Budget B16a upgrades

I'm currently experimenting on my B16A engine... prior to plonking a B20b and I'm doing lots of stuffs to it with 'borrowed' used parts from friends and such. Considering it an experiment on getting away with modding with the least amount of money.

So far, I've tried the following setups.

Setup A)
a) DC2 extractor with Type R piping
b) Random brand name intakes (they probably improve horsepower in the 0.xx range for a stock B16A without any ECU tweaking.)
Stock fuel regulator from civic type R

With no ECU tweaking, probably get 1-5 horses I think... depends a lot on the condition of your engine.

Assuming you got the above 2, I think this is the cheapest way to roughly add more fuel to the car without investing in a piggyback/management unit. Even cheaper than plonking in a aftermarket fuel regulator. Now you guys know what to do with your old Civic Type R regulators since you're running aftermarket ones.... sell them to B16A owners! Hehehe. ITRs, you can sell to those with B18B/B16A combo owners.

Setup B)
same as above but with stock regulator, but with VAFC tweaking the mix. Slightly more expensive.. makes me think setup A is a better option for those that have no idea on tuning the VAFC.

How about you guys.. let's try think about ways of modding B16A on the cheap.. I mean real cheap... the cheaper the better. Consider it brain exercise.. ROFL!

Setup C)
same as setup A, but remove power steering pump and aircond. I haven't tried this because I can't live without air-cond and power steering.. :P

Oh, I mean just the engine.. ignore chassis lightening.

Finally had someone that allowed me to borrow a fuel pressure meter (and the relevant hoses), so I had a field day with it.

The idle pressure are dual, because they're right around the middle, so you can interpret it as 240/250 as 245kpa.

stock fuel regulator from B16A, idle = 240/250kpa, max = 300kpa

stock fuel regulator from ITR (didn't have CTR's one on hand to test, sold off already!.. but believed to be the same as ITR), idle = 290/300kpa, max at WOT = 350kpa

stock fuel regulator from H22A, 210kpa, max at WOT = 260kpa (numbers dubious, could be a faulty regulator).. or it could be right, as H22A injectors are much much larger than the B16A/B16B/B18C's 240cc injectors..

By means of visual inspection, it seems like the stock regulators have NO markings that differentiate their capacities, only hint as to how much pressure to be expected is through measuring the circumference of the fuel regulator body itself. bigger = higher pressure, smaller = lower pressure.

I'm getting a few possible capacities of the H22A injectors after much research.. one is 280cc, and another is 310cc/320cc after searching on the net. dunno which capacity is correct. Anyone knows for sure?

There goes 2 hours of my life today spend testing stock fuel regulator today.. :P
What a constructive way to spend a holiday.. and yes, I have no life! (>_<)

The common theory (don't exactly remember, please correct if I'm wrong) is that to double the flow, you need four times the pressure.. so an increase of 20% in fuel pressure should result in a fifth of an increase (rounded up) in fuelling across the rev range.. so a 240cc injector at 100% duty cycle (yes, the honda's ones can go up to that number, as hondata has claimed this to be true as well) should provide near 25% increase in CC, possibly allowing almost near 290ccs to flow at 100% duty cycle.

since the stock B16A shouldn't reach 100% duty cycle (I assume), I should get a bit of enrichment in fuelling across the rev range. My B16A was running lean at stock (with the header and intake), hence the attempt to try using CTR/ITRs one in liew of a proper fuel regulator. I'm taking out the plugs either today or tommorow for inspection to see how it goes.

Semutapi,
I think no responses because most people here not DIY kakilah. Just send to the shop and pay the bills. :P

hattech-v said:

aiyaaa... last time i just give my itr fr for free.. if i know sure can sell it.. hehe...
btw, shiro can u conver that kpa to psi?

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try search the netlah.. I used sard's fuel pressure meter, so only available in KPA.. and I took it out already, because it was a borrowed unit.

I think hondata mentions that it's 44psi (at max) thereabouts, not sure... so better check that psi number I quoted.

Edit: Rechecked.. the formula to convert kpa to psi is (kpa * 0.14504 = psi) which bring the idle fuel pressure at 300Kpa = 43.512psi at idle.. not max.. and hits 50.xxxpsi at 350kpa.

On the stock B16A manifold, I achieved slightly less than 300KPA.. but it's so close that it could be read as 300Kpa as well.. (I think it could probably be because of less vacuum, since it's B16A after all.)

Anyway.. help me out here hattech-v.. have you personally flow tested the H22A's injector capacity? I want some hard numbers on H22A injectors you can get off local halfcuts.. and websites quoted various numbers that are dubious....

akuma said:

stock ITR fuel regulator...Lin Hup Seng...RM265 (May 2005)

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Really? I got a couple and I'm willing to sell lower than that. :P

J101 said:

im just quoting from my past posts :

the honda prelude injectors:
year 92-95 non-vtec peak and hold 240cc
year 92-96 vtec peak and hold 330cc
year 97-01 vtec saturated 290cc

maybe u can ask the guys with H22A, they should have more infos to this.

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Thing is.. nobody with H22A that I know of ever flow tested injectors, since most H22A run stock... unlike the B series, where people try to mod it a bit.

but thanks for the numbers. may I know the source? I've heard that there's a saturated injector for the H22A with 310/320cc... but without any hard facts.. hard to really know.

As for differentiating, it's not a problem, as I just need to remember to check the year of the halfcut and connector ends for capacity and type.

Hattech, peak and hold and saturated have different sockets.. for me, that's the easiest way to differentiate. if you got other methods that you learn, please share.

I'm thinking about playing with e-manage now.. run stock, then stuff in injectors from a H22A and tweak it to run correctly on a stock B16 block with just an A/F meter (tuning for power comes later). Thing is, I need to know the exact capacity for sure. Hopefully I'll learn something from it to enable me to tune my B20 when it's done. I know it's probably better to let someone else do it.. but the fun in my modding comes from the DIY portion for me. :P

J101 said:

the fpr design are normally to match the fuel pressure from the fuel pump. if max wot is 260kpa, then their full pump are smaller than b-series? i dunno, thats why im asking.

good to hear feedback on the fuel pump sizes. thx

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Thing is, fuel pumps is said to be similar across all honda makes of the B-series. H-series, I don't really know.. because nobody here owns a modded prelude.. at least not one that knows about engine stuff.

Oh.. I think you misinterpreted what I said J101. I didn't test the H22A fuel pressure regulator on a H22A car, but rather on my own B16A civic with the stock fuel pump. so all numbers were from the same fuel system, the only change being the fuel regulator.

It could be that the stock fuel pump on the H22A pushes more pressure, hence the regulator body could be made smaller and the intake port hole could be made bigger (inside the regulator, as the outer port could be made visually similar for hose fitting purposes) and yet be able to make adequate pressure.

I noticed this trend seems to apply on high capacity cars like the GTR, which has quite a small bodied after market fuel regulator, compare to the B-series aftermarket ones, which has are distinctly bigger (esp the aftermarket ones). I believe it's because the fuel pumps on these cars push out more pressure due to their high flow rate... hence the pressure regulators and stuff don't need high pressures like small cc modded engine.

From what I know about fuel pressure regulators, The max pressure is determined by the spring rate, which is controlled by the vacuum line for idle and WOT, while the pressure at idle is dependent on the body of the fuel regulator, and it's intake port size inside the fuel regulator. On an adjustable one, I think the threaded vacuum port on the regulator is for adjusting the spring rate.

Still, this is just theories at best for now. Must learn more.