The ins and outs of chassis strengthening

Discussion in 'The Malaysian Skyline Club' started by [PIMPIN], Aug 2, 2011.

  1. [PIMPIN]

    [PIMPIN] Senior Member
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    Yeah, he even had to defend the costs of installing them initially on GTROC forums. I guess it must really make a difference though. Definitely not high on my list of priorities though. :burnout:
     
  2. Dr.D

    Dr.D Senior Member
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    well, its not how rigids ur chassis, its where the rigid parts of the chassis.. theres always a need of chssis flex to a certain amount , too rigid will strain the suspension and cause geometry of the suspension to move to much. thus loosing traction and control. need to study the simulation of certain chassis design on the CAD and improvise where to strengthen ..

    keta pasar needs to send chickss.. i mean chicken to mamak goh tong to be marinated for tandoori.. so need spot welding
     
  3. LittleWhiteWagon

    LittleWhiteWagon Senior Member
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    Dude manufacturers do, RX8 subframe, most peugeots, hell even the old pulsar GTI-R was foamed from the factory.

    My wagon has been foamed, best mod besides coilovers. The weaker the chassis the better the results with foam.

    It also made the car slightly quieter, my parents noticed it before I did ahaha :biggrin:

    ---------- Post added at 02:34 AM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 02:23 AM ----------


    Haha you're really talking like as if you know what it is huh?

    The foam expands and becomes rigid, its like cement filling up a pipe in the middle. Explain to me how does something solid that fills up an empty area not work? :stupid:

    Personally I think its more overall complete than bars, since i've DONE IT I can actually comment, unlike you who just oOo stuff that you've never tried.

    Dont lah be narrow minded :biggrin: . Go learn science on how the foam expands, turns into a different substance once its fully cured then you can oOo on it.

    It quietens the car not as much as sound deadening duh, but it helps muffle resonance from empty parts of the chassis. Sound cant get through a solid area as easy as an empty area. HOWEVER profoam, I wonder whether that works. I personally am using autofoam + a UR strut bar so I can comment on that only ATM.

    Next up would be custom rigid collars :proud: . I'd like to see whether its possible to replicate them here in Msia.

    ---------- Post added at 02:41 AM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 02:34 AM ----------

    C-tech, they use aluminium instead of steel. What do you mean Do-Luck can tell you where the mounting points are? Ultra Racing already mentioned they use powdercoated steel for their bars actually.

    ---------- Post added at 03:01 AM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 02:41 AM ----------

    Okay since everyone is sharing i'd like to share on FOAMING.

    In a nutshell from what I know, the foam isnt like, whipped cream soft flismy foam, they only call it foam BECAUSE when its applied it oozes out, like foam hence the name. It's actually a 2 part liquid, when combined it cures at a very fast rate, expands then become really really hard.

    I cant prove it to you here on a forum where we all just type, whoever wants living proof of how it works should visit me sometime and have a ride hahaha, either that or go see KLAuto's boss who is the official dealer for autofoam here in KL. He has a 500ml coke bottle filled with that stuff and it can take my weight. Im 76kg just FYI. However it can absorb energy when pressed, kinda like a really really hard sponge. But when used in bulk its very very strong and can retain a lot of energy within.

    The idea behind it is very simple, a monocoque chassis has chassis rails throughout the car and they're all hollow. None of them have water/drain channels, or wiring, so basically its just empty places where noise can echo and where metal can fatigue. On older cars like mine the A pillar houses the antenna wire and I forgot about that when I foamed my wagon. The old antenna on the A pillar broke off, but the wiring is stuck in there forever because of the foam. Anyway back to rigidity!

    Its even worse on cars like mine, cause I drive a WAGON with the hatch the size of midvalley. Everybody knows, bigger area with a hole = more flexing. To make matters 'better' my wagon has been hit in the rear by a jeep cherokee with a bloody bullbar, so that makes it even weaker. It wasnt a small accident either, think long blind corner + heavy downpour + speeding jeep + no abs. The accident was offset to the left of my trunk and the impact was so hard, I ended up slamming into the car infront of me as well. So after repairing the car I found out about autofoam. Ended up going all the way to KL to get the chassis foamed hoping to stiffen the car up with this 'magic foam which is gimmicky'.

    Autofoam has 2 foams. A purple one, and a yellowish one. No this isnt art class, the purple foam is EXTREMLY solid. From what was said by KLAuto's boss, the purple one is really meant for stiffening, so it was only used on small portions of the chassis where its needed the most, the yellow one was injected everywhere else, A-D pillar, front to rear chassis rails and side to side.

    Mmm after letting it cure it actually makes the car feel more solid, rather than stiff. Because its not like metal bars that tie down a certain area, it just fills out empty areas making that feel less hollow. I'd say the car feels more SOLID and less flimsy front to back, side to side.

    Lastly the foam is fireproof, waterproof, and extremely light. He poured petrol into the 500ml bottle I mentioned earlier, lit it on fire and it just extinguished. Plus its fills out EVERYTHING in the bottle, theres literally nowhere for the liquid petrol to go but just at the top. It was kinda weird smelling burning plastic... but thats not the point.

    The only downside to this i'd say is that if you're a hardcore racer, go get a rollcage first. This works VERY well on cars like mine (accident damaged, weak hatchbacks). If you have a 2011 GTR and put foam and say you cant feel the difference dont blame me, I doubt my car has the structual rigidity of even a satria neo now heh.

    The strutbrace works well too, my wagon has no power steering. The steering feedback feels slightly better and it self-centers easier.

    Thanks for your time, I hope that what i've said helps give a clearer view of how foaming is compared to the more normal chassis stiffening procedures. Its been 3 years now since the wagon has been hit, and 2 years since i've foamed it. I have 100% no regrets getting it foamed and if I have enough money, i'd foam every old car I ever get.

    However im still skeptical on newer cars, i'd like to hear if any forumer has done it on a more modern/sportier car? Maybe a GTR or Evo :hmmmm: Anyways bottom line that stuff works for me. I'll be constantly popping up here and there to defend it ahaha :biggrin:
     
    #23 LittleWhiteWagon, Aug 5, 2011
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2011
  4. [PIMPIN]

    [PIMPIN] Senior Member
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    I don't know what you are talking about dude. Having read and re-read that paragraph you wrote, every single sentence has nothing to do with the one before it.
     
  5. ^pomen_GTR^

    ^pomen_GTR^ Senior Member
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    well if not mistaken jun got their own foam product...


    as well as HKS did on their gtr32 if not mistaken..


    plus if u watch turbo channel 734 astro back then where got Ultimate tuner battle with XS engineering did put foam inside their gtr32 battle car....


    p/s:if we watch youtube in american touge 3, where that gtr dare to challenge the original japan mines gtr34 flied all the way to us....(but ended up that gtr32 block cracked and that battle didn't happen)


    after all..i'd say for street car...foam job was absalutely a better option compared to bolt-on cage since there was risk of JPJ/traffic police arrest on your car.... :adore:
     
  6. cosmicgate

    cosmicgate Senior Member
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    My car is a road warrior, and a taboo to the tracks. It has about 600 ponies only when on a straight clear road. I'm also old and cold blooded, boosting in the corner is forbidden above all. Some people call me uncle for driving like one

    Do I need chasis straightening?
     
  7. Tan Kin Sung

    Tan Kin Sung From Facebook

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    It actually depends on how much power you have and weather your car can take it or not. Few example like an Evo and a normal lancer body rigity is totally two different thing. Even the Nismo Z tune GTR-34 they reinforce the wheel panel near the strut mounting with carbon fiber to make the car more solid. Some like the famous CTR have more spot welding on the car for stiffness. It more of a rocket science of giving the car the right balance of rigity and power. Too stiff no Hp makes you feel like your engine can't keep up with the chassis. Too much power chassic not stiff you feel like you are driving a out of control rocket. So my point is a car is a very complex tool. Car balance is very very important. As what Tsuchiya always say balance. For me I porsonally like my car to be stiff like the CTR. First week driving a stiff car make me feel like vomitting in the middle of the highway but after a while other cars handle like s**t and a stiff car handle like a dream.
     
  8. owtaman

    owtaman Senior Member
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    I have experienced Autofoam in my previous car a 1995 Perdana(Manual) couple years ago, I will try to leave some points here to share.

    0. I remember the Autofoam package I installed was a STD package which does not fill up the entire chassis but injected into the hollow area under the two side steps and the boot area, I cannot remember if the foam was also injected in the horizontal chassis under the passengers though. But for sure not inside the A pillar(might cause rust due to collecting of rain water because this section could block the drain channel), Not injected inside B nor C pillar also.

    One thing to note is the mixture, the KL Auto's boss explained to me that the 'bubbles' size can give different effect to the stiffness, smaller bubble(high density) will make the chassis very stiff thus more suitable for racing/track use, where bigger bubble(lower density) is more suitable for street use. He also said that the correct mixture is very important and he has improved his formula through years of experience to cater for appropriate purpose/needs.

    1. I have the opportunity to confirm the Autofoam effect because my friend owns a Perdana v6 which has the same chassis. He actually bought the car a few months later after I borrowed my Autofoam filled Perdana to him. But No he did not install Autofoam in his Perdana even until now, as he did not want to get this level of stiffness, but nevertheless he appreciated the stability he experienced in my car and he confirmed that there is a notable difference in terms of handling if compare with his Perdana v6. The difference can be felt even on NKVE highway which you don’t really steer that much, especially on long high speed curve, I believe this is due to the reduction of flex in the area between the front wheels and the rear wheels, which reduce the 'bounces' flex at the chassis and let the suspension do its job better.

    2. One thing to note is that it seems the chassis would get stiffer as time passed by(or is it because I was getting older ?), I was using hydraulic shocks with 17 inch rim wearing Japan tires at the start and it was like perfectly tuned, later I switched to Gas shocks with Korean Kumho tires and I started to complaint about the stiffness, in the end I remove the 17 inch rims and go back to 16 inch for better damping on bad condition road(with the Gas shocks). I can't give anything conclusive here but at least I can suggest to avoid Gas shocks if you plan to stiffen up your chassis via foam for street use.

    3. On the sound proofing, yes it makes a difference(less resonance) but later on you will hear something else, because when some noises are blocked, you will hear other new noises, such as the wind noise at high speed which before this was hide under the engine/exhaust noise.

    4. When you slam the doors(as most of us like to do when testing new cars at show room), you will feel the solidness as though you are closing the door of an European car.


    So now, should I do it on my ECR33 ? This car should have a more stiffer chassis among R32 to R34 but its more than 15 years old now.. would it be fatigue now and time for some 'reinforcement' ?

    Some reviews found via Google.
    Autoworld Blog
    Car Preventive Maintenance: After 15 Days of Autofoam
    Autofoam Review
     
    #28 owtaman, Aug 5, 2011
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2011
  9. Veloc

    Veloc Senior Member
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    :congrats: :congrats: :congrats: :congrats: :congrats: :congrats: :congrats:

    Why do you get so worked up over what I've said? Please respect people's opinion. It's a forum and everyone got the rights to share. I even remembered when in one post, you stated that turbo = stupid power. Chose the right words please. You seriously got an attitude problem How old are you?
    Let me address all your accusations one by one...

    Well my friend, if you read properly, what I said was "For those foam stuff... I haven't try these, but personally I think...". Well, Did I admit that I haven't try it? Did I say that I'm sure it's rubbish? Do you notice the word "think" and "haven't try". In english, think refers to an opinion/thought. If I have tried it, I would use the phrase "from my experience" instead. And I was honest to admit that I didn't try it, didn't i?

    Friend, I know how it fills up a space and cures there. It's even in their website. But the thing is, even if it cures, it is "porous". Not solid. There's a big difference between porous and solid. If you chassis is made of porous metal, you'll die. If your car sofa is made of solid stuff, you butt will crack.

    Bro, I am a scientist and I work for the Royal Society as well as the local university in my place. Please google it if you want to know more about royal society. But still, I might not be that clever. But even so, don't call me narrow minded la... Scientist also learning new stuff everyday...

    As I said before, his is a forum. Every can share freely whether it is an "opinion", "experience" or "lies". Early in my post, I already stated that the foam thing is merely my "opinion", not experience.

    So why you need to say "I personally am using autofoam + a UR strut bar so I can comment on that only ATM."

    zzz...

    ---------- Post added at 06:51 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 06:48 PM ----------

    Adeh...
     
  10. [H] [K] [S]

    [H] [K] [S] Senior Member
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    Chill guys chill!!!
     
  11. Veloc

    Veloc Senior Member
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    NO manners bha... Ish... So not malaysian... "Budi bahasa budaya kita".
     
  12. [PIMPIN]

    [PIMPIN] Senior Member
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    Well this is something we don't see everyday in our neck of the woods.
     
  13. Temujin

    Temujin Senior Member
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    [​IMG]

    I thought butt crack is normal? Bwahahahahahahaha.. Can't help ROFL :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

    What lar u guys.. pasal foam also wanna flame each other.. :hmmmm:
     
  14. Veloc

    Veloc Senior Member
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    AHAHAHAHA!!!! What a picture!!!

    But memang got crack... But if sofa made of solid material, the crack will spread all over :biggrin:

    Not flame la... Just addressing his accusations on me ma... He go call me stupid for nothing pulak...
     
  15. DarkChild

    DarkChild Senior Member
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    Still thinking about it. :biggrin:

    Actually, I've made an inquiry, it's not that bad la the price...
     
  16. fastlearner

    fastlearner 5 Year | Silver

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    The problem about autofoam is always their "fans". Either they dont understand everyones concerns or theyre just being that - "fans" - blindly follows whatever the KL Auto boss says. The main issue about autofoam is not about the stiffness of the chassis after being foamed, everybody knows that GENERALLY the more stiffer the chassis the better. The MAIN concern is about the crumple zone design which will be affected by injecting the foam. So pls discuss intelligently guys! :banghead:
     
  17. LittleWhiteWagon

    LittleWhiteWagon Senior Member
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    Haha okay lah like I said im kinda defensive towards things that work and people say they dont, my sincerest apologies I didnt mean to start a flaming thread. I'll keep quiet and just read :adore:. Uhh. And for the record again, my choice of words doesnt mean i've got an attitude problem. If you're talking about me starting to flame a thread, then yes I apologise. Sorry.

    ---------- Post added at 05:19 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 05:15 PM ----------

    Thats true come to think of it, but if I ever get into a crash so badly my whole crumple zone gets crushed I think i'll be throwing the car away :bawling:
     
    #37 LittleWhiteWagon, Aug 6, 2011
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2011
  18. Veloc

    Veloc Senior Member
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    No problems bro... Cheers...
     
  19. LittleWhiteWagon

    LittleWhiteWagon Senior Member
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    OHHH. Okay I re-read it again now I see my mistake :banghead: . Sorry haha :burnout:
     
  20. tharsan

    tharsan Senior Member
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    foams and strut bars works in different ways, meaning the foam cant work at place that bars can provide strengthening and vice versa.. foam works internally, bars works externally on a chassis..

    2 different things for one purpose; chassis strengthening.. cant compare them both as both are different ways of achieving chassis strengthening..
     

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