20V owner | Best combination

[km_chew]

Hello guys,
Want to know if anyone got try this before and what is the result. Put it this way, assumption both car is running Map, one full silvertop and one full blacktop. Silvertop had a mod to Map so it has the same intake but then, the throttle restricted by it's SVT's smaller ITBs.

The combo will be like this, (full complete move over with the ITBs also)
- Silvertop base, with black top head
- Blacktop base, with silver top head
--- which one produce higher horse / torque ?

or rather the stock full set BT / SVT is a better combination since it is factory tune from Toyota?

What is your opinion / comment? Want to know the answer from those who experience it already. I heard a lot of the combo on vice versa.

Any sifus??

Sekian Terima Kasih

 

[pcmoddingmy]

Nice topic. Just to add a few more things on combo/hybrid 20v stuff. Which one has higher compression?

1. BT block + BT head + SVT piston
2. BT block + SVT head + SVT piston
3. SVT block + BT head + SVT piston
4. Or other configurations...

I heard somewhere that BT (block+head) using SVT piston can improve compression. But some say if use SVT piston on BT block, must use SVT head as SVT piston and SVT head only can produce higher compression. Is it true that SVT piston is more durable than BT piston?

Anyways, didn't toyota rate BT at higher compression than SVT on paper spec?

bro km_chew: I've tested an AE92 corolla with SVT engine and full BT wiring... the result was good but I still feel that ori BT is faster. Prolly would be best to test on same chassis with same weight / setup. Also, usually SVT convert to MAP or BT wiring will usually not change to BT ITB because a lot of work required and might have idling issues. It is also costly to port match the SVT's intake to BT's ITB, because SVT's head have "teardrop" design.

Correct me if i'm wrong...

 

[jack84]

Really nice topic here.
But 1 of my friend using the the Bt block + 16v head, not sure about the compression. But the result was quite satisfied better low-end power. 1 more important thing was its dabao stock Bt.

 

[chinozie]

start counting... :D

b = cylinder bore (diameter)
s = piston stroke length
Vc = volume of the combustion chamber (including head gasket). This is the minimum volume of the space into which the fuel and air is compressed, prior to ignition. Because of the complex shape of this space, it is usually measured directly rather than calculated.

 

[scottwrx]

wat i know from the spec is that svt compression chamber come from the head.. coz quite narrow, and bt come from the piston coz the design of the piston...
so if match svt head with bt block should be able to produce wonders if tunes correctly...
i also read from a mag some time ago that mixing all 4age series can produce more than 175 bhp.... but the exact formula is still a mystery.. any sifu mind to share???

 

[km_chew]

Nice topic. Just to add a few more things on combo/hybrid 20v stuff. Which one has higher compression?

1. BT block + BT head + SVT piston
2. BT block + SVT head + SVT piston
3. SVT block + BT head + SVT piston
4. Or other configurations...

I heard somewhere that BT (block+head) using SVT piston can improve compression. But some say if use SVT piston on BT block, must use SVT head as SVT piston and SVT head only can produce higher compression. Is it true that SVT piston is more durable than BT piston?

Anyways, didn't toyota rate BT at higher compression than SVT on paper spec?

bro km_chew: I've tested an AE92 corolla with SVT engine and full BT wiring... the result was good but I still feel that ori BT is faster. Prolly would be best to test on same chassis with same weight / setup. Also, usually SVT convert to MAP or BT wiring will usually not change to BT ITB because a lot of work required and might have idling issues. It is also costly to port match the SVT's intake to BT's ITB, because SVT's head have "teardrop" design.

Correct me if i'm wrong...

I myself heard lot's of this rumour too. Especially the SVT piston + head will have higher compression. I would like to know it from any forummer who had try it. (if there is, pls input)

Toyota paper specs, BT got a higher compression than SVT.

For a SVT to convert to map, it is a problematic initially. Idling was perfect, but if TPS 50%, you will hear knocking untill it got the right rev. I manage to solve this with a 3.8bar fuel pressure on the Fuel Regulator. It costed me Rm10 for less than 40km on the FC. End of it, i still notice the BT's got a little better rev free from 6.5k - 8k. I'm not sure is it due to the higher 0.5mm lift from the cam, or is it the higher compression that contribute to it.

It is almost impossible to port a SVT intake to match the BT's ITBs. It is way too big, and might not get a right size for each of them. I'm having a dillemma here too. I already got one BT's ITB waiting. Still wondering what to do next.

- port the SVT's intake to fit BT's ITBs (might have inconsistency issue later on)
or
- get a BT's head and plonk in the BT's ITBs (maybe it is a cheaper option than above)

Someone correct me if i'm wrong here. Every input is appreciated much. Go back to the subject, what is the best combination ? Lolx ..

 

[chinozie]

what actually do you wanted from that combination ?
ask yourself first...

do read on these pages...
it will gave first hand what are looking at...

http://www.billzilla.org/engcrank.htm

continue on with...

http://www.billzilla.org/engcombust.htm

all clues are in there...do keep on google with what have your read...

 

[t-la]

u cannot directly assumed bout the comp ratio or the hp directly after u mate the x block with the y head viceversa if u do not know the engine cond itself, unless u do the test. The comp ratio influenced by a lot of thing. e.g the internal of the block cond. maybe worn/old bla bla bla....

y block with y head maybe produce higher comp then x block with x head or whatever if the combined system is very healthy.
In the simpliest term, we can gain high comp with any combination of the system that we desired. For me, the preffered target is achievable if we do it in the right way and same goes to the hp...

and yes, the spec tell us alot of thing, the hp, the ratio and this and that...but in what term and what condition?

all the information above maybe wrong or totally craps...if not, u are free to read further below




free advertisemnt....
'i can make ur comp higher then before....call now'....hehehehe....

 

[scomatic]

u cannot directly assumed bout the comp ratio or the hp directly after u mate the x block with the y head viceversa if u do not know the engine cond itself, unless u do the test. The comp ratio influenced by a lot of thing. e.g the internal of the block cond. maybe worn/old bla bla bla....

y block with y head maybe produce higher comp then x block with x head or whatever if the combined system is very healthy.
In the simpliest term, we can gain high comp with any combination of the system that we desired. For me, the preffered target is achievable if we do it in the right way and same goes to the hp...

and yes, the spec tell us alot of thing, the hp, the ratio and this and that...but in what term and what condition?

all the information above maybe wrong or totally craps...if not, u are free to read further below




free advertisemnt....
'i can make ur comp higher then before....call now'....hehehehe....

yes... you are right... I still suggest go on aftermarket Piston + rod + crank + high cam + spring valve + valve + lightweight pulley + cam adjustable pulley ... result sure satisfaction...

 

[1JZtezza]

What t-la said is right. bore and stroke same then only 2 other variables can make compression higher. Piston head profile and head chamber size.Use spirit balancing to determine size of chamber between the 2 heads(svt/bt)

 

[km_chew]

Ok Ok, i've to agree to aftermarket parts are always better. Before i venture to that money spending upgrade, my i want to reach my goal 1st "to get the highest HP with the stock internals regardless of any of the combination" . Hence, i posted this question to know if anyone got try this combo.

Reason to this, i have both the colours of this running 4AGE, and thinking of swapping it to get the best for one machine only.

T-La : I'm the gold colour Penang owner. Hope you haven't forget me so fast . Aside to this topic, you know any firm date for April (SIC) ?

 

[1JZtezza]

If its HPC track day I believe its monday April 20th ,Yup monday----Damn

 

[t-la]

T-La : I'm the gold colour Penang owner. Hope you haven't forget me so fast . Aside to this topic, you know any firm date for April (SIC) ?

aiya...its you ka...heheh how can i foget one...
romours said, middle of april open track practice for 1k race.....so, prepare...wei, bring me laksa penang ...hahaha


1JZtezza, hpc on moday? sure not?? ughh

back to the topic...we cannot simply go direct to all the after-market parts, unless headache does not matter. higher comp or higher hp engine do requires lotsa hidden things...

 

[d3cipher]

...here i have already seen ST with the following mods :

1) Open ITB's (just like BT) + Change ST ECU to BT ECU (change of wiring harness too)
2) ST using BT cams
3) ST with BT extractors (or headers)
4) and sometimes a small tank of NOS somewhere hidden under the seat... hahahaha!!!

 

[turbo10]

aiya...its you ka...heheh how can i foget one...
romours said, middle of april open track practice for 1k race.....so, prepare...wei, bring me laksa penang ...hahaha


1JZtezza, hpc on moday? sure not?? ughh

back to the topic...we cannot simply go direct to all the after-market parts, unless headache does not matter. higher comp or higher hp engine do requires lotsa hidden things...

yes sir..the hidden cost..depends on how high the c/r higher hp..such as..higher fuel grade, higher cam degree and more overlap equals bad idle..engine knocking...hardcore parts..good ecu and tuning..better cooling..bla bla.there's also some cheap solution for higher engine power but the results maybe not as good as using the right parts and also reliability issue will rise from the horizon..hehe

 

[t-la]

yes sir..the hidden cost..depends on how high the c/r higher hp..such as..higher fuel grade, higher cam degree and more overlap equals bad idle..engine knocking...hardcore parts..good ecu and tuning..better cooling..bla bla.there's also some cheap solution for higher engine power but the results maybe not as good as using the right parts and also reliability issue will rise from the horizon..hehe

.....bingo!!
like this really have to pekena ikan bakaq lah...

 

[km_chew]

.....bingo!!
like this really have to pekena ikan bakaq lah...

Hmm, this April is the last trial before i decide on the incoming upgrades. The machine has progress very far for a stock internals. If you free, i bring you for a ride. My car is alway like a taxi when in SIC.

 

[1JZtezza]

The st v bt heads difference is in the ports and flow characteristics.I havent gone this far on 20v as mine is stock with extractor only.ST runs AFM whereas BT MAP.Because of the vvti dont know what aftermarket cams there are.Maybe max performance would be : run 7age bottom,GZ pstons and turbo it with a good standalone ecu.
But it is a lot of work;yes the joy when it sings/screams 9000+ rpm is there.But are you running/competing a group(eg grp a) or class?
Been there;stay at workshop until midnight etc....very very tiring.
Have you all considered 3T-GT rare but somewhat overlooked-good potential.
Others 2ZZ or 3S-GT.
Me currently using 1 JZ- TT(altezza) ;everything else stock including ecu but got a boost cotroller can get 280hp at the wheels boosting 1 bar; 250hp at 0.7 bar
The point is this way engine lasts much longer and can use as daily (work) car

Hope dont offend anyone-just my 2 cents

 

[ehdrian]

oi km_chew, whose car u plan to TAPAU pulak?..ur car can be considered the fastest 1.6 around for an NA, don't upgrade ade la..later u no kaki then no fun ade la playing drag with you..wakakaka

 

[t-la]

Hmm, this April is the last trial before i decide on the incoming upgrades. The machine has progress very far for a stock internals. If you free, i bring you for a ride. My car is alway like a taxi when in SIC.

last trial..? feel slow already ka?
ok. lets ride...next t-day i call u..