1000hp evo!

[azizi.aziz]

Just to share....adapted from mod mag dec08...

The engine built by AMS Motorsports...Yes, what you see here is a sequential turbo set up...but at last they end up with single turbo set up due to time factor...This is what Ultimate Machine means... Got 2 wastegates actually...eventhough 1 turbo GT42...

 

[ley]

Huhuhuuu!!! Wonder how de bumper will look like??? Dammmnn...awesome monster bro!!!

 

[DewA_LavaU]

yeahh AMS are good in modifying 1000hp with no NOS! only meth setup huhuhuhuhu respek!

 

[azizi.aziz]

I just wonder...How does the system work??? That's why the pic catched my attention...hehehehe

 

[DewA_LavaU]

i'm in the midst studying meth setup. what i know draeger are good in this (using Obit) but to pull higher horsepower required a lot of R&D

Bump: and since RON95 will be implement by June 2009 I think it is good for evo owner to use meth setup hehehehe nak pakai v-power mahal sgt :P

Bump: and since RON95 will be implement by June 2009 I think it is good for evo owner to use meth setup hehehehe nak pakai v-power mahal sgt :P

Bump: actually meth is water/alcohol system injected to your combustion chamber aim to reduce knocking due to lower RON usage (correct me if i'm wrong) actually its too technical to explain perhaps khoyos can help me on this?:wavey:

Bump: actually meth is water/alcohol system injected to your combustion chamber aim to reduce knocking due to lower RON usage (correct me if i'm wrong) actually its too technical to explain perhaps khoyos can help me on this?:wavey:

Bump: click at the link about meth thinggy :)

http://forums.evolutionm.net/water-alcohol-injection-nos-173/

Bump: worth reading taken from evolutionm.net

Here's a post made by Richard on the SRT-4 forums awhile ago

"Water and methanol injection does the same job in different ways, they both perform in-cylinder cooling and knock suppression well. Since water has a higher latent heat value than methanol, you need to inject twice the amount of methanol by mass to extract the same amount of heat during combustion. This is why all pure alcohol injection systems require a bigger jet, you need to inject 2.5 times by volume more than water. This makes little difference in practice except you need to find a bigger container.

Effect on knock suppression is totally different:
Water suppresses knock by quenching peak flame front temperatures hence regulating the frame propagation speed ? (too fast burn promotes knock). In-perfect charge distribution produces lean and rich pockets. Lean pockets burn at a higher temperature (oxygen-rich = faster) compared to fuel-rich pockets (excess CO slows down burn speed).

Alcohol suppresses detonation by increasing the knock threshold value of a given fuel grade. Since large amount of alcohol is required to control in-cylinder temperatures, air/fuel ratio will be affected significantly. Some fuel has to be removed to avoid over-rich mixture.

Power producing potentials:
In theory, more power will be produced if more charge is jammed into the combustion chamber, resulting in higher cylinder pressure and temperature. In practice, the associated components such as pistons, turbo turbine, etc has a finite operating temperature constraint. This is normally reflected by the EGT. The general accepted EGT figure is about 900C.

Power is basically a force exerted onto the piston per unit of time. Force (pressure) is generated with heated air in a confined space. If cylinder pressure can continue to increase without temperature rise, we have the ultimate power plant. Water injection and alcohol injection will be a good tool to perform this work, lets examine this in more details how each concept can help achieving this.

POWER TUNING:
(Assuming we have a powerful ignition system, a strong engine and unlimited supply of air and fuel).

For water: the task is relatively simple. First generate as much heat as possible by adding more boost and fuel. Water is then injected to absorb the excess heat until EGT is within a permitted safe level. Overall BMEP (Brake Mean Effective Pressure) is now increased due to the vaporized water. The amount of BMEP increase will depend on the mechanical strength of the engine structure. Water?s ability to push the power capability is almost unlimited.

For methanol: First consider using methanol as a fuel instead of Gasoline. Methanol?s ability to increase power is confined to the knock threshold, and available heat to increase the BMEP of an engine. Methanol has only about half of the energy content of gasoline, so twice as much methanol has to be injected to produce the same power. As twice the amount of liquid has to be injected, the cooling effect is huge, resulting in over-cooled combustion chamber, limiting the BMEP. A 100% methanol engine has to use multi-spark ignition system to ensure the mixture is constantly being re-ignited due to the cold combustion chamber. Within those constraints, there is still huge potential of power increase.

A good compromise to inject a percentage of injected into a gasoline engine. This will ensure good inlet and in-cylinder cooling effect, but how much? From reading many results form various forums, it appeared to be between 10-30% to fuel. Unfortunately, the results were not consistent, some got excellent power increase, some experienced engine knock, some misfires and some with very low EGT. Why?

4-5 years ago, AI system was very basic, at a certain manifold pressure, the pump starts and deliver a fixed amount of alcohol into the engine. In those days, results have always been very consistent and yield excellent power increase. But for the past few years, the results have been a mix bag. I could only put this down on the availability of the 2-dimensional AI controller. They are termed as an electronic progressive AI controller. Method of delivery is very similar to the mechanical rising-rate fuel pressure regulator. The flow is governed by the pump speed, the controller reads the manifold pressure via a MAP sensor, translates to a PWM drive signal to the delivery pump.

Lucky for some, the availability of stand-alone, piggyback type of engine controllers give user a high degree of control, changing fuel and ignition timing is a merely rapping a few keys on the laptop. In my view, I think this is the reason for the inconsistent result ? user?s interpretation of quite a complex ratio of methanol and fuel. Taking fuel out of the factory ECU to accommodate a methanol delivery system that has no reference to RPM, is a tall order. There are a few guys on this forum have managed it, I take my hat off to them.

My personal view on this relatively new concept requires a great deal of patience, dyno result means very little compared to logged data. Dyno-graphs always cause argument. I would really hope to see more logged graphs with AFR, Methanol flow rate, and EGT. If possibly the log should include a second to fourth gear run-up so we can spot the afr change due to Methanol. For those who has just embarked on the WAI, tune with 100% water - W50:M50 - 100% methanol and lastly 100% for ultimate power.

Need to clarify, get to experiment with water first and then add alcohol to until you are running 100% methanol. Lastly, you need to go a bit mad with crazy power, 100% water will be best."

 

[leslie]

that was a very 'panjang' elaboration...

damm.. they had to cut the front chasis to fit in the turbo...

 

[zeus83]

nice ...the turbo looks bigger than the engine block, it feels like a drag engine though...

 

[DewA_LavaU]

meth setup is a good consideration/investment for those who aiming high horsepower but yet to be driven as daily carbut lacking of real tuner in our scene is the only setback.

 

[khoyos]

actually its too technical to explain perhaps khoyos can help me on this?:wavey:

i clicked on this thread out of curiosity, but what a surprise to see my nickname appeared! hehehe

 

[DewA_LavaU]

hehehe khoyos i remember read ur thread about meth thinggy thats why i call ur name :P pls sifu teach us here hehehe

 

[cliffordcheong]

damn i need that siput lah for my car....

Bump: damn i need that siput lah for my car....

 

[Doggiestyler]

Hmm ...... panjang explanation .... but for your info that engine was run on Engine Dyno to achieve 1000 hp on 100 Octane la ...... i repeat Engine Dyno! AMS actually built that monster machine to enter the Castrol Syntec Top Shop Engine challenge for the Nov 3rd 2008, SEMA (Specialty Equipment Market Association) Auto Show in Las Vegas.

7 top auto shops in the US were put up to the challenge & all tested on the same Engine Dyno. Bro Azizi, why Modified Mag? Because of their good & long association with AMS that's why Mod Mag selected them for the challenge.

They achieved that by running the first stage turbo (a GT28) off of the outlet to the inlet of the 42r which would have reduced/eliminated the top end losses from running the smaller turbo first in the series by the use of Actuating valves. In really layman terms (myself included), AMS was using a smaller turbo to start off low and help power a larger turbo for the higher gains so the power curve would be constant and never have any lag. Darn .... a 'sequential twin' turbo set-up on a 4G63 .... talk about innovation ... respek!!


Basically, AMS won .... but the engine was then given away as the main prize in a lucky draw based on the online voting by fans .... Shitz!! why we don't have this kind of competitions here ....
Here's the results ... Engine builder/Team (Magazine)

1. AMS/Modified Mag (1035HP 2.0L Mitsubishi 4G63 Turbo ---- 421 points)

2. G-Dimensions/Import Tuner Mag (827HP 2.1L Nissan SR20 DET ---- 356 points)

3. 034 Motorsports/Eurotuner Mag (848HP 2.3L Audi 7A 20-valve ---- 306 points)

4. SP Engineering/Turbo Mag (966HP 2.8L Nissan RB26 DETT ---- 302 points)

5. Bisimoto/Super Street Mag (360HP Honda 2.4L Honda F22A N/A ---- 250 points)

6. Cosworth/Sport Compact Car Mag (438HP 3.8L Nissan VQ35DE N/A ---- 210 points)

7. ACE Machine/Lowrider Mag (1092HP 6.0L Chevy V-8 Twin Turbo ---- 163 points)


The principle behind the event is simple...make the BEST all around engine. You are scored on peak horsepower, horsepower under the curve, engineering and even your overall presentation. To keep things fair every engine must succumb to a series of multipliers/handicap based on the size and power add ons. For instance an all motor 4-cyl would have very little to nothing in the way of multipliers but a twin turbo big block V8 would be severely handicapped with multipliers. This keeps a level playing field.

Just building a motor for the competition was not enough. This had to be put on an engine dyno outside of a car. To accomplish this all competitors had to make a supplementary cart to contain all the vital components for the engine like, Water cooler, Dry sump oil reservoir, battery and the ECU complete with gauges. Because they are judged on engineering and overall presentation.


Some of the items that went into the AMS Engine build are:

AMS built 2.0L 1000hp capable block using Ross Racing pistons, Manley Turbo Tough rods and a super lightweight K1 2.0 Crank. Built and assembled by AMS'es Tim Salefski!
AMS CNC Cylinder head using Supertech Valvetrain Components
AMS Dry Sump Oil System
AMS Drag plenum VSR manifold
AMS Custom fabricated turbo system using a GT42R turbocharger courtesy of Precision Turbo
AMS Custom Air to water intercooler system
AEM EMS engine management and Gauge setup
Spark-Tech Custom COP system
and a whole bunch more

All info from AMS & US Forums.... Have pics but lazy to upload ...

So Bro Leslie .... the engine was not run on an Evo for a Drag race (although it was built for a Dragger).... but on a Dyno .... the entire set-up protrudes out something like close to 1/2 of the chassis length ....:stupid:
Front bumper was never fitted .... cudn't be anyway ..

Bro Azizi, they did run with the Sequential twin turbo for the competition but lacked time for further tuning time to improve on that 1035HP .... no way the GT42 can make 1000+HP on it's own on a 4g63 laa ... the Custom Air-to-Water intercooler system is on the right of that pic u posted. The Drag Plenum is custom made to order.

 

[leslie]

.. so anybody want to give away their high horse power engine's??? i'll organize the competition!!

1st price get pablo's "great white" engine set up!!!

 

[Doggiestyler]

nice ...the turbo looks bigger than the engine block, it feels like a drag engine though...

Yes, it was designed to be a Drag Engine ..... but it did not see the track .... Wonder if it's new owner will plonk it into his Drag Evo ..... that'll be crazy man ....
Or he'll bring it back to AMS to further develop that set-up .... either way .... Fuyoooh!!!

 

[DewA_LavaU]

very in-depth explaination bro doggie thanks for sharing :)

 

[tony5050]

guys,

where is this AMS motorsport? is the setup for space frame drag use or ?

 

[Doggiestyler]

guys,

where is this AMS motorsport? is the setup for space frame drag use or ?

AMS in the USA ... not (Utara Shah Alam .... )

Bump:

very in-depth explaination bro doggie thanks for sharing :)

I always go in-deep!!! :flute:

 

[DewA_LavaU]

heheheh doggie u remind me of the great white shark laaa hehehehehe

 

[Mistaken_Identity]

AMS in the USA ... not (Utara Shah Alam .... )

Bump:

I always go in-deep!!! :flute:

That's the typical Doggie..!!! Always go in-deep..!!!

 

[ley]

Rite bro! De great white shark alwaiz like to go in-deep2 1...