4g92p high RPM idling

thomadyeoh

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Jul 14, 2010
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Hi ZTH-ians

Changed my water hose due to leaking. Hose are from engine to throttle body. Choose to by pass so that the hot water wont flow into the throttle body.

In the process, I opt to clean the throttle body as I use no catch can and oil vapour ends up in my ram pipe, throttle body and manifold.

After all done, my engine idle at 1.5k rpm, with air-con 1.2k rpm. I already lock the idle screw to max for your information.

Tried to reduce timing by turning the distributor to solved the problem but the power sucks in the entire rpm range so I adjusted back to normal.

Any ideas on the cause and solution ? anything to do because of I by pass the coolant and cleanig the TB ?
TQ:banghead::banghead:
 

asrafhaslam

Junior Member
Jan 6, 2012
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Hi, try check all the assembly. Probably your gasket leak. Other way to test is try use a sponge, large enough to cover the intake. If the engine still run then it indicates its getting air from somewhere else. Are ur system using stepper motor?
 

vr2turbo

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Hi ZTH-ians

Changed my water hose due to leaking. Hose are from engine to throttle body. Choose to by pass so that the hot water wont flow into the throttle body.

Any ideas on the cause and solution ? anything to do because of I by pass the coolant and cleanig the TB ?
TQ:banghead::banghead:
Yes, I think because you by pass the coolant to TB. The coolant suppose to heat up that area.
By bypassing I think the cold start system still operating so you are running rich with higher RPM.
 

dking91

Known Member
Mar 26, 2013
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since u bypass the coolant to tb so the ISC read that the tmperature still low so the rpm will high and slowly decrease when tmperature increase... i hv seen my fren car that did not use ISC socket...maybe u can disconnect isc socket n see what happen...
 

thomadyeoh

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Jul 14, 2010
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Hi, it's the ori throttle body but I don't think the stepper motor gear is functioning as I fitted Toyota FICD to my engine to control the idle during aircon working time...

Would the cleaning spray destroy my TB gasket ? As it was normal before i Clean and by pass the coolant
Anyway thanks for the help...

---------- Post added at 03:38 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 03:35 PM ----------

Yes, I think because you by pass the coolant to TB. The coolant suppose to heat up that area.
By bypassing I think the cold start system still operating so you are running rich with higher RPM.
Some say the heated coolant is the culprit of destroy the fragile stepper motor plastic gear in mitsu/proton throttle body so when I change the leaking hose I by pass it.

---------- Post added at 03:41 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 03:38 PM ----------

since u bypass the coolant to tb so the ISC read that the tmperature still low so the rpm will high and slowly decrease when tmperature increase... i hv seen my fren car that did not use ISC socket...maybe u can disconnect isc socket n see what happen...
Can please show me the ISC socket..Just manage to found the TPC only...
Any harm unplug the ISC ?Will the ECU getting some error code or something ?
As my case is cold start actually stay at 1.3k but after driving and at optimum temp the rpm stay idle at 1.5k
 

vr2turbo

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Without the ISD on, I am afraid when idle with air con on, will be too low, but you can try and see....
 

^pomen_GTR^

7,000 RPM
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May 13, 2010
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Hi ZTH-ians

Changed my water hose due to leaking. Hose are from engine to throttle body. Choose to by pass so that the hot water wont flow into the throttle body.

In the process, I opt to clean the throttle body as I use no catch can and oil vapour ends up in my ram pipe, throttle body and manifold.

After all done, my engine idle at 1.5k rpm, with air-con 1.2k rpm. I already lock the idle screw to max for your information.

Tried to reduce timing by turning the distributor to solved the problem but the power sucks in the entire rpm range so I adjusted back to normal.

Any ideas on the cause and solution ? anything to do because of I by pass the coolant and cleanig the TB ?
TQ:banghead::banghead:

check tps position and TB cable stopper screw
 

thomadyeoh

Active Member
Senior Member
Thread starter
Jul 14, 2010
28
1
503
Kuala Lumpur
Without the ISD on, I am afraid when idle with air con on, will be too low, but you can try and see....
Found the ISC and unplugged it. No help also but I already have my FICD.

---------- Post added at 08:07 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 08:02 PM ----------

check tps position and TB cable stopper screw
I did not alter anything on the throttle body just by pass the coolant and clean it with throttle cleaner.
This happen after I finish the process. TPS is in original place
BTW will give it a try and see since foreman all conclude my TB kong and the only thing can do is to retard the timing which I very reluctant to do cause no power at all when accelerating.

Thanks all of you trying to help :adore:
 

k0pi

Known Member
Jun 19, 2011
105
28
528
Kota Bharu
thomadyeoh,

After all done, my engine idle at 1.5k rpm, with air-con 1.2k rpm. I already lock the idle screw to max for your information.
DIY Option : take off the throttle body from the intake plenum, you could see a hole in the mouth of the TB, at the bottom part.... SEAL IT. That's where your throttle body is leaking air into the intake causing high RPM because your ISC unit detect low heat and kept the leak valve open. Can stuff it with JB-Weld compound (or any other compound that hardens up like cement and able to withstand high vacuum pressure, or face the bugger being sucked into the engine).

WHY : The ISC unit at the bottom of the TB, is a 'heat-by-water derived & electronic controlled choke', which it has 2 way of working.

1. Cold engine choke - ISC sensor detects water temp, if too cold > engage gear to open air leak valve and allow air to enter the hole at the mouth of the TB and out into the intake plenum from a hole behind the TB's butterfly.

2. A/Cond Compressor Drag vs Engine Rev Control - this is another job of the ISC. The temp sensor inside the a/c blower system in the car, being connected to the aircond compressor and the ISC together. Air cond compressor when it engages its clutch (ON), there's a significant amount of torque drag it will give to the engine causing the engine to be heavier and works slower... so, to counter this, the engine has to be revved up abit, and this happens when the temp sensor at the a/c blower inside the car detects more cooling need to be done to get the desired temperature. The temp sensor also sends a signal to the ISC unit to leak some air from the TB into the intake plenum, and that is through the small hole at the bottom of the TB's mouth where the air flows through the ISC's valve.
If the a/c temp sensor sense the cooling temp has reached the desired temperature, it will shut off the a/c compressor and sends a signal to the ISC to close the valve. It's the same concept as the Toyota's FICD. AC compressor clicks on, FCD opens valve to leak air into the plenum, the AC compressor off, it shuts the valve.

From my POV, if you experienced this problem after removing the water hose, then just plug it back. it may also indicate your ISC, while maybe cacat abit, but still working to give that smooth idle.

Other answers : It's okay to unplug the ISC socket and run around. It doesn't make any effect to the car if you're not using ISC anymore and have alternative way to control the engine's idle during cold start and turned on aircond. I've ran my 92p for many years without using ISC because using Mivec TB (stepper motor) and used Toyota FICD. Just cold start seemed to be a bit problem because I had to manually rev the engine to warm up, or it'll just die.


What I wish : (read with Jeremy Clarkson's voice)
Someone could invent a standalone ISC unit, with adjustable leak control valve, that no need to plug at the throttle body, so people who use aftermarket tempayan throttle body, fat plenum, hi-cams, that couldn't be plug with the stock ISC, could sleep happy, because they could still use an aircond in the car! Wonder why petrolheads with agressive cams that has low vacuum stroke due to the intake valve opens too long below 1200rpm, couldn't just keep their AC comfort while idling below 1200rpm instead of at least 1500rpm! Hammer please!

Hey, I've came to know Works Eng. did come out with something called Air Control Valve... is that it?
 
Last edited:

thomadyeoh

Active Member
Senior Member
Thread starter
Jul 14, 2010
28
1
503
Kuala Lumpur
thomadyeoh,



DIY Option : take off the throttle body from the intake plenum, you could see a hole in the mouth of the TB, at the bottom part.... SEAL IT. That's where your throttle body is leaking air into the intake causing high RPM because your ISC unit detect low heat and kept the leak valve open. Can stuff it with JB-Weld compound (or any other compound that hardens up like cement and able to withstand high vacuum pressure, or face the bugger being sucked into the engine).

WHY : The ISC unit at the bottom of the TB, is a 'heat-by-water derived & electronic controlled choke', which it has 2 way of working.

1. Cold engine choke - ISC sensor detects water temp, if too cold > engage gear to open air leak valve and allow air to enter the hole at the mouth of the TB and out into the intake plenum from a hole behind the TB's butterfly.

2. A/Cond Compressor Drag vs Engine Rev Control - this is another job of the ISC. The temp sensor inside the a/c blower system in the car, being connected to the aircond compressor and the ISC together. Air cond compressor when it engages its clutch (ON), there's a significant amount of torque drag it will give to the engine causing the engine to be heavier and works slower... so, to counter this, the engine has to be revved up abit, and this happens when the temp sensor at the a/c blower inside the car detects more cooling need to be done to get the desired temperature. The temp sensor also sends a signal to the ISC unit to leak some air from the TB into the intake plenum, and that is through the small hole at the bottom of the TB's mouth where the air flows through the ISC's valve.
If the a/c temp sensor sense the cooling temp has reached the desired temperature, it will shut off the a/c compressor and sends a signal to the ISC to close the valve. It's the same concept as the Toyota's FICD. AC compressor clicks on, FCD opens valve to leak air into the plenum, the AC compressor off, it shuts the valve.

From my POV, if you experienced this problem after removing the water hose, then just plug it back. it may also indicate your ISC, while maybe cacat abit, but still working to give that smooth idle.

Other answers : It's okay to unplug the ISC socket and run around. It doesn't make any effect to the car if you're not using ISC anymore and have alternative way to control the engine's idle during cold start and turned on aircond. I've ran my 92p for many years without using ISC because using Mivec TB (stepper motor) and used Toyota FICD. Just cold start seemed to be a bit problem because I had to manually rev the engine to warm up, or it'll just die.


What I wish : (read with Jeremy Clarkson's voice)
Someone could invent a standalone ISC unit, with adjustable leak control valve, that no need to plug at the throttle body, so people who use aftermarket tempayan throttle body, fat plenum, hi-cams, that couldn't be plug with the stock ISC, could sleep happy, because they could still use an aircond in the car! Wonder why petrolheads with agressive cams that has low vacuum stroke due to the intake valve opens too long below 1200rpm, couldn't just keep their AC comfort while idling below 1200rpm instead of at least 1500rpm! Hammer please!

Hey, I've came to know Works Eng. did come out with something called Air Control Valve... is that it?
Hi k0pi

thanks for sharing...
do let me ask even I unplugged the ISC to shut off the stepper motor from working, the idle hole still open ?

yup, my stepper motor still working previously but the gear suspected melted or what so the idle control cacat thats's why i install FICD from toyota but also cacat dy after long use.:rofl:
 

k0pi

Known Member
Jun 19, 2011
105
28
528
Kota Bharu
Hi k0pi

thanks for sharing...
do let me ask even I unplugged the ISC to shut off the stepper motor from working, the idle hole still open ?

yup, my stepper motor still working previously but the gear suspected melted or what so the idle control cacat thats's why i install FICD from toyota but also cacat dy after long use.:rofl:
It may stuck open when the gear inside bust and jammed.
 

k0pi

Known Member
Jun 19, 2011
105
28
528
Kota Bharu
either that, and suffer the setback of having to manually warm up your engine at cold start or while on A/C... or this :

Local Recond TB : RM240 (doable, I'll give it 2-3yrs of lifespan)
China remanufactured TB : RM180 (usually bust after 6mths / 20,000km)
Used original TB : RM280 (recommended, can find part runners selling it in Mudah.my)
New AMP TB : RM850 (48mm) / RM980 (54mm - Perdana SEi) (if you have the money)

Taiwan ISC servo : RM200 (hard to find since 2011, before that, easy... wonder what happen)
OEM Proton ISC servo : RM800+ (1 unit of 4G15/4G92p/93p TB = RM1200... i fainted)
AMP servo : ??? heard its about RM300-ish... can buy at Proton Parts Shop.

---------- Post added at 01:51 AM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 01:50 AM ----------

Like the one from the kembara use to control idling
issit mechanical, or got electronic control??... seems like getting unusually late reply from Works facebook admin...
 

vr2turbo

((( God Level 30,000 RPM )))
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May 11, 2010
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issit mechanical, or got electronic control??... seems like getting unusually late reply from Works facebook admin...
Can manually adjust...:driver:

---------- Post added at 12:56 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 12:56 PM ----------

looks like I am doomed.
reroute the coolant back to TB but still idles at 1.3k rpm..
need sometimes to troubleshoot mysle fand maybe some DIY need to be done.:banghead:
Try fitting back the coolant hose to TB and try....:smokin:
 

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