Anyone going for the July 9 Bersih Rally?
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There is a restaurant in a town and that is the only restaurant so everyone has to eat their meals there everyday. The boss of the restaurant know this is the only place for the resident so he started to serve shitty food and charging more and more. The residents become very unhappy, and they keep telling each other they will go somewhere else someday and make this restaurant out of business so the boss will change. But day after day, the residents continue to come back and pay the ever raising food price for the more and more shitty food. They hope someone will make the boss change, but not themself because they still wanna have their meal in this only restaurant and they scare to offend the boss or their seats will be taken away by other.
Oneday, a few residents finally think they cant tolerate anymore so they decided to confront to the boss together in the restaurant. The boss know about this and warn that they should not complain anything in the restaurant because it is not right. In the end, few guys really confront to the boss together but they were beaten and chase away by the boss. Some other residents who did not join the argue complain that these guys are affecting the atmosphere of the restaurant and there should be other more peaceful way to make the boss aware on what he is doing. So they decided to keep quiet but order less food to show their anger......so it can be peaceful and still showing they are unhappy about the restaurant service without making the boss angry.
That restaurant is call msia, their neighbouring town thailand restaurant just change a new boss last month because their customer group together and chase the previous boss out. The opposite town spore just changed their old chief 2 months ago because their customer complain that their old chief try to force them to eat something they dont like.
msia is a very peaceful restaurant because everyone will not do something which the boss say they cannot do inside the restaurant so they continue to serve the food as good as shit but charging more with order below minimum billing amount. So the resident of this msia restaurant has a new idea, they will really eat shit inside the restaurant to show the boss that they are unhappy with the food.
Oneday, a few residents finally think they cant tolerate anymore so they decided to confront to the boss together in the restaurant. The boss know about this and warn that they should not complain anything in the restaurant because it is not right. In the end, few guys really confront to the boss together but they were beaten and chase away by the boss. Some other residents who did not join the argue complain that these guys are affecting the atmosphere of the restaurant and there should be other more peaceful way to make the boss aware on what he is doing. So they decided to keep quiet but order less food to show their anger......so it can be peaceful and still showing they are unhappy about the restaurant service without making the boss angry.
That restaurant is call msia, their neighbouring town thailand restaurant just change a new boss last month because their customer group together and chase the previous boss out. The opposite town spore just changed their old chief 2 months ago because their customer complain that their old chief try to force them to eat something they dont like.
msia is a very peaceful restaurant because everyone will not do something which the boss say they cannot do inside the restaurant so they continue to serve the food as good as shit but charging more with order below minimum billing amount. So the resident of this msia restaurant has a new idea, they will really eat shit inside the restaurant to show the boss that they are unhappy with the food.
- Mar 3, 2005
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But police also have the responsibility to make sure the person under his/her custody is safe. If they found the detainee suffering or almost dying. They must call for medical help and try to revive him/her. For me, I have to say that a police must change his/her role according to situation during duty. I don't watch HK movie but I was in a mexican restaurant in LA when a police chase happen in front of the restaurant...I saw the police trying to apprehend a criminal and that guy fall down hard on the pavement face 1st and he was bleeding from his forehead...The police cuff him and ask him if he's ok then another officer radio in for a paramedic on the scene as the guy was bleeding quite badly...after the medic patch him up only then the police send him to the station.....This is what I saw in real life....
so I don't trust movies....
1. Does freedom of 10k or above volume of people more important than 1 non involved personnel safety?
2. If situation lost control, does the gov need to pay the bill and take the blame? If not, who will pay the bill and take the responsibility and how?
If freedom is above everything, why we need law? The existence of the permit system is to make sure if anything goes wrong, the damage can be reduce to the minimum at the shortest time. That including organize various parties like polis, hospital, traffic related dept, fire dept, emergency respond team and etc. Each of them will send a rep and have a meeting, open the map, discuss and make the final decision. If Bersih announce only 10-20 people demo, I guess it will be a lot easier. But what amount they told the world?
Does Bersih respect anyone who do business at that area or even care about the safety of any pass by innocent?
I support their demands. But I'll not blindly support anything they dish out on the table. Let's say the rally had successfully breach the police barrier and reach Stadium Merdeka, does it mean that they win and the election committee must do according to the demands immediately? It is not a rugby match that can straight go to the stage and take the prize. Does sending a memorandum need to be so desperate until like what had happen?
Till date, they still cannot answer me why cannot delay the date a bit, change location, obtain a permit and do a proper demonstration as per what they announce earlier on. Why not just contact them and ask then put the answer here? Let everyone to justify if their move is a must or there is an agenda behind.
---------- Post added at 10:41 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 10:19 PM ----------
2. If situation lost control, does the gov need to pay the bill and take the blame? If not, who will pay the bill and take the responsibility and how?
If freedom is above everything, why we need law? The existence of the permit system is to make sure if anything goes wrong, the damage can be reduce to the minimum at the shortest time. That including organize various parties like polis, hospital, traffic related dept, fire dept, emergency respond team and etc. Each of them will send a rep and have a meeting, open the map, discuss and make the final decision. If Bersih announce only 10-20 people demo, I guess it will be a lot easier. But what amount they told the world?
Does Bersih respect anyone who do business at that area or even care about the safety of any pass by innocent?
I support their demands. But I'll not blindly support anything they dish out on the table. Let's say the rally had successfully breach the police barrier and reach Stadium Merdeka, does it mean that they win and the election committee must do according to the demands immediately? It is not a rugby match that can straight go to the stage and take the prize. Does sending a memorandum need to be so desperate until like what had happen?
Till date, they still cannot answer me why cannot delay the date a bit, change location, obtain a permit and do a proper demonstration as per what they announce earlier on. Why not just contact them and ask then put the answer here? Let everyone to justify if their move is a must or there is an agenda behind.
---------- Post added at 10:41 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 10:19 PM ----------
10-20 per group of polis equipped with stick facing uncountable heads. Honestly, I'm glad I'm not one of the police. If equip with gatling gun then maybe ok.
Change boss maybe good, although he is 3 headed. You never know if you never try. I heard about bumi from east Malaysia are complaining about those indonesia and philipino people can get blue IC very easy and they are not happy with it. In a case, when a person went and check the name list, surprisingly he found he had extra 40+ family members don't know come from where. But regardless how, Bersih's demand is 100% neutral thing and I really support it. It should be above politics. It should be not sided any party. But what happen? Same to us, we should be stand at the neutral side. Both BN and opposition are just a party that we assign as our manager with 4-5 years contract. Anyone has the rights to support any of them or even don't support at all. If they do it right, support. If they do it wrong, voice out. No point to protect them with thick armor just because of personal interest or even sugar coating whatever they did regardless right or wrong, just to influence others to materialize your wish.
- Dec 13, 2006
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that is not the guy who passed away. the guy you saw in the video was another guy who had a seizure. :wavey:
- Dec 13, 2006
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wow, didn't know u so big shot that others must reply to you...
perhaps if you can answer them WHY they cannot exercise their right that was promised by the Federal Constitution, before you demand them to reply to you on changing/postponing/apply permit? :rolleyes:
btw, hav u read the Federal Constitution before?
---------- Post added at 08:51 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 08:48 PM ----------
not sure as i was at Maybank, about 200m away. i only knew about this when i saw the video.
the guy who passed away was near KLCC, not sure of the full story also.
- Dec 13, 2006
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yeah, since the police car only came 25 minutes later, there could be permanent brain damage :(
It may sound bad but if I'm the police, I'll not even open my mouth to respond anything. Just focus on what had been assigned. If I too busybody, somehow me or the medic become a hostage, then the price need to pay may be own or innocent life or even worst. Too many possibilities and uncertainties in a battle. Who can guaranty no 4th party standby for an opportunity to create extra issues for political gain?
The whole police force no doubt will be blamed. People will instinctly side the weaker party. But regardless how, their responsibility at that moment was to control the situation. You cannot sue them or do anything. But if there is a permit, then different story. The police which is the permit issuer has to take full responsibility. Even if you fall down and not receive medical attendance within reasonable time, you can complaint or even sue them. They have to apologize or even pay you compensation. That is why do things legal is very important.
---------- Post added at 01:26 AM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 12:14 AM ----------
It was not a bait. Technically they never cheat people. Due to the time is short and things too complicated, they just forgot to tell something as TDM also occasionally do. And people just simply completed the puzzle by their own. They never urge people to fight against police, but people just unable to control their emotion and did it.
Above will be the answer if put the leaders in the court.
Again, if there was no rally, nothing will be happen. Even 4th party also has no chance to do anything bad. If they get a permit and do a successful demonstration as per everyone wish, then they will lose a chance to hit BN, cuz Najib already open mouth and promise a stadium, so credit will goes to him. Of cause, I don't know if Bersih still neutral. But no doubt the the rally was under the Bersih flag. They have the responsibility for everything.
It is not that my mouth is bad, but if you wanna join illegal rally, please think deeply. Bait or not bait is not important. You should care about those person you love or those are/will depends on you in order to live, eg children, parents and etc. There are many way to fight. But before you make the decision, you must 1st finish your responsibility. If you wanna have 2nd round, go ask insurance company whether you are covered if attend an illegal rally. This is a very serious matter. That's why I suggested earlier on for using alternative way to voice out. Now I think it is even better, if stop all rally or demo, everyone send letter or post card, write there I demand for bla bla bla, to The Agong or PM or even newspaper (CNN too?) once a week until the election regulation changed. 1 month cost less than a pack of cigarette or a cup of cappuccino. I believe the pressure is far greater than a memorandum. If floating all minister facebook acc with the 8 demands, it should be cost almost nothing. They have to do something if wanna grab back their 'cyber territory'
I strongly against any illegal rally or demo. Foreign moon doesn't mean have to be rounder. We don't do it in their way doesn't mean we are not cool or not advance enough. We should show them we are more civilized. We should show them our maths is better.
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Politics is a very complicated game. But it seldom achieve much without clear direction and taking side. Strong democratic country are having a few significance:
1. people takes side which represent their supporting direction - call it left or right wing or even extremist....US has democratic, republicans. Thailand has taksin and millitary backed party. Myammar has millitary govt and the peaceful lady...etc. IF people are not taking side , its hard to get their thought to win over the other side. You need a political party to win over the other, so that you get the chance to push the country to go for the direction you supported. If you just want to make silence complain and hope someone to make things happen, the chances are as high as winning a lottery. Not much politicians will listen to people who cant influent his power.
2. people upgrade their actions until the impact is shown - freedom is not free and it comes with price. Thailand people show their anger, singapore people also started to show their unhappiness against mr lee. Not to forget korea, japan....people get to keep on upgrading to until their opinion makes impact to the govt.Its good if we can just use really peaceful mean and make the ruling men regret about what they are doing and accept our opinion....but it seldom happen. So things will keep on evolving until the impact seen.
One common problem with asian, particularly in developed countries are, the people owning properties, jobs, cars and having comfortable living. So when they got screwed, they tend to take it and tolerate because they afraid their properties lost value, jobs got halted, cars got burnt, their kids cannot go to school and their wives cannot buy more LVs....it is not a shame, just we have more burden which our traditional thinking keep us tolerate more for shits.So we see high corruption and extreme suppression of ruling style in asia where ruler can rule the country for decades without problem.People just tolerate it for personal reason and even try to stop other to make noise. We have more people to care on their own rather than the future of their kids.
I am not saying what happened is right, but it is a reflex actions on what the people response to the shitty ruling party. 10 years ago people already shown their anger over the corruption, 10 years later they made the corruption worse.
Frankly speaking, i dont think things will be better because we dont have strong direction among the rakyat. Big nose party is still the strongest party because they have strong financial benefit to tied their supporter towards the same direction. But for opposition party....some just want to make complain and let things go by itself, some just want to change the boss but dont give a damn with what the boss should do, some just want to bash the datos who got their money.....too many wishes but not the same direction.
Before the country have clear sides with direction, msia will still remain in current chaos...going nowhere but with a lot of noises around. Politic is 1 side winning over another sides, no in between, no neutral. Big nose party will still win, but with less votes if people dont have a united direction and support it with full force.
- Sep 17, 2008
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Sometimes I do wonder if you actually know what you are trying to say or just shooting around at point blank bro.
Is not that they did not try to get a stadium for the rally, but it was some scumbag who gave broken promises to us on the offer of using a stadium. End up talking cock live on TV and show no pity on those people who got hurt in the rally. Watch this video and judge for yourself.
YouTube - What najib is trying to say?‏
2ndly, U actually think police officers should be equipped with a Gatling Gun against citizens? Do u suggest that the police should even have sniper teams on standby at higher ground as well? Maybe come in with Tanks and Humvee. Since these BERSIH People who were there for a peaceful demo are SO DANGEROUS without even armed with any weapons but just a yellow T-shirt on them.
3rdly, you are saying the police did the right thing just to stand there and watch when the guy collapsed and do nothing about it? And they are not supposed to help because they were not assigned to help any of the BERSIH people but were only assigned to get the situation under control? If they help, they might end up being hostage to BERSIH people? What are Malaysians to you? Barbarians? The citizens were not the one who is using violence but the Police are the ones. Please do watch the video carefully.
Police Officers are freaking humans la they are not robots without brains, and is also their job to help those in need and not just stand there and look.
I'm not saying what you said is all totally nonsense but certain things is really just not logic at all.
Bersih was a eye opener for many who couldn't care less about politics.
I suspect more ppl will start to register to be counted as voter......
Especially the Facebook\i Phone Generation.....
Just check ur FB and you surely see yellow somewhere in the newsfeed.....
I suspect more ppl will start to register to be counted as voter......
Especially the Facebook\i Phone Generation.....
Just check ur FB and you surely see yellow somewhere in the newsfeed.....
- Mar 3, 2005
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I'm quite puzzled actually. I'm not siding any party or any political party. When they police say."The rally will cause trouble and affect business, traffic jam this and that disrupted..Then I wonder won't those Le Tour De Langkawi, new year count down or those 10~15KM marathon give the same effect...since those event also need to close off roads for hours, causes traffic jams, business effected...etc...Why give permit since they also bring the same effect to the people not participating...
Just imagine if the police discuss with the organizer, set up a route for the rally (a fixed route) to the destination..Just like Marathon or Le Tour De Langkawi also got a fixed route...then just control the traffic and close off certain roads for the marchers and let the people march towards their destination then after that let them finish their business in their destination...then the rally would be over very quickly...Since we can see the effects of not allowing street rally which always turn out ugly. Why not for once try to give them a green light and see how it goes? Never try, never know right?
Just imagine if the police discuss with the organizer, set up a route for the rally (a fixed route) to the destination..Just like Marathon or Le Tour De Langkawi also got a fixed route...then just control the traffic and close off certain roads for the marchers and let the people march towards their destination then after that let them finish their business in their destination...then the rally would be over very quickly...Since we can see the effects of not allowing street rally which always turn out ugly. Why not for once try to give them a green light and see how it goes? Never try, never know right?
yes...agree with that....the imbalance of act...especially with something that could put the career of ppl in control above in jeopardy....
well life is like tyre..once up must go down....but guess malaysia tyre rolling quite slowly..no urge to get it rotate in proper direction...
very simple, just gave them what they had requested, rally inside Stadium Merdeka, then set time, 2 - 2.30pm, finish in peace. no need to close roads, shut down business, no one sacrifice their life, no tear gas (may be no FRU)........
To bad, some old fasion ppl from the G oppose the earlier suggestion....
To bad, some old fasion ppl from the G oppose the earlier suggestion....
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