DC2 cylinder head VS EK9 cylinder head

Derrick2008

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Except cam shaft, any difference between these 2 type of cylinder head in physical wise? Valve?
Which one will get the better performance if swap to EG6?

TQ!
 
Both are similiar. Get the cheaper one out of the 2.
 
It's said that the EK9 head has lower compression due to its bigger chamber volume, but I've only been able to measure B18C and B16A heads, and compression is similar. (slight inaccuracies probably because the valves just got done, and the valves probably sit deeper in the seat, so there's slightly more chamber volume.

Someone should measure their EK9 heads, and I'll share B16A/B18C chamber volumes as well.

Stock GSR head said to be same, or dissimilar, but since the early gen GSR had PR3 heads, either one could be true.
 
It's said that the EK9 head has lower compression due to its bigger chamber volume, but I've only been able to measure B18C and B16A heads, and compression is similar. (slight inaccuracies probably because the valves just got done, and the valves probably sit deeper in the seat, so there's slightly more chamber volume.

Someone should measure their EK9 heads, and I'll share B16A/B18C chamber volumes as well.

Stock GSR head said to be same, or dissimilar, but since the early gen GSR had PR3 heads, either one could be true.
 
Though its just a general data... http://www.zealautowerks.com/

B16a/b/18c5 share the same combustion chamber volume. Though i doubt its not the stock volume but it shouldn't be much off +/-0.3 the most.
 
Though its just a general data... http://www.zealautowerks.com/

B16a/b/18c5 share the same combustion chamber volume. Though i doubt its not the stock volume but it shouldn't be much off +/-0.3 the most.

Div, actually +/-0.3 is quite a high number when you talk about combustion chamber volume. I only needed like 1+cc to go from 10.5CR to 11CR on my b16A. I did that with S2 high comp flat valves. They're heavier than type R, but I just modded in the most convenient way as my valves were too worn to be reused. With pistons, the cc variation can be bigger, as valve pockets can be made deeper to compensate for high dome. Then there's the issue of wrist pin height (or the C/D = compression distance), which is more accurate(or inaccurate, depending on who you ask) view/number (you have to convert, that's the inaccurate part, because 1 inch doesn't exactly = 24.5 (or was it 25.4?) when measuring compression. If our cars were measured in cubic inches, it'd be easy, but they're not :P

So if the wrist pin height is different, then have to measure the piston to deck height (which can be a positive number, means the piston stick out slightly from the bore. I don't really like this method for rod stretch reasons, but it's one way to get higher compression)

Using mugen/spoon metal gasket also nets around that 1cc number, as it can be considered part of the combustion chamber calculation.

It can be considered a quick and easy mod to get power. Install on stock engine, observe if the engine runs lean or not, and then up the fuel pressure if it's too lean.

simple and no so cheap at RM500 a piece (dunno the current price, I'm guessing)

About measuring.
To measure accurately, have to measure a couple of times and get the averages. if too much variation between readings, then the reading is invalid, and measured again. I measured 3 times and got 3 same numbers each time, so it was a clear cut thing.

using liquids means there will be water tension, that's what the perspex is for, to break the water tension when it hits the brim of the combustion chamber. It's not for show, lol.

(okay...so I used to think it was for show.. :banghead:.)

Then you need a beaker, and plasticine to get the volume of the valve pockets. that one is a bit of calculator work, as you will need to mold the plasticine to the shape of the piston to that is't perfectly round and square. (round like the piston, square means the top is FLAT, that sounded so weird/oxymoronic lol.)
 
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who am i to say its +/- 0.1 because it depends on how accurate are your measuring devices. Even measuring cylinders are like +/-0.2cc tolerance, unless you're measuring using a calibrated weighing balance with accuracy of up to +/- 0.0001 which i doubt you'll have and that has to take into account a few other factors affecting accuracy. It actually depends on how accurate you want it to be which to me is not that important. Off the shelf, this two head flows slightly better than b16a head, thats about it.

But yes, i get your point though. Yes I do know it has a high impact on compression. Not only that, how about the deck height and milling involve, headgasket thickeness which may vary depending on torque applied. Thats why the zeal's and c-speedracing calculators are developed as a guide only and i would use that coz its pretty decent.
 
who am i to say its +/- 0.1 because it depends on how accurate are your measuring devices. Even measuring cylinders are like +/-0.2cc tolerance, unless you're measuring using a calibrated weighing balance with accuracy of up to +/- 0.0001 which i doubt you'll have and that has to take into account a few other factors affecting accuracy. It actually depends on how accurate you want it to be which to me is not that important. Off the shelf, this two head flows slightly better than b16a head, thats about it.

But yes, i get your point though. Yes I do know it has a high impact on compression. Not only that, how about the deck height and milling involve, headgasket thickeness which may vary depending on torque applied. Thats why the zeal's and c-speedracing calculators are developed as a guide only and i would use that coz its pretty decent.

That's why I mentioned averages, and if the reading is off, the measurement is retaken again, because I do realise the potential errors inherent in the method.

Actually I used a burette, and that is probably very close to +/- 0.1cc tolerance, since the minor scale is already around 0.1cc.

Actually compression calculation has one inherent flaw in that the gasket holes aren't exactly round, and at thicknesses of 1mm and below after torquing, that is one error factor in the calculation, hence other measurements must be as accurate as possible to reduce errors in the calculation. It's not going to be dead on accurate but it will be close.

In the end, the reason why I stress on this is because the heads that are in the market are USED, and some are likely to have been milled before, and when STACKED together with other variables like boost/higher comp pistons, single layer metal gasket, etc. it can be a whole different thing than what was planned out, so relying on calculators is not really a good thing. Heck, I use them too, but I try to check them first, hence the reason I tested mine.

Of course, I do know that some modders don't plan their build in detail, and obviously this doesn't apply to them, and guesstimating the SCR is good enough. The engine will work, and everything will be okay. Since I tune my own ride, I prefer to know details so I can see how it affects my tune in general, and if that change can result in more power. (with a 1.6NA, the gains are USUALLY laughably marginal, compared to a 2.1 litre and up)

And there's also the thing I've heard about EK9 heads having bigger combustion chamber volume, so for boosted setups, it's possible that having an EK9 head would be better (and cheaper, if starting from scratch) than opting for a cometic gasket or other 'compression reducing' alternatives.

And if that factor isn't bothered with, why bother even finding out the final static compression? because piston ring sealing will dictate how well that compression is used, and also the cam durations, of course.

It's all about knowing enough about the engine to make it easy to tune, and realizing it's limits, and also, in a way, the fun of building engines, nothing more..

Some people obviously feel very fun buying crate engines from JUN, Spoon, etc. and those practically drop in to the engine bay and run.. but for those that prefer to make their own, knowing more about the engines they're building, or going to build is part of the fun.
 
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Oh, btw I checked the measuring tolerances thingy.. primarily because 0.2 sounds abit too big for a burette.

Thanks to Dean's Analytical Chemistry Handbook By Pradyot Patnaik, John Aurie Dean,
a table provided in the attachment about measuring tolerances of a burette.

The tolerances of a Class A burette is about 0.05, or 0.1 for standard grade. depending on size. Mine is only about 50cc dunno what grade (Rm150? made by some british glass company that I don't remember the name ATM)

Since you do know somewhat about measuring equipment, how do we identify grade A stuff? (I'm honestly curious, because my knowledge of these stuff is rather rudimentary, I'll admit that)

(I bought that knowing it would fit, because c-speed says it's only 42.7 B]:biggrin:) only to realize later that I can't measure H22A's without refilling because it's more than 50cc. :banghead:
 

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Grade A burettes normally has an A marking on them :banghead:. I normally deal with measuring equipments that comes with calibration certificates. The bigger the volume transfer capability, the bigger the errors. The +/-0.1 is for a 50mL can be slightly off by 0.2-0.3mL even some are off by 1.0mL believe it or not... oh yeah we order in bulk last time for the A grade glasswares and measuring glass equipment in which most of the time we throw away to the bin if it doesn't meet our specification. I've verified some with a calibrated balance last time.

The table will show you the accepted tolerance but it needs to be verified prior to usage.

Anyway, yes I do agree with your way. I do get into details when building my engine but limited to clearances on all rotating parts and rings. Compression wise, I totally am dependant on the compression calculators available, well, i follow the crowd on the calculator thingy and works fine 70% of the time.
 
If i built a 17:1 CR running with hi octane Fuel maybe i will go for so detail
but form my 2 cents using malaysia pump gas above 13:1 CR above you will have uncountable knock and engine heat up issue
 

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