<<Overhaul/ SOHC VTEC/ B16A??>>>

[civic EdGe]

Hi all Honda Sifuz……

Like the topic above, really need your opinion for my situation now….
The “detailed” details are as the following:...:sleep:

The Car
Honda Civic EG 4 doors 1993, 1.6 (A) fuel injection

The Problem
Engine oil and gearbox oil leaking
Harsh engine sound
Upper arm, rack end, and a few bushes in the front “kong”
A few spoiled bushes and absorbers at the back
Frequent breakdown of the aircond system (already repaired, but dunno when the penyakit will come back....:hmmmm:)

The Options
1. Overhaul + Necessary Repairs
Quoted RM2k+ for the engine overhaul onli.
So far no problem with gearbox even though the oil is leaking, but IF kong, additional of around RM1k have to be spent.

2. SOHC Vtec (A) EG halfcut transplant
Quoted RM3k for the halfcut, RM1k for the transplant workmanship ONLY.
According to my mech, they should be able to find a vey good halfcut with this price,
after transplant probably no more problems with suspension system, bushes, etc. (excluding the rear )

3. B16A2 (A) EG halfcut transplant
Quoted RM6800 for the halfcut, the rest same as option #2.


The driving habit
Err……actually im not really that mad about performance and engine power…..
My concern is around……..60% reliability ( can last long, no more headache ), 20% fuel consumption, 20% engine performance…… seldom floor the accelerator and brake pedal (unless in certain situation)…. After everything is done and repaired, maybe will invest in some minor mods like I/E/H, VS, performance plugs and cables etc…

The solution
Sifooz, any comment on my case above? I know there might be a lot of Sifuz that will suggest me to change to B16 straight away…. But for some reasons, sometimes I feel B16A will not be so beneficial to me coz im not that type of driver that can “utilize” the power that it produce…. Just hoping that after I have done with the repair this time, my ride will not give me that much “repair headaches” again, and will be a little more fuel efficient than now….
Even though I always receive comments from ppl around me that its not worth it to buy an old car, spend so much on repair/ transplant, blablabla…… I still believe that a done up EG is fun to drive around… afterall, its an EG ,rite? …… appreciate advices and new ideas from any of u and many many thanks in advance….

 

[reddice]

why auto??not manual??

im using b18c,auto..i think better u go for manual..

 

[JINEIL2EN]

"O"................

 

[arrowhead]

i beg to differ to with your mech's statement. after transplant, problems will occur depending on ur luck when choosing a halfcut. it may look "oh-so-gorgeous" and all, but might give u hell once u plonk it into ur engine bay.

since ur current bushings already kong, when u transplant, its best to replace them all with new ones (not from the halfcut) because, think about it, halfcut items aren't new, their also probably aged about the same as your car (EG halfcut - 92-94).

perhaps u can use some stuff from the halfcut like upper arm, rack end.. but there's no guarantee that their not faulty.

oh and believe me on this matter, example, say u opted for the eg6 (b16a) halfcut which goes for 6.8k and 1k for workmanship. it doesn't end there. u'll need to fork out an additional 1k (maybe more) to replace wear/tear parts such as timing belt, alternator belt, power steering belt, power steering fluid, brake fluid, radiotor coolant, service air cond (put in new gas), change new brake pads(front and rear), skim the disc brakes (front and rear) provided u weren't so lucky as me in this case. hehe.

and wow, 6.8k for auto halfcut? it was about 5.5k 3 months ago. perhaps ur mech didn't take the effort to search properly, my manual halfcut cost 6.5k only.

the same goes for option #2, because its still a halfcut. option #1 may cost more than u think also, not saying ur mech's a con but they can make u change things which aren't faulty unless u are like me, stand there all the time, everyday to see what their doing. doesn't necessarily rule conning out, but i'm sure they'll think twice if they wanna do so.

hope this helps. i'm merely speaking from experience. i did my conversion about 3-4 months back. my halfcut was in immaculate condition, but i had to spend additional 2-3k on repairs.

good luck.

 

[D-IV]

Question is.... whats your maximum budget? Pretty hard to say go for the 3k instead of the 7.8K when your budget is 10K.

 

[J101]

option no.1 :
overhaul it and see what gasket, seals, rings that needs to be changed.

if u have spare money or the next budget around :
seek an aircon specialist instead of a car mechanic when u have
an aircon problem. it could be super dirty aircon system, or dying cooling coil, or busted compressor and etc. service your aircon system
annually. aircon is mandatory nowadays.

when u have the money next time :
slowly change the bushes to any liking from original honda parts to aftermarket. and also the rear shox like u mentioned.

plan wisely, log your service visits. watch for wear and tear.

 

[shiroitenshi]

If you're not contemplating power, take out B16A as an option, stick with SOHC option

Overhaul, or swap?

If there's a lot of parts that's having trouble that the swap will be cheaper, it can be considered better to swap since it equals LESS MONEY.
However, as to it being TRULY BETTER other than being CHEAPER, is questionable.

You'd be buying a halfcut MORE than a decade old. It will NEVER be ONLY the price of the halfcut. It will balloon pretty quickly unless you tell your mech.. "just install everything as it is, rosak/worn out or not"

i can say for most people trying to save money with that method that they end up buying the halfcut, and then SPENB SOMEMORE on sparepart replacement.

If you want to maintain reliability, and power is not foremost, then I'd suggest to OVERHAUL it. It will be close to, and might exceed the price of the halfcut, but you end up with NEW parts in an OLD ENGINE, rather than the halfcut method, where you end up with OLD PARTS in an OLD ENGINE. Seems like a pretty obvious choice to me.

Then again, in recent times, I think the WALLET will dictate your actions, isn't it?

I just got through a RM852 a/cond overhaul.. lol. I know the financial pains. :P I remember it used to be like 500-600 tops.. LOL.

The reason why halfcuts were used as a solution when having engine trouble is due to inexperienced mechanics, or owners who think they can get away with cheaper repairs.

Inexperienced mechanics because it saves them time troubleshooting and fixing the problem, and owners, for obvious financial reasons.

 

[civic EdGe]

Wow… seeing so many replies really made me feel touched…..
OK OK, I have to make this part by part..:


reddice:
Ermm…. Im sticking to auto bcoz im afraid I will regret converting it to manual…
With all the jams here during the peak working hours, it made me feel like want to stick with auto trans, though I have to fork out more for the petrol money….. and if possible, I plan to keep my car for quite some time (not selling it so soon)


arrowhead:
Wa… scratch head… actually I did have some doubts when my mech said that putting in a “gorgeous” halfcut will most probably settle those failures within the suspension… coz when I come to think about it, the halfcut is quite aged, and sometimes might be kept for dunno how long d….

So I think 1 have to reserve at least RM1k apart from the halfcut and workmanship fees for repair……. And regarding the halfcut price, actually from my own “jalan jalan cari halfcut”, I did manage to find RM5.5k for B16A auto… just that the tauke have to call someone else to bring in the halfcut and demanded for a small sum of money even b4 I can SEE the halfcut myself….:hmpf:...hmm… I smell some fish here….haha


D-IV:
My current budget is actually RM4k++ only… but I am willing to save up more and allocate around 8k++ if really found a good option… rather spend more at one go than repair it bit by bit then in the end waste more on workmanship fees….


J101:
Actually, I have changed both the compressor and the cooling coil coz both of them leaking…......... Haihzz….
I plan to change all the bushes and the absorbers for the rear first….. Then after I am done with the overhaul or engine transplant, then only change all the bushes at the front…. Does this way work? Coz from comments that I hav heard, if wanna change the bushes it is more recommended to change all at one time…


Shiro:
Yup… Overhaul = NEW parts in OLD engine, but is still reliable…
I think I get your point here…. Some ppl might want to solve the problem through transplant, but end up paying more because the halfcut condition is not much better than the original engine, rite?....
Btw shiro, ur driving an SR4 too? Actually is there any power difference between our original EG engine and the SOHC Vtec EG’s halfcut?.... I mean across the whole rpm range, not the Vtec range only……I think the engine code is D16 sumthing rite? need some enlightenment here… hehe


Thanks all for your comments and advice…. Sorry for the long post, my summarizing skills are bad….:cheers:

 

[arrowhead]

i think shiro's advise would be the best since u aren't really looking for power but reliability. after all, i also turn to him when seeking advise. good luck!

 

[D-IV]

It is already set, you're not after the power but reliability. Not to say the b16a isn't a reliable engine though. Work on the engine overhaul and then you'll still left with money to spend on the suspension bushings and shocks. And you're set to have a nice ride...

 

[arrowhead]

but my b16a is not reliable HAHAHA just jk.

 

[shiroitenshi]

Shiro:
Yup… Overhaul = NEW parts in OLD engine, but is still reliable…
I think I get your point here…. Some ppl might want to solve the problem through transplant, but end up paying more because the halfcut condition is not much better than the original engine, rite?....
Btw shiro, ur driving an SR4 too? Actually is there any power difference between our original EG engine and the SOHC Vtec EG’s halfcut?.... I mean across the whole rpm range, not the Vtec range only……I think the engine code is D16 sumthing rite? need some enlightenment here… hehe


Thanks all for your comments and advice…. Sorry for the long post, my summarizing skills are bad….:cheers:

Yeah, I'm driving an SR4, but I only had the D16 for a while (a while as in a day or two, lol), that's because the engine was problematic already.

In terms of power, the D16 is adequate for daily driving where you see sub 5K rpm. The D16 has good low end torque, in part thanks to it's 1.5x rod ratio, vs. the B16A which has the 1.7x rod ratio.

But once into vtec, that's where the b16A shines. I got around 187hp on a dastek dyno (happend to do it because I was waiting for another car to finish getting tuned) but that's with the mugen headers and hks intake.. no other mods.. not even the ECU. I only had a fuel pressure regulator to bump up the fuel press to 3.5 bar.

So at high rpm, the B16A will leave the D16 behind, because when you 'rempit', the only time you see 1-5K rpm is in the first gear, the rest will be in the 5-8K rpm range, where D16 just doesn't have.

I did drive another D16 in an SR4 for a while though that remained stock, primarily because the engine was so healthy, it's pretty much a waste to simply swap another engine, esp. if it's a daily driven car.

The local spec doesn't have a D16 code, it has some code beginning with M (something)

The D16 is the single cam vtec. Pretty decent, with good low end torque, but high rpm still loses out to B16A.

Over here, the single cam isn't very popular, but there's many people over in the states that run and modify the single cam quite succesfully. As I recall, there was some people with D16 turbos in drag races last time in Malaysia, but I guess they gave up on it, since we don't see or hear about them no more..

 

[arrowhead]

i heard the sohc vtec engines are the engine to BOT due to the compression... correct me if i'm wrong? :rolleyes:

 

[shiroitenshi]

well, they're lower than B16A, don't remember by how much. 9.5,9?

compression isn't everything though, but if you have the tuning capability, slightly higher is okay. I'm only running 11s on my B16A.. measured lol.. there's a pic in a recent post. I could have went over 12 with the b16B piston combo, but I'm a bit moderate when it comes to modding a daily driven car, esp when I don't want to spend too much on maintainance.

Well, that came about due to leaking valves. My modifications usually done if the original parts break down, lol. Like my distributor that has yet to die after 240,000 kms. :P

 

[arrowhead]

well, they're lower than B16A, don't remember by how much. 9.5,9?

compression isn't everything though, but if you have the tuning capability, slightly higher is okay. I'm only running 11s on my B16A.. measured lol.. there's a pic in a recent post. I could have went over 12 with the b16B piston combo, but I'm a bit moderate when it comes to modding a daily driven car, esp when I don't want to spend too much on maintainance.

Well, that came about due to leaking valves. My modifications usually done if the original parts break down, lol. Like my distributor that has yet to die after 240,000 kms. :P

so compression isn't much of an issue? hmm ok i heard otherwise. but no doubt, with enough money and the correct knowledge, anything can be done properly.