water-air intercooling

[turbo10]

hi guys..i'm a newbie and i got a question to u guys...my fren and i have built a custom water-air fabricated with aluminium plates.we got a problem in finding the suitable pump for the system to circulate the water through the heat exchangers (the water-air i/c and condenser to cool off the water).do any of u guys have any experience in this or any idea.thanks guys

 

[Danny]

what kind of pump do you need, any specific dimensions? My pc co. deals in water coolers for pc which might be compatible, since it also uses radiator etc which is similar to car applications.

 

[speedchaser]

At least a 40gpm pump and depends on your application. Better to have at least a 2 liter reservoir to go with it. The air-con condenser will not really make a good heat exchanger (tried that with my 4agte), go for a custom aluminium one that is optimize to flow water with at least 600 square inch surface area. Depending on what kinda temp you are running, you might need it a tad bigger.

 

[dolly]

Iwaki pumps! friggin solid japanese pump (also got inferior american motor model)

but whats ur operating temp. danny, if you are suggesting to use the pumps you sell for pc i suggest better check the operating environment. definitely no "hobby" type pumps. they have low cut off temperature

 

[turbo10]

i found water pump for marine use that pumps out about 70 l/hr.planning to use a pair of oil cooler combined together and put in a chill tank for water resevoir and for ice use during competition.i think 70l/hr is quite high.the system will be use on a 4agze.tried to use front mount i/c but the pressure loss was too high. if in turbo system the loss can be settled by increasing it back to desired boost easily but in supercharging the loss means we have to go for bigger crank pulley or smaller charger pulley.not as easy as turbocharging.but we wanna stay in the s/c category and we have to choose the water-air intercooler because of the short intake path and lower boost loss.one more thing we can make the system to operate at higher than 100% efficiency meaning a 100% efficiency i/c can reduce intake air temp. the same as ambient air temp, but more than 100% efficiency (although it's not right to use this term) we can lower the intake temp below the ambient temp by using the means of chargecooling using the ice or N2O or whatsoever to reduce the intake temp.pls correct me if i'm wrong.

 

[speedchaser]

Marine pumps are ok if it can stand the heat. If you wanna do it, do it right the first time and it ain't no fun with water sloshing everywhere believe me. The oil-cooler acting as the heat exchanger will never cut it because it's meant for flowing oil. Using oil cooler will just be a stop gap measure.

I agree that longer piping will contributes to pressure loss and also if it's on an AE101 or 92 GZE, the idling will be everywhere instead of being stable. But then, pressure is one thing efficiency is another. What you lose in pressure, you gain much in colder air if it's a front mount. Power is not being made by psi alone and you gain more by improving on your volumetric efficiency.

W/A intercooler with ice in the reservoir will definitely bring the air below ambient and it's good for drags but if you feel that it's not a hassle of hauling packs of ice everywhere you go, it'll be a good setup. But when the ice melts, you'll be back to square one again. W/A is good for cars with tight spaces, especially on an MR2, and it's also have much more temp stability but I would still prefer a front mount air/air intercooler anytime. I've done it on my car last time around when I was still running an supercharger (SC12) with a smaller pulley.

If you really want to do a comparison, before you go W/A, do a test on pre and post SC temp first. When you've set it up with the W/A, do the test again and you'll see what I mean.

I can try to forward you some links if you want.

 

[Danny]

thats quite an interesting mod, dolly, where can I find marine pumps ? If it it can be DIYed, I would like to try this out. What other tools are needed?

 

[turbo10]

thanks speedchaser 4 ur advise.it's really good to have guys like u all with all the experience.my car is going to use the ice only during competition.so during daily use just fill the resevoir tank with water,btw what kinda pump u use speedchaser.it might be more effective than the marine ones.ifi'm running a turbocharger i will surely choose front mount i/c.even my 1st choice was front mount i/c,but i got to try something better,cooler air with higher boost...hehe..a bit greedy.so how do i cool the water instead using the oil cooler,can i modify a l200 intercooler to act as a heat exchanger?

 

[dolly]

danny, search for iwaki malaysia @ google, the price will blow ur mind, but for the size, MANY pumps get dominated by their insane pressure

 

[speedchaser]

I'd used a Jabsco Centri-Puppy which is kinda bloody expensive here but it does the job. Have to remember that when you boost, you have to make sure the pump is capable of flowing the heated water to the heat exchanger. BTW the water temp can rise to 80+C on some occasion depending on the efficiency of your turbo. If you are using the SC with a bigger pulley (175mm) the heat is enormous. I've blown 2 pumps on my learning curve that's how I know. When you plan for a pump, do not be mislead with the how much pressure the pump is capable of, for what you need is a good flowrate of at least 40gpm and above.

When you plan the flow structure, make sure the charge cooler is at the highest point in of the flow and make sure there's bleeding valve in place in the cooler. The water flow should go from bottom of the heat exchanger to the top to prevent bubbles. You can never guess what a little bubbles can wreak havoc to your temp.

Intercooler is meant for flowing air, yet theoritically in fluid dynamics it shouldn't be a problem but I would still prefer a custom made aluminium core which should be more than 600sq inch to start with.