Bov stall engine

Lancerboy1

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Lancerboy1

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just changed to Greddy type S for my lance gsr.

but if i vent into air, engine stall, BUT if i tighten it, engine become more stable BUT bov cannot release all out since it is so tight..

is there any remedy?

now i recirculate the bov back. engine is ok now.

Anyway, any one use the greddy type S too? when i low boost, it produce soft birdie sound pheeee, but higher boost it sound like stock BOV (SAAAA) , is this supposed to sound this way for a greddy type S. (mine is not replica or copy type S)
 

kennethfong

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kennethfong

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lancerboy,

welcome to the modding world, now that u've installed ur BOV it is the first poison u take till u finally changed to a MAP or speed density or blow thru setup, all Mass Air Flow is incompatible with Vent To Atmosphere BOV, think of the logic, assuming 14.5X of air = 1X amount of fuel, and if ur MAF measures and tells ur ECU 14.5X amount of air, ECU processes and tells ur injector 1x of fuel, and with ur sudden release of throttle, means full block up for ur throttle butterfly valve, ur BOV opens to prevent shockwave back to ur precious turbine and out to atmostphere, injector is shooting richer than it should, this causes jerking between gears and even stalling since the combustion at that particular moment is too rich....

to cure this prob, get a HKS EIDS, which i did, but please be regretful when buying this coz the setting that u can do has only two knobs - 1 for rich/lean, another for cut off point, u can't tune this to the best u could coz all the adjustments points are linear....

then u'll try get an safc2 or neo, only then to regret that it's not really performing up 2 wat u expected, then maybe emanage (unless u get some pros out there who can fully utilize the ULTIMATE in converting into a full MAP setup), but soon u'll realize that u still need to ditch ur MAF to the sea and feed the dolphins, there u go finally u'll be typing in the google on how to remove ur MAF convert to speed density, blow thru, MAP bla bla, only then u get to know u can't do much unless u change the whole ECU, which means getting a standalone ECU, and later u'll find that it's really expensive getting a standalone, then u'll start searching for more solutions, such as the MEGASQUIRT!!

CONCLUSION: make up ur choice, many MAF human beings can live with an VTA BOV, but not for me, tighten ur BOV will normally do fine (except the new HKSSQV that i have which has no adjustment), however tightening ur BOV means sending ur air shockwaving into ur precious turbine (u dun wanna kill ur turbine don't u??) coz tightening up the BOV settings means it'll only open at 0.3 bar or higher, some even experienced 0.5 bar to prevent stalling!!!!
 

cipan_supercas

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cipan_supercas

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kennethfong said:
lancerboy,

welcome to the modding world, .....................

then u'll try get an safc2 or neo, only then to regret ........ only then u get to know u can't do much unless u change the whole ECU, which means getting a standalone ECU, and later u'll find that it's really expensive getting a standalone, then u'll start searching for more solutions, such as the MEGASQUIRT!!
Another bottle of poison?
 

kk9972

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kennethfong said:
lancerboy,

welcome to the modding world, now that u've installed ur BOV it is the first poison u take till u finally changed to a MAP or speed density or blow thru setup, all Mass Air Flow is incompatible with Vent To Atmosphere BOV, think of the logic, assuming 14.5X of air = 1X amount of fuel, and if ur MAF measures and tells ur ECU 14.5X amount of air, ECU processes and tells ur injector 1x of fuel, and with ur sudden release of throttle, means full block up for ur throttle butterfly valve, ur BOV opens to prevent shockwave back to ur precious turbine and out to atmostphere, injector is shooting richer than it should, this causes jerking between gears and even stalling since the combustion at that particular moment is too rich....

to cure this prob, get a HKS EIDS, which i did, but please be regretful when buying this coz the setting that u can do has only two knobs - 1 for rich/lean, another for cut off point, u can't tune this to the best u could coz all the adjustments points are linear....

then u'll try get an safc2 or neo, only then to regret that it's not really performing up 2 wat u expected, then maybe emanage (unless u get some pros out there who can fully utilize the ULTIMATE in converting into a full MAP setup), but soon u'll realize that u still need to ditch ur MAF to the sea and feed the dolphins, there u go finally u'll be typing in the google on how to remove ur MAF convert to speed density, blow thru, MAP bla bla, only then u get to know u can't do much unless u change the whole ECU, which means getting a standalone ECU, and later u'll find that it's really expensive getting a standalone, then u'll start searching for more solutions, such as the MEGASQUIRT!!

CONCLUSION: make up ur choice, many MAF human beings can live with an VTA BOV, but not for me, tighten ur BOV will normally do fine (except the new HKSSQV that i have which has no adjustment), however tightening ur BOV means sending ur air shockwaving into ur precious turbine (u dun wanna kill ur turbine don't u??) coz tightening up the BOV settings means it'll only open at 0.3 bar or higher, some even experienced 0.5 bar to prevent stalling!!!!

Dear Kenneth,
Thanks for the helping yesterday. I went to northam garage yesterday. My stupid fan was stop running with unknown reason. But after that when my car was there, the "GOD" is coming to check, the stupid running again! Mind be some wire connection problem...:angry_smile:
Anyway, I did ask about my BOV to Ah Loi. He mentioned that my 61T is having an old type air flow sensor which of course older than yours. I did mention about the problem you met which I never met since the first day I installed my BOV. He just told me "It is good that your car is not stalling". :emoticon_U:
I was confused. And then I asked him that whether the pressure released to air flow will harm my turbine, but he said that is not going to be since it was coming out from air flow. :confused_smile:
Well... I have no idea about it. Even my machenic in my hometown telling me the same thing. Haiz.. What to do?
Am I consider lucky?:X-:
 

ecupro

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ecupro

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To all,
Bro, Hot air sensor like Nissan:SR20,RB20, Frequency sensor like Mitsubishi:4G93T,4G61T,4G63T, this kind of design/setup system, we call a "Close Box System"
You can not mod the BOV.( You will get STALL engine )
So, those using map sensor (Boost) should not problem to mod the BOV, so you can install stand alone unit like Haltech, Microtech, Motec...MEGASQUIRT!!

Cipan,Another bottle of poison?..he...he.....

Oh...Yes....Protech...too

Good Luck.
 

kk9972

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kk9972

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Hi ecupro,
For my case, what is your comment? What is possible caused to my engine never stall? Please advise.

Thanks you.
 

kennethfong

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kennethfong

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kk,

gosh, better get ah loi to change the whole wiring for ur fan, if it's intermittent, it's as good as faulty... don't rely on it leerh...

i dun understand y he said that, will check with him when i c him....
 

kennethfong

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kennethfong

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just one thing need to emphasize, u can find loads of debate between MAF VTA BOV PROS N CONS in many many mnay esp DSM forums, some gets away with it, some stalls, some jerks, n u get different results....

if ur practically OK n u dun decide to mod further, keep it then n forget bout the physics of airflow.... if u'll like to deal with the prob, the theories is always right, MAF is incompatible with VTA BOV...
 

kennethfong

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kennethfong

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kk,

u might probably do a check on ur own 61T engine, whether the Mass Air Flow is using Karman Vortex, which i think it is, there are a few types of MAF out there (n since u oso mentioned ur engine has been modified before coming to ur hands), if it is a hotwire type, u can relocate ur MAF just before ur throttle body after the intercooler, so u'll get away with the 'air misreading info' sent to ur ecu, this is wat we call a blow thru setup....

of course there are still many piggyback methods that can solve this, eg. microtech mt4, hks vpc n many many many others esp the DSM aftermarket products normally available in US....
 

Lancerboy1

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bov

just now i tighten the screw, it sound better, the sharp bird sound last longer than before i tighten.

should i tighten more?
 

Lancerboy1

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by the way, i am running on re circulate, my type S is re circulating and engine is very stable like stock. greddy type S is really better than the stock one. not only it recirculate, it also give birdie sound.
 

Maxx

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the "birdie" sound is when pressurise air blowing backdward to the turbo when lifting off pedal.
reading off the net, often suggest that this will damage turbo bearings. as the backward air give more resistance for the turbin to spin freely.

bov usually needs to be tighten until no air leaks (at the bov) when max boost.
 

kk9972

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kennethfong said:
just one thing need to emphasize, u can find loads of debate between MAF VTA BOV PROS N CONS in many many mnay esp DSM forums, some gets away with it, some stalls, some jerks, n u get different results....

if ur practically OK n u dun decide to mod further, keep it then n forget bout the physics of airflow.... if u'll like to deal with the prob, the theories is always right, MAF is incompatible with VTA BOV...
I'm agree with the theory. But my practically practice is not giving me any problem...:X-:

Anyway, anyone ZTH-rian having the same result as I met? Please share your information and experience. I'm using 4G61T. Any 63T owner from E1 to E3? Kindly share share~`
 

kk9972

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kk9972

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kennethfong said:
kk,

u might probably do a check on ur own 61T engine, whether the Mass Air Flow is using Karman Vortex, which i think it is, there are a few types of MAF out there (n since u oso mentioned ur engine has been modified before coming to ur hands), if it is a hotwire type, u can relocate ur MAF just before ur throttle body after the intercooler, so u'll get away with the 'air misreading info' sent to ur ecu, this is wat we call a blow thru setup....

of course there are still many piggyback methods that can solve this, eg. microtech mt4, hks vpc n many many many others esp the DSM aftermarket products normally available in US....
Karman Vortex? Any method can check this out? Please advice on how to check. Thanks you so much bro. I never thought my MAF sesnsor would change. But that is true my engine did some changes before it comes to my hand. If that is, I think I'm very lucky.
 

Lancerboy1

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Maxx said:
the "birdie" sound is when pressurise air blowing backdward to the turbo when lifting off pedal.
reading off the net, often suggest that this will damage turbo bearings. as the backward air give more resistance for the turbin to spin freely.

bov usually needs to be tighten until no air leaks (at the bov) when max boost.
currently i got no boost leak, it hink BUt u got any idea my rpm on 3rd gear onwards seems slower to raise.. is it leaking or what?
 

kennethfong

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kk,

the site u posted is a subaru STI forum, it may or may not apply 2 our mitsubishi, but one thing that we can apply is the relocation of MAF like wat they said....

however, i've asked around many ppl including some US folks in some DSM forums, also the famous boschur racing in US for some related MAF Translator products, all the conclusions come back to me is that the relocation of our mitsubishi MAF for a blow thru will have few probs, one is the accuracy of data sensed by the air flow, it may go haywire or providing inconsistent data which is dangerous, remember we need consistent high air flow feeding the ECU at high revs, this is to instruct the injector to 'ejaculate' more fuel, if this fails or something goes wrong somewhere, ur risking ur pocket on an engine overhaul....

another problem for MAF is we need the honeycomb to make the air shooting straight, there can be no room for turbulence coz the MAF can't read the air properly, n u need 2 b sure if those are OK, another prob might be there might be oily residue of particles within that particular pressurised chamber, so this might kill your MAF quick...

in a perfect world, relocating ur MAF should be done just before the throttle body, i would prefer the BOV to be installed before the MAF to cure for unmetered air disease as we've discussed....
 

kennethfong

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sorry was caught up in a sudden long meeting, n now back....



other things that need to add or emphasize is that all MAF is not designed to be placed as a 'blow thru' setup, u can try but no guarantee..........however a Hotwire is more applicable for blow thru!! hotwire provides a constant heating to the wire exposed to the incoming air traffic, n when it cools down, it'll need more V to keep the element hot, thus this is how it tells the ECU based on this info.... I might probably need to take back my word on the 'perfect world' in the previous post, so if u placed the VTA BOV before the MAF, the shockwaves travel back thru the MAF to the BOV and this might provide temporary wrong readings, and if u placed the VTA BOV after the MAF, ur still back to square one of sending rich burn data to ur ECU....

if u wanna go for hotwire, get urself an MAF Translator, that's the product's name, there are available kits readily available for mitsu DSM models like ur 4G6x family!! so no problem watsoever....

remember as i said if not mistaken urs should be running karman too, means it's using hertz as reference, n hotwire is using voltage as reference, so the maf translator places a hotwire and translates the V into Hz signals in order for ur ECU to be able to read properly.....

for me i didn't take on this path coz no one in the US is familliar with my GSR 4G9x series and they just told me they can't guarantee whether it works or not, thus not worth me spending some USD 200 just for experiment am I?
 

kk9972

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kennethfong said:
sorry was caught up in a sudden long meeting, n now back....



other things that need to add or emphasize is that all MAF is not designed to be placed as a 'blow thru' setup, u can try but no guarantee..........however a Hotwire is more applicable for blow thru!! hotwire provides a constant heating to the wire exposed to the incoming air traffic, n when it cools down, it'll need more V to keep the element hot, thus this is how it tells the ECU based on this info.... I might probably need to take back my word on the 'perfect world' in the previous post, so if u placed the VTA BOV before the MAF, the shockwaves travel back thru the MAF to the BOV and this might provide temporary wrong readings, and if u placed the VTA BOV after the MAF, ur still back to square one of sending rich burn data to ur ECU....

if u wanna go for hotwire, get urself an MAF Translator, that's the product's name, there are available kits readily available for mitsu DSM models like ur 4G6x family!! so no problem watsoever....

remember as i said if not mistaken urs should be running karman too, means it's using hertz as reference, n hotwire is using voltage as reference, so the maf translator places a hotwire and translates the V into Hz signals in order for ur ECU to be able to read properly.....

for me i didn't take on this path coz no one in the US is familliar with my GSR 4G9x series and they just told me they can't guarantee whether it works or not, thus not worth me spending some USD 200 just for experiment am I?
Yo kenneth,
I'm quite clear about that now. I did search throught some web, found that many driver did meet the same problem. Not even for only Mitsu car, but other as well even for continental car.

In fact, blow-in is still the best setup for any turbo car. Anyway, I try to find out what is the air flow sensor type that my car is using now. Let you know while we meet. :_:
 

kennethfong

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kennethfong

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lancerboy,

listen to maxx, he's right, compressor surge will definitely shorten ur turbine's lifespan, remember turbine is designed to have a 1 way air direction and not both ways back n forth....

here's a link for u: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4bZHpT-L38
if u get this, that's wat maxx mentions upon....

kk,

sure dude, if ur good in electronics, u might probably wanna go for a DIY HKS VPC..... too bad i'm not
 

kk9972

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kennethfong said:
kk,

sure dude, if ur good in electronics, u might probably wanna go for a DIY HKS VPC..... too bad i'm not
Kenneth,
HKS VPC? :emoticon_U: If i can DIY, sure I will... haha

Any progress to your MSII?
 

kennethfong

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kennethfong

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kk,

ur in the technical field so let's share something, first get a oscilloscope to datalog all data on the hertz values from 500 rpm to max rpm, then get a GM hotwire n do the same thing of coz not using ur car this round but some other method, then get a voltage to hertz converter circuit / schematic, n with some experiment, u should be there....

but remember talking is easier than practical....

it's an ms I, the progress: waiting for the megastim to arrive should be by early next week sigh....
 

Lancerboy1

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BOV flutter

kennethfong said:
lancerboy,

listen to maxx, he's right, compressor surge will definitely shorten ur turbine's lifespan, remember turbine is designed to have a 1 way air direction and not both ways back n forth....

here's a link for u: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4bZHpT-L38
if u get this, that's wat maxx mentions upon....

kk,

sure dude, if ur good in electronics, u might probably wanna go for a DIY HKS VPC..... too bad i'm not
Hey all, my bov doesnt have any fluttering sound at all, i emailed Trust to enquire ans they say even when recirculate, it will produce some sound quite similiar to ssqv
 

kk9972

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Hi all,
From this thread, I can make a small conclusion from BOV that we all used.
Lancerboy is using Greddy Type-S BOV which it has re-circulation back to airflow.
Kenneth is using SSQV which has no re-circulation to airflow which same as mine using Blitz BOV.
Lancerboy won't get any problem like flutter sound and Kenneth also won't get flutter sound. And I do have that sound!
Lancerboy will definitely having a good BOV that prevent from compressor surge because having re-circulation.
Kenneth wont have compressor surge because VTA BOV will definitely release all the pressure. But without re-circulation, the engine will have stalling problem.
I will have compressor surge but without stalling problem because my BOV cannot open correctly at low boost and surge my compressor with anti-direction air flow and cause flutter sound.

Wow, I can see that Greddy Type-S BOV is the best for stock setting engine. Agree on that?
 

kennethfong

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kennethfong

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kk,

ur right i dun use a recirc kit, coz i intend to be a temporary rice boy at the moment (for now-LAR), coz once u add recirc, the sound won't be as loud, and some even went silent at low boost, so no point buying an RM 800 ssqv with less sound, defeats the purpose, but this is subjective, it depends on each individual...

however hks ssqv does have a recirculation kit available, some will go to the extent of making their own recirculation kit, it's just some piping and brackets to fit into the outlet airways of the BOV back to where it's suppose to be, put it short, to make a VTA BOV into a true plumback....
 

Lancerboy1

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kenneth, type S also have birdie sound when re-circulate. unless u keep it soft setting, but i think i got a problem in that.. when i boost, it seems the RPM raise very slowly. i think it leaking?? i am not too sure if it will leak if its too loose.. i try tightening it to a setting with no fluttering sound and it sound like stock bov, soundless. the losser i lossen, the more the birdie sound.
 

kk9972

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Better dont go to soft. Too soft, BOV will open too soon until leaking at certain boosting point.
 

Lancerboy1

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anyone using greddy type S, maybe can verify the ssqv-alike sound coming out from my type S (when re-circulate) is correct?