ATF cooler (CVT in particular) discussion

Izso

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Izso

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The picture above is basically the water/oil ATF cooler that comes stock with some of the older Nissan Sylphy / Teana cars. Basically the ATF flows in a U-shape within the canister and at the same time water flows outside to cool the ATF, water is courtesy of the coolant.

There are 2 types of coolers out in the market, stacked fin coolers and tube coolers (specifically Permacool since this is their trademarked technology).


(Generic stacked fin cooler)


(Permacool tube/fin cooler)

I'm contemplating installing an aftermarket ATF cooler but I have a few questions of concern.

1. The ATF oil flow is fast since the resistance is minimal. Prior to the canister is a paper filter so that already slows down the flow quite a lot. If I put either one of these aftermarket coolers, it will definitely slow down the flow of ATF. Will this be a problem in terms of gearbox performance?


(Picture taken from Nissan Sylphy Invision forum)

2. The Nissan website said this thing is a CVT Warmer, not cooler. Which confuses me even more. So how the heck does this CVT work?
CVT Oil Warmer | NISSAN | TECHNOLOGICAL DEVELOPMENT ACTIVITIES

Help?
 

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dekaiser

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dekaiser

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being using the tube type cooler(brand Hayden) for the past 6 years for my cvt GB...so far it worked well do make a difference when cooling the cvt fluid...i have removed the OEM fin type cooler due to it restrictive flow of nature. difference after using tube type :cvt fluid/oil can withstand long term high revving before getting burned...how to know when cvt fluid/oil getting burned? when there is slowdown sign coming out of the MFD and impose rev cut to the engine...hehehehe...only applicable for mitsu lancer....other brand i dunno...
 

gunnerzz

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cvt weakness apart from high speed driving is during slow moving traffic where the clutch is not fully engage.
this situation produces heat.

if u are worried abt flow then u can used the tube type.if not mistaken there is a spiral pattern inside the tube to increase efficiency.
not sure how much better or lesser the effect compared with normal stacked fin type.

based on my exp with cvt on exora is that imho it need a dedicated fan for better cooling.current setup is using the radiator fan and it sucks the whole rsdiator surface which lessen the airflow at the cooler.even with a dedicated fan,what temp should it run at and how to regulate that?

most people just put the cooler like normal oe setup in front of the radiator.i do believe it improve cooling slightly as the cooler is dedicated for the gb only.high speed cruising problem is solve as at high speed the air flow is fast.
 

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Izso

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being using the tube type cooler(brand Hayden) for the past 6 years for my cvt GB...so far it worked well do make a difference when cooling the cvt fluid...i have removed the OEM fin type cooler due to it restrictive flow of nature. difference after using tube type :cvt fluid/oil can withstand long term high revving before getting burned...how to know when cvt fluid/oil getting burned? when there is slowdown sign coming out of the MFD and impose rev cut to the engine...hehehehe...only applicable for mitsu lancer....other brand i dunno...
The Lancer has the stack fin type ATF cooler as default?

cvt weakness apart from high speed driving is during slow moving traffic where the clutch is not fully engage.
this situation produces heat.

if u are worried abt flow then u can used the tube type.if not mistaken there is a spiral pattern inside the tube to increase efficiency.
not sure how much better or lesser the effect compared with normal stacked fin type.

based on my exp with cvt on exora is that imho it need a dedicated fan for better cooling.current setup is using the radiator fan and it sucks the whole rsdiator surface which lessen the airflow at the cooler.even with a dedicated fan,what temp should it run at and how to regulate that?

most people just put the cooler like normal oe setup in front of the radiator.i do believe it improve cooling slightly as the cooler is dedicated for the gb only.high speed cruising problem is solve as at high speed the air flow is fast.
Drex had a Sylphy with my exact configuration (ie- stock) that had a stack ATF cooler installed which is why I'm so tempted to do this as well. But just thinking about it is giving me a headache.

Anyway, he measured the inlet and outlet hoses of the cooler with simulated air flow and there was a 10 degree difference which is a lot. I might do the Mightcarmod black paint job on my future ATF cooler as well.

Right now I'm just thinking how the flow will be affected if at all and how that translates into power loss or no effect on the car.
 

ixeo

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The benefit of having the ATF in the bottom of the radiator of stock cars...the ATF will heat up together with the coolant..
The cons of having the ATF in the bottom of the radiator of stock cars...if the radiator fails internally, habislah your gearbox. This was a common problem for Mercedes E-Class W211 for example.

I had Hayden 676 installed prior, I noticed from cold start the gearbox was clunkier.. wasn't as smooth.. now back to radiator.. didn't notice such problem.. that being said I will install Hayden 676 back in.

On the CVT fake lancer, I believe the ATF cooler is installed in series... haven't had time to check.

And if Hayden is good enough for TRD, who am I to argue?
TRD Transmission cooler vs Hayden - Toyota 4Runner Forum - Largest 4Runner Forum
 

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The benefit of having the ATF in the bottom of the radiator of stock cars...the ATF will heat up together with the coolant..
The cons of having the ATF in the bottom of the radiator of stock cars...if the radiator fails internally, habislah your gearbox. This was a common problem for Mercedes E-Class W211 for example.

I had Hayden 676 installed prior, I noticed from cold start the gearbox was clunkier.. wasn't as smooth.. now back to radiator.. didn't notice such problem.. that being said I will install Hayden 676 back in.

On the CVT fake lancer, I believe the ATF cooler is installed in series... haven't had time to check.

And if Hayden is good enough for TRD, who am I to argue?
TRD Transmission cooler vs Hayden - Toyota 4Runner Forum - Largest 4Runner Forum
Hmm.. interesting. I thought I read somewhere that Permacool had the copyrights for the tubular design, it looks like it's the internal 3-star cooling fins within the tube that's patented, not the tubular design since Hayden is exactly the same.



Question to you guys - why does an auto feel sluggish if it's overfilled?
 

vinvin

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I have a completely done modified sylphy CVT warmer + external 11"X9" plate cooling cooler for sale. Looking to swap and top up because going to change car. PM for more details.
 

ixeo

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ixeo

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Hmm.. interesting. I thought I read somewhere that Permacool had the copyrights for the tubular design, it looks like it's the internal 3-star cooling fins within the tube that's patented, not the tubular design since Hayden is exactly the same.



Question to you guys - why does an auto feel sluggish if it's overfilled?
the atf foams. foams don't circulate as well as liquid.
 

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I have a completely done modified sylphy CVT warmer + external 11"X9" plate cooling cooler for sale. Looking to swap and top up because going to change car. PM for more details.
Normally I'd delete advertisements... and before I do can you share a picture of the thing you did?


the atf foams. foams don't circulate as well as liquid.
What has foaming anything to do with sluggish gearbox response?
 

vinvin

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Normally I'd delete advertisements... and before I do can you share a picture of the thing you did?




What has foaming anything to do with sluggish gearbox response?
Mod, sorry for the wrong place to post. Just a coincidence seeing this thread today I logged in.

I shall keep you all update once I have snapped the photo.

Hints are:

1.) make the coolant pipe u-turn; mean by-passing the warmer and go back to radiator.

2.) cut the "mushroom" head of the CVT warmer so that you can find the in-out hole of cvt fluid inside the warmer.

3.) utilize the in-out hole to connect to external transmission cooler.

After this cooler add-on, no more overheating and sluggish gearbox response during continuous high rev cruising.
 

dekaiser

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dekaiser

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yes stock lancer got stack fin type installed at the left wheel arch of the car...air flow at the installed area quiet restrictive and you need to do some modification to channel more air into that area...but there is another problem if you channel more air there...the "daun pisang" wheel arch plastic cover won't be able to withstand high pressure wind...it will bend and hit the tyre...as a result, it will form a wide gaping hole which expose your fog lamp to water splash during heavy rain or run over a puddle of water...

i did once installed hayden DWAG CVT cooler...this model they provide external fan to cool the CVT fluid... pro: can cool air efficiently when stuck at traffic jam.... cons: consumed too much electrical power, made your alternator work in hyper mode...

to prevent jerking or slow response...it is advisable to replace your CVT fluid frequently if you are a heavy right footer driver type...when replacing the CVT fluid...insist on flushing the whole CVT system...this will ensure fresh fluid going through the whole system including the CVT pump... there is a dedicated CVT flushing machine available...it have multiple function and can be use while running the engine and engaging the D mode...
 
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ixeo

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Normally I'd delete advertisements... and before I do can you share a picture of the thing you did?




What has foaming anything to do with sluggish gearbox response?
Absolutely nothing???

If you overfill it, it foams lah.. :thefinger:
 

marv3

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Hello,

Is it necessary to have ATF cooler and Engine Oil Cooler? I mean, if you only planning to do minimal mods like exhaust system and remap?
 

ixeo

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ixeo

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Hello,

Is it necessary to have ATF cooler and Engine Oil Cooler? I mean, if you only planning to do minimal mods like exhaust system and remap?
Depends on your car? If you are driving a Perdana V6 model..then ATF cooler is compulsory.
 

ken yeang

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ken yeang

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oso, get the right size ATF cooler.....esp when the owner gonna drive the car hard,

or

the car is mainly driven in town with lots of stop-go driving..Our weather oso one extreme kind......
 

vr2turbo

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vr2turbo

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Hello,

Is it necessary to have ATF cooler and Engine Oil Cooler? I mean, if you only planning to do minimal mods like exhaust system and remap?
You will need the engine oil cooler if you turbo charge your car.....:driver:
 

stupidcar

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Hello,

Is it necessary to have ATF cooler and Engine Oil Cooler? I mean, if you only planning to do minimal mods like exhaust system and remap?
If you constant rev your car, engine oil is a must.
Same goes to AT Cooler if you are driving an AT.
I have actually read it somewhere that it is impossible to overcool an AT with the AT cooler just a few weeks ago. Before I always condemn installing one if you don't drive it spiritedly.