twinfin not really faster spool up?

normality78

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Having a nice discussion with my mech on last few days. Discussing about some turbo characteristic. Thn a question was raised. Now, supposed that Td04HL is a twinfin turbine which should provide better respond / faster but would Td04 will spool up faster thn TD04HL due to less weight advantage?

any opinion on this?
 

pathfinder

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i think twin fin not neccessarily give fast spooling...it should give more air intake.

fast spooling is great with ball bearing type turbo.

my 1cent
 

n3sta_n_roses

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pathfinder said:
i think twin fin not neccessarily give fast spooling...it should give more air intake.

fast spooling is great with ball bearing type turbo.

my 1cent
yup,i second that bro..:rock:
 

pathfinder

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just an example...B8-210 is real reponsive.the engine uses ball bearing IHI.

u can see latest trend in turbo system use ball bearing type. like garrett GT ,HKS GT,IHI/Apexi...

as for latest mitsubishi turbo...they not ball bearing but use twin scroll system for fast spooling. this my mechanic told me. i dunno betul ke tak.
 

revolution3

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good discustion ...compare witch the best ar turbine from garret or tdo5 from evo.. using at gsr engine.. ar garret using ballbearing n tdo5 using double fin
 

dolly

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pathfinder, dont confuse twin scroll with twin fin...

mitsu doesn't use ball bearing, but they do use some exotic material for the wheels...
 

pathfinder

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dolly bro..

yup...i know twin fin and twin scroll is two different thing.

twin scroll got to do with housing design right? and it help to minimize lag & fast spooling.

and..i would like to know the special material they use for the turbo wheel...u mean titanium?
 

pathfinder

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starting from evo 4 turbo..

twin-scroll turbo kept exhaust pulse energy high all the way to the turbine wheel, improving boost response so effectively that the size of the turbine housing was stepped up (from 7 cm2 to 9 cm2). Coupled with a new cam grind, the larger turbine housing promoted better volumetric efficiency at higher engine speeds, while the twin-scroll took care of the low end

evo 6....

Though Mitsubishi did not claim an increase in engine output for Evolution VI, its power delivery improved in RS by using a titanium-aluminide turbine wheel, a world's first in a production car. With lower density than a traditional Inconel turbine wheel, this intermetallic alloy reduced rotational inertia, improving boost response. However, titanium-aluminide is more brittle than Inconel, and to avoid potential durability problems the titanium-aluminide turbo was not available in the street-biased GSR model.

evo 7...

a smaller twin-scroll turbine housing (reduced from 10.5 to 9.8 cm2). Paired with a 20mm larger intercooler and a lower-backpressure exhaust, the sauce was spread over a broader range of engine speeds than ever before. Overall, the VII was an even more potent performer-if a more civilized one-than the VI.



What are twin scroll or divided inlet turbine housings? What are the benefits of using a twin scroll turbo?
A "twin scroll" or "divided inlet" means that there are two separate volutes within the turbine housing. The main reason for doing this is to isolate the pulses coming from each exhaust port and maintain more of the pulse energy from each cylinder all the way down to the turbine wheel. There are no differences between the turbine wheels used in open or single inlet turbines compared to those used in twin or divided inlet turbines. Generally speaking, a divided inlet turbine setup will respond faster and produce boost quicker than single or open design of the same nozzle area, of course this is dependent upon proper execution. The simple fact that a divided housing is used does not guarantee these results. While it does not cause any problems or harm to run a divided inlet turbine housing on a manifold that is an "open" design, none of the benefits of the twin inlet will be seen.


The exhaust-gas-driven turbine is surrounded by a twin-scroll housing that helps direct and maintain exhaust gas velocity over the turbine wheel at lower speeds in order to improve response in the low-to-mid rpm range. In addition, a lubricated shaft connects the turbine to a compressor wheel, whose impeller helps build boost earlier, which reduces lag and improves response across the range.
 

Bushido

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ehehehe.....lucky for me i maintained my Td05L on my 63s...

ihihihi...i dont crave for better Gs...

all i want is an NA engine response with Turbine Gs..

so i stick with my Td05L...ported (to wider trim) & lightened at SPEEDSPIN TURBO...with 5 deg cutback on ex comp wheel..

spools up right,,,& give me a better Gs throughout RPMs until 7000....(whats the point of revving further anyway...khakahkha)
 

khoyos

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from what i experienced, spool up time is the same. but the g-force when boost come is totally different.

tried td04, td04l, td05h-14b, td05h-16g,

td04 & td04L same spool up time @3000rpm.

14b & 16g same spool up time @ 4500rpm

on 4G61T
 

Bushido

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khoyos.......spool up time....are not when the turbine starts to kick in.....as u say @3000rpm is when the g can be felt kickin in....spool up time is how fast the turbine can reach from let say from vac -55kpa to 0 kpa...then from 0 to 1 bar.....
 

pathfinder

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wakaka..

if for fast spool & early boost...i think the ori gsr turbo is doing the job well.but it's out of breath when reaching high rpm.

if can afford the new garrett GT series...get the garrett. SDF is garett sifoo.

to me,the twin scroll TD05 is more than enough for daily drive. balance package response,power&affordable price.repair kit & service also not too expensive.
driving with big turbo in slow moving & stop-go traffic really unpleasant.
 

normality78

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wait. i go and add another baris of 4 inline thn only i hentam in a T04R . :cry_smile: :cry_smile: :cry_smile:
 

SDF

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path..

i not real sifoo...juz tryin to help out and correct certain perception if possible..and i try not to limit myself to within Garrett as we also are the Master Distributor for Mitsubishi and IHI ....
 

tkk

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pathfinder said:
just an example...B8-210 is real reponsive.the engine uses ball bearing IHI.

u can see latest trend in turbo system use ball bearing type. like garrett GT ,HKS GT,IHI/Apexi...

as for latest mitsubishi turbo...they not ball bearing but use twin scroll system for fast spooling. this my mechanic told me. i dunno betul ke tak.
how fast is the spoon time for B.B turbo? b8210 is kick in at which RPM for B8? by the way i'm driving a b8 also. but have no chance to play for 210 turbo yet....:regular_smile:

how about Trust Greedy turbo? is B.B or normal type?

Thanks dude...
 

Joeker

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A turbine with more fins(twin fins) will able to spool with less velocity of flow.

For example a windmill.

A windmill with many fins will churn at the slightest gust of win compared to a windwill with a few fins.

So in a way twin fin turbines do help spool up

HOWEVER, as the flow increases, the fins then become resistance.

My layman understanding of twin fin.
 
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