FWD vs RWD

[redridinghood86]

I love FR and especially MR cars, but one particular individual here is talking like as if FWD cars are worthless and it looks like he can control any car he wants.

U eat cili, u rasa pedas la ya? Try bringing a stock FD2R or DC5R and hit 2.45 in sepang first before you even badmouth FF cars the next time.

 

[achelone]

so its easy to hit that time in type r? if its so, u has a point....

 

[redridinghood86]

so its easy to hit that time in type r? if its so, u has a point....

not easy but there are people "non pros" who hit around 2.42 with a relatively stock car, hearsay but they aren't really big talkers if you know what I mean. HMRT took a bone stock car and did 2.42, hearsay again but I believe because some individuals I know had clocked 2.41 with just semi slicks n some minor bolt ons with the speed cut still intact

 

[achelone]

the only gripe of FF is it can't put too much hp without having torque steer on throttle otherwise its still fast and i think easier to drive compared to fr to the fullest....hence alfas, honda, VW ff car is still faster compared to certain fr sports car...

 

[elsm80]

Pros
RWD - allows you adjustability and some control when you exceed a chassis's limit of traction.
FWD - the chassis's limit of traction is easily accessible to the driver and once exceeded, easily modulated.
MR - Stable chassis with high traction limits, is also balanced and neutral in most cases.

Cons
RWD - You need to know how to really drive in order to access its advantages as you have to drive beyond the chassis to extract full advantage. For example:- A fully built RWD should be quicker than an equivalent FWD car in most situations. The problem is if you are a novice driver, you cannot access the advantages of the RWD chassis as easily as the FWD's. As a result, FWD cars rule (in certain classes) on tracks where the drivers are not of a certain level, e.g. Sepang as most of us (me included) are not of the requisite experience or skill to fully exploit RWD.
FWD - Once you have exceeded the chassis's traction limit, there's not much you can do. Back off the gas....that's about it. Don't get me wrong, they are still deadly fast esp the new gen FWD's with their LSDs and trick suspension geometry. Problem is and this is for certain parties only, is that FWDs ultimately lack the drama and emotion that comes with on the limit driving. Its like a 9 out of 10, a very good score but not the "perfect" score.
MR - The deadliest of the 3 (Bar the RR layout). Super sharp turn in, neutral through the corners BUT (dependent on the setup) get it wrong and it WILL spit you out like nothing else. You get adjustability, agility and (most) of the time, supreme stability. The trick is again being able to drive beyond and predict it on the limit behaviour. Master it and nothing comes close.

My personal preference is for the MR but given a choice and on most days...4wd takes the cake. No need to think, just drive.

 

[D7zul]

Pros
RWD - allows you adjustability and some control when you exceed a chassis's limit of traction.
FWD - the chassis's limit of traction is easily accessible to the driver and once exceeded, easily modulated.
MR - Stable chassis with high traction limits, is also balanced and neutral in most cases.

Cons
RWD - You need to know how to really drive in order to access its advantages as you have to drive beyond the chassis to extract full advantage. For example:- A fully built RWD should be quicker than an equivalent FWD car in most situations. The problem is if you are a novice driver, you cannot access the advantages of the RWD chassis as easily as the FWD's. As a result, FWD cars rule (in certain classes) on tracks where the drivers are not of a certain level, e.g. Sepang as most of us (me included) are not of the requisite experience or skill to fully exploit RWD.
FWD - Once you have exceeded the chassis's traction limit, there's not much you can do. Back off the gas....that's about it. Don't get me wrong, they are still deadly fast esp the new gen FWD's with their LSDs and trick suspension geometry. Problem is and this is for certain parties only, is that FWDs ultimately lack the drama and emotion that comes with on the limit driving. Its like a 9 out of 10, a very good score but not the "perfect" score.
MR - The deadliest of the 3 (Bar the RR layout). Super sharp turn in, neutral through the corners BUT (dependent on the setup) get it wrong and it WILL spit you out like nothing else. You get adjustability, agility and (most) of the time, supreme stability. The trick is again being able to drive beyond and predict it on the limit behaviour. Master it and nothing comes close.

My personal preference is for the MR but given a choice and on most days...4wd takes the cake. No need to think, just drive.

good explanation..

for me, i prefer FR rather than MR.. coz FR doesn't punish u when u make mistake (spin out)..

i've seen an MR2 trying to drift.. not an easy task..

and FR rules in the drift world

but MR is good in circuits..

 

[khoo198]

http://www.drivingfast.net/track/engine-driveline.htm

 

[Izso]

Aiya.. FF cars are designed for noobies to survive in a "situation". Noobies like me would die a miserable and horrible death if driving a FR when diving into a wet corner too fast.

It's usually instinct that'll make a noobie like me jam the brakes when faced with a situation like oversteer or understeer and I believe oversteer will have me killed faster.

But for experienced drivers I suspect FR is more fun. May not be faster but definitely more fun. All those TV hosts like Tiff Needle, Vicky Henderson, Jeremy Clarkson and all pretty much confirm this.

Honestly who really cares FF or FR or MR is faster? It really should be about the driving experience. If it makes you smile everytime you floor the pedal then that car is a good car.

 

[g4i8y0t]

I love FR and especially MR cars, but one particular individual here is talking like as if FWD cars are worthless and it looks like he can control any car he wants.

U eat cili, u rasa pedas la ya? Try bringing a stock FD2R or DC5R and hit 2.45 in sepang first before you even badmouth FF cars the next time.

Just like our friend above said, FF is for noobies. FR, MR, RR and AWD are for pros, nuff said..

 

[Veloc]

I use to love FR and AWD and hate FF. But now, I love them all.

FF made for noobies? Not entirely true or false. It is true that FF is more biased towards inducing understeer for safety.

But having said that, there are high performance FF cars too. Such as the FD2R, DC5, Celica etc... I don't think these beast are for noobies right?

The difference is just in the style of racing.FF are for grip and high G force cornering. FR and MR are more to drift. AWD are good for drift and grip racing as well... Its just different category guys...

 

[redridinghood86]

Just like our friend above said, FF is for noobies. FR, MR, RR and AWD are for pros, nuff said..

I won't disagree that FF cars are must easier to handle, I must admit that despite being a Type R owner, I am planning to buy a Lotus car IF I HAVE THE CASH LA, mainly because it is an MR and is very close to a go kart, which is why I love it.

I have no problem with people saying that RWD provides more fun, but I do have a problem with people saying that FF cars are worthless. I agree to a certain extent that FF cars are for noobies, but let's not forget about AWD, how is it not a car for the "Noobies" (No offence to the AWD owners, this is only a reminder to those who looks down at front wheel drives). Especially with all the traction powering out from the apex.

Don't be a keyboard warrior buddy, come out, pinjam an FD2R, if u want, I loan you mine, if you can get 2.45 I shut up, forever, mine is not stock so 2.45 shouldn't be a problem to great drivers like you. However, if you can't, just pay for the track fees n some compensation to the tyres la eh? Tyres expensive la :) How's that?

---------- Post added at 09:35 AM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 09:34 AM ----------

Pros
RWD - allows you adjustability and some control when you exceed a chassis's limit of traction.
FWD - the chassis's limit of traction is easily accessible to the driver and once exceeded, easily modulated.
MR - Stable chassis with high traction limits, is also balanced and neutral in most cases.

Cons
RWD - You need to know how to really drive in order to access its advantages as you have to drive beyond the chassis to extract full advantage. For example:- A fully built RWD should be quicker than an equivalent FWD car in most situations. The problem is if you are a novice driver, you cannot access the advantages of the RWD chassis as easily as the FWD's. As a result, FWD cars rule (in certain classes) on tracks where the drivers are not of a certain level, e.g. Sepang as most of us (me included) are not of the requisite experience or skill to fully exploit RWD.
FWD - Once you have exceeded the chassis's traction limit, there's not much you can do. Back off the gas....that's about it. Don't get me wrong, they are still deadly fast esp the new gen FWD's with their LSDs and trick suspension geometry. Problem is and this is for certain parties only, is that FWDs ultimately lack the drama and emotion that comes with on the limit driving. Its like a 9 out of 10, a very good score but not the "perfect" score.
MR - The deadliest of the 3 (Bar the RR layout). Super sharp turn in, neutral through the corners BUT (dependent on the setup) get it wrong and it WILL spit you out like nothing else. You get adjustability, agility and (most) of the time, supreme stability. The trick is again being able to drive beyond and predict it on the limit behaviour. Master it and nothing comes close.

My personal preference is for the MR but given a choice and on most days...4wd takes the cake. No need to think, just drive.

As much as I hate to disagree with you, LOL, this is one of the if not the most sensible posts here.

 

[g4i8y0t]

Hmm, maybe I was a little harsh in saying FF is for noobies. My apologies... But redridinghood86, if FF is 'that' good, why don't you write letters to Ferrari, Lambo, Porsche, Pagani, Lotus, Jaguar, Maserati, Ariel, BMW and Mercedes to tell them that they should think again about their drive layout? About your offer, it sounds great! But I prefer a non FF car so I can compare it to yours.

 

[akuma]

It's great 2 c so many good references n links brought up in here 4 sum healthy discussion.....n IF i may add in,dis kinda topic,very hard 2 distinguish whc 1 is better....it's simliar 2 NA vs Forced Induction,whc is better?both camps will come out n "argue" dat their way is THE better way,right?ahahahaaha......
so,let's chill....keep thgs healthy..no bashing..no flaming.....

Personally,IF I can afford it...i'd like 2 own BOTH a FF & FR(quite dislike MR coz i had sum pretty bad experience w MR2s,hehehehe)......mod both 2 similiar power level n time myself in SIC.....thn prolly i can tell myself whc 1 is d better layout or @ least i'll know my driving style is more suited 4 FF or FR.but d truth is,i can't afford 2 own both....heheheeh..pity me....

+i'd like 2 add my disappointment abt redridinghood86's offer....YES,i'm offended..n u KNOW WHY!...shilakak u......nvm,i'll curse ur FD2R 2 b FOREVER slower thn my FF!hahahahahahhaha

 

[redridinghood86]

Hmm, maybe I was a little harsh in saying FF is for noobies. My apologies... But redridinghood86, if FF is 'that' good, why don't you write letters to Ferrari, Lambo, Porsche, Pagani, Lotus, Jaguar, Maserati, Ariel, BMW and Mercedes to tell them that they should think again about their drive layout? About your offer, it sounds great! But I prefer a non FF car so I can compare it to yours.

Did I not say that I prefer RWDs? I just find it annoying to see people like you belittling FWDs like as if you can drive FWDs without having problems tackling t7,8,11,12,13,14.

It seems that you are trying very hard to defend yourself, read it back, tell me whether did I say that FF cars are superior or do I have to remind you that I love MR and FR cars.

OH YEAH!!!! What happened to your AWD MONSTER against a certain FF orange CRX in SIC? When is it gonna happen?

 

[AE111_SEG]

wah.. this thread has gotten hot!!!... Lets not compare which is faster?. FF cars have they advantage against FR cars and visa versa.... Lets not put down FF cars cos there are good cars
that work well in this configuration.....

 

[Veloc]

I won't disagree that FF cars are must easier to handle, I must admit that despite being a Type R owner, I am planning to buy a Lotus car IF I HAVE THE CASH LA, mainly because it is an MR and is very close to a go kart, which is why I love it.

I have no problem with people saying that RWD provides more fun, but I do have a problem with people saying that FF cars are worthless. I agree to a certain extent that FF cars are for noobies, but let's not forget about AWD, how is it not a car for the "Noobies" (No offence to the AWD owners, this is only a reminder to those who looks down at front wheel drives). Especially with all the traction powering out from the apex.

Don't be a keyboard warrior buddy, come out, pinjam an FD2R, if u want, I loan you mine, if you can get 2.45 I shut up, forever, mine is not stock so 2.45 shouldn't be a problem to great drivers like you. However, if you can't, just pay for the track fees n some compensation to the tyres la eh? Tyres expensive la :) How's that?

---------- Post added at 09:35 AM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 09:34 AM ----------


As much as I hate to disagree with you, LOL, this is one of the if not the most sensible posts here.

Did I not say that I prefer RWDs? I just find it annoying to see people like you belittling FWDs like as if you can drive FWDs without having problems tackling t7,8,11,12,13,14.

It seems that you are trying very hard to defend yourself, read it back, tell me whether did I say that FF cars are superior or do I have to remind you that I love MR and FR cars.

OH YEAH!!!! What happened to your AWD MONSTER against a certain FF orange CRX in SIC? When is it gonna happen?

Very well said bro...

 

[g4i8y0t]

wah.. this thread has gotten hot!!!... Lets not compare which is faster?. FF cars have they advantage against FR cars and visa versa.... Lets not put down FF cars cos there are good cars
that work well in this configuration.....

yup, both drive layout have pros and cons, but FF has got more cons than pros..

 

[munky]

to put it in simple terms...if you want to move a mass/object...pushing will be easier than pulling it...anytime every time...even when applying the same amount of force...that why when a car stalls....people push it...not pull it...if still want to pull...better call a tow truck... :stupid:

why do u say FWD = pulling? U can still push a car from the front what. Lets say ur standing in the engine bay area of a front engined car, and want to go forward, r u going to turn around and pull the body or r u going to just face forward and push it? U get what i mean?

 

[Veloc]

yup, both drive layout have pros and cons, but FF has got more cons than pros..

Haha! Very argumentative my friend! But I would say, it depends on who is driving and under what condition. If you give an uncle a car to drive in wet conditions, then FF will have more pros lo...

Bro, have you tried really good FF? When you do, you will not forget the fun ...

Drift with FR, Bit and drip with FR, Drift or grip with AWD. See!

I keep open and appreciate every kind of drive train because each has its own character. There's no bad or good. However, I am a bit skeptical to MR because of the stories I heard :hmmmm:. I heard that a badly balances or poorly engineered MR will be disastrous and out of control. One example is the previous gen MR2.

 

[g4i8y0t]

Well, I've driven an eg civic with b18c and ceffy a31 with RB20 engine, both belong to friends. Both cars have good suspension setup with adjustables, arb, strut bars etc. Although the eg is faster, but I enjoyed the ceffy more. It's certainly easier to handle. The steering feels more 'pure' and the car turns (or should I say rotates?) in corners easier. At that time, after driving FF cars for so long, I was quite surprised. In the eg, I can feel there's something heavy in front. Not a nice feeling. There were no under or oversteer when I drove the cars. Maybe I wasn't driving fast enough and the road were dry. (Friends' car maa.. didn't dare to do anything silly :big grin:. Bet if the ceffy got RB26 motor inside, it'll smoke the eg in a heartbeat.