Brake upgrade, Lancer CS3A

[jay_lancer]

Hi

Since my Lancer Engine swap I feel I should do a brake upgrade.

I am lucky that my lancer already has fairly good brakes, with rear disks but I now have about 60% more BHP.

On the back I think I can just put upgraded brake pads but I would like to go bigger on the front.

Current standard set up is 276 MM vented as per here:

I am running 16 inch wheels (which I would like to keep), although the stock wheels were 15 inch, there is still not much clearance on the stock single piston brake calipers:

I take it if I went for different calipers such as 4 pots (maybe from a skyline R32) or 2 pots (maybe from a FTO or Spacewagon, would I have more clearance?

Has anyone done a similar upgrade and what did you do?

cheers

 

[6UE5t]

If you used 4 pots, you'd probably have smaller clearance but still ok as long as there is still clearance.

 

[sanekit]

why not just get a twin pot caliper from an evo instead of going 4 pots?

 

[jay_lancer]

why not just get a twin pot caliper from an evo instead of going 4 pots?

Hi, Which model EVO use twin pot calipers? most EVO calipers I see use Brembo 4 pots but expensive,

Sounds like that would be a good compromise do you know the brake rotor size for this set up?

cheers

 

[6UE5t]

why not just get a twin pot caliper from an evo instead of going 4 pots?

Hi, Which model EVO use twin pot calipers? most EVO calipers I see use Brembo 4 pots but expensive,

Sounds like that would be a good compromise do you know the brake rotor size for this set up?

cheers

Yes agree, should be enough just using 2 pot calipers from Evo I-III. But of course if can afford 4 pot and can fit then no harm either.

 

[jay_lancer]

Yes agree, should be enough just using 2 pot calipers from Evo I-III. But of course if can afford 4 pot and can fit then no harm either.

Thanks for the reply, will look at the front brake set up used on the Evo 3, do you know the size of the brake disk rotors and the PCD of the wheel studs they use?

My car uses 114.3 PCD with 4 wheel studs, the later Evo's 4 onward have the same PCD but 5 studs as far as I know. Expecting to have to go to a shop to get caliper mountings adapters made, and possibly re drill the rotor holes if I have to, but the less fabricating the better.

I have read the Nissan Skyline r32 gtr uses 296mm rotors as stock and runs 16 inch wheels as stock so I should I guess I should be able to upgrade close to this size for the rotors depending on how much more room the calipers need, my current stock single pot ones do seem to take up a lot of extra clearance as per the pics I posted.

cheers

 

[sanekit]

Hi, Which model EVO use twin pot calipers? most EVO calipers I see use Brembo 4 pots but expensive,

Sounds like that would be a good compromise do you know the brake rotor size for this set up?

cheers

Evo 1-3. I think evo 4 also use 2 pot. Rotor should clear nicely on your 16"

 

[sanekit]

Thanks for the reply, will look at the front brake set up used on the Evo 3, do you know the size of the brake disk rotors and the PCD of the wheel studs they use?

My car uses 114.3 PCD with 4 wheel studs, the later Evo's 4 onward have the same PCD but 5 studs as far as I know. Expecting to have to go to a shop to get caliper mountings adapters made, and possibly re drill the rotor holes if I have to, but the less fabricating the better.

I have read the Nissan Skyline r32 gtr uses 296mm rotors as stock and runs 16 inch wheels as stock so I should I guess I should be able to upgrade close to this size for the rotors depending on how much more room the calipers need, my current stock single pot ones do seem to take up a lot of extra clearance as per the pics I posted.

cheers

4x114.3 pcd

 

[6UE5t]

Thanks for the reply, will look at the front brake set up used on the Evo 3, do you know the size of the brake disk rotors and the PCD of the wheel studs they use?

My car uses 114.3 PCD with 4 wheel studs, the later Evo's 4 onward have the same PCD but 5 studs as far as I know. Expecting to have to go to a shop to get caliper mountings adapters made, and possibly re drill the rotor holes if I have to, but the less fabricating the better.

I have read the Nissan Skyline r32 gtr uses 296mm rotors as stock and runs 16 inch wheels as stock so I should I guess I should be able to upgrade close to this size for the rotors depending on how much more room the calipers need, my current stock single pot ones do seem to take up a lot of extra clearance as per the pics I posted.

cheers

Street version of Evo I-III were using 4x114.3 PCD. If R32 then 5x114.3.

 

[vr2turbo]

Twin ports should do, but get better pads. Also try getting those that can plug and play rather then need to mod further, less headache.....lol
My VR are twin ports, pads same as Pajero V6, probably same as in Evo 1 to 3 also....

 

[jay_lancer]

Twin ports should do, but get better pads. Also try getting those that can plug and play rather then need to mod further, less headache.....lol
My VR are twin ports, pads same as Pajero V6, probably same as in Evo 1 to 3 also....

Thanks for all the feedback so far.

I will get performance pads all round, and look at getting twin pot calapers

Do you think there is much advantage in getting upgraded rotors like the drilled or grooved ones for road use?

cheers

 

[6UE5t]

Thanks for all the feedback so far.

I will get performance pads all round, and look at getting twin pot calapers

Do you think there is much advantage in getting upgraded rotors like the drilled or grooved ones for road use?

cheers

You can groove them but do not drill! Coz drilling actually does not do anything to improve your braking but actually makes your rotors more prone to cracking.

Other things that will further improve your braking are:
- change your brake hose to stainless steel braided ones. This will firm up your pedal feel a bit more as it reduces the flexing/bulging of the brake hose when under pressure.
- use DOT 5.1 brake fluid (do not mistaken with DOT 5 ya, that's not compatible!). Can use Bendix 5.1, much cheaper than Motul 5.1. This will reduce the risk of fading on hard driving as the fluid can withstand higher operating temp.

 

[vr2turbo]

Thanks for all the feedback so far.

I will get performance pads all round, and look at getting twin pot calapers

Do you think there is much advantage in getting upgraded rotors like the drilled or grooved ones for road use?

cheers

Performance pads for street will do, don't get racing pads, those that are real high temperature ones, as for street use you don't need that high. Most high temperature pads needs warming up and do not bite when cold. Of course if you can find high temperature pads that bites when cold then get them but should be costly......lol

 

[samngcheesan]

i got a direct plug n play wilwood 4pot, call me if u interested , will clear 16"

call 012-3200032

 

[marsha1l_v6]

Twin ports should do, but get better pads. Also try getting those that can plug and play rather then need to mod further, less headache.....lol
My VR are twin ports, pads same as Pajero V6, probably same as in Evo 1 to 3 also....

pajero v6 is slightly bigger then evo 3..consider it as oversize brake kit..but twin pot...using at your lancer should be better..lancer lighter than pajero..

Thanks for all the feedback so far.

I will get performance pads all round, and look at getting twin pot calapers

Do you think there is much advantage in getting upgraded rotors like the drilled or grooved ones for road use?

cheers

better groove then drill..

You can groove them but do not drill! Coz drilling actually does not do anything to improve your braking but actually makes your rotors more prone to cracking.

Other things that will further improve your braking are:
- change your brake hose to stainless steel braided ones. This will firm up your pedal feel a bit more as it reduces the flexing/bulging of the brake hose when under pressure.
- use DOT 5.1 brake fluid (do not mistaken with DOT 5 ya, that's not compatible!). Can use Bendix 5.1, much cheaper than Motul 5.1. This will reduce the risk of fading on hard driving as the fluid can withstand higher operating temp.

this..dont just upgrade the caliper and rotor only...but most important is good tyre set, no matter how good your brake are..thats the only part of your car contact with the road..

unless turn turtle, diff story

 

[6UE5t]

...this..dont just upgrade the caliper and rotor only...but most important is good tyre set, no matter how good your brake are..thats the only part of your car contact with the road..

unless turn turtle, diff story

Yup of course, tires is always important, it's the most important!

 

[Izso]

Current standard set up is 276 MM vented as per here:

I take it if I went for different calipers such as 4 pots (maybe from a skyline R32) or 2 pots (maybe from a FTO or Spacewagon, would I have more clearance?

Has anyone done a similar upgrade and what did you do?

cheers

I've had experience with the R32 Skyline 4-pot. It's not a problem to fit a 16" rim, the problem is your offset. 40 offset won't clear it. I used a 5mm spacer to give it some breathing space (too damn close if you ask me) on a 17" rim.

Personally I wouldn't go to the R32 route because the oil reservoir inside this caliper is large, it'll affect your braking pedal feel, probably will drop a significant amount. I ended up not using it on my Sylphy because it was hard to modulate the pedal feel and it kinda gave me on-off brakes. I was using stock Nissan Sylphy servo. Unless you plan to swap out your servo as well? Master cylinder / Brake pump / whatever you call it.

 

[jay_lancer]

I've had experience with the R32 Skyline 4-pot. It's not a problem to fit a 16" rim, the problem is your offset. 40 offset won't clear it. I used a 5mm spacer to give it some breathing space (too damn close if you ask me) on a 17" rim.

Personally I wouldn't go to the R32 route because the oil reservoir inside this caliper is large, it'll affect your braking pedal feel, probably will drop a significant amount. I ended up not using it on my Sylphy because it was hard to modulate the pedal feel and it kinda gave me on-off brakes. I was using stock Nissan Sylphy servo. Unless you plan to swap out your servo as well? Master cylinder / Brake pump / whatever you call it.

Thanks for the feedback, there are a few guys in Thailand running the R32 skyline 4-pot setup, but I have no desire to change my master cylinder, especially because the hydraulic's on my car are linked to the clutch operation also so messing with this could create more issues. I think many just do it to get the 4 pot look on a budget.

I am looking to improve performance and feel (over looks), so thanks to your advise I will forget this idea.

Will probably look at costing out the different Mitsu 2 pot set ups, unless I can find a really good deal on aftermarket or Evo 5+ brembo 4 pots. (@samngcheesan I will PM you nearer the time I am ready to move forward, I am in Thailand but visit KL sometimes)

4 pots might be overkill for what I need though, I guess I am running now about 160 BHP +/- so less that an Evo 3/4 with similar weight. Even if I boost or mod my 4G92 Mivec more I won't be looking for big power much more, the concept of my car is to make it a fun car to drive within the limits of the roads in Thailand, not a power monster (if I had wanted that I would have saved a little more and swapped to a 4G63 Turbo).

New tires and up-rated brake hoses are also on my agenda for this year as well as up-rated hydraulic fluid and up-rated brake pads all round. Used EBC pads in the past in the UK, can anyone recommend what is a good up-rated performance road brake pad popular in Asia?

cheers

 

[6UE5t]

... Used EBC pads in the past in the UK, can anyone recommend what is a good up-rated performance road brake pad popular in Asia?

cheers

I have been using Project Mu Type NS (400 deg) and now B-Spec (550 deg) and pretty happy with them especially the later one. Other popular option is Endless but I've never tried it, similar price range as Project Mu. But if you can still get EBC for your car then that should be very good too.

 

[Izso]

4 pots might be overkill for what I need though, I guess I am running now about 160 BHP +/- so less that an Evo 3/4 with similar weight. Even if I boost or mod my 4G92 Mivec more I won't be looking for big power much more, the concept of my car is to make it a fun car to drive within the limits of the roads in Thailand, not a power monster (if I had wanted that I would have saved a little more and swapped to a 4G63 Turbo).

New tires and up-rated brake hoses are also on my agenda for this year as well as up-rated hydraulic fluid and up-rated brake pads all round. Used EBC pads in the past in the UK, can anyone recommend what is a good up-rated performance road brake pad popular in Asia?

cheers

There's no such thing as overkill for brakes. Unless you're looking at 6-pot or 10-pot calipers, then yeah. But if the car weight justifies the brakes, then it's not overkill bro. My paltry Nissan Sylphy barely had 130hp on wheel and it was CVT auto. I initially used the R32 4-pots and it helped my braking a lot. Just that the pedals were too low and that bothered me a lot. I eventually swapped to AP Racing R 5000 calipers, ultra lightweight, small oil reservoir inside the caliper, staggered pistons (2 big 2 small pistons) meaning the braking was very easily modulated, it made the car so easy to drive. It even poisoned the new owner of my ex-car but I wasn't willing to part with the brakes yet. Keeping it for future use. If your car is heavy, 4-pot upgrades are a good idea regardless of power.

Steel braided hoses will improve brake pedal feel. Good fluids will help but probably won't be obvious unless you're a heavy footer/track goer. I cooked my DOT4 Bosch brake fluid sometime ago in my earlier ex-car and had to stop the car by the side of the road to get back my brakes (it totally sunk the pedal all the way in). After swapping to better fluids and DOT5.1, I didn't have anymore boiling issues.

If you can afford EBC, you can't go wrong with EBC. Otherwise there's Ultrex and lots of good pad brands you can go with. Ferodo racing NOT RECOMMENDED though. Dry (regardless cold or hot) grip awesome, once it's wet there's almost no grip. Ferodo Zero is nice though but aren't performance pads.