Titan's Pillowball Mounts

[ninja_iga]

llsaw,

well explained! :thumbsup:

 

[fabianyee]

The NMB bearing is made specifically for this purpose...

If you look at the SKF bearing which is used by Titan. there is a joint line for the housing... and the teflon layer is thick.

If the teflon layer is thick, then there is a tendency for that layer to wear off... and when that happen, the bearing would be useless...

And the NMB bearing is more expensive than the SKF bearing...

The strenght for the bearings will show when it's used on the road... It's a question of how long it can last... 1 month? 6 months? 1 year?

The result will depend on how long can the teflon layer in the bearing last....

 

[devious17]

The problem with these pillowball mount is the durability. I haven't had one that can last me anywhere near 80k km and that goes to explain why I am sceptical about your balls :lol: ( hope you don't mind). All the ones I have been using are brand new TEIN's and CUSCO's.

Stan,how good is your balls comparing to the puny rest? If you can convince me then you have my 800 agong's face.

Hmmm for RM800 I am expecting 800K km of usage :lol: :lol: I know I am being unrealistic.

 

[llsaw]

The spherical bearing in a pillowball mount is like any other "racing" part. They are designed to give optimum handling performance by limiting uni-directional flex inherent in rubber bushes towards the strut damper shaft. Noise, harshness, vibration and very high mileage longetivity are secondary. I would consider 80K km very excellent mileage for a part that most professional race/rally teams change after every few races or every season. Be it a Tein, Cusco, DMS or Titan you should really not expect the spherical bearing to last beyond 60-70K of mileage. Anyway you will only be changing the bearing itself and not the entire pillowball mount/camber plate..

 

[ninja_iga]

Originally posted by fabianyee@Jun 10 2004, 10:58 AM
The NMB bearing is made specifically for this purpose...

If you look at the SKF bearing which is used by Titan. there is a joint line for the housing... and the teflon layer is thick.

If the teflon layer is thick, then there is a tendency for that layer to wear off... and when that happen, the bearing would be useless...

And the NMB bearing is more expensive than the SKF bearing...

The strenght for the bearings will show when it's used on the road... It's a question of how long it can last... 1 month? 6 months? 1 year?

The result will depend on how long can the teflon layer in the bearing last....

fabianyee,

may i ask, what were you looking at? :blink: what Teflon?
the steel uniball is housed in a in bronze insert (a material that absorbs oil very well, great for bearing use)

last i checked, that's what we're using.
;) and Teflon aint bronze color...

 

[ninja_iga]

Originally posted by llsaw@Jun 10 2004, 11:45 AM
The spherical bearing in a pillowball mount is like any other "racing" part. They are designed to give optimum handling performance by limiting uni-directional flex inherent in rubber bushes towards the strut damper shaft. Noise, harshness, vibration and very high mileage longetivity are secondary. I would consider 80K km very excellent mileage for a part that most professional race/rally teams change after every few races or every season. Be it a Tein, Cusco, DMS or Titan you should really not expect the spherical bearing to last beyond 60-70K of mileage. Anyway you will only be changing the bearing itself and not the entire pillowball mount/camber plate..

thanks llsaw again, for taking the words outta my mouth, and made it even better.

race components are designed to perform its best and better than the rest for a designed period of time. That's why a Formula One car can't be used for the regular balik-kampung route.. you'll either run outta fuel, or blow the engine for staying in high revs too long.

 

[llsaw]

The advantage of a PTFE (teflon is really too low end :lol:) lining is that it is self lubricating and does not need relubrication. It's anti friction or anti-stiction qualities are also well reknown. Most Motorsport bearings that I know off such as Aurora, NMB, etc. will have a PTFE liner..

Stanley,

Will the owner need to periodically lubricate the Titan pillowball mount in the bronze insert ? Regardless I think there will be more stiction when compared to a PTFE liner..

 

[ninja_iga]

llsaw / Andrew,

yes it is recommended by SKF to lubricate periodically with grease! but not practical in this application, so an alternative is gearbox oil.

stiction is definately alot !!

 

[llsaw]

If stiction is a lot get ready for occasional "clunk" type of noises. This is because the spring will move faster than the shock shaft due to stiction between the shaft and the bearing slowing it down. As a buddy of mine said once "The spherical bearing will have more friction than standard bearings. Therefore, you are bound to have more twisting on the spring and the top collar... which will generate the sound like hitting the spring with
a hammer. "Thunnnngg"

Welcome to the pillowball mount experience :lol:

 

[devious17]

You do have a point there in saying these mounts are meant for performance and not daily cruising. But can Titan produce one that is for balik kampung? From the description above I am assuming the answer's no?

As for the lubriction bit ,I wouldn't advice it ,apart from Titans of course. bad experience doing that to my cusco mounts. The lub tends to attract fine dust particals which,in the long run (15k km), the bearing wears out vert rapidly.....very.

I improvised with my tein's with a DIY casing to contain industrial grease around the ball. This has been a good diy(albeit messy) so far after 40k km and the bearings are still as good as new.

From the findings above,I guess it is more than sufficient to prevent the element from getting to the bearings to prevent errosion? meaning a casing that keeps water ,dust and grime away from the bearings.....that gives me an idea.

So,it's called stiction that makes the 'thhunngg' racket :lol: i have been looking for that word

Ninja_iga,Titan not thinking of diversifying into PU bushings? Since Titan is in the suspension arena why not get down with PU bushings too?The reason I am asking is that I am looking to installing them but got a quote from super Pro which shrivelled my wallet :lol:

 

[cmng]

Originally posted by llsaw@Jun 10 2004, 12:22 AM
Others like Ground Control will use a separate torrington or needle bearing assembly to help assist in supporting the strut but this are errm.. not cheap..

Err
IISAW

did you mean this GC ?
almost bought it but feeling too expensive
but still dunno whether it good or not

 

[devious17]

HmmMMMMmm.....castor and camber in one! Fully adjustable!

 

[cmng]

Devious17..

USD 299 for 240sx us spec
need modification on Strut tower

 

[devious17]

I realised the modification required which means my nismo tower bar will be useless.

 

[cmng]

yeah..
going to be useless
custom another one la.. he he he

 

[llsaw]

Devious17,

Don't think the words "balik kpg" and "pillowball mounts" are not in the same dictionary :lol: For balik kpg scenarios you'll be better off with a harder compound rubber top mount ala Group N WRC mount. There are arguments for and against PU bushes too. Apparently depending on which camp you're in, some argue that PU bushes do not allow 2 simultaneous planes of move unlike a rubber or spherical bearing. Go figure that out.

 

[llsaw]

Don't ya just love the simultaneous camber and castor adjustments on the GC camber plates. Fab stuff. Tein and Cusco PB mounts can either be configured for camber or castor adjustment but not both. The GC also raises the top mount height for additional strut piston travel..

 

[devious17]

Thanks llsaw,looks like I'll be reverting to the ol' and ugly top mount once mine has kicked the bucket.

 

[ninja_iga]

it's true that, PU bushes only a single plane of flex. Having something way too stiff may contribute to the inverted monotube's top mount to be really stressed. (most especially for MacPherson struts)

If used and taken care of properly, uniball top mounts actually can last pretty long. 80k is WAY long man.

for those who dunno what's 'stiction', it's static friction. To move an object from a static position, it has friction too.

llsaw,
suprisingly, there's no *thuunk* sounds from the TiTANed cars fitted with uniball. Pretty quiet i'd say.

 

[llsaw]

Stanley,

Not all cars will have the sound. Even Jamie Drummond told me he is unsure why some cars have it and other's don't. From my experience I used to have the sound from my Cuscos but once the bearing is fully broken-in I hardly if ever get the sound anymore.