle cars. It is all about the drama and the image of such cars.

jus say that even most supercars buyer (car fan anot) based their decision on their heart as well as the brain.. rationality plays a big role when u dump a big pile of money for a car.. esp a car where its not proven (american cars) in msia

 

[new22003]

Seems like may have comments on cars they have never owned, driven, or seen in person. You can’t get all your info from Top Gear. It’s a fun show but much of their info is, well, wrong.

"slow revving"
Have you driven a Corvette regular or z06 or a Mustang Cobra. Slow revving is not a term used to describe them. They are fast revving, I think the problem Europeans have is the massive amount of power available just off idle. You just don’t need to rev the car but they will rev easily if you want too. You have more power at 2000 rpms than most cars have at 7000. Even corvettes in the 1960’s with solid cams were very fast revving.

"poor fuel mileage/ gas sucking v8" Again the corvette gets OUTSTANDING fuel mileage. The base 400 horsepower 6.0 liter Corvette gets 28 mpg, the 7.0 liter z06 gets 26 mpg. That’s much better than the 1.3 liter Mazda RX-8, better the 3.5 liter Nissan 350/fairlady. The z06 even gets the same fuel rating as the Honda 2.2 liter s2000 roadster. As a matter of fact it’s the only supercar not to incur a U.S. EPA gas-guzzler penalty.

"poor handling" The C6 corvette took first place in the GT1 class at lemans beating the Aston Martin DB9r Another corvette also took 3rd place. By the way they have won it multiple times with multiple generations of Corvette including the last 3 years in a row. The Corvette also circled the Nurburgring faster than the Porsche gt3, Pagani Zonda, McLaren F1, Jaguar XJ220, Lamborghini Murcielago LP640, Lamborghini Gallardo, Ferrari F430, Ferrari 360 Challenge Stradale, and tons more. Remember this is a car that costs $70,000 U.S.D. Many of the cars it beats cost $200,000+ U.S.D.

“unsophisticated” The corvette has always been at the forefront of sophistication. It had fuel injection in 1957, fully independent suspension in 1963, 4 wheel disc brakes since 1965. The 1984 model with the z51 suspension was the first mass produced car to pull over 1 g on the skidpad. The new Corvette has composite carbon single transverse leaf with unequal length a-arms, balsa wood and aluminum floor, titanium suspension bits, aluminum frame, carbon fiber hood and fenders. The engine is mounted in front the transmission in the back of the car for optimum weight distribution (transmission not attached directly to engine). The engine itself is a modern marvel. Dry sump oil system, hollow valves, titanium connection rods, etc. The engines in Corvettes also respond extremely well to modifications.

Here’s a fifth gear video on the z06. They tend to be better journalists than the people at top gear.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9bByWD4Oxs

Corvette running to 190+mph (305+ KPH) He starts accelerating at around 15 seconds in the video, in 15 more seconds hes at 140 mph, by 40 seconds he’s at 190 mph.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6EiNFiLhV0

"quality" now the quality issue is just a joke when comparing supercars. Yeah your average chevy isnt as reliable as a honda but a Corvette is MUCH MUCH more relibale than a ferrari or lambo. There is a reason a ferrari is considered high mileage at 20,000 miles, there are tons of corvettes that run trouble free for 150,000 miles.

 

[infernaL]

new22003 : add best fast car of the year too by Fifth Gear based on the points covered in your post .

http://www.automotoportal.com/article/corvette-z06-named-best-fast-car-of-the-year-by-fifth-gear

 

[si|verfish]

new22003; you seem to think everyone here get all their information off Top Gear...lol.

On the "myths" that you tried to dispel, might I add that there is no smoke without fire.

I'm not one to argue that the Z06 (or the new Corvette for that matter) is a bad car. I think its a great car but lets not get carried away.

Anyway, I think you are trying to address the possibly false perception people have with American cars or performance cars instead of just the Vette right? So, I'll reply with this in mind.

"slow revving"
I think people who say this are speaking generally and relatively. I haven't read one review from Europeans who said this about the Z06 however. European and Japanese performance engines tend to be rev happy and need to be revved to bits to be enjoyed. American engines have a lot more grunt low down and don't need to be revved hard to get going. They are also generally more laidback in nature in a lazy, rumbling sort of way.

"poor fuel mileage gas guzzlers"
Yes the smallblock in the Vette is a remarkable engine. How bout the rest? How bout the Mustang's V8? There's a reason why people get the impression that big American engines are gas guzzlers.

"poor handling"
The new Vette is indeed a good handling car, as has been reported by many European mags, even Top Gear. Again, how bout the rest? How bout pevious Vettes? The new Vette can't be the only performance car out of America after all these years? How many good handling production cars came out of America? GM only started bringing their products to the Nurburgring not too long ago. Tells you something, doesn't it?

"unsophisticated"
Again, relatively speaking, compared to the rolling computers and technofest that is recent European and Japanese efforts, the Corvette may be seen as unsophisticated.

"quality"
This is about quality instead of reliability right? The Corvette might be built properly but it is also built to a price (that's why its cheap). Therefore it comes across looking like a bargain basement kind of thing.

 

[si|verfish]

new22003 : add best fast car of the year too by Fifth Gear based on the points covered in your post .

http://www.automotoportal.com/article/corvette-z06-named-best-fast-car-of-the-year-by-fifth-gear

I was quite happy about this because purely as a performance car, the Z06 really is a fantastic option.

 

[new22003]

new22003; you seem to think everyone here get all their information off Top Gear...lol.

Well you are getting you info second hand that much is obvious. I have personally been in these cars. You may try it, or at least not get all your info from european magazines. Seems like a lot of people who have never even seen a Z06 in person think they have "informed opinions". Its likely they havent even seen or sat in the car they are comparing it to.

new22003
"poor fuel mileage gas guzzlers"
Yes the smallblock in the Vette is a remarkable engine. How bout the rest? How bout the Mustang's V8? There's a reason why people get the impression that big American engines are gas guzzlers.

Again even the mustang GT which is a heavier and less aerodynamic car gets better fuel mileage than the mazda RX-8, the same as the 350z/fairlady, and just 1 mpg gallon less than the honda s2000. So that reasoning is out the window. A Bigger engine does not mean poor fuel economy. (Mustang GT is epa rated at 25 mpg). The Corvette has been getting over 20 mpg since the 80's, has Ferrari EVER made a car that got that kind of mileage.

Also for comparison sake the new 3 ton, aerodynamic as a brick wall, 5.3 v8 Chevrolet Tahoe SUV gets 22 mpg. The 4.7 liter v8 toyota landcruiser only gets a dismal 17 mpg. The 4.2 liter V8 Volkswagen Touareg gets 18 mpg, even the 3.2 liter v6 Touareg only gets 20 mpg. The tahoe has more horsepower and torque AND better fuel economy than a japanese or german vehicle of equal size. The chrysler 300 with the 5.7 hemi v8 gets 25 mpg as well. This equals the fuel economy of the smaller and less powerful Lexus 4.3 v8 GS 430.

new22003
"poor handling"
The new Vette is indeed a good handling car, as has been reported by many European mags, even Top Gear. Again, how bout the rest? How bout pevious Vettes? The new Vette can't be the only performance car out of America after all these years? How many good handling production cars came out of America? GM only started bringing their products to the Nurburgring not too long ago. Tells you something, doesn't it?

Again the vette has WON lemans even before the c6 generation. As I stated above the 1984 was the first mass produced car to pull over 1 g lateral in stock form. It has had fully independent suspension since 1963 something VERY few manufacturers had.

As far as testing at Nurburgring. Thats one of those things people who bench race (never get behiond the wheel) tout as mattering. You realize several tracks including Road Atlanta are set up just like Nurburgring right? There are actually better tracks to test at as well but now they have to do it because every bench racer on the net thinks Nurburgring matters. Its funny because 99.9% of them have never driven on it or any other track yet they think you have to test there. Ask yourself why you think Nurburgring matters so much? Its not because you have driven on it, its because you were told it matters.

By the way the new Mustang has been blowing the doors off the new Porsche 997 and BMW M3 on the track as well. (Grand-Am Cup)

The Cadillac CTSV and Viper beats porsches and many others makes in the SCCA speed world challenge.

I could go into those records but it would take too long

new22003
"unsophisticated"
Again, relatively speaking, compared to the rolling computers and technofest that is recent European and Japanese efforts, the Corvette may be seen as unsophisticated.

People that mistake electronics for sophistication scare me. I would much rather have my sophistication come from the actual suspension engineering and construction of the car than electronic add-ons. Also the vette has more than its share of electronic gadgets on top of real engineering sophistication. For example active suspension, LTP warning sensors in each wheel, electronic adjustable ride control, heads up display, g meter.

new22003
"quality"
This is about quality instead of reliability right? The Corvette might be built properly but it is also built to a price (that's why it’s cheap). Therefore it comes across looking like a bargain basement kind of thing.

The reason people always complain is that it makes them feel bad about the car they idolize/own (Ferrari, lambo, Aston) and they have to have some reason why the car isn’t good enough.

They compare the Corvette to a car costing 4 times as much and the best they can come up with is that the interior isn’t as nice? Funny they don’t complain Ferrari gives you less of just about everything else for 4 times the money. The corvette beats the Ferrari 430 in just about every category (reliability, price, handling, track time, horsepower, torque, and fuel economy).

The Corvette interior isn’t as plush as a Bently but it’s not a Hyundai either. You have leather, navigation, and great Bose sound system. It’s certainly better than any other below $75,000, 505 horsepower supercar. The reason the corvette get compared to these cars is that the Europeans or Japanese, or the rest of the world cant make anything to touch it in the price range or even in a price range 3 times as much.

By the way the new 600+ horsepower, even lighter, even better handling, "Blue Devil" z06 will be coming out in 2008 so ferrari has even more to worry about.

 

[si|verfish]

Well you are getting you info second hand that much is obvious. I have personally been in these cars. You may try it, or at least not get all your info from european magazines. Seems like a lot of people who have never even seen a Z06 in person think they have "informed opinions". Its likely they havent even seen or sat in the car they are comparing it to.

And I make no bones about it. I would love to have the privilege to drive these cars but I don't, not many do. I'm glad you did. Still, yours is still an opinion, just like all the others.

Again even the mustang GT which is a heavier and less aerodynamic car gets better fuel mileage than the mazda RX-8, the same as the 350z/fairlady, and just 1 mpg gallon less than the honda s2000. So that reasoning is out the window. A Bigger engine does not mean poor fuel economy. (Mustang GT is epa rated at 25 mpg). The Corvette has been getting over 20 mpg since the 80's, has Ferrari EVER made a car that got that kind of mileage.

Also for comparison sake the new 3 ton, aerodynamic as a brick wall, 5.3 v8 Chevrolet Tahoe SUV gets 22 mpg. The 4.7 liter v8 toyota landcruiser only gets a dismal 17 mpg. The 4.2 liter V8 Volkswagen Touareg gets 18 mpg, even the 3.2 liter v6 Touareg only gets 20 mpg. The tahoe has more horsepower and torque AND better fuel economy than a japanese or german vehicle of equal size. The chrysler 300 with the 5.7 hemi v8 gets 25 mpg as well. This equals the fuel economy of the smaller and less powerful Lexus 4.3 v8 GS 430.

Noted.

Again the vette has WON lemans even before the c6 generation. As I stated above the 1984 was the first mass produced car to pull over 1 g lateral in stock form. It has had fully independent suspension since 1963 something VERY few manufacturers had.

By the way the new Mustang has been blowing the doors off the new Porsche 997 and BMW M3 on the track as well. (Grand-Am Cup)

The Cadillac CTSV and Viper beats porsches and many others makes in the SCCA speed world challenge.

I could go into those records but it would take too long

Again noted. But pardon this bench racers ignorance. These are race cars which means they are modified. Also in racing, grip and downforce are more crucial than poise or balance or feedback.

As far as testing at Nurburgring. Thats one of those things people who bench race (never get behiond the wheel) tout as mattering. You realize several tracks including Road Atlanta are set up just like Nurburgring right? There are actually better tracks to test at as well but now they have to do it because every bench racer on the net thinks Nurburgring matters. Its funny because 99.9% of them have never driven on it or any other track yet they think you have to test there. Ask yourself why you think Nurburgring matters so much? Its not because you have driven on it, its because you were told it matters.

And aren't you also trying to tell me and others as well (albeit something else)? Also, I suppose you have driven on it and decided thereoff? BTW, why then is the new C6 based Vettes touted as the first proper handling Vettes (yes, by Europeans so you may or may not agree)?

People that mistake electronics for sophistication scare me. I would much rather have my sophistication come from the actual suspension engineering and construction of the car than electronic add-ons. Also the vette has more than its share of electronic gadgets on top of real engineering sophistication. For example active suspension, LTP warning sensors in each wheel, electronic adjustable ride control, heads up display, g meter.

A sorry case I suppose, but that's the way people think, mostly.

Why complain about it or even bring it up then? You don’t compare a proton to a Mercedes right? If you did a Proton couldn’t beat a Mercedes in any category. The reason people always complain is that it makes them feel bad about the car they idolize/own (Ferrari, lambo, Aston) and they have to have some reason why the car isn’t good enough.

They compare the Corvette to a car costing 4 times as much and the best they can come up with is that the interior isn’t as nice? Funny they don’t complain Ferrari gives you less of just about everything else for 4 times the money. The corvette beats the Ferrari 430 in just about every category (reliability, price, handling, track time, horsepower, torque, and fuel economy).

The Corvette interior isn’t as plush as a Bently but it’s not a Hyundai either. You have leather, navigation, and great Bose sound system. It’s certainly better than any other below $75,000, 505 horsepower supercar. The reason the corvette get compared to these cars is that the Europeans or Japanese, or the rest of the world cant make anything to touch it in the price range or even in a price range 3 times as much.

Why not? If the Vette is the best sports car out of America then it needs to be compared to the best elsewhere. They do tell you the massive price difference no? If I read a review about a Rolls Royce, I expect to be told about how posh the interior is despite knowing the pricetag and despite expecting it to be good. It is a matter of saying what you think. If it is posh, you say it is posh. If its cheap and plasticky, you say its cheap and plasticky. So far, the general impression I get from them "biased" Europeans is that the Vette is indeed a great car and a bargain, for them. They've not really been unfair to it.

BTW, I'm not one of those you describe as needing to belittle the Vette to make some other car look good. I actually like the Vette a lot. But the interior needs work. And the ride too, but then I should try it first, shouldn't I?

By the way the new 600+ horsepower, even lighter, even better handling, "Blue Devil" z06 will be coming out in 2008 so ferrari has even more to worry about.

Sounds fantastic.

 

[ronk]

The Corvette is good value for the money. American muscle cars tend to go for bigger displacement pushrod engines while European/Japanese use overhead cams. American cars are often considered dated because pushrod engines are still widely used in American muscle cars. But the LS2 of the Corvette and the LS 7 of the Z06 Corvette are very refined pushrods.

I did think of getting a Pontiac GTO with the LS2 (same engine as base Corvette) but the GTO does not have stability control and side/curtain airbags. With 400bhp and limited safety features, I will be road kill in an accident. Maybe when the price is cheap enough, I might change cars. It is not a top seller and leftover 06 models should be under US$27,000 soon.