National Automotive Policy 2009 Review Results

[mizunori77]

Guys seems like the gov backed down for the moment. Now do we fight for the halfcut shops or not? We fought for our old cars and seems like a temporary victory. As i saw and heard in TV the gov is merely stopping it so they can "review" the system again. So 1 year is won. What about the next year and thereafter? I'm fighting for this years. And saving the halfcut shops is a 50/50 for me. How about you guys?

this depends on how 'hard' the customs people fight this. there is already a drop in imported goods and this means less revenue from import taxes. if the govt really clamp down on imported used parts, they will lose another revenue stream. it is common practice to find an alternative source of income before discontinuing an existing revenue stream. there isn't any alternative for the customs dept now to fill that gap in revenue.

as a consumer, i will also want those chop shops to remain. it will be very painful to me to pay full price for new parts. this means we will have even lesser disposable income after we minus off car maintenance spending. if we use credit card, we have to pay the RM 50 taxes on top of the interest that the banks charge us. either way, we are screwed.

 

[csl]

By right I should not join this bashing thread. Bash because something that has conflict of interest. I'm the very minority but doesn't mean small voice is wrong. Example like a lot of people said Mr. Kwek forced to let go the Malaysia sugar industry but how many will think that is actually a strategic for getting more cash flow in order to eat some USA company while there is still a chance?

Sad not because of people cannot see the big picture. But because of the selfish culture.

---------- Post added at 10:40 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:35 AM ----------

Most people only can lift thing up but cannot put it down. The rather to die but won't let go the car attitude, if can use on work, sure can become somebody.

Again, as you are so smart, don't forget wtf you had said. It won't take too long to know the result.

 

[boyzone]

Guys & csl,

Both of yours all have own point.
There is no correct or wrong over here, is just depand how do u treat this issue.
For example :
Perform inspection for old car is good for us, but....
before that G have to makesure that Puspakom have enough capacity to support.
Of coz, all the checking from puspakom have to perform their work properly ( no kopi duit ).
Brake system, all mech part have oil leaking or what... bla..bla
Flexible time to perform checking before paying the road tax, possible that if have online system to make the appointment time to perform inspection...etc.
Dun tell me kampung ppl will facing problem as I believe insurans ppl will help them
If Puspakom can provide FOC to us will be added advantage.
If not, deduct from road tax will be fair enough too.

However, this rule is drop.

Ok, let's talk about recon / chop shop spare parts.
Terminate at 2011.
If the main purpose to terminate recon spare part is due to safety issue,
then Sirim dept have to do their work. Besides S'pore, living std for M'sia is abit better compare with other SEA country. However, still have 1 big gap to acheive goal. We still cannot afford to pay for import new spare part.
G can set up a new dept at Sirim, to perform inspection on recon part to makesure all the parts are safe to use. Simple as that.
Believe this is the way to increase m'sia std instead just stop recon part without any data.

Btw, are they will drop is rule as well? Any latest news update?

 

[jombiee]

I love this thread
I think we need another thread for the closing of chop shop issues ? more proper.
Bottom line is, Gov introduce crap policies..they FLIP, we dont like because we will suffer, we shout, only to realise they making a bad decision days later, they FLOP...drop it. we WIN... the end.
I smell victory, doesnt matter if its for a while, a year or whatever, its just so sweet !!!!
So just keep on fighting for our rights, doing something is better than nothing.

 

[chocolatesttarfish]

yea..and all these will point to 1 objective..stop buying other country's car & buy made in Malaysia car..every 15 years!

 

[arturo]

why not? if we are a real democracy, this is freedom of speech. btw, parliament sittings are supposed to be aired of national tv. our country don't do it doesn't mean other democratic countries don't do it. the thing is, we elect those people to represent us. when they sit in parliament, they are supposed to talk about the people's needs and NOT lobby projects for their own interest. :wavey:

when our world class politicians sit in parliament, they...

but then sometimes they wake up and then they...
<object height="344" width="425">


<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/WduM1FdqzRQ&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&feature=player_embedded&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always" height="344" width="425"></object>

these are our world class politicians and that's why they cant televise live proceedings from parliament...our world class politicians might blurt out/do the wrong thing and cause more harm than good...but sometimes with all the censorship, they still are able to go public and blurt out the wrong things, just like this NAP hairbrained idea.

 

[mizunori77]

By right I should not join this bashing thread. Bash because something that has conflict of interest. I'm the very minority but doesn't mean small voice is wrong. Example like a lot of people said Mr. Kwek forced to let go the Malaysia sugar industry but how many will think that is actually a strategic for getting more cash flow in order to eat some USA company while there is still a chance?

Sad not because of people cannot see the big picture. But because of the selfish culture.

---------- Post added at 10:40 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:35 AM ----------

Most people only can lift thing up but cannot put it down. The rather to die but won't let go the car attitude, if can use on work, sure can become somebody.

Again, as you are so smart, don't forget wtf you had said. It won't take too long to know the result.

no one ever said that minority voice is wrong. assuming that your minority refers to the ruling govt, i want to ask, as a govt elected by the people, you are supposed to serve the people correct?

with your example of the Kuok family having to give up the sugar industry in Malaysia 'so we have enough money to take over a US company' while there is still a chance, i have another question. were the decisions transparent? were information made available to public? whether you are a public organization or a private company, all BIG decisions that involves BIG money will always have to be transparent to the public. THIS IS ACCOUNTABILITY. 'seeing the big picture' sounds nice but the picture can be painted in anyway. what about the REAL picture?

you want to talk about opportunity cost? let's talk about it. the govt has been protecting Proton since Proton was established in the 1980s. this is quite normal as all other countries who manufacture their own cars does the same thing. however, other car makes have already stood on their feet and have been making profits for quite some time before the global downturn. how did they profit? firstly, they have a large enough domestic market to support the company. their city population is the size of our country! secondly, their quality is always improving to the point that the international market buys their cars. Korea, who started much later than us, have surpassed Proton years ago. when the downturn hit, they saw the 'big picture' and sold their national pride to foreign companies. the japanese, who is known to be very proud of themselves also sold Nissan to foreigners. they, as you say, 'know how and when to let go'. Nissan turned from the red into the blacks in less than 2 years and is now making profit. now, the company and also the consumers benefit.

in contrast, let's look at our own industry. Proton now is still relying on govt support to stay afloat. foreign cars are being heavily taxed to keep competition low. funds from Petronas are channeled into the company directly or indirectly. Proton is still able to 'maintain' a decent volume of sales. the consumers are burdened with paying unnecessary high prices for cars, which is like you say, just a mode of transport. WHY should that be?

i once took a japanese customer out for lunch and he was surprised that my nissan sentra costs double of what its original price was. this means when i bought my car, i'm already paying double. when i finish paying off my loans, the total amount will be even higher depending on the interest rate. now WHY should a consumer be paying so much extra to support a company? what is the opportunity cost for me, as a consumer? YES. the govt should be looking at opportunity cost for the people AND NOT for the company. the govt that we elected OWE us that. they should place priority on us and NOT the company. WHY should the benefits of Proton and the whole supply chain OUTWEIGH the benefits of 22 million Malaysians? can you explain what kind of big picture is this?

since you say you represent the minority and you know the big picture, why don't you share with us here instead of asking us to 'don't forget wtf you have said' and wait for the result? you said it is sad that we don't see the big picture but you don't wanna tell us what it is? its not good to have this kind of selfish culture. do share with us the big picture.

p/s - i'm a bit curious. if you're explaining something to your boss or your friends or your family and they don't understand, do you ask them to 'don't forget wtf you have said' and wait for the results too?

 

[boyzone]

As I mentioned previously, we have to pay tax for every new car also spare parts.
Example:
For my Lion 406,
with exchange currency rate,
I notices that majority of the spare part import by M'sia is higher compare with S'pore and Indonesia.
Actually, G already earn a lot from us.

 

[1JZtezza]

By right I should not join this bashing thread. Bash because something that has conflict of interest. I'm the very minority but doesn't mean small voice is wrong. Example like a lot of people said Mr. Kwek forced to let go the Malaysia sugar industry but how many will think that is actually a strategic for getting more cash flow in order to eat some USA company while there is still a chance?

Err you wanna quote economics here get the facts right.Its Kuok and not Kwek!.Maybe he is just fed up of all the local flip flop policies and 'uneven' partnerships.Wilmar in just 2+ years is now a Sing $40B company.

To FVel and Mizunori---Very2 well and eloquently put!!!

 

[DDgreystar]

guys, sorry but i dun see any relevence in terms of talking abt economics n kuok family to this topic, its out of topic already man......simple facts , come 2011 no more chop parts, who will suffer ? do u think its really abt those who come out with the rulings ? yes infact, since they have outlawed the selling of chop parts, so they will come up with a legalised channel of chop parts, in fact such as the braking system ruling, those that r not with the SIRIM cert are deemed dangeous ? So meaning what ? JDM brake items such as disc rotors, pads, will need to be SIRIMised ? meaning more money to go to that channel lor, so likewise, I believe all chop parts will have to gain SIRIMised eventually, in a nutshell end of the day, bizness will still go on as usual, but just not the cost; whatsoever mark up in between, will be passed on to the END USER; now that's what I call economics :P

 

[FVel]

I would not go around celebrating because it does not appear we have won anything yet.

The withdrawal of the 15yr End-0f-Life policy looks just to be a repreive, not an abandonement. Because they said they will be looking at other ways to implement the idea given that the current concept is unpopular. You can be sure the bastards will be thinking of other novel ways of implementing this further down the line.

The thing is they are always testing the waters and trying it on for size. And if you let your guard down, they'll sneak one in under the radar and get away with it. You remember how not so long ago (during Badawi's tenure) they tried to change the publication of history textbooks to portray their (alternate) spin on the racial background of this country ? When it got to the media, it was of course blasted to hell by an indignant public and so they 'tarik balik'....Like I said, the fuckers will test the waters all the time. They will prod you on the arse, prod you on the nose, and see if you bite or you won't.

You got to remember they have not pull back on the proposed ban on imported 2nd hand replacement parts. It still means that most everyone driving relevant but out-of-production cars will be still be screwed by the G.

It's just a ludicrous situation because there cars are out of production but perfectly usable and in most cases made in quality that exceed the newer Malaysian-made brands. Where are you going to get replacement parts for your beloved Honda EG? The car may be out-of-production but it is still Honda's most popular ever sport hatch . You give me a choice between one of your CPS-engined Neo hatchback and a Honda EG, I'd pick the EG anytime......the Neo can't even hold a candle to an EG in terms of quality. And then of course, all the Nissans, Mitsu's, VW's, Volvo's, Toyota's (SEGs, SEs Camry's etc, etc, etc)

So we have not won anything as far as I'm concerned. If they stop the import of good quality 2nd hand spare-parts and other chop-shop items, you'll have trouble maintaining your out-of-production ride that depends on the steady flow of 2nd hand parts to keep going. Ultimately, it amounts to the same thing. You are forced to give up the car and buy a new vehicle just because of the maintenance difficulties.......maintenance difficulties that are not caused by inherent engineering flaws, but rather caused by political interference from the G to choke off your spare-parts. So we are still being screwed with, one way or another.

One last thing.....I don't understand that comment from one of you here about giving up our "selfish ways" and supporting the G's NAP just so that we should "be looking at the big picture".

There is nothing selfish about someone working hard, saving hard and providing a reasonable lifestyle to take care of himself and his family. In point of fact, its our personal obligation to do so.

People cannot be expected to work for years to pay their taxes and service car payments only to be told that they have to give up their perfectly functional vehicles on some whimsical suggestion that they need to buy a new car.

It's wasteful and it's wrong.

And when we talk about 'wasteful', let me remind you that 'wastefullness' has been a byword that goes hand in hand with BN and its G institutions. Scandal after scandal. Hardly a day goes by without some news about mis-use of funds by G and its agents in one way or another. Balkis, PKFZ, Toyo, Azalina, Auditor's General Report, Khairy, money politics during elections, Teoh Beng Hock & corruption inquiries, Razak Baginda and defence contracts, highway concessionaires, dubious G contracts and tenders, sub-standard contractors.

So.........What kind of "big picture" were you referring to ?

By your idea of the "big picture", are we to ignore all the dubious stuff happening around us and hope that maybe the corruption, the inefficiencies and wastefullnes will clean itself out ?

The G has only itself to blame if the rakyat is suspicious of their motives. When the G itself does not deal with 'clean hands', the rakyat refuse their overtures not because we are selfish. It's because we see a scam for what it is. Buy new and buy local does not equate to buying quality. (Malaysian joke :- If the car's bodywork does not make noise, then it is not a Proton, lol. If the gearbox does not seize up and overheat, it's not a Perdana)

You, son, have got to wake up and smarten up. You cannot go around the world with blinders on. If you think last and current BN team had had your best interest at heart., if you think they had acted fairly for all Malaysians of all creed and color, without ill-will and without favor, and if you can convince all Malaysians that all that then maybe

To a lot of us, being a patriotic Malaysian has nothing to do with simply waving the flag and singing the national anthem. It's the ability to read between the lines and go past the political rhetoric and to vote responsibly.

If it comes down to a choice, then obviously I will look after myself because I know I'm worth it. I know I will be prudent and I know I won't overspend. I cannot put an equal amount of faith that my taxpayer $$ will similarly be put to prudent use by the G.....not after all that has happened.

But hey....at the end of the day, it's your money. You do what you want with it. If you think it is a good idea to pour more money to this current G, if you want to continue funding their Government kenduri's and their overseas khusus holidays, if you want to give up your good car for them....... be my guest. In this country, there is no social welfare system. When you have no money to put food on the table, the G won't send you a welfare cheque.

Another good reason to be "selfish", I guess.

 

[1JZtezza]

guys, sorry but i dun see any relevence in terms of talking abt economics n kuok family to this topic, its out of topic already man......simple facts , come 2011 no more chop parts, who will suffer ? do u think its really abt those who come out with the rulings ? yes infact, since they have outlawed the selling of chop parts, so they will come up with a legalised channel of chop parts, in fact such as the braking system ruling, those that r not with the SIRIM cert are deemed dangeous ? So meaning what ? JDM brake items such as disc rotors, pads, will need to be SIRIMised ? meaning more money to go to that channel lor, so likewise, I believe all chop parts will have to gain SIRIMised eventually, in a nutshell end of the day, bizness will still go on as usual, but just not the cost; whatsoever mark up in between, will be passed on to the END USER; now that's what I call economics :P

Lost me here.
Everything about $$ is about economics.Its free market versus protected market.G tax we pay but not happily.What pissess us off is having to pay for their stupid mistakes.Most would know how much an AP is worth in the 'grey' market.If the G on hindsight say none of that money went to them its not our fault! but now we gotta pay another 10k more.
Dont care what standards: IF Malaysia produces a damn good braking system(calipers et all THAT REALLY2 WORKS) for say half the price of an imported one;I would use it.
Chop shops are also operated like a business.If they bring in really inferior stuff or parts that nobody wants;would you be buying from them?
These are small examples of free market governed solely by supply and demand.For the G to come up with ingenious excuses to justify certain tariffs,taxes or protectionist policies is what is pissing off forumers now.

 

[ken yeang]

FVel,

Well said. The bloody Govt is just pathetic. NAP is just the tip of the iceberg.

 

[AD_EG]

no one ever said that minority voice is wrong. assuming that your minority refers to the ruling govt, i want to ask, as a govt elected by the people, you are supposed to serve the people correct?

with your example of the Kuok family having to give up the sugar industry in Malaysia 'so we have enough money to take over a US company' while there is still a chance, i have another question. were the decisions transparent? were information made available to public? whether you are a public organization or a private company, all BIG decisions that involves BIG money will always have to be transparent to the public. THIS IS ACCOUNTABILITY. 'seeing the big picture' sounds nice but the picture can be painted in anyway. what about the REAL picture?

you want to talk about opportunity cost? let's talk about it. the govt has been protecting Proton since Proton was established in the 1980s. this is quite normal as all other countries who manufacture their own cars does the same thing. however, other car makes have already stood on their feet and have been making profits for quite some time before the global downturn. how did they profit? firstly, they have a large enough domestic market to support the company. their city population is the size of our country! secondly, their quality is always improving to the point that the international market buys their cars. Korea, who started much later than us, have surpassed Proton years ago. when the downturn hit, they saw the 'big picture' and sold their national pride to foreign companies. the japanese, who is known to be very proud of themselves also sold Nissan to foreigners. they, as you say, 'know how and when to let go'. Nissan turned from the red into the blacks in less than 2 years and is now making profit. now, the company and also the consumers benefit.

in contrast, let's look at our own industry. Proton now is still relying on govt support to stay afloat. foreign cars are being heavily taxed to keep competition low. funds from Petronas are channeled into the company directly or indirectly. Proton is still able to 'maintain' a decent volume of sales. the consumers are burdened with paying unnecessary high prices for cars, which is like you say, just a mode of transport. WHY should that be?

i once took a japanese customer out for lunch and he was surprised that my nissan sentra costs double of what its original price was. this means when i bought my car, i'm already paying double. when i finish paying off my loans, the total amount will be even higher depending on the interest rate. now WHY should a consumer be paying so much extra to support a company? what is the opportunity cost for me, as a consumer? YES. the govt should be looking at opportunity cost for the people AND NOT for the company. the govt that we elected OWE us that. they should place priority on us and NOT the company. WHY should the benefits of Proton and the whole supply chain OUTWEIGH the benefits of 22 million Malaysians? can you explain what kind of big picture is this?

since you say you represent the minority and you know the big picture, why don't you share with us here instead of asking us to 'don't forget wtf you have said' and wait for the result? you said it is sad that we don't see the big picture but you don't wanna tell us what it is? its not good to have this kind of selfish culture. do share with us the big picture.

p/s - i'm a bit curious. if you're explaining something to your boss or your friends or your family and they don't understand, do you ask them to 'don't forget wtf you have said' and wait for the results too?

Well said my friend.

I would not go around celebrating because it does not appear we have won anything yet.

The withdrawal of the 15yr End-0f-Life policy looks just to be a repreive, not an abandonement. Because they said they will be looking at other ways to implement the idea given that the current concept is unpopular. You can be sure the bastards will be thinking of other novel ways of implementing this further down the line.

The thing is they are always testing the waters and trying it on for size. And if you let your guard down, they'll sneak one in under the radar and get away with it. You remember how not so long ago (during Badawi's tenure) they tried to change the publication of history textbooks to portray their (alternate) spin on the racial background of this country ? When it got to the media, it was of course blasted to hell by an indignant public and so they 'tarik balik'....Like I said, the fuckers will test the waters all the time. They will prod you on the arse, prod you on the nose, and see if you bite or you won't.

You got to remember they have not pull back on the proposed ban on imported 2nd hand replacement parts. It still means that most everyone driving relevant but out-of-production cars will be still be screwed by the G.

It's just a ludicrous situation because there cars are out of production but perfectly usable and in most cases made in quality that exceed the newer Malaysian-made brands. Where are you going to get replacement parts for your beloved Honda EG? The car may be out-of-production but it is still Honda's most popular ever sport hatch . You give me a choice between one of your CPS-engined Neo hatchback and a Honda EG, I'd pick the EG anytime......the Neo can't even hold a candle to an EG in terms of quality. And then of course, all the Nissans, Mitsu's, VW's, Volvo's, Toyota's (SEGs, SEs Camry's etc, etc, etc)

So we have not won anything as far as I'm concerned. If they stop the import of good quality 2nd hand spare-parts and other chop-shop items, you'll have trouble maintaining your out-of-production ride that depends on the steady flow of 2nd hand parts to keep going. Ultimately, it amounts to the same thing. You are forced to give up the car and buy a new vehicle just because of the maintenance difficulties.......maintenance difficulties that are not caused by inherent engineering flaws, but rather caused by political interference from the G to choke off your spare-parts. So we are still being screwed with, one way or another.

One last thing.....I don't understand that comment from one of you here about giving up our "selfish ways" and supporting the G's NAP just so that we should "be looking at the big picture".

There is nothing selfish about someone working hard, saving hard and providing a reasonable lifestyle to take care of himself and his family. In point of fact, its our personal obligation to do so.

People cannot be expected to work for years to pay their taxes and service car payments only to be told that they have to give up their perfectly functional vehicles on some whimsical suggestion that they need to buy a new car.

It's wasteful and it's wrong.

And when we talk about 'wasteful', let me remind you that 'wastefullness' has been a byword that goes hand in hand with BN and its G institutions. Scandal after scandal. Hardly a day goes by without some news about mis-use of funds by G and its agents in one way or another. Balkis, PKFZ, Toyo, Azalina, Auditor's General Report, Khairy, money politics during elections, Teoh Beng Hock & corruption inquiries, Razak Baginda and defence contracts, highway concessionaires, dubious G contracts and tenders, sub-standard contractors.

So.........What kind of "big picture" were you referring to ?

By your idea of the "big picture", are we to ignore all the dubious stuff happening around us and hope that maybe the corruption, the inefficiencies and wastefullnes will clean itself out ?

The G has only itself to blame if the rakyat is suspicious of their motives. When the G itself does not deal with 'clean hands', the rakyat refuse their overtures not because we are selfish. It's because we see a scam for what it is. Buy new and buy local does not equate to buying quality. (Malaysian joke :- If the car's bodywork does not make noise, then it is not a Proton, lol. If the gearbox does not seize up and overheat, it's not a Perdana)

You, son, have got to wake up and smarten up. You cannot go around the world with blinders on. If you think last and current BN team had had your best interest at heart., if you think they had acted fairly for all Malaysians of all creed and color, without ill-will and without favor, and if you can convince all Malaysians that all that then maybe

To a lot of us, being a patriotic Malaysian has nothing to do with simply waving the flag and singing the national anthem. It's the ability to read between the lines and go past the political rhetoric and to vote responsibly.

If it comes down to a choice, then obviously I will look after myself because I know I'm worth it. I know I will be prudent and I know I won't overspend. I cannot put an equal amount of faith that my taxpayer $$ will similarly be put to prudent use by the G.....not after all that has happened.

But hey....at the end of the day, it's your money. You do what you want with it. If you think it is a good idea to pour more money to this current G, if you want to continue funding their Government kenduri's and their overseas khusus holidays, if you want to give up your good car for them....... be my guest. In this country, there is no social welfare system. When you have no money to put food on the table, the G won't send you a welfare cheque.

Another good reason to be "selfish", I guess.

:top: thank you.

 

[sbirdz]

......

I dun think brother netmatrix... so far i checked at the MAA website.. :D guess whut.. even the 15 years old car rules are still there...

........

Brother Mizunori and Flev... are you two coming on 29th to Bukit Jalil... relax r... relax r...

I thought i was damn piss off last week friday.. but it seems now... you all starts to see how bad this thing will spread onto...

One simple thing only for why i also damn 7 anger last week...... All my relatives driving those Nissan & Toyota lorries and van... they too relies on 2nd hand parts... and when their vehicles gets broken down, and no spare parts... (believes me.. there are really some parts u just can't buy via NEW ONES!)... how the fk are they gonna live one? Mostly my cousin still rely on their parents to feed them... and i myself still sometimes need to lend money from my parents... and I still have to lost my transportation to works and buy a new car?

*CSL, this qoute is for u: ARE YOU NUTS!!! MY EARNING IS NOT 3-4k monthly alright... like Mizunori said earlier... whatever also got tax and taxes and taxes... But they are going to chop my transportation off.... U feel the big pictures now? brother!~~

and if you would like to see how a 90% of citizen live their life with a happy goal, happy dream... Drop by to bukit Jalil this 29th... I will tell you, why mostly people can't really simply change car like what u see mostly youngster are doing today... and i even show u...

If malaysian has 22 millions of rakyat... 10% belongs to rich and good life people are equals to 2.2millions of citizen, which u see them running in clubs, bar, disco, streets, shopping malls, and more!~~~ with expensive new car... and expensive new clothes... U try goto more rural area and see...

not to flame or shoot u directly, but from ur early post till today... you can see how many people disagree with you already... forum is a place for free talking.. but if there isn't a single votes or supports towards your words... there is truely something wrong there... trust me.. U can even get this from any Self-Improvement books....