How to improve my car...B20b vtec.

[deacon]

Yeah that's what i thought. Looks like more efficient spark burns excess fuel which does help your engine gain more horsepower but 3-4 hp... a little for a lot of moolah.

Good luck to the OP in getting the Hytech header. Post pics please.

 

[akuma]

n do share on d price u got it for........even better if u post ur dyno graph here la8 on...kekekek

 

[YRvi]

Guys, i just wanna know you people with the B20's are using what size of exhaust piping? I think my 2.5inch is just too big for my H22A. Minor mods, just for soft-porn kinda driving style. I was thinking about 2.3inch.. so need to get your opinions around here.. Thanking all in advance. :wavey:

 

[deacon]

The only way to find out is to strap your H22A with 2.3 inch piping and exhaust on the dyno and get some numbers. Right after that swap out the 2.3 inch for 2.5 inch piping and exhaust and dyno again.

Some believe you get better torque with 2.3 inch. Others think 2.5 inch give you higher gains top end. I'm currently running on 2.3 inch piping with a 4-1 extractor and i feel less torque than i did with my 4-2-1. So i guess that your extractor should factor in as well, in terms of what sizes to go with.

What's the stock H22A pipe size? 2.1 inch like a DC2R?

 

[akuma]

UNLESS ur running an auto H22A,i dun c y d 2.5" piping won suit ur engine?FYI,i used 2 run 2.5" piping on my auto EG9....gain throughout entire rpm range(up to 8500rpm),even my FC improved.n yes,it was still a B16A.placement of mid-box & type of muffler used will determine d power characteristic too....dat's y ppl say a WHOLE system works better...i was running a full set RS*R exos system back thn.
even on my B16B now,i m running custom 2.5" mandrel-bent piping + replica MUGEN mid-box(1 of d BEST mid-box in d market!REALLY!) + 5Zigen Fireball muffler....i hit 171whp n ard 16.9kg/m of torque

 

[YRvi]

Mine is just a dumb stock H22A. The reason why i'd opt to change is, i'd want to try to fit DC2's piping(may need some mods) that came with BC spec2. Since BC Spec2 only came out for EG and DC2 fittings, I find it hard to match it to my car. Any suggestion?

 

[akuma]

never label any DOHC VTEC as dumb.even 4 a stock H22A,it's very well balanced frm d factory n it's power level shud b well respected.anyway,u still din mention wether ur car is an auto/manual.i'll assume it's an auto,n i wud suggest u swap back 2 d 4-2-1 extractor.
as 4 d piping,can i assume dat u've already purchased d BC Spec2?hehehe.so watta heck?pasang lar n c wat happens?good luck...

 

[consonar]

wow... really much input in this thread....
it is really great to read from the beginning thread as all otai/sifu *such as akuma
replying and sharing some knowledge...

later on hornydrifter will prangggggggggggg... sudah byk mod ni!!
u always minum2 at aman suria lagi ka? ingat mau lepak2 sembang2...

keep it up guys!!

 

[YRvi]

Akuma : hahaha.. my english so-so only, bahasa pasar they said stended pekak --> dumb stock. Yes, even as stock as it's this engine always give B-Series(average joe B-Series k) hard time on the road. Mine is manual trans with Mugen Header(4-2-1) custom 2.5 piping follow original bend till the end. I'm still sourcing for the Spec2, haven't bought it yet. At this moment I'm generating around 185whp with this setup(not only piping mods, i got very few others under my sleeve), the thing i'm worrying about is the compatibility of the 2.3 inch piping, would it mess up everything(drop the HP/Torque etc..)?

As for the BCS2, i really wanna pasang.. a friend of mine use it in his civic and most of the neighbours(including few blocks away) hate him liao.. I just wanna see how it performs on H-Series.

 

[akuma]

d nex person 2 label as sifu,i'll start charging 4 my inputs in here!hahahahha

YRvi,
MANUAL H22A n ur worried abt piping size?aw come on..like i sed,i was running 2.5" piping on my auto EG9 w EK9 4-2-1 extractor coz i wanted d 2.5" collector.n it's no slouch.even my current CRX is running almost d same set up..2.5" collector+2.5" piping,n i got more whp thn u.hehehehe....torque dun story lar..1.6 mah?so,stop worrying n JUST DO IT!hahaha.....

 

[consonar]

aiyah... akuma get angry already... ahahahhaha...

agree with akuma... stop worrying YRVi... and agree also with deacon 'The only way to find out is to strap your H22A with 2.3 inch piping and exhaust on the dyno and get some numbers. Right after that swap out the 2.3 inch for 2.5 inch piping and exhaust and dyno again.'

mine using b18b block + b18c upper section (intake, head ...blabla)... and do some head works...

akuma : honestly, in newbie and hope from your experience, how much hp can gain *estimate laa , with this setup :

-block b18b
-internal block is standard *no mods at all
-head b18c with b18cR cam, intake (head in mild mods, valve, spring, retainer)
-4-2-1 jasma extractor
- and totally porn gearbox OEM b18

coz im very2 new in this vtec.. turbo ok laa..

p/s: another Q, does HP will increase if we rechipped the ecu? i.e vtec kick early...

 

[akuma]

consonar,
ur avatar,is dat a pic of ur car?wat's w d num 04 on d rear window?wat sorta competition did u enter?n may i ask y u went 4 d B18B?due 2 cheap price or u tot d extra cc w d B18B will gif u more power & torque over a B18C?
i'll share 1 experience w u.i know of sum1 who did sumthg like u did,but w higher cams.netted almost 190whp.w MFactory ratios sum more.n yet his car was almost side by side w my 171whp(last time) CRX.if u ask me,it's almost a waste of time 2 play w d B18B.it was never meant 4 high rpm application.but thn,if u dun 1na go high rev n prefer low-mid torque,u shud haf gone 4 d B20,right?81mm vs 84mm,u do d math.hahahah...n abt ECU chipping/vtec kick in earlier.dis r not d factor dat increases hp,it's d tuning.engaging vtec too early might even hurt hp.
so,whr 2 send u my invoice?hahahahha

 

[consonar]

huahahahaha... invoice meh??? eekekkekekeke... got no money to give u laa akuma... govt workers dont get salary yet... poor already...

yup, im going for the cheap price... and that was the mistake... and summore like u figure it out. 'thought of the extra cc'... and after reading here and there, the answer is same like u provide here... even thou it is b18, it cant be the same of the b18c.. right akuma?? *correct me if im wrong...

competition? owhhh, that only a track day with my friends... enjoying a laps at Kg Gajah last year... just for a fun, to burst out all stress after a hell of work!!! ahahahha

akuma, care to share, why the b18b of your friends side by side with your 171hp?? even thou he net 190++ at that time, your engine is b16 right? can u explain, maybe in theory or technically about what happen between the b18b and yours b16 if im not mistaken..

as im read, b18b torque is low than 18c... and b18b cc is bigger due to bigger bore and stroke... am i right? but why b18c is better than b18b? *need answer as typical minds always said that bigger is better.. so, perhaps sifus can give a technically answer...

sorry guys, im newbie .. but hunger in downloading infos!!!!! sorry again


p/s: hornydrifter, sorry to use your thread for my Q&A... ekekeke.. later i belanja u teh tarik!

 

[YRvi]

Ok Ok, I shouldn't be worried anymore. Wahh B series with enormous HP.. I should learn more from you guys.. although not sharing the same CC, but do you mind sharing some info for a street setup? Stage 1 setting pls..

 

[deacon]

LS Vtec engines aren't bad but you first need to balance the crank and change pistons, either p30 or better. The longer stroke should give you more torque but again without a balanced crank you won't be able to successfully use all the gains of the some 40 odd extra cc.

I had a Mivec 4G93 last time without balancing the crank. It wasn't slow but there was a noticeable difference when compared with a balanced crank and same mods. I bring this up because the bore and stroke is identical to the B18B engine.

The B18B engine was never really designed for high revs, neither was the B20B. In actual fact finding a B20Z (high spec output than compared with B20B) might be better, but those engines are super old, like square boxy prelude 2nd generation old.

Besides going B20B bottom end will also require a balanced crank as well. Not sure about the pistons whether it is up to the task. And of course you will need to port match the head for the pistons = a lot of work. A B18B well sorted could do just fine if you ask me.

As for comparisons between a 190 and 170hp car. The difference could be gear ratios, weight of the car, tire grip etc etc. Hard to compare like that because all things are not equal.

Setting up your ECU to open Vtec earlier does work but does not increase horsepower. It can however improve your mid range power band by hopping on to the large cam early. That's about it.

If you want more info on LS Vtec engines do a search in honda-tech. The guys over there use those setups a lot as the base model DC2 over there comes with a B18B engine. Very common to find B16A heads on a B18B.

 

[akuma]

deacon mentioned a very strong point abt on the road performance.....weight,or 2 b more precise,power-to-weight ratio.weight of a CRX vs weight of a Civic EG,hehehe..u get d idea.n also,tho sum cars haf higher whp & torque,it's also important how dis figure is reached.
now i got another story 2 share.der used 2 b a heavily modded Civic EG,B16A,almost fully Skunk2 parts.netted 171whp too on d dyno.but his torque if i remember correctly,was quite weak.pitted it against my car n they tot der wud b sum fight.i was abt 1 to 1 1/2 cars length by 400m.n whn i told his mechanic i din even pull 2 max rec coz my shift light din even come on,he din believe me.how cud 171whp vs 171whp haf such a difference?it's whn i saw d EG's dyno graph i understand y.hell his 171 peak power is way way in d upper rpm range,n whn v switched d graph reading to whp vs time,d EG took abt 8.2s 2 reach his 171whp!n dat's SLOW!
so,in summary,it's how u put d power 2 d ground dat'll win u races.it's not really how much u got.

 

[consonar]

thanks a lot guys for giving such infos... you guys were really great!!!

btw, wanna ask summore (make useful of this thread, before hornydrifter come and whack me!!! lol.)
what is the actual meaning of hi revving? is it beyond the redline? or around 7-9? 7.5-9.5? 9-10? and what kinda type of B-series that is hi revving and not hi revving?



btw, im really appreciate all of those reply up there!! thanks akuma and deacon!!! :D

 

[deacon]

Akuma, totally agree, its not about how far your power band stretches but rather usable power through out the rev range. I myself prefer to have my peak power much before 8200rpm because my gearbox is long ratio. Shorter power band makes the longer ratios shorter, sorta.

The guy with all the S2 parts must be not happy with himself at all. Maybe the tune was wrong?

cosonar, most B series Vtec engines rev easily to around 8000rpm. But most only make peak horsepower at 7600rpm give or take 2 to 300rpm. Type R engines make more power higher, slightly above 8000rpm i believe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_B_engine

Read here for more info.

Non Vtec B series usually make power before 7000rpm hence why they usually need balancing when performing a Vtec frankenstein!!

 

[consonar]

same with me too... im also using long ratio gearbox as i usually travel a lot... but sometimes feel that wanna try short ratio also! lol.... but as my job need me to travel a lot, so im stick with long ratio laaa...

akuma : if im the s2 lotsa parts owner, sure i will cry ... like deacon said, maybe tuning going wrong somewhere.. or maybe akuma is very good joki! hahaha... *akuma got a lot of toyol! huaaahahahaha

so, now i want to go thru that b-series wiki that deacon give... wohhhhh, lotsa infos... need 2 day to download it to my newbie brain... nice info tho..

so, i think, i have no more question... finish already... my Question now was all answered!! thanks guys... my blurry head is now a bit clear! howwyeeee!

i think of keeping my engine in this mild mod.. no more upgrade !!!!!!!!! later if upgrade than devil will cucuk me and money will drain!!! no no no...

btw, thanks again guys!!!!! love u all so much!!

 

[akuma]

abt d S2 EG fella?he actually sold his car!hahahaha....got himself a DC2,modded now n supposed higher hp thn my current B16B CRX but he still lost 2 me 1 nyte whn v lined up @ d traffic light after supper.dis time i duno how is his power delivery coz i never bother 2 check out his dyno graph anymore.oh,my B16B was still in an untuned state dat nyte.i guess dat made d DC2 owner even more geram!hahahahahha..............

well,i dun really care who win who loose,who has more higher hp n who doesn't....i just like 2 make more frens w fellow enthusiast n hopefully can share more knowledge...der r still alot of stuffs i need 2 learn.i'm just lucky got myself a very potent chasis 2 start w n alot of good frens 2 help me guide me in my B16B build up.yes,it was fully stripped down whn i KOed my crankshaft bearing in SIC,rebuild by a sifu who builds alot of engines 4 MME n MSS.

n as for me,having peak power @ a much higher rpm range is more fun.dat's wat DOHC VTEC is all abt....high revving!but must also consider how ur engine gets der......as 4 mine,my power peaks @ 8300rpm now compared to 8600rpm b4 my rebuild.not much difference but i notice my rev climbs much faster now.now how i wish der is a quick release kit 4 our gearbox.long ratios 4 daily driver n a short ration 1 4 track abuse!hahahahahha