Enquiry regarding a thead

[fstr]

wahh i say liddat say threat edi kah??

i say that to almost everyone wor, how???

 

[TitanRev]

Infernal, not siding anyone but what 5115 did was to stop an argument from starting or keep fueling the fire. If flaming was to be ignored the thread would end up like a wet market argument with personal attacks flying here and there. Arguments always turn into personal attacks very fast. I've seen this. It's not easy being a Mod. I don't feel good when locking up thread but we have to sometimes.

I also don't like being harsh to members because, we are all friends with the same interest and we live under the same virtual roof. Not nice to fight with your roommates right? but sometimes being the nice guys people will ignore your advice or warning so harder action have to be taken. I hope what happens in the forum stays in the forum and let us not carry the hate or anger to TT or when we meet someday outside.

Just my 2 kupang.

 

[infernaL]

fstrader, I'm not sure myself, hope its not la or not alot of threads would need to be locked , since the thread is not locked yet maybe we can talk here ?

TitanRev, yeah i get 5115's intentions. But locking the thread is unnecessary at times where there is more to be discussed despite replies not being politically correct. Well, we won't know who would take it personally and its a grey area as to the acceptable level of sarcasm/flames before things get out of hand. I'm just stating my opinion on this grey area, no personal attacks intended, just for the improvement of the forums.

 

[Tom]

hi infernal and everyone,

My intentions of locking the affected "Supra" thread was due to most of the reasons as listed by 5115. I understand that such threads should be allowed to continue, but there is in fact too many unnecessary comments, even after the man himself stepped up to make a statement.

However, I am trying to come up with a solution to allow users to rate and filter out useless comments by potential flamers. -forever.

thanks for raising the issue

Tom

 

[mizunori77]

hi infernal,

its not hard to let a thread go whichever way it 'goes'. the difficult thing is to be able to see the 'trend' and make sure nothing gets too personal or out-of-hand. firstly, it is not easy to moderate or maintain a forum and this forum is read by many many individuals from different countries. if you own a forum or you are being tasked as a moderator to look after the forum, you have a responsibility of keeping the best interests of the forum, sponsors and members. when topics get out-of-hand, moderators have to step in be it giving warnings or totally locking up the thread. what is so difficult to understand about that?

imagine that the forum is your house now. you have some guests at your house and you guys were chit chatting. suddenly, a topic of discussion becomes a heated exchange of words. will you still allow them to continue because 'one guy is rude, then he deserves to be treated the same way'? you don't mind people fighting in your house? even if you don't mind, other house owners will mind.

it is the same thing here. as a guest in this forum, even though we have registered and have been active in this forum, there is still a code of conduct to be followed. so does the moderators. they are also doing their job. why are you so sure that 5115 just wanna throw his weight around and lock up threads whenever he likes? because he won't let the members to 'taruh' each other till you have answers to your own questions? how about taking advice from fstrader and pm the driver directly for his side of the story or starting a new topic about young kids with fast cars and start the debate again? or are you more interested in seeing people 'fight' in forums?

 

[infernaL]

Tom, you do what you do best. Keep the good stuff coming.

mizunori77,

As stated earlier in this thread, I've mentioned that the replies have valid points but are just not politically correct. I'm sure the replies don't mean harm even though their rude/childish etc. Just because the "guests" are a little crude doesn't mean they can't have a conversation no ?. Wouldn't such manners reflect badly on the "guests" themselves and not the home owner for inviting the "guests" the first place ?.

I agree there are code of conducts to be followed, but not everybody is the same."Taruh-ing" as you put it is a good way to generate discussions in the forums, by letting the thread run its course and only lock it when it personal threats arise. Otherwise a warning would suffice ?

Like you said there are interest to be protected, most importantly sponsors, they pay the bills. Wouldn't more discussion irregardless of whether its polite or rude add value to the forum as long the points come across ?. Hence the inquiry for the thread being unnecessarily locked.

I guess this is a case of prohibition (any politically incorrect replies or other opinions = thread lock) vs regulation ( let the thread roll, irregardless of the type of replies as long there is no personal threats) at the end.

Yeah your assumption is correct, I would like to see more "taruh-ing" in the forums as it generates discussion. My questions are rather suggestions of how the thread may continue but not since its locked prematurely. We all fear the day where insult/flames become faux pas and would turn into constructive arguments.

Anyways, if I want to see proper "taruh-ing"s there is other places to watch lol.

 

[fstr]

why dont u address ur long reply to TOM instead of mizunori?

 

[infernaL]

Because Tom agrees that such threads should be allowed to continue ? LOL

 

[5115]

had told you to read the trend of replies but seems like you just can't accept the fact that those replies it's getting worse.

and if im powertrip,i believe you couldn't post since yesterday.keeping this thread alive is just to show to others how childish you are on jumping your leg for the 2 threads.

To all:

Please DO NOT Post if you have nothing to say.

Due to the increasing number of useless* threads/posts/replies, It has caused much uncalled-for frustration.

This drastically stunts the growth of Zerotohundred.com as well as it reflects the maturity level of people in this part of the world.

*Useless
-Uncalled for posts/threads
-Immature posts/threads
-Non-beneficial posts/threads
-Off-topic posts
-Posts/Threads without much thought
+More will be added without prior notice

These frustrating immature posts comes from irresposible and un-patriotic invididuals that do not command decent amount of general knowledge and yet wishes to comment on something they have no idea about.

For the benefit of all users, Zerotohundred.com will no longer tolerate such behaviours. Such intolerable members with intolerable behaviours will be classified as worthless members.

Zerotohundred.com remove all worthless posts from non-beneficial members with no further consideration.

There will be no obligation to explain the reasons behind which is already clear.

These actions will be and requires the contribution of other members. Such contributions may come in as a post/thread report or emails to us

Again, PLEASE DO NOT POST IF YOU HAVE NOTHING TO SAY.

Thank you
Tom

i agree that advise should be given in threads before any deletion or lock,i did it on plenty threads but not all threads worth to drop a message.it's just like those sales thread in forum instead of marketplace,do i really need to pm them or reply in their thread?in fact i remove to delete max up to 30 threads/day.there are 80k over member here & thousands over members log in EVERYDAY.rules were set to control the forum & there rules are there for you to read.don't come & cry about it when you break the rules.

do you screw a policeman when he gives you speeding ticket?did u tell him "i have not kill anybody yet,so why the hell you giving me this ticket"?lol...

i closed the thread because of nitrus?and now do i need to open the thread just because of you?i don't need you to tell me how/what to do since you have no idea what happened in here.

To all loyal and new members,

Thanks for supporting Zerotohundred.com and welcome aboard.

We wish you enjoy your surf here

Recently we have found much UN-NEEDED lame postings.

Don't be annoyed. Zerotohundred.com is not being unfriendly but is trying to make the forums more useful to the public who needs their questions answered and etc.

as noticed, some topics are unnecessarily laughed at, critisized at, commented at, diverted from and so on.

To be a useful and resourceful forum, all posts and topics need to be realistic and useful.

I hope everyone understands what i'm trying to stress here..

To critics and lamers
Yes, It is a free world,
Yes, Zerotohundred.com is a free forum
You don't own Zerotohundred, I do,
Zerotohundred.com doesn't owe you anything, you don't pay to it
So please make Zerotohundred.com a better place. for everyone

As mentioned,
please do not post if you:

-have nothing useful to add to the topic
-don't know what you're saying
-just want to post smileys
-are childish
-don't know what's the answer
-trying to be funny
-are not interested in what the topic is trying to sell
-are asking silly questions
-are diverting from the topic
-are trying to be funny posting the whole thing in another language other than English
-are trying to be unfriendly


the list goes on and on.

basically what this Warning actually mean is:
Please don't be LAME.

lame posts will be deleted and lamers will be banned.

Thanks,

Tom
Webmaster
Zerotohundred.com

replying your post in patient doesn't mean you are above anyone,the purpose is to educate some lamer out there how funny it could be when you never read the rules & cry for nothing.

as for your "Removing link of the "other places" for the best interest of the forum LOL ",there wasn't any link & that's the thing worth to LOL

sorry for the long reply today as i was kinda busy yesterday

---------- Post added at 10:23 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:50 AM ----------

Because Tom agrees that such threads should be allowed to continue ? LOL

obviously it show's that you can't really read.

hi infernal and everyone,

My intentions of locking the affected "Supra" thread was due to most of the reasons as listed by 5115. I understand that such threads should be allowed to continue, but there is in fact too many unnecessary comments, even after the man himself stepped up to make a statement.

However, I am trying to come up with a solution to allow users to rate and filter out useless comments by potential flamers. -forever.

thanks for raising the issue

Tom

i always prefer reply with a manner way but since your statement has come in a bad way,i guess no point to be patience on you.

 

[K_Takuya]

Dear Infernal,

I would be glad to repeat what i said before.

Anyone, including you is allowed to open a new thread linked to the closed thread. Please do so if there's anything you wish to learn or discuss on the same topic.

Its obvious whatever you, me or others said here wont let the closed thread reopen again.

Just open a thread, we will see where it goes together..

 

[mizunori77]

Tom, you do what you do best. Keep the good stuff coming.

mizunori77,

As stated earlier in this thread, I've mentioned that the replies have valid points but are just not politically correct. I'm sure the replies don't mean harm even though their rude/childish etc. Just because the "guests" are a little crude doesn't mean they can't have a conversation no ?. Wouldn't such manners reflect badly on the "guests" themselves and not the home owner for inviting the "guests" the first place ?.

in a way, yes, it reflects badly on the guests and not the homeowner initially but if the homeowner ALLOWS things to get out of hand, what will the other guests think of the homeowner? :rolleyes:

I agree there are code of conducts to be followed, but not everybody is the same."Taruh-ing" as you put it is a good way to generate discussions in the forums, by letting the thread run its course and only lock it when it personal threats arise. Otherwise a warning would suffice ?

i don't quite understand. if code of conducts are to be followed, what do you mean by 'not everybody is the same"? do you mean that there are some who are exempted from following the codes of conduct?

Like you said there are interest to be protected, most importantly sponsors, they pay the bills. Wouldn't more discussion irregardless of whether its polite or rude add value to the forum as long the points come across ?. Hence the inquiry for the thread being unnecessarily locked.

how can rude comments add value to a forum? you mean calling someone 'wasted sperm' adds value to a forum? i'm curious about your personal values.

I guess this is a case of prohibition (any politically incorrect replies or other opinions = thread lock) vs regulation ( let the thread roll, irregardless of the type of replies as long there is no personal threats) at the end.

of course it is. the mods have work to do. they don't get mod status for looking pretty. what's wrong with them doing their job? if they have overstepped their boundaries, forum members can always highlight the matter to Tom. since Tom made a statement earlier about why the thread was closed, doesn't it mean that Tom acknowledges that the moderator acted according to the rules? by pursuing this, aren't you in a way, questioning the house owner why he did what he did in his own house?

Yeah your assumption is correct, I would like to see more "taruh-ing" in the forums as it generates discussion. My questions are rather suggestions of how the thread may continue but not since its locked prematurely. We all fear the day where insult/flames become faux pas and would turn into constructive arguments.

Anyways, if I want to see proper "taruh-ing"s there is other places to watch lol.

like fstrader said, there's always the option of creating a new thread with just a few clicks of your mouse. :wavey:

---------- Post added at 11:45 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:43 AM ----------

Because Tom agrees that such threads should be allowed to continue ? LOL

which part?

 

[infernaL]

5115,

btw,zth will not allow a "fair game" by shooting each other with rude statement.

i always prefer reply with a manner way but since your statement has come in a bad way,i guess no point to be patience on you

contradict much ?

Re the powertrip, I guess it would come from you editing such posts in your mentioned case, for example - http://www.zerotohundred.com/newfor...tri-gti-wanna-used-4throttle-from-4age-2.html

cheers

anyway just to let u all know i've regretted on all my lame posts & threads...

thanks for being so understanding to watch me acting like a fool

Wouldn't that be abusing moderation powers ?. BTW isn't this a perfect example of fair game by a mod himself ?

i agree that advise should be given in threads before any deletion or lock,i did it on plenty threads but not all threads worth to drop a message.it's just like those sales thread in forum instead of marketplace,do i really need to pm them or reply in their thread?in fact i remove to delete max up to 30 threads/day.there are 80k over member here & thousands over members log in EVERYDAY.rules were set to control the forum & there rules are there for you to read.don't come & cry about it when you break the rules.

do you screw a policeman when he gives you speeding ticket?did u tell him "i have not kill anybody yet,so why the hell you giving me this ticket"?lol...

i closed the thread because of nitrus?and now do i need to open the thread just because of you?i don't need you to tell me how/what to do since you have no idea what happened in here.

Dude, I'm gonna stop here because this discussion is going no where, there are better replies made to reply too.

K Takuya, Can you please re-read my posts made and understand this as a moderation issue (locking threads too soon and not understanding how some posts may be politically incorrect by contain valid points) rather the the topic itself ( yay rich dad bought supra, kid had an accident, lets bash).

Mizunori,

in a way, yes, it reflects badly on the guests and not the homeowner initially but if the homeowner ALLOWS things to get out of hand, what will the other guests think of the homeowner?

In no way i was suggesting to allow things to get out of hand. I was merely suggesting that flames be allowed and threads locked once personal threats (things getting out of hand) arise. IIRC, i have stated this in my reply earlier.

i don't quite understand. if code of conducts are to be followed, what do you mean by 'not everybody is the same"? do you mean that there are some who are exempted from following the codes of conduct?

Not everybody is the same - not everybody can express themselves clearly, sometimes using a rude/exaggerated words (not being politically correct). That doesn't mean a point cant be made. Think Jeremy Clarkson/Top Gear.

how can rude comments add value to a forum? you mean calling someone 'wasted sperm' adds value to a forum? i'm curious about your personal values.

Easy ? Rude comment = Flamebait for "taruh-ing" by constructive comments. For example DarkChild's reply in the supra thread ?. Isn't that value ?.

of course it is. the mods have work to do. they don't get mod status for looking pretty. what's wrong with them doing their job? if they have overstepped their boundaries, forum members can always highlight the matter to Tom. since Tom made a statement earlier about why the thread was closed, doesn't it mean that Tom acknowledges that the moderator acted according to the rules? by pursuing this, aren't you in a way, questioning the house owner why he did what he did in his own house?

LDO, then why did I bother to create this thread in the first place.

like fstrader said, there's always the option of creating a new thread with just a few clicks of your mouse.

Non issue, please read my general reply below.

which part?

My intentions of locking the affected "Supra" thread was due to most of the reasons as listed by 5115. I understand that such threads should be allowed to continue, but there is in fact too many unnecessary comments, even after the man himself stepped up to make a statement.

I'm taking this as Tom also understands that not all posters are politically correct and as later mentioned thinking of features to tackle this issue specifically rather then the current action (thread lock).


Finally, I would like to reiterate, there is value in allowing "taruh-ing" to occur as in the long run, quality posts would increase (as mentioned earlier - We all fear the day where insult/flames become faux pas and would turn into constructive arguments.).

Obviously, some of you have misunderstood my posts or rather acknowledging it word for word and what it actually means or rather view the post in a negative manner. It may seem out of the norm but irregardless of whether the comment is rude or drenched in sarcasm I guess its the intent that matters.

Cheers.

 

[5115]

Hilarious!

5115,


contradict much ?

not exactly,im just doing what you mean by a fair game.i tried to talk in patience at the 1st place,tried to tell you what/how im doing but do you listen on what i tried to tell?obviously not,to handle a lamer,there are options:ignore him,warn/ban him or talk with him with his level of thinking,i choose the last 1.


Re the powertrip, I guess it would come from you editing such posts in your mentioned case, for example - http://www.zerotohundred.com/newfor...tri-gti-wanna-used-4throttle-from-4age-2.html

sorry,like you said...you have no idea so don't simply put such statement on me.many of our members here know how it happened.go figure it out yourself,you are nobody to judge me anyway.lol



Dude, I'm gonna stop here because this discussion is going no where, there are better replies made to reply too.

Ya,you did said you gonna stop since day one & here you are....lol

We all keep answering your doubts but you choose to ignore what we've asked.Did you ever screw the traffic office when he give you a ticket?did you went to your friend's house & keep telling him he is a wasted sperm or his wife looks terrible,try to discuss how to sleep his wife?try once & you will get the same answer here.

Seems like your strength is ignoring our questions & keep quoting our answers then put it in your way,hopefully you could strength up your mind on answering questions after this.

Some audience here might feel stupid when reading all the replies above,what i can tell is, there are many ways to handle a lamer,answering their questions seems fun actually.

By the way,how's your feeling in a fair game?shall we keep it going or you prefer someone to handle this?

 

[K_Takuya]

Heres my statement in bullet point;

a) Thread open, replies of negative more obvious then positive
b) A mod closed the thread
c) Infernal questioned why need to close. infernal can see theres maybe
something good about it
d)A new topic opened and ask why mod closed the previous thread
e)The mod replied why he made the decision
f)Infernal voice out his opinions
g)The mod stand by his reason still
h)Infernal voiced out again
i)Few other mod including forumer join in the thread explaining the
reason why it should be closed, in their own point of view
j)Until now, Infernal is the only one against in, at least the only one
visible to us all in the forum
k)Solution given if anybody really think need to open a new topic related to the previous,
just proceed to do so
l) Mods repeatedly explained in their own words why the thread need to
be closed
m)Infernal still questioned the mod decision
n)Mods answered again
0)Infernal still questioned the mod decision
p)Mods answered again
q)Infernal still questioned the mod decision
r)Mods answered again
....................................................................(keep repeating)

 

[TitanRev]

I agree with you infernal that a warning should be given if things start to go wrong but most of the time our warning are ignored. Hence, we have no choice to be strict. When I see a post going the wrong way I would warn the posters but mostly the reply I get was some guy trying to be funny and tell me to cool down and don't get heated up so fast and make fun of me. I don't blame them for that. Still I will give a warning to poster before I locked it up, that's my way of moderation but other mods have different ways of handling the forum so I can't judge or teach them how should they moderate. For that thread, things was already quite messy so warning wouldn't do much help.

Actually mods in ZTH is quite loose already if compare to some overseas forum which their mods don't tolerate at all.

 

[- D i a b l o -]

I must say this is a really good thread because it has finally brought out a good healthy discussion on how to improve the forum.

Regardless of the views and opinions of the mods vs Infernal,Im obliged to thank him because he brought out a good point where the mods can learn on how to be a better moderator. As for the repeated attempt on clarifying the situation on why the lock hammer was banged,I'd say I can see eye to eye with him that he is trying to state the issue of moderation rather then the issue.

Yes both sides made valid points and since K Takuya pointed out that

I quote

"i)Few other mod including forumer join in the thread explaining the
reason why it should be closed, in their own point of view
j)Until now, Infernal is the only one against in, at least the only one
visible to us all in the forum"

I am inclined to participate in this discussion in the spirit of good foruming.

This isnt about who's right and wrong in the thread lock or past stories but about seeing how we can make this home of ours a better place. I hope the mods can see this in a different light

 

[TitanRev]

Diablo, I feel your point. but I think 5115 did make his decision after some consideration. If not, that thread won't have last for a few pages until bashing and personal attacks being thrown around like cursing the parents..etc..We as mods are happy to receive suggestion from members how to improve the forum. We don't reject that. For moderation Tom has already given us a guideline on it and each and every mods will follow it.

infernal about Kendrick case, he has clearly go overboard. A lot of warnings and advice was given to him but he ignored all of them and started to threaten members and moderators. Tom had him ban but he register a new nick and starting to bash with harsh and non constructive posting, insulting the whole of ZTH...etc... If you remember Pocket Rocket reported to the police because he PM a threat to PR in ZTH. Most of his posting was clearly hostile and looking for trouble. 5115 warn him but his reply to 5115 was either 'F*ck you', go die, bastard mods, F*cking lousy ZTH, members in ZTH are lousy and useless....etc..If my house guest acted like this sure I will kick his ass out and tell other about the potential troubles that he will cause.

Varoius methods was tried to change him but he didn't accept at all and still the same trouble maker so there was no more choice but to use a very very harsh way to treat him. If he would have apologise then 5115 or mods would not have done such thing.

 

[- D i a b l o -]

titanrev-san, Yes i am sure 5115 had done his maths before doing so which brings me to conclude that he should reconsider his evaluation on the matter of closing next time more carefully. I know its a fine line and its hard for mods to always get it right but I too share a sentiment that something good might come out from the thread that the TS here were talking about.

No i dont want to see a bash party but more to the lines of maybe someone can educate the unlucky driver with a really good advise where even I can take it to my heart because I am a bad driver myself. and there is no going to this if the thread is closed.

I've done a fair share of foruming overseas e.g Lexus Club where people still have really heated exchange but it end up well because the conclusion was clear cut by the one who is talking facts.

Again i stress,im addressing this issue because Infernal brought it out that moderation should be improvised and not of the thread I assume i might get associated in defending.

 

[mizunori77]

Mizunori,

In no way i was suggesting to allow things to get out of hand. I was merely suggesting that flames be allowed and threads locked once personal threats (things getting out of hand) arise. IIRC, i have stated this in my reply earlier.

i must have misunderstood you.

Not everybody is the same - not everybody can express themselves clearly, sometimes using a rude/exaggerated words (not being politically correct). That doesn't mean a point cant be made. Think Jeremy Clarkson/Top Gear.

i agree that not all will respond in the same way. however, it doesn't mean that they can taruh the family or belittle the person until saying that the person is a wasted sperm? isn't that considered personal attack already?

i didn't have a chance to comment in the forum. i actually have the opinion that the 17 y.o. driver is at fault also for reckless driving. to me, it doesn't matter if he is driving a supra or he is riding a bicycle. if he took a risk on a public road, then it just means that he is selfish for not considering other road users. he should learn from that mistake and not do it again. i believe many others have responded along the same lines but with different expressions, some of which constitutes 'taruh-ing'.

i have a friend who teaches advanced driving and he once asked me 'what is speeding'? i said if i don't exceed the speed limit, then i am not speeding. he laughed and said that i was a dangerous driver. why? because speeding isn't dictated by what is written on the sign board. IT IS DRIVING BEYOND YOUR OWN SKILLS, YOUR CAR CAPABILITIES AND WHAT YOU CAN HANDLE IN ANY SITUATION. that, is the truth. many of the seniors here are also replying based on this fact. at the end of the day, in a public road, WHO are we to judge that we can take such risks ON BEHALF of other road users? isn't that itself a reckless thought and decision? if this has been repeated multiple times by different members, what else is there to 'further' discuss when personal attacks are starting to fly?

since you are trying to be objective by saying that the discussion has some valid points, shouldn't you be looking at the contents of the 'taruh-ing' instead of how the mods are doing their work? this is where i am a bit confused and therefore, i gave my feedback here. to me, the 'valid points' have already been repeated numerous times. it is up to the 17 y.o. driver and other forum members to understand what the seniors have said.

Easy ? Rude comment = Flamebait for "taruh-ing" by constructive comments. For example DarkChild's reply in the supra thread ?. Isn't that value ?.

eh? dark child's post considered flame bait? i don't think so. to me, flame bait means something else totally.

I'm taking this as Tom also understands that not all posters are politically correct and as later mentioned thinking of features to tackle this issue specifically rather then the current action (thread lock).

have to read the whole sentence ma... if you take just one part of it... what's the point?

for example :

girl : i'm feeling 'hot'... but i dowan to have 'fun' with you
guy : let's have some 'fun' together (totally ignoring the last part of the sentence)

how la like this? force the girl to have 'fun' together meh?

 

[TitanRev]

Diablo, really appreciate your point. I understand that both you and infernal is pointing out the moderation method and not the thread itself. It's not that we don't allow any heated exchange, we did allow some degree of it but when things to start to hotter we have to step in. Even in some threads, where they were using other language other than English as stated we also close 1 eye, off topic..we also close 1 eye sometimes.

However, Tom has already clearly stated in his R&R and Me, you and others have to follow. Different places have different rules and we have to respect what Tom has put up. There's a reason for him to stated those rules clearly.

I'm just trying to make the picture clearer hope you guys don't shoot me for that.