Help on amps!

[peachmonkey]

DJThormented:
Heh,nice signature...two 12" subs on a kid's bike. If me dad let me do that when I was 5 I would know my way around ICE by now...Hahah!

Anyway,so if I were to remove the rear 6X9 and only be running on my front component set I would need a pretty high powered set right? What set would be suitable for my car? Say at a budget of rm500 (for the component set)

A 3-way HU? How do I check if the HU is 3-way? Am currently using clarion player with cd-changer(from waja). Don't think it's 3-way.

Wow! A 4channel and 2 channel amp? Why soo much? I'm just running a single component set and a sub. Why soo many amps? Say I run the component set with the 4channel amp and the sub with the 2channel. I thought of getting a 4channel and bridging it to run both the component and sub. Is that possible?

Hmm...I always thought the more speakers the better. But it seems that most of the sifu's here suggest using only front speakers and a sub. Heh,cut cost lah like that right? :p

 

[kyheng]

When you say 'the best is still put on front door, provided your car already have', do you mean I should install a front component set if my car doesn't have one? What if I already have a front component set and would like to add a rear component to replace the 6X9 speakers? Would that be a good idea?

What does SVC & DVC mean?

You only bridge when your using a 4channel amp to power a 2 set component and a sub correct? If I get a 4channel amp to power a 2 set component and a single monoblock for the amp, I wouldn't need to bridge the amp right?
So if say the speakers are at 80watts each, a 4 X 100W amp would be enough right? Got difference between passive crossover and electronic crossover?

Can mix different brands of speakers and amps together? Other than mohawk what other brands should I consider if my budget is within the mid-range area?

That is correct, but for me I don't trust every single installer for their workmanship on installing my speakers on front door unless my car is an old one, then maybe I can consider it. Do you mean that there is still no component on your door and your car is still new? If yes then you can try my setup : front put 1 pair of 2 way 4.5" speakers and rear 6.5" component, get a HU with 3 pre-out , 1 2 channel amp for sub and 1 4 channel amp for speakers, pre-amp and e-crossovers no need, and the sound quality is not bad. When carrying passenger just turn off the sub and already like normall listening. Because of 2 way speakers sound is sharp so when tunning the front must be less until your rear can be heard.

When the amp bridged, is mainly for sub only. Normally if can 4 channel don't use for powering a sub as some cheap brand unable to push a sub. The 4 channel that can push a sub is very costly.

You can always mix brand together for your taste, but don't get a very very high amp but cheap speakers, like that sure cannot. If your budget is limited, is better that you scout around the normal shops first, don't ever ever go to high end shops, with the workmanship is already cutting your throat, then they will say this cannot put like this that one not powerful enough.

 

[peachmonkey]

Here's my current set-up. Could you suggest what I should do to it? I don't plan to do everything all at once. Slow and steady :p

Player : Clarion cassette player + CD-changer (came from Waja)
Front : Boschman 6" component set
Rear : Standard 6X9 speakers that come with Wira

If I plan to change the front set to 6.5" can the new speakers fit into the old hole that has been cut?

I am thinking of replacing the front component set coz the left side speaker seems to have blown. If I turn the fader to the front and balance to the left, the sound from that speaker seems distorted & 'pecah'. Could it be the foam or is the speaker really spoilt?
Btw,I've been seeing a lot of these terms around. What do they actually mean?
SQL?
SPL?
SVC?
DVC?

 

[kyheng]

So your door already have hole, then is 50/50, see your luck, maybe no need. Anyway what do you mean step by step? Your player only have 1 pre-out and double din. So your first step is change the HU that have 3 pre-outs one, if not you have to add a pre-amp. Then a 2ch or 4ch amp to power your speakers. You have to change some components at once as pre-amp normally bring air plane if cheap one.
You can change your front speakers already as they are confirm retired.

SQL is SQ actually means for own listening
SPL is not for own listening, for outside people listen, something like you can hear it on the other street
SVC is single voice coil woofer, is the most common speakers on the market, normally is 4ohm or 8ohm
DVC is dual voice coil woofer, the price is higher and more powerful than normal SVC, but it can go down to 2ohm or sometimes even 1ohm. 1ohm monoblock amp will cost alot because of its stablility.

 

[peachmonkey]

So your saying I should do the following :
1. Change HU that has 3 pre-outs to avoid using a pre-amp
2. Add an amp to power speakers
3. Change component set (should I use 2-way or 3-way? what's the difference?)
4. Add sub & amp to power sub

Any addition to the steps? :p
If I want to have a balance of both SQL and SPL what do I need to do? Btw,the SVC and DVC refers to the subs right? So if I get a DVC sub,I'll need a matching monoblock (1ohm) to power it.

 

[DJThoRmented]

Heh peachmonkey, that's my lil wood monkey I keep at home when I return from work. Investment in him is highly cost even more than what I own. But loosing him would mean loosing the world around... he he he...

ps: Thought him to be audiophile since he was in mommy's tummy!

Anyways back to the topic...

Since you already have a BM 6" comps, then leave it. I guess budget constrains you to look further well ICE is a long and never ending journey though. It took me 1 whole year to really know what subwoofer I want so...

As best I can see from your setup, I would strongly suggest a change of the CD player. Try to get some decent 3-way units (may cost bout rm100 or 2 extra). These 3-way means the unit as 3 pairs of preouts (which you will use once the amp comes in). The preouts are:
1. High Pass/Front (Switchable) - This preout are usually meant for tweeters.
2. Band Pass/Rear (Switchable) - This preout are usually meant for mids.
3. Low Pass/Sub - This one should really indicate its means... SUBWOOFER!!

At least with this kind of unit you will be able to save up on XO and EQ (if available) but for a start... why not?

Next on your journey would be a 4 channel amp to power up the front and rear... and the journey will never stop there trust me...

When you come to a stage where stable power comes to your mind you will want 2 channel amp of every pair of comps you own... at that point... your journey towards the dark side is complete

Oh ya, not all amp are brigable.

Why 4 channel... very easy...
2 channel for tweeters
2 channel for mids

And the other 2 channel amp for Sub



Wish you happy marriage with ICE... he he he

 

[kyheng]

1,2,4 is correct. If component set normally have a pair of speakers, twetters and passive crossovers. The speakers is 1 way only. Don't ever use your amp to power your tweeters unless you want to spoilt your ears, if component use the passive crossovers, if seperate tweeter, use your HU to power it. 4channel amp is best when you want to put speakers on front and speakers on rear, so that you can adjust fader on it.
If you want to have SPL and SQ then you will need 2 12" woofer already and normally people cannot stand the woofer's bass if turn the volume high...
SVC and DVC is refer to sub. If you only using a 4ohm DVC sub, the most it can only go down to 2ohm which a normal amp can take it. But when you running 2 sub then it will go down to 1ohm which most of the 2 channel amp or even some monoblock also cannot do....
HU with 3 pre-outs and affordable one you can try Pioneer 5750mp which I'm using now. I will say it can settle all your problem and the sound quality not bad.(not to compare with high end player)

 

[Zenn]

i think have to change HU first lah, if not susah...
if u dont have the budget yet, u can look for a 4 ch amp that accepts high level input (speaker wires), if not u need to get 2 sets of Hi-Lo adapters to convert your speaker out from HU to rca out. rca cable is what we use to send signal from Hu to amps.

back to the issue for rear speakers, if u have to (drive large car with rear passengers all the time) just power the rear speakers with the HU power, no need amp.

 

[DJThoRmented]

1,2,4 is correct. If component set normally have a pair of speakers, twetters and passive crossovers. The speakers is 1 way only. Don't ever use your amp to power your tweeters unless you want to spoilt your ears, if component use the passive crossovers, if seperate tweeter, use your HU to power it. 4channel amp is best when you want to put speakers on front and speakers on rear, so that you can adjust fader on it.
If you want to have SPL and SQ then you will need 2 12" woofer already and normally people cannot stand the woofer's bass if turn the volume high...
SVC and DVC is refer to sub. If you only using a 4ohm DVC sub, the most it can only go down to 2ohm which a normal amp can take it. But when you running 2 sub then it will go down to 1ohm which most of the 2 channel amp or even some monoblock also cannot do....
HU with 3 pre-outs and affordable one you can try Pioneer 5750mp which I'm using now. I will say it can settle all your problem and the sound quality not bad.(not to compare with high end player)

Brader... why lar cannot power tweeter from amp? Been doing so a long time already... he he he... or else how la to be full active user.

Go active more fun worrr...

 

[peachmonkey]

Thanks for the advise sifu's! So I should be looking at replacing my current player now. Besides the brand that sifu kyheng suggested (Pioneer 5750mp) is there any 3-way HU that I should be looking at? How about Alpine CDM 9821? What's the budget like for these kind of players?

A 4channel amp after I get a HU? So I'll be using it to power my current front component and my rear 6X9? I thought I was told to remove the 6X9 and run with the front set only?

Heh,wuz just about to ask about using the amp to power the tweeter. Guess I'll wait for an answer from you sifu's! :p

 

[DJThoRmented]

i think have to change HU first lah, if not susah...
if u dont have the budget yet, u can look for a 4 ch amp that accepts high level input (speaker wires), if not u need to get 2 sets of Hi-Lo adapters to convert your speaker out from HU to rca out. rca cable is what we use to send signal from Hu to amps.

back to the issue for rear speakers, if u have to (drive large car with rear passengers all the time) just power the rear speakers with the HU power, no need amp.

hoi tak kerja ker? main wireless free

 

[DJThoRmented]

Thanks for the advise sifu's! So I should be looking at replacing my current player now. Besides the brand that sifu kyheng suggested (Pioneer 5750mp) is there any 3-way HU that I should be looking at? How about Alpine CDM 9821? What's the budget like for these kind of players?

A 4channel amp after I get a HU? So I'll be using it to power my current front component and my rear 6X9? I thought I was told to remove the 6X9 and run with the front set only?

Heh,wuz just about to ask about using the amp to power the tweeter. Guess I'll wait for an answer from you sifu's! :p

Oh ya, I don't know about the rest but please don't call sifu as the learning process does not end so till it does I for one will not be a sifu!



Plan your way first. Listen to all varieties you've got. Also don't forget your budget

After getting the head unit settle down to hunt for a 4 channel amp. Make sure its good enough for your future plans.

Once you've gotten the amp, power it to your existing speakers (unless bonus comes along or Uncle Lim sponsor) then get a sub THEN you unplug the 6x9.

And slowly you'll be touching into changing to good good RCAs, speaker wires, sound dampening and the list goes on till you reach the dark side of the force.

 

[peachmonkey]

Heh,got free wireless sure online 24-7 lah...Hahah!

Btw,any suggestions on the type of HU I should get? But I'll need to get rid of my current player (or at least the cd-changer) first.
I'm heard a lot of good reviews on alpine but I'm open to suggestions. How do I determine the number of preouts on the player? Can see wan ar? Or just ask the seller?

Heh,sound-proofing seems soo far away now DJThor...can't wait for the days till all I hear while driving is the pounding sound of my bass! :p

 

[kyheng]

Brader... why lar cannot power tweeter from amp? Been doing so a long time already... he he he... or else how la to be full active user.

Go active more fun worrr...

If use a 4 channel amp that 75watt per channel, 2 for tweeters and 2 for speakers, can our ears stand the high pitch from the tweeters? Mine sure cannot. If turn the gain on the amp to minimum then will it be a watse for the amp? Anyway I don't know what do you mean by full active. If it means that your tweeter volume can be adjusted using pre-amp or Hu, then mine powered by Hu also considered as full active. Am i right?

 

[DJThoRmented]

If use a 4 channel amp that 75watt per channel, 2 for tweeters and 2 for speakers, can our ears stand the high pitch from the tweeters? Mine sure cannot. If turn the gain on the amp to minimum then will it be a watse for the amp? Anyway I don't know what do you mean by full active. If it means that your tweeter volume can be adjusted using pre-amp or Hu, then mine powered by Hu also considered as full active. Am i right?

He he he... well my friend I'm running full active and my tweeters powered directly from my amp.

Used to be three 2 channel amps. Each amp powering different comps.

Now it's one 4 channel, one 2 channel (might change the config again: subject to free time) where the 4 channel runs my mid and tweeters while the 2 channel runs my sub.

I go full active meaning my XO is not limited to Band/High Pass and Low Pass. I go all meaning individually High Pass for tweets; Band Pass for mids and Low Pass for subs. So I don't waste anything. Tweaking is mostly done at the XO part crossing my tweets at which 'k'. Well my XO is limited to 3 way only, some people out there got more way meaning more comps are welcomed... he he he.

One more thing, it might also be that your tweeters do not match your amp or the other way around or their matching takes time. Different taste, different handshake.

Try out the variables, then you'll see what I mean.