Saga LMST engine issues and chassis issue

Tory97 · Dec 31, 2017

Greetings. I'm owning a Saga LMST 1.3 Manual 2004 full spec and been using for about 12yrs+. The problem is, this car started to have high fuel consumption, it had been top overhauled but after a year problem comes back.

Engine is 4G13P running carburetor of course, no modification done on the engine. Traced back to about 5 years ago, the engine started to become unstable during morning cold start (which I believe some of my fren said is normal problem due to ageing). Not really is "unstable" but just the rpm is very low between 400 to 600 RPM, and normally after some padding on gas for about 3 minutes then become more ok.

This car had been sent to many different mechanics to clean and tune the carb, and they said they "tweaked" the carb node or sth (idk), but so far I just know that there are two thing I can adjust which are the idling one and the one that when the A/C compressor is running. Alright, so idk when, I notice that after those mechanics tune lah or whatever, the RPM gets low when A/C and headlamps are running. About 5 yrs ago my dad dunno when he go and add the fake HKS brand ground cable, and at the beginning the circuit become stable and the engine RPM doesn't lower too much when A/C and headlamp running but after few months of use the problem comes back. So here is my first question for all the beloved sifus here: Is this related to circuit issue? And what can I do?

I've planned to do full overhaul on this engine and here is my second request for sifu's valuable suggestions: Do anyone know any good place (specific shop or garage) to fix this engine? (I don't mind running across states, yay) What are the procedures and changes normally do sifus take during full overhaul? Any issue need to aware of and take notice? For the engine, I don't mind to up cc, so third question: If I plan to up cc, what precaution should I take to not mess up the engine?

Saga LMST, you know loh...squeeking sound of the car on uneven surface or lubang come out of nowhere, this car changed suspension on all four but it help nothing at all. The mechanic said he changed for me the brand KYB, all four in total cost around 200+ without workmanship, so here is my fourth question: I don't know whether the KYB I got is ciplak one or what? Where I can get a good pair of suspension on all four for comfort ride (I don't corner hard...just families hehe) So I need some suggestions here...

Until here I put up my question...I really need someone to give me some guide on this car (cuz I love my kereta kebal). Thankyou :biggrin:

RENESIS VIII · Dec 31, 2017

Did you try adjusting your ignition timing from distributor? Because a simple adjustment of that can really change the characteristics of how your engine will behave. Recently my mechanic adjusted my Saga's ignition timing and the car felt much more powerful and even the RPM climbs up smoother. Previously, power is lacking and when the RPM is going up, it is not going in a stuttering way instead of smooth.

Tory97 · Dec 31, 2017

RENESIS VIII said:
Did you try adjusting your ignition timing from distributor? Because a simple adjustment of that can really change the characteristics of how your engine will behave. Recently my mechanic adjusted my Saga's ignition timing and the car felt much more powerful and even the RPM climbs up smoother. Previously, power is lacking and when the RPM is going up, it is not going in a stuttering way instead of smooth.

Hi, thank you for replying.

Yes, some of the mechanics they did adjust the timing from the distributor by losing up the screws on the side and do some knocking to adjust the angle, and I did experience some good increase in throttle response.

Before the adjustment was made, the metal rattling/knocking sound that commonly heard from a saga was not so strong and obvious, but after the adjustment, suddenly it come out strongly when pedal harder on the gas, so in the end I asked the mechanic to adjust back to initial position and the sound gone. I really wonder where the rattling sound come from??

Cheers.

RENESIS VIII · Jan 1, 2018

Tory97 said:
Hi, thank you for replying.

Yes, some of the mechanics they did adjust the timing from the distributor by losing up the screws on the side and do some knocking to adjust the angle, and I did experience some good increase in throttle response.

Before the adjustment was made, the metal rattling/knocking sound that commonly heard from a saga was not so strong and obvious, but after the adjustment, suddenly it come out strongly when pedal harder on the gas, so in the end I asked the mechanic to adjust back to initial position and the sound gone. I really wonder where the rattling sound come from??

Cheers.

Strange enough, I did experience similar kind of sound in my Saga but it only happens when I rev it to about 5000rpm. Not a loud sound and it din't last for long either. Just at one certain point across the RPM range. Otherwise, everything is smooth.

Tory97 · Jan 1, 2018

RENESIS VIII said:
Strange enough, I did experience similar kind of sound in my Saga but it only happens when I rev it to about 5000rpm. Not a loud sound and it din't last for long either. Just at one certain point across the RPM range. Otherwise, everything is smooth.

Okay..I see. Does full overhaul helps all these sorts of problem? Or I need to replace the distributor? Anything that I can try out myself?

Cheers.

RENESIS VIII · Jan 1, 2018

Tory97 said:
Okay..I see. Does full overhaul helps all these sorts of problem? Or I need to replace the distributor? Anything that I can try out myself?

Cheers.

Not too sure but I don't think it required a major work like overhaul. If the distributor is working well, don't have to replace it as it is not cheap for an original unit.

gunnerzz · Jan 2, 2018

Tory97 said:
Okay..I see. Does full overhaul helps all these sorts of problem? Or I need to replace the distributor? Anything that I can try out myself?

Cheers.

carb is very robust and reliable.U just need to change the air filter and if u have time,use carb cleaner.
Most of rough idling,hard starting,etc problem that we thought to have come from the carb are not caused by the carb.

There are lots of vacuum hoses and one way valve,pressure activated valve running in/out of the carb.if some of it leak of worn out, it will causes lots of problem. Not sure how your carb works but for aircond there will be a vacuum which trigger more fuel+air into the engine.Turning the aircond screw alone wont help if the vacuum actutor is not working.

Some carb have a vacuum hose from carb to distributor which allow for ignition advance/retard based on throttle input. With this type of carb and dist,the input vacuum hose to the dist must be removed and clamped before adjusting the ignition timing.

Grounding cable will gives signifant improvement esp for old vehicle but wont solve the problem.u can feel better engine response,easier start up,better lighting.

What i suggest is to get all the vacuum hoses,valve inspected and replaced if any.Then get it tuned properly with a tuner that uses timing light and exhaust reader.

Personally i wont go for overhaul if i know i have looked after the engine very well all these while.Depending on the mileage,the most i will do is just top overhaul.

Sorry for the long reply,i am free today..heheh

Tory97 · Jan 8, 2018

gunnerzz said:
carb is very robust and reliable.U just need to change the air filter and if u have time,use carb cleaner.
Most of rough idling,hard starting,etc problem that we thought to have come from the carb are not caused by the carb.

There are lots of vacuum hoses and one way valve,pressure activated valve running in/out of the carb.if some of it leak of worn out, it will causes lots of problem. Not sure how your carb works but for aircond there will be a vacuum which trigger more fuel+air into the engine.Turning the aircond screw alone wont help if the vacuum actutor is not working.

Some carb have a vacuum hose from carb to distributor which allow for ignition advance/retard based on throttle input. With this type of carb and dist,the input vacuum hose to the dist must be removed and clamped before adjusting the ignition timing.

Grounding cable will gives signifant improvement esp for old vehicle but wont solve the problem.u can feel better engine response,easier start up,better lighting.

What i suggest is to get all the vacuum hoses,valve inspected and replaced if any.Then get it tuned properly with a tuner that uses timing light and exhaust reader.

Personally i wont go for overhaul if i know i have looked after the engine very well all these while.Depending on the mileage,the most i will do is just top overhaul.

Sorry for the long reply,i am free today..heheh

Hi gunnerzz, thank you for replying, it's my pleasure to receive valuable suggestions!

I see...recently I thought the vacuum hoses are not having any potential issue to be, thanks for reminding me! My carb was replaced by a reconditioned one (as the local sifu said), and I think that the sifu use back the old ones. After the changing of the carb I did feel that throttle response is great, but the morning cold start problem continues, so I might take your suggestion in action.

<a href="https://ibb.co/d8dyCR"><img src="https://thumb.ibb.co/d8dyCR/IMG_4436.jpg" alt="IMG 4436" border="0" /></a> <a href="https://ibb.co/gVZumm"><img src="https://thumb.ibb.co/gVZumm/IMG_4437.jpg" alt="IMG 4437" border="0" /></a>

There is one more thing also, I really wonder about the metal rattling sound that I used to discuss with RENESIS VIII. When the carb was changed, the sifu was tuning it, and he took off the whole air filter assembly and tune (including driving out and test), and the metal rattling sound went out freaking loud all the way from 1.5k rpm to 4k rpm, after some time of tuning with the distributor (with the assembly placed back) then ok already. So I would like to ask for your idea or comment on this rattling sound matter.

As for the valve issue, there is a sound coming from the hoses but not sure is from which one. The sound is similar to electric zapping or diaphragm tapping rapidly, usually during low rpm for example when the car start moving, it came out at that certain range of rpm. Local sifus do not have any idea about that, strange.

Cheers.

alcyon · Jan 10, 2018

Tory97 said:
Hi, thank you for replying.

Yes, some of the mechanics they did adjust the timing from the distributor by losing up the screws on the side and do some knocking to adjust the angle, and I did experience some good increase in throttle response.

Before the adjustment was made, the metal rattling/knocking sound that commonly heard from a saga was not so strong and obvious, but after the adjustment, suddenly it come out strongly when pedal harder on the gas, so in the end I asked the mechanic to adjust back to initial position and the sound gone. I really wonder where the rattling sound come from??

Cheers.

timing is too advanced, need to retard back, towards engine firewall. Even a 1 degree change makes a difference.
As for squeaking sound, that is the nature of low cost family car. The saga chassis is very flexible, so when the chassis flexes, all your plastic trim starts to move and rub each other. Another major source of squeaking is the front passenger seat, you will hear more squeak if no one is sitting on it. There are many metal spring hooks inside the seat which move and rub each other, causing the annoying squeaks. Lastly, the seatbelt buckle also rubs against the sides of the front seats.
Its the nature of this car, nothing much can be done.

lsm1991 · Jan 15, 2018

alcyon said:
timing is too advanced, need to retard back, towards engine firewall. Even a 1 degree change makes a difference.
As for squeaking sound, that is the nature of low cost family car. The saga chassis is very flexible, so when the chassis flexes, all your plastic trim starts to move and rub each other. Another major source of squeaking is the front passenger seat, you will hear more squeak if no one is sitting on it. There are many metal spring hooks inside the seat which move and rub each other, causing the annoying squeaks. Lastly, the seatbelt buckle also rubs against the sides of the front seats.
Its the nature of this car, nothing much can be done.

also, back passenger seats.... (at least on my lmst)
just shove some extra cloth by the rear seat lock/mount mechanism, solved on the spot

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Saga LMST engine issues and chassis issue

Tory97

Junior Member

RENESIS VIII

7,000 RPM

Tory97

Junior Member

RENESIS VIII

7,000 RPM

Tory97

Junior Member

RENESIS VIII

7,000 RPM

gunnerzz

2,000 RPM

Tory97

Junior Member

alcyon

500 RPM

lsm1991

1,000 RPM

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