Cefiro Club

[dream.tent]

Hi guys,

Glad to have found you all. I've recently acquired a 3.0L 2002 A33 with a bugging problem. When I start in the mornings, the RPM goes to between 1200 to 1500. It goes up to about 1000 to 1100 even after a few hours of start stop. On top of that, I got caught in a jam once and when I shifted to neutral, the damn RPM went up to 1500 on neutral. Any ideas on what's happening guys?

I've been to TCEAS who serviced the throttle bod and checked all the sensors related to this problem. Service advisor told me that mech said no prob and he tested it as well without prob. Damn it!

Enhancements so far since I collected the car.
1. Replaced shocks with Koni
2. Added a front strut
3. Maintained stock wheels but changed rubbers to Eagle F1 (wanted to up to 18" but decided to enjoy the car as it is first before doing the major stuff.....and yeah....short of cash too...hahaha)

Appareciate feedback to solve the RPM prob.

Cheers guys!

Welcome Spyderco!! Another A33 member.

The RPM thing...
1, Throttle Body - Vacuum/pressure sensor faulty?
2, Air Cond compressor - start and stop will load the engine
3, O2 Sensor - Maybe
4, AFM or air filter problem

About the things that i can think of...
"Every morning, it'll take me 2~3mins to warm up my car too...else will be choking too - Mostly probably the forge piston story"

Brothers, anything else to check?

 

[defcon1]

Well....after my project "B" loh..what to do.

Project "B"?

 

[defcon1]

Welcome Spyderco!! Another A33 member.

The RPM thing...
1, Throttle Body - Vacuum/pressure sensor faulty?
2, Air Cond compressor - start and stop will load the engine
3, O2 Sensor - Maybe
4, AFM or air filter problem

About the things that i can think of...
"Every morning, it'll take me 2~3mins to warm up my car too...else will be choking too - Mostly probably the forge piston story"

Brothers, anything else to check?

Hello Spyder...welcome... :)

Let's see if we can help you here...

a) Having a higher idle for the first 2 - 3 minutes in the morning is normal. When the engine is cold, one of your water temp sensors (the one that feeds temp signals to your ECU) sends a temp reading to the ECU. The ECU determines that the vehicle has not yet warmed up, and enriches the air-fuel mix. In older motors there is actually an additional injector on the throtte body caled the "cold start injector". I don't really know if we have one on the VQ since I have not yet had the opportunity to strip it myself, but I believe that our ECU enriches by directly adjusting the primary injectors. Ether way, the engine will run at higher rpm until it warms up to it's minimum operating temperature. This should be at around 65 degrees C water temp (this is an estimate. Don't quote me) after which, the ECU will cut down fuel and your rpm will go down.

b) The most common problem that causes a bouncing idle such as you describe is a dirty IAC valve. The IAC valve is a valve that regulates idle by metering air into the manifold. If it is stuck, commonly, idle goes up...and this problem can be intermittent. The IAC valve is located between the throttle body and the intake manifold...directly behind the throttle body. Get this cleaned, as it frequently gums up from oil escaping into the air flow via the PCV valves (the 2 hoses from the valve covers).

After cleaning the IAC valve, reset your ecu by disconnecting the negative terminal of the battery, turn your key in the ignition to discharge the system, and then re-connect the battery. Be careful here as your alarm will trigger and you will need to reset it.

For this situation, take care of the IAC valve first.

The A/C usually does not cause problems, since the ECU is a learning ECU and usually takes care of the A/C idle up. A MAF problem usually results in a complete and consistent loss of power brought about by a wrong air-fuel mixture. O2 sensors also have a consistent effect of power loss as well... :)

Let us know after the IAC valve has been cleaned. Then we'll see what else may be wrong. Trouble shooting is a step by step activity and difficult to do without being directly at your car...

And I have never trusted Tan Chong mechanics, or UMW, or Federal Auto...

 

[ongteckweng]

Well....after my project "B" loh..what to do.

....i understand la...just wanna pull ur leg..hehe
but i have a set of 18" with brand new Firestone tyres for sale...rm4k nia...hehe
want? hehehe

 

[ongteckweng]

Project "B"?

defcon...project baby coming soon la...hehe

 

[defcon1]

defcon...project baby coming soon la...hehe

A-HA!!! This project, I've done before. Take very long time to conclude leh...and very expensive...

 

[ongteckweng]

A-HA!!! This project, I've done before. Take very long time to conclude leh...and very expensive...

at least 24 yrs lor!! until uni grad...hehehe

 

[dream.tent]

Project "B"?

Oh! it's Project Baby.:shocked:
Coming in 4 weeks time...

 

[sendai]

http://zerotohundred.com/newforums/showthread.php?p=1383296#post1383296

Hi,
I am selling emblems/stickers for Honda,BMW,Mistubishi,Nissan etc..I can find for you emblems/stickers that are not in Malaysia...currently I am in Japan..
Do contact me which emblems/stickers do you want..thank you

 

[Spyderco]

Thks for all the feedback guys

Yo Dream,

Re Throttle Body - They "supposedly" serviced it so I assumed they went the whole hog unless they BS me.

Re Air cond compressor - morning starts are without the aircond switched on

Re O2 sensor - I told them to check everything related so I guess kena BS

Re AFM or air filter - ditto above. Filter is new. Sent the car to tceas for first service

Yo defcon,

Re (a) - I didn't have this problem when I first got the car a month ago. So I'm guessing then that there was a problem there and the service at tceas sort of made it surface. As long as the engine is still warm, the prob does not surface. Only when I start after like two/three hours after stop. The darn traffic jam experience was scary though.

Re (b) - OK! Clean IAC valve. Should I assume that tceas had the sense to clean this when I asked them to "Pls check everything including sensors, valves, air flow, etc etc..." :-)

Anybody knows an independent mech who is well-versed with our A33s?

Funny that you should mention it. I was just wondering earlier today that I feel a funny lack of power recently. I certainly hope I was hallucinating.


and oh yeah! I've had my fair share of UMW. Had a Corolla some time back and bloody useless customer service up to the point where a certain Mr Martin Wee (he was the CS Director then) refused to entertain my calls, faxes, sms'es and even face-to-face meetings. Up to the point where I wanted to confront him during his Sunday church outing. Swore to myself I'll never drive another bloody Toyota anymore. But then again, can't really blame the brand.

 

[defcon1]

Thks for all the feedback guys

Yo defcon,

Re (a) - I didn't have this problem when I first got the car a month ago. So I'm guessing then that there was a problem there and the service at tceas sort of made it surface. As long as the engine is still warm, the prob does not surface. Only when I start after like two/three hours after stop. The darn traffic jam experience was scary though.

If you DIDN'T have this problem, then there was definitely a problem with the throttle and/or IAC valve cos the high rpm on cold start-up is a feature of the car put in by the Japs cos where they come from, morning starts are freezing.

2 things happen when a Japanese motor is started up cold to facilitate quick warm-up...

i) The RPM is raised by enrichment of the air-fuel mixture.

ii) The water pump solenoid shuts the a water pump valve, shunting the water into only the channels around the engine block.

After operating temperature is reached. AF mixture enrichment ceases, and the water pump solenoid allows the water pump valve to open allowing the warm water to circulate normally.

Re (b) - OK! Clean IAC valve. Should I assume that tceas had the sense to clean this when I asked them to "Pls check everything including sensors, valves, air flow, etc etc..." :-)

I doubt it. The IAC valve requires some actual work. The popular way of "cleaning" throttle bodies in these "distributor workshops" is to spray terminal cleaner into the throttle body and IAC valve then blow with compressed air without dismantling. Then they tell you they cleaned it...and clean out your wallet after... I think that's in chapter 9 of their "Standard Operating Procedure"...

Anybody knows an independent mech who is well-versed with our A33s?

Depends on where you are located. I am sure any one of the Cefiro Club member will be happy to lend you a hand.

Funny that you should mention it. I was just wondering earlier today that I feel a funny lack of power recently. I certainly hope I was hallucinating.

There can be many reasons for an apparent lack of power. I wouldn't assume something is wrong first before checking on the more common ailments.

and oh yeah! I've had my fair share of UMW. Had a Corolla some time back and bloody useless customer service up to the point where a certain Mr Martin Wee (he was the CS Director then) refused to entertain my calls, faxes, sms'es and even face-to-face meetings. Up to the point where I wanted to confront him during his Sunday church outing. Swore to myself I'll never drive another bloody Toyota anymore. But then again, can't really blame the brand.

It's not the brand. Toyotas are known as true work-horses. I drove a Toyota for many years...and even through the worst of engine failures, with a little roadside first aid, I was always able to get home. In those days...home could be 300 km away...as I was driving between KL and Singapore.

It's the "nuts" that these distributors are staffed with. Fresh diploma holders from colleges of lesser renown...given a 1 month crash course in repairing a Toyota motor. A CS Manager probably more suited to working as a manager in a karaoke than a serious automotive workshop.:cry_smile:

NONE of my mechanics ever had a diploma...and one of them handles Feraris and Rolls Royces...

 

[defcon1]

Oh! it's Project Baby.:shocked:
Coming in 4 weeks time...

Waaaaah!!! Dunno about your project...but mine had TURBO sounding motor, very heavy consumption and failed exhaust emmission test repeatedly...

Still...very strong chasis, so good foundation to plan mods on...

 

[defcon1]

WAAAAAAH!!! SURE NO PROBLEM WITH EXHAUST RESTRICTION ONE!!!...

 

[0909]

"And I have never trusted Tan Chong mechanics, or UMW, or Federal Auto..."

:cheers:

well said, bro! i recently complained a high FC that I suspect the Knnock or O2 sensor is faulty. aside from not using a diagnostic scanner, they plainly answered "just change KS, service the O2, and see-lah...if still high FC, change O2 as well-lor.."

jeez!!! such an answer from (so-called) specialised & well-trained "advisors"!!! In fact, thoughout the conversation, they were wary (and rather unwilling) to reveal, let alone share, information pertaining to my vehicle. At one point, they even acknowledge that they were afraid I will send my car elsewhere (for repair/replacement) once they reveal the identified fault! Well, what happened to coonsumer rights now? In a way, they are purely "threatening" me to have it fixed as there & then. Blah! They should ponder it over that should they not charge so exhorbitantly, ppl would certainly stay with them. Coupled with the attitude of such, mechs that gladly & sincerely share, or the least inform the isolated faults, will win the hearts of customers they should respect!

btw, i brought my car to a mech lawcc (thanks bro!) kindly recomm., equipped with a scanner. he resetted the sensors (or maybe ECU) and we are monitoring whether it will return to faulty level again after 3 days. i was explained in detail and i'm satisfied on the effort he took. the $$ = $45....the experience = $priceless!

just my 2cents

 

[defcon1]

btw, i brought my car to a mech lawcc (thanks bro!) kindly recomm., equipped with a scanner. he resetted the sensors (or maybe ECU) and we are monitoring whether it will return to faulty level again after 3 days. i was explained in detail and i'm satisfied on the effort he took. the $$ = $45....the experience = $priceless!

just my 2cents

Actually, there is a simple way to reset the ECU and clear fault codes on the Maxima.org site. When I got time I'll post it...

 

[0909]

maxima.org is a great site....informative. yet, the models seem different to ours, right? i hope i am reading the correct threads (4th generation- yr 1995-1999) as i'm driving a A32 yr '00. tried digging up for ECU reset but no avai. hope to get your reply soon, bro!

 

[defcon1]

Hey all...I understand that one of our members has transplanted a 2.5l engine kosong into his 3l, but using everything else from the 3l. I am thinking of doing the same.

I understand you are having some problems. Can you please post them so that I can research them?

Theoretically, the only diff. between the 2.5l and 3l is the capacity, and some mapping differences in the ECU. I want to know if this theory is correct, and if not, what to do about it.

 

[Oinks]

i have an a32 year 1999...2.0L eximo...

i'm getting pissed with the car lately due to its ultra fuel consumption at full tank on ave i get 320-350km...the car is very well taken off as its my mum's ride...it has only clocked 69k Km so far...very well mantained...any ideas why for the super fuel consumption...or issit norml?

coz my other car a toyota fortuner 2.7L is giving me better mileage than my 2.0 a32...

 

[defcon1]

Ok..your problem sounds more like a sensor related problem than anything mechanical. Possible reasons for heightened fuel consumption...

a) O2 sensors....one of the primary causes of bad FC. Bad or no signal to the ECU. A hand held diagnostics tool sometimes misses this, cos it only detects a bad O2 sensor when the sensor is dead...which does not happen often. They are expensive, but you can probably find some in the local scrap yard. Dont worry about whether they are the same as your or not as long as they fit, and are the same type (for the forward and rear downpipe). All O2 sensors function the same way. Only difference is in the number of wires - 2-wire is a standard sensor, 3-wire incorporates a heater to heat up fast.

b) Failing MAF. If you or someone has somehow taken off and meddled with the MAF, there is a likelihood that you have managed to damage the MAF. However, this is an extremely rare thing to happen.

c) Also try checking if your air filter is clogged. A lot of people think that just blowing out the stock air filter is enough to clean it. THIS IS NOT TRUE. Paper based air filters are supposed to be disposable and have a finite time of usefulness...usually only 3 - 6 months under normal driving conditions, after which they are clogged and no amount of blowing will un-clog them.

d) Water temp sensors also play a part in supplying the ECU with information. Your car is equipped with at least 2 water temp sensors...one to supply a signal to your in-dash thermometer, and one to supply the ECU with a signal.

My suggestion:

a) Go see a mech who has a hand-held diagnostics tool and the A32 Maxima program. Record the error codes, if any. Address the problems identified by the diagnostics tool. Reset ECU and monitor over 2 weeks. While you are at it...have the mech clean the throttle body and IAC valve. HAVE HIM DISMANTLE THE THROTTLE BODY AND IAC VALVE AND CLEAN THEM PHYSICALLY IN A KEROSENE BATH WITH A BRUSH. A lot of these guys will simple spray terminal cleaner into the throttle, and polish the visible parts with a cloth. This will not work.

b) If this does not work, change O2 sensors. Get some good ones from a scrap yard. Again, reset ECU and monitor over 2 weeks.

c) Identify the water temp sensor that supplies the ECU with signal. Change this one. It is unlikely that you will find a functioning one in a scrap yard. This has to be new.

d) There is a method of testing the MAF using a multi-meter on the maxima.org forums. There is also information on how to test other sensors. Find it and do the diagnostics...cos the MAF is a very expensive part.

 

[defcon1]

Oh ya...I almost forgot...

Go check your exhaust for holes and/or deteriorated centre muffler and main muffler.

You will also find a cat converter, and probably 2 pre-cats under the car...which by now, I sincerely doubt are working any more. They are simply restrictions to smooth exhaust flow. Remove these and the car will breathe better. This contributes to a positive FC reading.