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Message: <blockquote data-quote="jinkl" data-source="post: 2927142" data-attributes="member: 3008">Quote:<table style='width: 100%'><tr><td> Mustang is a true measure of torque. DynoJets read whp and use engine rpm to calculate torque. Teh dynojet has no way of simulating vehicle load at speed. When you get the rollers rolling, it takes no more hp from the car to keep it there. The Mustang Dyno had the ability to artificially load the rollers to simulate car weight at speed, more closely representative of what is take to keep a XXXXlb car moving at speed. Both have correction factors but Mustang (or any load dyno) should give a better real world reading. Once you are tuned on a Mustang, there is little chance of it running leaner on the street then on the dyno like a DynoJet. Load dynos also run sweep tests in steady state mode which is a much slower and easier to read test. And they have more plot points and are a true measure of trq. I asked the same questions and came to the conclusion that the Mustang was the way to go to tune to my 100 map fuel grid. If you're tuning an SAFC with 10 grid map it prob doesn't matter as much. I was told on this board that the Mustang probably wasn't programmed properly by the authorized TEC, Motec, AEM and Hondata certified tech that owns the place http://www.b15sentra.net/forums/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif and that is the difference in numbers. I have searched teh net time again for Mustang vs DynoJet and have never found the DynoJet to read lower numbers. Try it. Datalogging at the track is the only true measure. For tuning pick one and stick with it. </td></tr></table>Quote:<table style='width: 100%'><tr><td> Inertia vs. loading dyno information Here we come to very interesting collision about chassis inertia dyno versus chassis loading dyno. Simple question which type of dynamometers is better for tuning cars? Or maybe in what cases should be used inertia or loading? Is it possible to tune car at partial throttle using inertia dyno? Before answering that question let's look at the main difference between an inertia dyno and a Dyno Dynamics eddy current dynamometer: An inertia dyno has a very heavy roller(s) and a speed measurement system. The car is run at full throttle. The more power the car has the quicker it can accelerate the heavy roller. Knowing the inertia of the roller and the acceleration it's a simple calculation to obtain power. A Dyno Dynamics eddy current dynamometer has very light weight rollers. It also has a speed measurement system. In addition the Dyno Dynamics has an electromagnetic retarder that apply a load to the rollers. This load is adjustable and it works at steady speed as well as when accelerating. The dyno operator (technician) can vary the load from almost zero to very large. Knowing the inertia of the rollers), the acceleration, and the load applied by the retarder it's a simple calculation to obtain power. OK, so what are the main differences from the motorist point of view? An inertia dyno cannot apply load unless the vehicle is accelerating. This makes it impossible to test a car on a level road at steady speed on flat roads or up hill, or slowing down due to hills etc. A Dyno Dynamics dynamometer can easily test a car on a level road at steady speed on flat roads or up hill, or slowing down due to hills etc. A Dyno Dynamics dynamometer can easily hold the vehicle at a say 50% throttle and 2,500 RPM while investigating a misfire that occurs under these conditions. Mapping the vehicles fuel and ignition computer is part of tuning any performance vehicle. How does an inertia dyno compare with an eddy current dyno? In it simplest form, â€œmappingâ€ a modern fuel injection computer involves: â€¢ holding the engine at a particular RPM point (say 3,000 RPM) â€¢ holding the throttle at a particular position (say 90% throttle) â€¢ observe Air:Fuel ratio â€¢ power and adjusting fuel and timing to achieve best results. This process is repeated at a large number of RPM points and throttle openings. when mapping is complete, the engine will have optimum ignition timing and fuelling at all points in it's operating range from idle through to max power. When steady mapping is complete, mapping whilst accelerating can be performed. Does this mean that mapping at full throttle is possible on an inertia dyno, but an eddy current dyno is required for mapping the entire engine range? Mapping at wide open throttle is possible on an inertia dyno in a limited way. For example, lets consider full throttle testing two cars with the same 150 HP engine. One car weighs 2,000 kg, the second car weighs 3,000 kg. On the road the heavier car will accelerate much slower than the lighter car. â€¢ On an inertia dyno both cars will accelerate at the same rate. â€¢ On a Dyno Dynamics dynamometer the operator can choose the rate (or let the software calculate the rate). The rate of acceleration affects not only the engines requirement for fuel etc, but also combustion chamber temperatures vary considerably with acceleration and time under load. These variances required different mapping values. As for atmospheric engines it seems clear, but what about forced induction? Is it safe to tune forced induction car on chassis loading dyno? Another side, will inertia dyno create enough resistance for engine to fully boost and produce maximum power? Accurate and repeatable dyno test results depend on accurately simulating conditions. With forced induction engines this is even more important. For example, a Dyno Dynamics dynamometer enables the operator to stabilize conditions prior to each graph test. If the engine is simply run to the desired starting speed, than given a foot full (sorry, wide open throttle suddenly applied), then conditions at the start of the test will vary and so test results will vary. Turbo lag is a very important factor when testing turbo engines. For accurate results the acceleration rate during graphing is critical. Inertia only dynos have no means of stabilization at the start, nor controlling acceleration during the test. </td></tr></table>Quote:<table style='width: 100%'><tr><td> Dynamometers: interview with Dyno Dynamics owner Chris Hodges Interview with Dyno Dynamics owner Chris Hodges. <table style='width: 100%'><tr><td> http://www.redline.lt/magazine/clear.gif</td><td>http://www.redline.lt/magazine/typo3temp/pics/0545027cae.jpghttp://www.redline.lt/magazine/clear.gif http://www.redline.lt/magazine/typo3temp/pics/244cf1d7fc.jpghttp://www.redline.lt/magazine/clear.gif http://www.redline.lt/magazine/typo3temp/pics/7cb663719b.jpghttp://www.redline.lt/magazine/clear.gif http://www.redline.lt/magazine/typo3temp/pics/9295481c63.jpghttp://www.redline.lt/magazine/clear.gif http://www.redline.lt/magazine/typo3temp/pics/7dfb1ba06a.jpghttp://www.redline.lt/magazine/clear.gif http://www.redline.lt/magazine/typo3temp/pics/3ed00a074a.jpghttp://www.redline.lt/magazine/clear.gif</td></tr></table> First of all maybe you could say how does company Dyno Dynamics borne and began developing dynamometers? Chris Hodges: My previous business Dynomotive was the leading workshop for quality work and accurate diagnosis in Melbourne, Victoria. At Dynomotive we used an eddy current dynamometer. It had some shortcomings but did a fair job. We could do things in five minutes that took five hours on the water brake and could never be done on an inertia dyno. People came from all over Victoria and interstate (even some from Perth over 3,000 km away in Western Australia) to get their cars (and trucks) â€œdyno tunedâ€. In Australia, water ski boats powered by big with five or six litre V8 engines are common. After experiencing the difference the â€œdynoâ€ made to their cars, a lot of my customers wanted us to â€œdynoâ€ their inboard boats as well. Well that was a problem. You can't fix what you can't test and diagnose! We couldn't even road test a boat without damaging the prop and scratching the road!! We needed a boat dyno! How did you go about making a boat dyno? With the help of my (now) business partner Peter Humphris (fitter, turner, toolmaker, mechanical genius), we made a crude dynamometer that connected to the propeller shaft. A friend, Alan Oxenbould (electronic genius) made the electronic control system. It sounds easy but it took us several years to get it working properly. It turns out, that if you join a V8 inside the boat, to a big retarder outside the boat, via a couple of yards of thin (1â€) stainless steel shaft, give it a foot-full at five and a half grand, make it cough, without breaking anything or tying shafts in a knot, you have invented one hell-of-a dyno control system. We boat â€œdyno tunedâ€ at night, and dyno tuned cars during the day. Because the boat dyno control system was so good, we decided to go into the dyno control system business. Also how does it happened, that "Dyno Dynamics" in lot cases became a dyno standrat (company Dyno Dynamics in most cases is mentioned with a very big respect)? I think that the main reason that Dyno Dynamics dynamometers have become the standard is because they have been designed by people who know how to use a dyno , rather than from the point of view of a design office. Peter, Alan and myself were very committed to making the best dynamometer in the world. In this we have been very successful. We have developed a very advanced yet simple design of roller chassis. The obvious things like roller design, vibration free beds, and hi traction roller surface have been designed to make the job of the dyno technician as easy and accurate as possible. The electronics we designed provide a very stable control systems, very steady readings and very high accuracy and repeatability. Here we come to very interesting collision about chassis inertia dyno versus chassis loading dyno. Simple question which type of dynamometers is better for tuning cars? Or maybe in what cases should be used inertia or loading? Is it possible to tune car at partial throttle using inertia dyno? Before answering that question let's look at the main difference between an inertia dyno and a Dyno Dynamics eddy current dynamometer: An inertia dyno has a very heavy roller(s) and a speed measurement system. The car is run at full throttle. The more power the car has the quicker it can accelerate the heavy roller. Knowing the inertia of the roller and the acceleration it's a simple calculation to obtain power. A Dyno Dynamics eddy current dynamometer has very light weight rollers. It also has a speed measurement system. In addition the Dyno Dynamics has an electromagnetic retarder that apply a load to the rollers. This load is adjustable and it works at steady speed as well as when accelerating. The dyno operator (technician) can vary the load from almost zero to very large. Knowing the inertia of the rollers), the acceleration, and the load applied by the retarder it's a simple calculation to obtain power. OK, so what are the main differences from the motorist point of view? An inertia dyno cannot apply load unless the vehicle is accelerating. This makes it impossible to test a car on a level road at steady speed on flat roads or up hill, or slowing down due to hills etc. A Dyno Dynamics dynamometer can easily test a car on a level road at steady speed on flat roads or up hill, or slowing down due to hills etc. A Dyno Dynamics dynamometer can easily hold the vehicle at a say 50% throttle and 2,500 RPM while investigating a misfire that occurs under these conditions. Mapping the vehicles fuel and ignition computer is part of tuning any performance vehicle. How does an inertia dyno compare with an eddy current dyno? In it simplest form, â€œmappingâ€ a modern fuel injection computer involves: â€¢ holding the engine at a particular RPM point (say 3,000 RPM) â€¢ holding the throttle at a particular position (say 90% throttle) â€¢ observe Air:Fuel ratio â€¢ power and adjusting fuel and timing to achieve best results. This process is repeated at a large number of RPM points and throttle openings. when mapping is complete, the engine will have optimum ignition timing and fuelling at all points in it's operating range from idle through to max power. When steady mapping is complete, mapping whilst accelerating can be performed. Does this mean that mapping at full throttle is possible on an inertia dyno, but an eddy current dyno is required for mapping the entire engine range? Mapping at wide open throttle is possible on an inertia dyno in a limited way. For example, lets consider full throttle testing two cars with the same 150 HP engine. One car weighs 2,000 kg, the second car weighs 3,000 kg. On the road the heavier car will accelerate much slower than the lighter car. â€¢ On an inertia dyno both cars will accelerate at the same rate. â€¢ On a Dyno Dynamics dynamometer the operator can choose the rate (or let the software calculate the rate). The rate of acceleration affects not only the engines requirement for fuel etc, but also combustion chamber temperatures vary considerably with acceleration and time under load. These variances required different mapping values. As for atmospheric engines it seems clear, but what about forced induction? Is it safe to tune forced induction car on chassis loading dyno? Another side, will inertia dyno create enough resistance for engine to fully boost and produce maximum power? Accurate and repeatable dyno test results depend on accurately simulating conditions. With forced induction engines this is even more important. For example, a Dyno Dynamics dynamometer enables the operator to stabilise conditions prior to each graph test. If the engine is simply run to the desired starting speed, than given a foot full (sorry, wide open throttle suddenly applied), then conditions at the start of the test will vary and so test results will vary. Turbo lag is a very important factor when testing turbo engines. For accurate results the acceleration rate during graphing is critical. Inertia only dynos have no means of stabilisation at the start, nor controlling acceleration during the test. I found what your company has established a "Code of practice", so you claim total honest between your tuning specialist and clients? Is this possible using dyno software to falsificate dyno run results and fool client? It is possible to fool the client by many means. Even something as simple as using full throttle or nearly full throttle will affect results. Dyno Dynamics Shootout software rules out cheating with software; the Code of Practise and other things rule out other forms of cheating due to the operator lack of honesty. </td></tr></table>Quote:<table style='width: 100%'><tr><td> Why our Dyno Dynamics dyno is better. <hr /> Why is a loading dyno (Dyno Dynamics) better than an inertia dyno (dynojet)? - Loading dynos are better than inertia dynos for a number of reasons. A) Steady State Tuning - Steady state tuning is the highlight of the loading dyno. Because the loading dyno uses an electric brake to keep the rollers from accelerating it is able to precisely vary how much load is placed on the cars engine. When the dyno exerts as much load on the engine as the engine is putting out, the rollers will stop accelerating and hold a constant speed. Because the engine is not accelerating we call this a steady state. During this time the dyno is measuring the load between the brake and the car and outputs a live power number. This is very useful for tuners because it allows them to make changes to each part of the ignition/fuel map and monitor the power gains or losses in real time. With an inertia dyno there is no way to keep the rollers from accelerating and therefore no way to hold a steady state. The engine simply accelerates through the ignition/fuel maps too quickly. B) More precise measurement - Because inertia dynos use a heavy mass to simulate the inertia of the car being tested it is hard to monitor minor changes in power. The large mass of the rollers results in very minor changes in roller speed that inertia dyno sensors have a hard time picking up. If the sensor and computer don't see the change in roller speed the the dyno graph will not show a dip in power. However, a loading dyno uses rollers with very little mass and directly measures power rather than calculating it. Quick drops in power will be picked up by the load sensor and will show on the dyno graph. This is very useful for finding problems and ensuring that your engine is running correctly. C) Load can be controlled - With an inertia dyno the load exerted on the engine as it accelerates is based on the inertia of the dyno rollers. This inertia is set by the mass of the rollers and is not able to be changed. The inertia of the dyno rollers directly determines how fast the cars engine will accelerate through each gear. Ideally this inertia would be equal to the inertia of the car being tested but this is rarely the case. The inertia is almost always going to be higher or lower than the inertia of the car and as a result the engine accelerates faster or slower than it would on the street. This can have a bearing on how the engine is tuned and how accurate the dyno replicates real life conditions. Because a loading dyno is able to actively alter the load on the rollers it is able to change the rate of acceleration as the operator pleases. Realistic loads for the particular vehicle can be used or loads simulating driving up a hill can be used. This is easily controlled by the dyno operator. D) Problem Diagnosis - This feature goes back to the ability to control load and do steady state tuning. A loading dyno is able to simulate road conditions in a safe environment while allowing the technician to monitor the car and it's engine. An inertia dyno is unable to accurately simulate all but a few road conditions making it much more difficult to diagnose problems.</td></tr></table>these articles are fromhttp://www.perfengine.com/dynoinfo.htmhttp://www.redline.lt/magazine/spec-features/article/article/16/1/http://www.tamparacing.com/forums/ellis-autoworkz/333003-why-our-dyno-dynamics-dyno-better.html</blockquote>

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