4g93T gsr engine rebuild, need advice

[mojoloon]

Can... Then u weld a stainless steel pipe for the wastegate... Then the burnt fluxes from the welding rods that is not being able to be removed before thinstallation came off when boosting n flow into the turbine fin n next thing u find is the fins got flatten by the fluxes n leftover welds during the welding process.

There are ways to install a wasgate explained n discussed in the wastegate explained thread... Pls read
http://www.zerotohundred.com/newfor...ydraulic-lifters-for-4g93t-7.html#post4307413

but but,... the customized exhaust manifold doesn't mean that welding won't fly off, right? Somemore it look longer, which same as contribute to turbo lag?

---------- Post added at 08:39 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 08:38 PM ----------

hi all sifu, wanna ask. is the turbine for d 4G93T auto differance from the manual? or just the same? thanks alot for d answer. ;)

AS I know of, 4g93t-RS is twin blade while normal 4g93t is single blade.. Might be wrong info..

---------- Post added at 08:40 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 08:39 PM ----------

now got ready made turbo header with wastegate flange very cheap and very good quality bro

but ready made mostly very nipis compare to original one...

---------- Post added at 08:41 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 08:40 PM ----------

Oh shit!!! >.<"'

thanks for correcting... I was replying with phone with a 3/4 slept mind and 1/2 slept eyes...

Sorry everyone...

this I the right link:-
http://www.zerotohundred.com/newforums/tech-forced-induction/255450-wastegate-explained.html

OMG... I was reading from page 1-7... Now i read this... faint.. I read about this article before, the next question that I asked is.. how big is big turbo, how small is consider as small boost? Sorry I'm kind of digit person.. hardly can stand an open statement..

 

[speed2horizon]

but but,... the customized exhaust manifold doesn't mean that welding won't fly off, right? Somemore it look longer, which same as contribute to turbo lag?

---------- Post added at 08:39 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 08:38 PM ----------



AS I know of, 4g93t-RS is twin blade while normal 4g93t is single blade.. Might be wrong info..

---------- Post added at 08:40 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 08:39 PM ----------



but ready made mostly very nipis compare to original one...

---------- Post added at 08:41 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 08:40 PM ----------




OMG... I was reading from page 1-7... Now i read this... faint.. I read about this article before, the next question that I asked is.. how big is big turbo, how small is consider as small boost? Sorry I'm kind of digit person.. hardly can stand an open statement..

Sorry for the mistake on the wastega thread...

Ok, first answer to your question...

The answer is NO. What I was trying to say is... Whe arc welding, there'll be fluxes that are not cleanable... However, the fluxes will fall off due to the extreme pressure and temperature within the manifold.. When, tubular manifold, those are TIG/ARGON welded. And the melting temperature of stainless steel is 1200ºC. Which will never be ur exhaust temperature...

Long runners also means lag... Yes.. But when u have a well designed with less restriction and all equivalent length runners, there are less turbulence and chances of exhaust from runner 1-4 goes into 2-3. A well designed manifold would create a siphonic effect on the flowing exhaust. Reduced back pressure....

My wastegate is on my manifold too... But I customize a flange and drill a hole on the manifold. Have the welding done along outline of the flange instead of having a pipe welded on the manifold.There's no exposed welding inside the manifold. So, no chances of welding byproduct(fluxes and loose welding) fall into the turbine and harm the fin.

Ok, back to the wastegate question. When u have higher boost, u'll need a smaller wastegate. Anything > 10psi or 70kPa is considered high boost. But most of our ppl on Malaysia will take 38mm even for low boost. THis is due to the price. But afterall, not so much effect on the road...

BIG or small turbo depends much relative to the engine. a TD04L is considered a small turbo for a an engine >1.8L capacity but it's consider big for kancil... It depends on the entire set up to justify wether the turbo is big or small relative to the engine capacity... It;s very hard to justify in numbers sometimes.... For example... How many bowl of rice eat each meal is consider alot. Some ppl takes 3 bowl also say ngam ngam aje,,, Some girls thinks 3 spoon is alot...

Hope my example shows u some rough idea on big and small turbo...

---------- Post added at 11:27 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 11:22 PM ----------

BTW... Even if u get branded tubular manifold from oversea with 3mm thickness Sch 20 stainless steel steampipe, it;s stilll prone to cracks on the welding joins... It's due to the high temperature flow and the force caused by the weight of the turbo...

A very well
known problem.

 

[mojoloon]

Hi
WHat is reground crank?

 

[speed2horizon]

Hi
WHat is reground crank?

Damanged/scratched crankshaft is sent for regrind to repair. After regriding, it's called a reground crankshaft. Have to use oversize bearings.

Example, the crankshaft mount scratched, then will sent for regrind... After regrind, the crank diameter will reduce. But the crank mount on the engine block are same as before, so... Will need to use a correct bearing size for the reground crankshaft.

 

[mojoloon]

Damanged/scratched crankshaft is sent for regrind to repair. After regriding, it's called a reground crankshaft. Have to use oversize bearings.

Example, the crankshaft mount scratched, then will sent for regrind... After regrind, the crank diameter will reduce. But the crank mount on the engine block are same as before, so... Will need to use a correct bearing size for the reground crankshaft.

But I was reading this article at OZ forum.. It seem crank reground can improve performance... I was :o ..

---------- Post added 06-06-2010 at 04:35 AM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was 06-05-2010 at 11:35 PM ----------

Is there and con for getting a used cam?

b18c acura integra gsr manifold that I need to get or b18c, b16?

 

[mushtaqtera]

hi..wanna ask some questions to all sifu here...im planning to play 1.8 - 2 bar..
below is the spec..is it ok?

1- conrod b8 210 or b6t n piston supercharge 81.5mm..pin no need modify right? heard if use b8 210 conrod, no need to skim the supercharge piston..is it true?

2- or i use forged conrod with normal gsr turbo piston but with new piston rings. can normal piston gsr handle 1.8-2 bar as long as the fuel is enough? using haltech e6x.

3- acl racing bearing

4- normal gsr piston is cr 8.5.. 1.5mm metal gasket is enough? or thicker to lower the cr?

5- arp stud


thanks..

 

[rakesh_v6]

wow.............

 

[Qaramil]

take pic la...more easy maaa...

 

[speed2horizon]

hi..wanna ask some questions to all sifu here...im planning to play 1.8 - 2 bar..
below is the spec..is it ok?

1- conrod b8 210 or b6t n piston supercharge 81.5mm..pin no need modify right? heard if use b8 210 conrod, no need to skim the supercharge piston..is it true?

2- or i use forged conrod with normal gsr turbo piston but with new piston rings. can normal piston gsr handle 1.8-2 bar as long as the fuel is enough? using haltech e6x.

The problem is not on the piston, the problem is onn the crank and block. The skirt of the piston will colide with the crank.

If you choose not to skim the piston, u can cut the side of the skirt and maintain the skirt in order to sustain a longer overall piston length and stronger piston wall.

It works for 4G92. Not sure if it works for 4G93. Cause I saw most od the 4G93 users with 4AGZE piston cuts the skirt flat. It's either they wanna save cost or it really cannot pass the crank.

Regarding the connecting rod, u must also plan what bearing to use when u mod the B8 conrod to fit into a 4G93 crank. U must also find out the connecting rod length difference compare to the 4G93. Every single mm of shortness will result dramatic CR drop.

That is also why ppl uses CA18 connecting rod for high boost application. It's not the connecting rod that is stronger. It's because it's a few mm shorter than the 4G93's that result a very low compression ratio for high boost application.

On the management, I don't think the GSR stock pistons can handle that kind of Force Induced Pressure unless U use a shorter connecting rod to result ultra low compression ratio like VR4. Around 7.8:1 CR.

U also need to know if your snail is going to be blowing within the effective flowrate and pressure ratio region. No point boosting 3 bars with a TD04L on a 4G93T that will choke when the pressure reaches 1.3 bars.

I've known of a 4G93T GTI personally boosting 1.7 bars on stock internals and cams achieving 290WHP. But that powerplant runs with methanol injection as auxilary when high boost and independant coils.

Also with on E6X

Just like one of the taikoz said, it's not the boost that kill your engine, it's the detonation. If you can avoid lean AFR(causes high cylinder temperature) and pre mature detonation, things should go well.

3- acl racing bearing

4- normal gsr piston is cr 8.5.. 1.5mm metal gasket is enough? or thicker to lower the cr?

5- arp stud


thanks..

When calculation is concern, a 1.5mm metal on an unskimmed cylinder head will only allow u to achieve CR 8.3:1 considering your stock cylinder head gasket of 1mm. If 1.8mm, U'll roughly achieve CR 8.03:1

Stronger studs are necessary when u boost high.

Bearings are optional. But something good to have.

BTW, mind me asking... Why do you need to boost so high..? IMHO, I'd personally set a targetted WHP in my mind before I consider what modification to be done. There are choices u can make. The calculate the cost involve and consider wether it worth the money spent.

Just some add in. For the engine U like, one can spend unlimited cost to achieve the WHP he wanted. *IF EVERYTHING GOES FINE...*

LAST BUT NOT LEAST, HAPPY MODDING AND ENJOY YOUR RIDE OF LOVE...
GOOD LUCK

 

[zamiex]

i think he's building a drag car..

 

[speed2horizon]

i think he's building a drag car..

If so, go for all forgies with Standalone EMS with EVO 1 GSR hybrid gearbox with full time LSD gearbox... If the car is not meant for endorsement, then might as well go for 4G63T instead. Dun waste time for something not designed for race.

I know this is going to offend alot of ppl, but that's the fact. 4G63T is a race designed engine and it has so far served the purpose of most racer and also recorded to be the fastest 4 bangers of all time.

 

[ehdrian]

If so, go for all forgies with Standalone EMS with EVO 1 GSR hybrid gearbox with full time LSD gearbox... If the car is not meant for endorsement, then might as well go for 4G63T instead. Dun waste time for something not designed for race.

I know this is going to offend alot of ppl, but that's the fact. 4G63T is a race designed engine and it has so far served the purpose of most racer and also recorded to be the fastest 4 bangers of all time.

dat's so true!..63t has much potential compare to 93t...

 

[mojoloon]

actually bigger itnercooler and better radiator will help?

 

[speed2horizon]

[/COLOR]

dat's so true!..63t has much potential compare to 93t...

For Satria as in my car. I'd say yes for DRAG.... But a NO for circuit run and street performance. It's not easy to handle for a tailess car.

I'd enjoy something around 220WHP-250WHP. Good enough for me.

actually bigger itnercooler and better radiator will help?

Help in what..?

 

[mojoloon]

in term of performance??? I think if increase of whp, should upgrade to a bigger intercooler and and a better radiator.. correct me if im wrong..

 

[speed2horizon]

in term of performance??? I think if increase of whp, should upgrade to a bigger intercooler and and a better radiator.. correct me if im wrong..

Yes.... U are not wrong...
But there are other factors to be consider. Bigger intercooler allows more flow and bigger heat transfer surface. BUT, it also increases the volume from ur compressor to the TB. More volume requires more time to pressurized. LAGZZZZZ.....

And Of course, the pressure is also able to sustain better.

Better radiator..? U mean the aluminum..? Hmm... something nice to have... Hehe... But not necessary until u achieve the 300HP benchmark. Lower than that..? Stock Satria 1.6 automatic radiator is good enough. The Fans plays a more important role...

 

[mojoloon]

errmmm... i did read about this article that bigger intercooler will take around 0.28ms to fill it, which to them is lag... Another question come into my mind. Does this ms is important to me? SInce Im not building a race car, just building a fun car.. The next question is "isn't once you start the car, the air started flowing.. Isn't enough time for the air to be filled? couldn't be start the car then tekan minyak and pecut like no tomor... OH... ada lag..." and then u see your car sticking to house gate.... My point is, we are driving few distance before we able to pecut.. Isn
t that time good enough to fill the air density in the intercooler??

 

[zamiex]

yes... thats true 63t have more potential than 93t.. but ive also seen 93t stock with just upgrade turbo achieving 300hp+ on dyno dynamics with only 1.2bar of boost... of course with standalone ems
so.. if u have the money and 93t only to play ... then go for it :)

 

[speed2horizon]

errmmm... i did read about this article that bigger intercooler will take around 0.28ms to fill it, which to them is lag... Another question come into my mind. Does this ms is important to me? SInce Im not building a race car, just building a fun car.. The next question is "isn't once you start the car, the air started flowing.. Isn't enough time for the air to be filled? couldn't be start the car then tekan minyak and pecut like no tomor... OH... ada lag..." and then u see your car sticking to house gate.... My point is, we are driving few distance before we able to pecut.. Isn
t that time good enough to fill the air density in the intercooler??

When it comes to how much does bigger intercooler cause the lag, it doesn't only determined by the word BIGGER or SMALLER intercooler result 28ms. It needs to consider the turbo compressor flow rate and the total volume of the intercooler and the piping. Just like comparing a pearl jelly drink straw(Big) and a kfc straw(medium) and a vitagen straw(Smal). When u blow it, u'll notice the big straw is hard to get pressurize but the small straw will pressurized even when the other end is left open. IF we're comparing with the same person blowing with the same speed and same lung and same mouth(Same engine capacity, compressor size and same turbine)

Compression lag is notiecable... but not significant. However, the compression lag can be overcome with a shorter intercooler piping.

Ok, this is what happen. The compressor requires a certain flow(cfm) to be effective for compression. Example, let say supercharger. There's compressor/centrifugal type(looks like turbo compressor) and the twin screw type. The centriifugal/compressor type, though start spinning the moment engine started... But the lag is still noticeable when when compared to the root type and twin screw.

Anyway... like said as long as u're able to accept the lag... it's certainly ok to use a bigger intercooler... No problem at all...

 

[mojoloon]

speed, just for discussion and not arguing.

I do get your picture. You see the scenario is like this.. You have pearl straw (biggest intercooler) and vitagen straw (smallest intercooler). You and me (having the same engine) sitting next to each other, u choose vitagen straw and I choose pearl straw.. COunt to 3 then start blowing.. "Definately a good blow job will do the job well".. For sure you will win since you have the small straw to get more bubbles up or air into water.. But in real scenario is not like that, as I start my car, I dont pecut.. The air is flowing filling in regular... It is like I'm blowing air to the straw but not strong enough to create a bubble.. then when I pecut (count to 3) my air into the water will be more than u..

Another thing, i was thinking.. the best design for piping not only shortest, but should be small to bigger where biggest next to TB. This will create a air pressure. Another thing did crossed my mind.. put in the small fan into the pipe.. so practically pulling air from the intercooler to TB fast enough.. hahaha.. just an idea..