Rotary Engine no good lah

[13btt]

Time and time again I have heard so many comments, sadly negative, from the general public, mechanics, past & even present owners of the RX-7 that "the engine is no good lah!" Other comments go like "this engine is sooo weak, always break one" There are so many misconceptions held about this engine that are not proven nor supported by actual understanding of why the engine failed. Most often (if not always) it wasn't the engine's fault but rather bad modification, too little fueling, clogged fuel filter, poor cooling system leading to high water temperatures and overheating...the list goes on.

Sadly the RE is the most misunderstood and poorly maintained rotary engine this side of Japan and Australia. The Aussie's absolutely love it and currently hold the quarter mile world record at 7.69 seconds using a 3 rotor 20B!

My humble personal opinion on the matter is the rotary engine is an EXCELLENT engine, amazing in its design, fantastically free revving with HUGE power & torque to scare most other engines out there. However, I do understand that very early generation REs (i.e 10A & 12A) did have some o-ring problems but that is some 25 years ago.

When new friends, family & often clients come to know I have an RX-7 the first thing they say is not how nice my car is or wow looks good or something similar but instead "you had lots of problems with your rotary?" I bluntly reply "No actually, it has been really good" They typically pause for a moment in shock and say well then thats surpisingly good... After that those that are more familiar and once owned a rotary powered car engage in further investigation with me...others just walk away in disbelief to continue their bad opinion of RE.

Personally I have owned my 1995 FD RX-7 for some 4 years now and since rebuilding the engine with a mate haven't had any major problems, that is to say no blown apex seal(s), compromised o-ring or low compression etc etc. It has been running beautifully since day 1 after the precision rebuild which was needed due to "old age" and tired o-rings. My engine was the original one since 1995! How do I know this..because when we took it out we could see that all bolts were untouched with the original paint markings intact.

I want to stir up some emotion from my title to this post and hopefully generate good discussion on the various opinions held on the RE and with a bit of good fortune disprove most of the misconceptions & bad rumours out there.

Please post up your comments and views on this engine and what you have heard from people about the Rotary Engine.

Thanks.

 

[lan evo]

i love fd but it was 2 seater,not suitable for me.has been thinking to sell my evo and buy a fd and another daily drive car.so only drive it weekend:p

all car also the same la,depends on how the owner take care of it and which mechanic do the maintenance.

 

[endless551]

here is my part of the story... Gonna leave work soon so just gonna keep this short.. I've owned the car since end of last year. Tracked it 5 times. Or was it 4? Drifted in OTS.. Drift occasionally with friends around. Rotorary drifters tend to know we need to rev the b*tch out of the engine to sustain some nice angle drift.. Some may tell me.. 'oh.. aren't u afraid of blowing something as rotary engines are weak and so on' BULLSHIT. I wanted to break it, trust me.. I want it to break so I feel the worth of rebuilding (yeah it might cost more but this is my daily drive too..). But it just won't go... Compression stays the same... still rev as hard as before. Whats the secret?? I always check my fluid level, keep my boost low (not necessary but make sure u f**king well feed it enuf fuel for ur big boost application - FUELLING!!! AIN'T NO ROCKET SCIENCE!!) Engine did overheated on me once.. only once... and in Sepang, after two hot laps revving up to redline every shift.. Problem rectified as I wasn't getting enough fuel at all (A/F 13), and was lucky I didn't blow anything.. Also found out that lots of air pocket in my cooling system after changing my radiator.. Now it run strong until my tyres and brake give way.. Also, my engine oil is changed (with the right visco and type) every 3000km or after SIC outing, whichever comes first... Watch ur boost, watch ur fuel, watch ur oil.. Of course, u do need a healthy engine to start with, which is pretty scarce out there.. go for rebuild and educate urself.. I promise a long and wonderful relationship with Wankel..

Btw.. its like having a hot ass model as ur gfren.. U need to wine & dine her.. pamper her.. But when ur getting on with her.. frankly, do u give a shit how much the freakin Gucci handbag cost u?!?! Do u? not me..

 

[re_fc3s]

Quality is based on perception as much as it is based on facts. Once you drop the ball, rectifying the problem is easy, rectifying the image is hard.

Mazda won in LeMans, RE holds World Quater Mile record etc... But has that improve the image? Yes and no.

Just imagine for a moment, today we have new generations of REs that are 'bullet-proof' - will never fail even if you boost it up to 3 bar, rev it to 15k etc and uses 1/2 the amount of petrol than a piston. If you gave it to your son 21years from now, i can bet you his frens will ask him the same question - "you had lots of problems with your rotary?"

As it is rarer than a piston engine, 25 years ago, ppl would ask RE owners how is it? They will answer honestly bla bla bla. Slowly it becomes hear-say and even as time it improves tremendously, it's still has a stigma.

Those who can appreciate rotors are a rare breed compared to general drivers. But we don't need a general consensus to make us feel good. We koow what is good.

Food for thought: Can car manufacturer improve the image of RE? If we ever had a fail proof engine, will they ever market it that way?

Don't hear Mazda boasting much when they won LeMans, had one of their engines set the new world record etc.

Nissan350Z won the Japan GT in Malaysia, and every couple of days they take up a full add in the newspaper. Sadly, image is based more on perception than facts.

 

[Savanna 12A]

Yeap, I own that 25 years old 1st gen and still with its original engine and has been with me for 5 good years!

Sometimes kinda hard to explain to ppl when I open-up the bonet, normally at car wash.

But what is satisfying owning this rare beast is ... the ... oooohhss ... and the ... aaaaahhhs ... from ppl around knowing no pistons, no valves, no cam and 1.2L n/a with 110bhp free revving engine!

Cheers!

 

[phat7]

Glen had to stir the hornets nest!! Well..i've owned the fd for more than 5 years. Had my share of overheating and anything else that could go wrong. Like Endless mentioned earlier the basics of engine mantainence plays an important role regardless if its piston or rocket engine powered. People looking at buying the rotary must first uderstand there is hardly any reliable support here in Malaysia (the RE Club hopes to change this)

I drive my car pretty hard nd so far its been a good girl. Unlike other pistons the rotary finds itself starving of fuel with simple bolt on's like intakes,exhaust,downpipes. Fuelling is essential!! The availability of ecu's like those advertised here eg. AMEMIYA ECU, KS ECU etc makes it even more confusing for new owners whom in their excitement go out and purchase them not knowing what modifications these ecu's call for. And when the engine blows they blame the poor rotary.

Fuel consumption....well it is worth every penny. The amount of fun i have justifies the cost of fuel. It definitely is not cheap but for the amount of power on tap it has to guzzle.

 

[aarion]

The fact that the rotary engine only have three moving parts already amaze me. Lesser the moving part, lesser the problems. I think the only major downside is Fuel consumption.

Hehehe, and i don't even owed a rotary engine. Still learning about it. HEHEHE

 

[cobra_motor]

must let my bro read this coz i already persuaded my bro to take the rx7.

so cobra motorsports will also specialize in rotary jugak la after dis.

always play mitsubishi only. 90% people convert at my place all put in mitsubishi engine.

anyway, love rx7. cun man. even rx8 is not as cun as rx7. my opinion only aah.

rx8 guys dont hentam me. :)

 

[13btt]

Who & where are Cobra Motorsports? Do they have experience with RE or are they looking to acquire the same?

 

[Lennon]

anyway, love rx7. cun man. even rx8 is not as cun as rx7. my opinion only aah.

rx8 guys dont hentam me. :)

No problem. Turbo era is gone as far as the manufacturer is concerned.

 

[phat7]

No problem. Turbo era is gone as far as the manufacturer is concerned.

i secretly hope that mazda would continue with turbocharged engines in rx7's. manufacturers these days seem to still include turbocharged variants in their lineup and hopefully this spurs Mazda to continue turbocharging their sport/race vehicles especially the rotary.

 

[13btt]

Ok met another "mechanic" the other day, who shall remain unamed given his less than good comments about RX-7 / RE.

He reckons that all the "rotary engine knowledge and servicing skills went back to Japan back in the seventies soon after mazda didn't bring in the RX series here anymore" Is this true or perhaps some forumers can post up (including contact details) who they feel are good at servicing AND rebuilding the RE..thanks.

This would be good for all owners of the RE to help them maintain their cars and enjoy trouble-free motoring.

 

[Savanna 12A]

Anyone heard about this name ... Gary Chua?

He was our legendary rotary racer in the late 70's and early 80's, raced with his SA and FC at Batu 3 race circuit. Those days he had a workshop specialised in RE located at Jln Kilang, PJ Old Town.

Indeed he is still operating there, not for RE of course but as the official Perodua Rally Team service centre.

Perhaps someone cld approach him and bring back his RE skills and experience to be shared with us.

 

[13btt]

I have never met the guy myself but have a few business friends who know him when they owned an SA.

One FD RX-7 owner reckons that Gary Chua's sons both own FCs and are good to talk with and very much RE enthusiasts. Apparently Gary is preoccupied very much with modifying the "shopping trolleys"

Perhaps we can organise a group of members to meet these owners at the workshop in PJ old town?

Anyone heard about this name ... Gary Chua?


He was our legendary rotary racer in the late 70's and early 80's, raced with his SA and FC at Batu 3 race circuit. Those days he had a workshop specialised in RE located at Jln Kilang, PJ Old Town.

Indeed he is still operating there, not for RE of course but as the official Perodua Rally Team service centre.

Perhaps someone cld approach him and bring back his RE skills and experience to be shared with us.

 

[alex_77]

hey guy,i have 1 question want to ask all sifu here.my car got some smoke when it is in ilde ,it's ok??

 

[phat7]

what colour? any smell? When does it smoke most?

 

[13btt]

You need to be more specific & tell us about your exact symptoms in order to properly assess your condition 8-) ...your post is too vague.

Didn't you recently swap in 1/2 cut engine??

White smoke on cold start is acceptable if you don't have cat or airpump.

White smoke after yr engine is warmed up could mean bad TPS adjustment or worse if it smells 'sweet' then you are burning engine coolant.

If burning coolant then 1 or more of your engine coolant o-rings is bad allowing coolant (water) to enter the combustion chamber.

Are you losing water?? Does your RX drive normal otherwise or does it hiccup / buck when accelerating??

Best of luck...hope this helps.

hey guy,i have 1 question want to ask all sifu here.my car got some smoke when it is in ilde ,it's ok??

 

[alex_77]

thank for yours information.. my engine is rebuit engine, last time i had change 1 h/c engine ,but ih's problum.so i change a rebuit 1..my car is going out with white smoke with heavy petrol smell.

 

[aiM]

err.. my car also got petrol smell but dont have white smoke. futhermore, if i stand near to my exhaust, the petrol smell is strong + pain in the eyes. if i not wrong, rotary engine cant burn 100% petrol inside the block, thus got the petrol smell. am i right?

 

[13btt]

Which workshop rebuilt the engine? Just curious coz if good job then good info for others in Penang that view this forum to check out next time they need engine.

thank for yours information.. my engine is rebuit engine, last time i had change 1 h/c engine ,but ih's problum.so i change a rebuit 1..my car is going out with white smoke with heavy petrol smell.

 

[aiM]

errr.. rotary engine also can produce FIRE at the exhaust! broom broom!!

 

[endless551]

Which workshop rebuilt the engine? Just curious coz if good job then good info for others in Penang that view this forum to check out next time they need engine.

errr... good job? Be a direct straight to the point not beating around the bush Msian Ah-beng.. Rebuilt engine still smoking!?!? 2t oil?? :D

 

[phat7]

when i was in penang there was nobody that could rebuild rotary. but that was way back in 2000-2003

 

[alex_77]

i also dono where is the engine rebuited...my fren chop shop get it for me ,if i'm not misstaken he take from M-POWER chop shop in kl.u guy know this chop shop?? ...dono lah ,,he say this is rebuit in japan....but 1 thing i can sure is the o-ring in flywheel there is new and the engine inlet outlet look very clean,between the rotor housing also got silicon gum (the gum can see is the new 1).can look this engine had been open lah...i also not very pro in rotery engine,soo need some sifu to teach me loh...

 

[Turbo676]

A fren of mind was thinkin of gettin an FD auto as she just loves the curvaceous shape. However, i've observed that she travels quite a bit and 1 can only expect her current honda jazz 1.5Dsi to be rather frugal with the fuel consumption. I'd like to hear from you guys what your average fuel consumption is? ie how much per full tank n how many ks you get to run b4 filling her up again. thanks

 

[13btt]

No comparison

our FDs are 1.3L so very good fuel consumption LOL!

this would have to 1 of my most hated Qs.... if u are concerned about fuel consumption don't buy a sports car / rotary engine full stop!! - no offence intended.

how can u compare a puny 1.5L hondo engine pumping out 80kW to a race engine pumping out 280kW (250kW - earlier models)?

Pure physics dictates that the more power u make the more fuel & air u require...this is why ferraris only manage 20-25L per 100km.

That said, you can expect an FD best case to get 300-350km / tank. If modded heavily less than 300km is very likely. This is comparable to a modded evo8.

 

[FD3S]

our FDs are 1.3L so very good fuel consumption LOL!

this would have to 1 of my most hated Qs.... if u are concerned about fuel consumption don't buy a sports car / rotary engine full stop!! - no offence intended.

how can u compare a puny 1.5L hondo engine pumping out 80kW to a race engine pumping out 280kW (250kW - earlier models)?

Pure physics dictates that the more power u make the more fuel & air u require...this is why ferraris only manage 20-25L per 100km.

That said, you can expect an FD best case to get 300-350km / tank. If modded heavily less than 300km is very likely. This is comparable to a modded evo8.

Great~!!!! Brilliant 13btt..2 thumbs up for you~!!! I 100% agree on what you say~!!!

Sedan vs Sport Car???!!! How to compare, buddy~??!!

 

[Turbo676]

our FDs are 1.3L so very good fuel consumption LOL!

this would have to 1 of my most hated Qs.... if u are concerned about fuel consumption don't buy a sports car / rotary engine full stop!! - no offence intended.

how can u compare a puny 1.5L hondo engine pumping out 80kW to a race engine pumping out 280kW (250kW - earlier models)?

Pure physics dictates that the more power u make the more fuel & air u require...this is why ferraris only manage 20-25L per 100km.

That said, you can expect an FD best case to get 300-350km / tank. If modded heavily less than 300km is very likely. This is comparable to a modded evo8.

dude, no offence taken. ANyway, she did ask as FC was 1 of her considerations as she's doin quite a bit of travelling due to the nature of her job.

Anyway, how much does it cost for full tank with current petrol prices? give or take a little.

thanks again.

 

[coolblue]

I've mod a fc with a fuel consumption like around 400~420km per tank of $80 bucks ,
reasonable?

 

[phat7]

coolblue-who are you? Interested to know considering your vast exposure to rotary engines. Maybe you can tune my car.