4g13 turbo tuning

[140dB]

yo guys,

my turbo kit is now in my car

year 2000 satria 1.3 mmc ecu. pwrzone cam. stock cr (head never off the block)

im using emanage c/w ignition, injector, sub injector and map(airflow) sensor wiring.
injectors, fuel reg and fuel pump are all stock, sub inj is gsr 390cc. i put an 8mm brass tee at the rubber hose between fuel filter and rail for fuel tap.

low boosting abt 0.2-3 bar for now, i am currently running lean at 0.2-3bar@6krpm. so have to be careful. for now.

i have tried upping drastically the duty cycle for both sub injector and additional injector but still not much appreciable difference in a/f ratio.

the emanage maps used are bc-boost [email protected], ignition, airflow/map, additional injector map, sub injector.

like say in the tuning point 45%tps@[email protected], a/f is nice, bout 0.85. Duty cycle for both add inj and sub inj is about say 15% and 10% respectively. Then when it gets to 50%tps@6000, a/f stays at 0.94 even wif duty cycles of 50% for both add inj and sub inj. (pls note % tps is actually a map value cos i replaced the tps input wif a map sensor, 0bar=40%tps).


i am planning to change the fuel reg to aftermarket type, hopefully to solve the problem. and also change the scale on the tuning map in emanage to target in the problem area.

any ideas guys? is the stock fuel pump up to par?

TIA

 

[Joeker]

Very interesting project.

Wats your goal? I mean in terms of horsepower?

I think you need bigger capa. fuel pump and a FPR.

Wat system are you using to monitor A/F? Innovate? Motec?

 

[140dB]

yes yes. very interesting indeed mr moderator.

i was actually hoping to get 130hp,140nm trq @0.5 bar for a stock 1.3 head n block

u think the stock pump is too weak? i am getting an adj f reg soon to try 1st.

i was wondering if the brass tee i inserted before the main injectors is too small. the internal dia is only bout 4-5mm. but then again fuel lines arent that big. or my fuel filter is jam. cos never change for 5-6 years liao.

maybe bigger injectors would do the trick. but i want to stay wif my current injectors if possible, cos the idle is bad as it is already.

afr is monitored on dyno dynamics bosch sensor.

 

[flushafteruse]

using what turbine bro??

 

[140dB]

mitsubishi tf035-12t.

its a diesel turbine used in mitsu 2.5l turbodiesels.

on this 1.3 the boost starts to buildup at 2800-3000rpm. kinda late. must be the front mount 'cooler :-)
i hope things will get better wif a 1.5 block.

 

[flushafteruse]

issit from pajero turbodiesel???

 

[140dB]

this turbo is found on many 2.5 turbodiesel mitsubishi vehicles.

i found the same model# at turbo tong but different shape etc etc. so i guess they use the same model designation for many generation of this turbo.

i bought this off the web. check out www.jawarehouse.com
ships from taiwan. u can try bargain wif the fella a bit. he cool.

cheers

 

[Joeker]

C.l and S.I engines have different requirements.

I think the turbo are nonetheless also different in nature.

CI fuel requires precondition temperature to expedite combustion. I believe the turbo of a CI engine has a play in that.

If it does, the flow characteristic of a CI turbo will be a demerit in SI application

Another example is using a "Scania" intercooler from a CI engine on an SI engine.

THose who have used a Scania Intercooler will know for a fact that despite its humongus size, it does not yield the cooling efficiency as compared to an even smaller SI engine intercooler.

Anyway, my point is S.I and CI turbo and intercoolers are different

 

[Joeker]

mitsubishi tf035-12t.

its a diesel turbine used in mitsu 2.5l turbodiesels.

on this 1.3 the boost starts to buildup at 2800-3000rpm. kinda late. must be the front mount 'cooler :-)
i hope things will get better wif a 1.5 block.

Diesel engines run on compression as hi as 30:1 and the 2.5 CI block beelches out much more volume of exhaust gas than your 1.3 block.

I think you could have been better off with a Mitsu td025 or a Garrett T25.

And the FMIC is not doing you any good at 0.3 bar unless you are one of those TOO FURIOUS and not TOO FAST.

 

[140dB]

haha.
u a funny moderator arent you.

u not quite right abt the fmic useless for 0.3 bar. even at this low boost level, a coastal highway drive wif lots of ups n downs (jb-desaru), lorry traffic, 1 lane hiway and boosting here n there. after stopping for food i felt my cooler inlets kinda hot, and the outlets cool. and im not running any ignition retard. if i could cure my fuelling problem i would definitely boost higher.

mitsu td025? nah. too small. one of the aims of my project is to get a turbo that would be good for 1.3 and 1.5. the boost must able to maintain 0.7 bar till 6500rpm or 7k at least.

garett t25 from the 4g63t us models? isnt that the td05 equivalent? now thats way too big bradder.

my turbo, when compared to a td04 has two distinct differences. the exhaust turbine inlet is smaller than td04. the outlet is the same. the exhaust blades on my turbo is denser (more compact). the exhaust housing is slightly smaller on my turbo too. compressor is almost same, mine having slightly bigger housing but wheels looks same size, twin blade.

there is also another variant of this turbo, the tf035-10t. that has the same exhaust but smaller compressor. that would be faster spool up, but i elected to go wif the bigger turbo in the end..

let me know more about your si ci turbo and intercooler debate. i agree wif the intercooler fr diesel lorrys not so good (have u seen the very functional alu coolers on todays small 2.5l turbo diesel trucks?) but tell me how different can the turbo be. hehe.


there is one guy in the workshop doing a similar conversion to mine, but his 1.5 and using a fresh rebuilt td04. we'll see the boost response.

cheers

 

[140dB]

ok little update guys,

td04 on 4g15 0.46bar full boost at 3300rpm

tf035-12t diesel turbine on 4g13 0.6bar full boost at 3500rpm

 

[epithet]

140dB, sound like you know your shit. I will keep listening with ears intent. I wouldn't mind experimenting along your way. about turbo's being turbos and Intercoolers being intercoolers, I have to agree. I had a mate who used water injection on his uni project on some old nissan six only to find Tommi Makinnen having the same innovation on the Ralliart cars some years later. funny that.

 

[epithet]

My two sen worth: CI turbo's are meant to run at lower revs compared to SI turbo's so i think that the exhaust volume negates each other (I think only...not fact). Also Si engines rev harder and is about horsepower, whereas CI is about low down and fuel efficiency. So the Intercoolers also not trying to take out a lot of heat. So SI intercooler is more appropriate for our Satria 1.3 but using CI turbo (especially this one) should be ok and also easy spare parts.

 

[jee_square]

yes yes. very interesting indeed mr moderator.

i was actually hoping to get 130hp,140nm trq @0.5 bar for a stock 1.3 head n block

u think the stock pump is too weak? i am getting an adj f reg soon to try 1st.

i was wondering if the brass tee i inserted before the main injectors is too small. the internal dia is only bout 4-5mm. but then again fuel lines arent that big. or my fuel filter is jam. cos never change for 5-6 years liao.

maybe bigger injectors would do the trick. but i want to stay wif my current injectors if possible, cos the idle is bad as it is already.

afr is monitored on dyno dynamics bosch sensor.

I used to B.O.T. my 1.3 also before... Ori fuel mapping sumore... Dynoed and managed to get 144nm torque... But i did not get as much horsies that i wanted... I only get up to 80bhps... My project ends halfway, coz got not enuff money to buy e-manage.... sad lor... So keep up the good work bro! I remembered ur PM me once or twice few monhts back bout ur project rite?

 

[140dB]

hi jee square,

i remember u. dat time i was so lost in so into this project that i was emailing everybody i could find more info.

But quite dissatsfied, cos not many people willing to share and also a lot of really stupid mofos trying to discourage me. saying shit bout the 4g13. yes its a shit engine made by shit people. but even if u got evo, there is still someone wif more powerful engine. then can i say evo is a shit engine cos a chevy big block 6.0 eats and shits out evos for breakfast, lunch and dinner. ok enuff of my rant for now.

emanage i bought for rm700 second hand from some bloke in this forum. u can try looking around for a nice 1. i think the price dropping wif the ultimate out now.

for fuelling i used b16 injectors detuned by emanage. the emanage really works well for detuning larger injectors on my car. i am working on a very simple circuit to make the ecu go richer. not that im not getting enuff fuel now, at wot, when the ecu goes open loop map, all is ok, richer than i would like. but part throttle while boosting , the ecu is closed loop. still running a bit lean. anyways the circuit revolves around a pressure switch that switches a relay upon boost. the relay will intercept the o2 sensor to trick the ecu to enrich a little more...i project the cost to be below rm50. will let u know if it works. maybe, bot can be much cheaper wif this simple 'tuning'......

epithet,

thanks for the kind words. i only know my car's shit. cos i do almost all the mods myself. i suggest u get your hands dirty and get to know your car better to appreciate all this modding.

i did not have anyone in this forum guiding me or giving me useful advise when i started off this project. so if u need any mo info, pls pm. i would be glad to help.

also, disregard all those idiots that give off negative vibes wif no intention to help. usually these are the really dumb ones.

cheers