Help on amps!

[DJThoRmented]

Heh peachmonkey, that's my lil wood monkey I keep at home when I return from work. Investment in him is highly cost even more than what I own. But loosing him would mean loosing the world around... he he he...

ps: Thought him to be audiophile since he was in mommy's tummy!

Anyways back to the topic...

Since you already have a BM 6" comps, then leave it. I guess budget constrains you to look further well ICE is a long and never ending journey though. It took me 1 whole year to really know what subwoofer I want so...

As best I can see from your setup, I would strongly suggest a change of the CD player. Try to get some decent 3-way units (may cost bout rm100 or 2 extra). These 3-way means the unit as 3 pairs of preouts (which you will use once the amp comes in). The preouts are:
1. High Pass/Front (Switchable) - This preout are usually meant for tweeters.
2. Band Pass/Rear (Switchable) - This preout are usually meant for mids.
3. Low Pass/Sub - This one should really indicate its means... SUBWOOFER!!

At least with this kind of unit you will be able to save up on XO and EQ (if available) but for a start... why not?

Next on your journey would be a 4 channel amp to power up the front and rear... and the journey will never stop there trust me...

When you come to a stage where stable power comes to your mind you will want 2 channel amp of every pair of comps you own... at that point... your journey towards the dark side is complete

Oh ya, not all amp are brigable.

Why 4 channel... very easy...
2 channel for tweeters
2 channel for mids

And the other 2 channel amp for Sub



Wish you happy marriage with ICE... he he he

 

[kyheng]

1,2,4 is correct. If component set normally have a pair of speakers, twetters and passive crossovers. The speakers is 1 way only. Don't ever use your amp to power your tweeters unless you want to spoilt your ears, if component use the passive crossovers, if seperate tweeter, use your HU to power it. 4channel amp is best when you want to put speakers on front and speakers on rear, so that you can adjust fader on it.
If you want to have SPL and SQ then you will need 2 12" woofer already and normally people cannot stand the woofer's bass if turn the volume high...
SVC and DVC is refer to sub. If you only using a 4ohm DVC sub, the most it can only go down to 2ohm which a normal amp can take it. But when you running 2 sub then it will go down to 1ohm which most of the 2 channel amp or even some monoblock also cannot do....
HU with 3 pre-outs and affordable one you can try Pioneer 5750mp which I'm using now. I will say it can settle all your problem and the sound quality not bad.(not to compare with high end player)

 

[Zenn]

i think have to change HU first lah, if not susah...
if u dont have the budget yet, u can look for a 4 ch amp that accepts high level input (speaker wires), if not u need to get 2 sets of Hi-Lo adapters to convert your speaker out from HU to rca out. rca cable is what we use to send signal from Hu to amps.

back to the issue for rear speakers, if u have to (drive large car with rear passengers all the time) just power the rear speakers with the HU power, no need amp.

 

[DJThoRmented]

1,2,4 is correct. If component set normally have a pair of speakers, twetters and passive crossovers. The speakers is 1 way only. Don't ever use your amp to power your tweeters unless you want to spoilt your ears, if component use the passive crossovers, if seperate tweeter, use your HU to power it. 4channel amp is best when you want to put speakers on front and speakers on rear, so that you can adjust fader on it.
If you want to have SPL and SQ then you will need 2 12" woofer already and normally people cannot stand the woofer's bass if turn the volume high...
SVC and DVC is refer to sub. If you only using a 4ohm DVC sub, the most it can only go down to 2ohm which a normal amp can take it. But when you running 2 sub then it will go down to 1ohm which most of the 2 channel amp or even some monoblock also cannot do....
HU with 3 pre-outs and affordable one you can try Pioneer 5750mp which I'm using now. I will say it can settle all your problem and the sound quality not bad.(not to compare with high end player)

Brader... why lar cannot power tweeter from amp? Been doing so a long time already... he he he... or else how la to be full active user.

Go active more fun worrr...

 

[peachmonkey]

Thanks for the advise sifu's! So I should be looking at replacing my current player now. Besides the brand that sifu kyheng suggested (Pioneer 5750mp) is there any 3-way HU that I should be looking at? How about Alpine CDM 9821? What's the budget like for these kind of players?

A 4channel amp after I get a HU? So I'll be using it to power my current front component and my rear 6X9? I thought I was told to remove the 6X9 and run with the front set only?

Heh,wuz just about to ask about using the amp to power the tweeter. Guess I'll wait for an answer from you sifu's! :p

 

[DJThoRmented]

i think have to change HU first lah, if not susah...
if u dont have the budget yet, u can look for a 4 ch amp that accepts high level input (speaker wires), if not u need to get 2 sets of Hi-Lo adapters to convert your speaker out from HU to rca out. rca cable is what we use to send signal from Hu to amps.

back to the issue for rear speakers, if u have to (drive large car with rear passengers all the time) just power the rear speakers with the HU power, no need amp.

hoi tak kerja ker? main wireless free

 

[DJThoRmented]

Thanks for the advise sifu's! So I should be looking at replacing my current player now. Besides the brand that sifu kyheng suggested (Pioneer 5750mp) is there any 3-way HU that I should be looking at? How about Alpine CDM 9821? What's the budget like for these kind of players?

A 4channel amp after I get a HU? So I'll be using it to power my current front component and my rear 6X9? I thought I was told to remove the 6X9 and run with the front set only?

Heh,wuz just about to ask about using the amp to power the tweeter. Guess I'll wait for an answer from you sifu's! :p

Oh ya, I don't know about the rest but please don't call sifu as the learning process does not end so till it does I for one will not be a sifu!



Plan your way first. Listen to all varieties you've got. Also don't forget your budget

After getting the head unit settle down to hunt for a 4 channel amp. Make sure its good enough for your future plans.

Once you've gotten the amp, power it to your existing speakers (unless bonus comes along or Uncle Lim sponsor) then get a sub THEN you unplug the 6x9.

And slowly you'll be touching into changing to good good RCAs, speaker wires, sound dampening and the list goes on till you reach the dark side of the force.

 

[peachmonkey]

Heh,got free wireless sure online 24-7 lah...Hahah!

Btw,any suggestions on the type of HU I should get? But I'll need to get rid of my current player (or at least the cd-changer) first.
I'm heard a lot of good reviews on alpine but I'm open to suggestions. How do I determine the number of preouts on the player? Can see wan ar? Or just ask the seller?

Heh,sound-proofing seems soo far away now DJThor...can't wait for the days till all I hear while driving is the pounding sound of my bass! :p

 

[kyheng]

Brader... why lar cannot power tweeter from amp? Been doing so a long time already... he he he... or else how la to be full active user.

Go active more fun worrr...

If use a 4 channel amp that 75watt per channel, 2 for tweeters and 2 for speakers, can our ears stand the high pitch from the tweeters? Mine sure cannot. If turn the gain on the amp to minimum then will it be a watse for the amp? Anyway I don't know what do you mean by full active. If it means that your tweeter volume can be adjusted using pre-amp or Hu, then mine powered by Hu also considered as full active. Am i right?

 

[DJThoRmented]

If use a 4 channel amp that 75watt per channel, 2 for tweeters and 2 for speakers, can our ears stand the high pitch from the tweeters? Mine sure cannot. If turn the gain on the amp to minimum then will it be a watse for the amp? Anyway I don't know what do you mean by full active. If it means that your tweeter volume can be adjusted using pre-amp or Hu, then mine powered by Hu also considered as full active. Am i right?

He he he... well my friend I'm running full active and my tweeters powered directly from my amp.

Used to be three 2 channel amps. Each amp powering different comps.

Now it's one 4 channel, one 2 channel (might change the config again: subject to free time) where the 4 channel runs my mid and tweeters while the 2 channel runs my sub.

I go full active meaning my XO is not limited to Band/High Pass and Low Pass. I go all meaning individually High Pass for tweets; Band Pass for mids and Low Pass for subs. So I don't waste anything. Tweaking is mostly done at the XO part crossing my tweets at which 'k'. Well my XO is limited to 3 way only, some people out there got more way meaning more comps are welcomed... he he he.

One more thing, it might also be that your tweeters do not match your amp or the other way around or their matching takes time. Different taste, different handshake.

Try out the variables, then you'll see what I mean.

 

[kyheng]

Thanks for the advise sifu's! So I should be looking at replacing my current player now. Besides the brand that sifu kyheng suggested (Pioneer 5750mp) is there any 3-way HU that I should be looking at? How about Alpine CDM 9821? What's the budget like for these kind of players?

A 4channel amp after I get a HU? So I'll be using it to power my current front component and my rear 6X9? I thought I was told to remove the 6X9 and run with the front set only?

Heh,wuz just about to ask about using the amp to power the tweeter. Guess I'll wait for an answer from you sifu's! :p

Well, a HU with 3 pre-outs, got mp3 function, display on average and sound quality not bad with the price of rm600-700 is consider can buy already. Alpine with single RCA output and without mp3 function also can cost 700. This is not the brand for you if budget is limited.
You can power your speakers with HU first latter only add the amp also is ok. If you want, you can continue to power your ori 6 X 9 also can. Like this it will be less wiring change on your car.
The tweeters if can try to power it using the passive crossovers provided by the component sets, if power from amp direct it will be too loud and will casue your ears to spoilt in long run.

 

[kyheng]

I see now, so this is mean by full active. Anyway I change to Pioneer 5750 is because of its ability to play mp3 and with 3 pre-outs. Last time I using a pre-amp and e-crossover also, but end up my car become KLIA. Now without these 2 I stay away from KLIA. I have a 4 channel amp and 2 channel amp. 4 channel amp is 2 power my front speakers and 2 for rear speakers. 2 channel is for my sub. The tweeter is power from my HU with a cap and bulb to control the bass. With this setup, my tweeter won't be too loud and high pitch even with the volume turn too high. Futhermore every year I do my medical checkup my ears still in perfect condition.

 

[peachmonkey]

Wah! Really take care of ear eh? :p

Hmm,how come you guys suggested me to remove my rear speaker but when I see your set-up, you still have your rear speakers? Just curious coz if it's too much hassle to remove the wiring of the 6X9, I don't think I will...
Btw,kyheng...what's the price of Pioneer 5750? Your review soo far on this product? And most important,got anti-shock ar? Scared later hit bump,the disc will skip.

DJThor,correct me if I'm wrong...so what you did was your 3-way HU is used up (high pass,band pass and low pass) to run the mids,tweeters and sub. Than you used the XO(crossover) to adjust the tweeter. What do you mean that your XO is limited to 3-way? And how to I make sure my tweeters match my amp? If I get a component set (front) can I use the tweeters that come with them or do I need to purchase a separate pair of tweeters?

Will go HU shopping this weekend. Hopefully there'll be someone selling their unit in the forum! :p

 

[kyheng]

Well, for the best sound stage according to most of the people in this forum is remove the rear speakers. Even sometimes I almost going to agree to this statement.
As my car front door don't have any hole for speakers and I don't want to have it so I have to change my setup. Your car door have hole for 6.5" speakers, right? If not you can follow my setup. Below dashboard is my 4.5" 2 way speakers that power by my 4 channel amp. Rear is my Rockford Fosgate 6.5" component with the tweeter should be put together with it but I use my HU to power it. The component is power by 4 channel amp also.
Tweeter function for me is got some zz sound is ok already. If the tweeter come out voice it will interfear with other speakers because of its high pitch.
My review for this HU is 10 fingers up. For middle range this is the best HU you can get. Performance is better than Kenwood or Sony. The radio reception is better than Alpine as Alpine when crossing some hills it will have less reception. The price I bought 1.5years ago is rm750, now should be cheaper. Anyway is a outdated model, now the new models with this range of price it only have 2 pre-outs. This is the down part. Most of the CD players now have the anti-shock, this you don't scare.
If you disconnect the 6X9 the wire you can leave it.
Normally HU if can try to buy new one, as the price will drop by 50% after sometime. You will not know the condition of the HU until you test it. Like mine all function all ok, but 1 of the RCA output earth is not good already.
My advice, if you are not going to challange people on ICE and are a normal listener, the best is make you ICE setup as simple as possible, get a HU with 3pre-outs if your plan is 2 front, 2 rear and a sub, 4 channel amp for speakers and a 2 channel for sub. Forgot about the pre-amp and e-crossovers.

 

[Izso]

peachmonkey : Let me give you the easiest possible setup you can have.

Front : Component speakers including passive crossover
Rear : Remove speaker (leave wiring there but wrap it up with insulation tape) and cover
Amp : Get a powerful 4-channel amp with 100w RMS per channel. Use 2 for front bridge the other 2 for sub
Sub : Depending on your amp (4ohm mono or 2ohm mono) get a sub with the same ratings, eg-4ohm 400W RMS, Double Voice Coil 4ohm (meaning 2ohm if connected parallel)

Or if you have the budget :

Front : Component speakers including passive crossover
Rear : Remove speaker (leave wiring there but wrap it up with insulation tape) and cover
Amp : Get a powerful 2-channel amp with 70W or more RMS per channel.
Sub amp : Easiest would be to get monoblock with decent wattage (at least 400w)
Sub : Any sub which tickles your fancy. Monoblocks can handle any type of sub.

Incidentally I have 2 types of 2-channel amps for sale if you're interested :_:

Genesis and Helix amps

Both of my amps are very clean very clear and at least conservatively 75w per channel. Helix being 80w (underrated). PM me if interested! :_:

 

[RF_Accord]

Hi Sifu,
If my mono block says 500watts x 1 @ 2 ohm, and I'm using 2 DVC 12" subs, does it mean I will get only 250watts for each subs?

 

[peachmonkey]

Thanks for the review kyheng. Might just go out this weekend to look for this HU. Btw,how's the display like? Green color? Interface easy to understand?

Once I get the HU I'll be thinking to add an amp.
Which is better to get? A 4channel or 2channel? Coz I'll be running only 1 set of mid speakers (front) would it be wise to get a 4channel amp? Or would it better to do what Izso suggested,get a powerful 2channel amp to power the mids and a monoblock for the sub?

Btw,izso...nice stuff bro. But I don't think it's within mu budget yet. I'm looking to get a HU! :p
Good luck with the sale though!

 

[kyheng]

Are you sure that you are not going to add anymore speakers on future? If yes, then is better that you buy 2 2 channel amp or 1 2 channel and 1 monoblock. But for you info, a simple monoblock with 300watt rms only can cost1k. Anyway just to let you know some technical specs on amps. 2 or 4 channel amps are called class AB with effiency only around 50% where monoblock(class d) is >80%. So when powering sub on long run, 2 channel will be very hot, but monoblock still warm only.
You buy seperate amps is better as cheap 4 channel amp cannot push a sub for long. Here I agree with Izso.
Back to your question, the lights for HU is green color, which I found out that at night it is not striking my eyes and the display is white and can be change(1 is brigther and 1 is dimmer) Maybe 5750 no more in the market already, if cannot you can try get 5650, you can check out the site for more info about it:
http://www.pioneermalaysia.com/pioneer.htm

Only the site is without price, this is the down part. Anyway I saw you somewhere else, anyway you look for the wrong guy already.

http://www.zerotohundred.com/newforums/showthread.php?t=48283&page=16

You can buy from him if you cannot get it outside but only abit expensive, I bought that time is 750... Anyway going out later to survey abit the price, long time never do already.

 

[peachmonkey]

Hrmm...I can't get the pioneer page to load. Office connection really sucks plus all the firewalls they've installed isn't helping. :p
Will check the site when I get home though. Does the pioneer 5650 have the same features as the 5750? The 5650 has a 3-way output too I hope?

Heh,I was asking about the price he was offering,but he has yet to reply me. I'll only be going to the car acc. shops in my area during the weekend so I wanted some prices to compare with. No harm asking right? :p

About the amps,when you say add more speakers are you reffering to adding more to the front or rear? I plan to change my front mids after I get the amp, but I'm not sure about adding any speakers to the rear (yet...). If I plan to add,I should get a 4channel amp to run the mids and a 2channel or monoblock to run the sub correct?
Will the 4channel amp heat up from running the mids? What about the 2channel for the sub? Will it heat up too?

If I don't plan to add,a 2channel amp (mids) and a monoblock or 2channel amp (sub) should be enough right? How to I choose the mids and amps so they will match with my player? Coz I've seen lots of people asking if a certain player will go well with another mid set or amp. Don't want the sound to come out funny either...

You going survey the price ar bro? If cheap in seremban tell me ah...I'll be in KL next weekend so maybe can buy from there! :p Than can TT also lor!

 

[kyheng]

5650 and 5850 only have 2 pre-outs, that is the down part. maybe last time Pioneer regret when introduce 5750. Are you stay in Sabah? Just want to know.. Anyway if just want to get a HU, you can try Brothers, is 1 ofthe shop that is selling cheap only workmanship very poor..
Yeah, if you are going to add speakers for rear later on, is best for you to get a 4 channel amp first for later upgrade...
Some chaep brands sure will be heated up when powering mid that bass is strong, but no worry, it will go to protect when too hot. Use 2 channel amp(bridged) for sub sure will be hot, so you must match it correctly amp power(350w) > sub power(300w) in this case your amp will not overloaded.
When you want to match your mids and amp, try to look for normal shop first, not the high end shops, sure you will get poison by them.
If you are not planning to add more speakers, if cannot get 5750, can try to consider 5650 or 5850...
Actually Seremban also not selling cheap, have to survey few first.