My 2L B-Series N/A Project

[V8_nutter]

Chris which cam you plan to play ?

 

[V8_nutter]

Ya, Hondata does make tuning ITB alot easier due to the option available to tune via TPS voltage! But still not as simple. Brands like TWM or even TODA uses non-stock honda sensors, so need to do some rewiring then re-calibrate them to Hondata ecu. And all this not many tuners are competent or proven satisfactory to what is want. Idle setting via TPS was told by the matsalleh also very tough. hehe.. But if you got plan to go above NA 300whp on the B-Series, then ITB is really the only way to go.

But on the Omni ITB, i heard there is still some minor issue to make it, fully bolt on and prices they are still trying to make it cheaper than TWM.

ya, 5-zigen i did measure long time ago that it is similar to ITR thats why i went DC 4-1 which about the same size as Mugen 4-1 but cheaper than Mugen. hehe.. Look forward to your results in the 5zigen

It's better to leave the TPS within std marking,,,i didnt see any significant improvement when meddling with it. Or perhaps anyone can highlight the benefit here ?:regular_smile:

 

[chris2000]

Chris which cam you plan to play ?

Seriously bro, i don't know yet. With my current CP piston i have, my compression will be around 11.5:1 depending what gasket or how much i mill my head. If assuming with these piston, i can't go too high with cams so i might be using the TOda C that my mech has now and that he let me use foc. But with these cams on 2L, i've seen many setup where power only peak at about 7600rpm to 7900rpm on ITR intake and Mugen 4-1 extractor.

If i need more power up the rev, i really got to get more things done like better intake and big tube extractor as well as a must in bump up of compression to minimum of 12.5:1 to run big big lift cams thats comes with high overlap that will reduce my dynamic compression.

So, if and only if i finally decide with a different and higher comp piston, then i might try something like Toda D, Buddy Club 4 or 5 or Skunk2 Pro Series. Depends what i can get hold off at good price. If no budget, then may just go back to Toda C.

 

[V8_nutter]

I never do circuit racing,,,its a matter of preferences. But what i heard ppl look for a cam that give them good midrange just to shoot out of the corner/turn quickly and for the topend,,,,so so is consider ok. It more depends on your driving style,,,if you like holding gear longer at the corner, perhaps top end cam will suits you.

Cp with approx 11.5 compression is good with high cam providing you can dial in ignition closed to maximum, with this setup you will get back the low to mid power. If your head is very good at knocking tolerence,,,low compression + high ignition wont make it knock (must gosok the head a bit) and it wont stall too.

No need to worry with big cams + low comp engine. Do the setup right, dial in the cam right, gosok the head abit,,,you can get power down below with advancing the ignition.

Or if your head is ultra knock tolerence you can play high comp with high cams with high ignition without even knock,,,.

 

[chris2000]

It's better to leave the TPS within std marking,,,i didnt see any significant improvement when meddling with it. Or perhaps anyone can highlight the benefit here ?:regular_smile:

For stock throttle it is better to leave it at stock. If TPS been remove before from stock throttle or if remove to install to ITB, it is recommended to adjust the TPS sensor to the correct voltage/position so that the ecu know the exact location when throttle is WOT, idle, part, or how many percent open. When this is done normally the car idle better and easier to tune the car.

I don't think any improvement just moving around with it. Just to calibrate it only.

 

[V8_nutter]

Forgot to mention,,,chris you are playing super series right ? meaning in the middle of afternoon,,,those setup cannot do,,,since its for the nighttime setup. Day and night setup is difference,,,you can't play with ignition much especially in the afternoon.

Same thing with cams,,dial in more can do in nighttime,,,but when play afternoon it will knock.

 

[chris2000]

I never do circuit racing,,,its a matter of preferences. But what i heard ppl look for a cam that give them good midrange just to shoot out of the corner/turn quickly and for the topend,,,,so so is consider ok. It more depends on your driving style,,,if you like holding gear longer at the corner, perhaps top end cam will suits you.

From what i hear from drag customers is that they need Peak top end power cause it is a short burst and they want the power like from 6000rpm to 10000rpm. Sufficient torque only needed for take off (60ft time) but too much they waste too much time in wheel spin. But i think every drag driver is different style and i can't comment too much cause i don't drag other then my grid start or launch on the 1st lap. hehe..

For me, track racing, flat torque is very important for quick corner exit as well as to counter steer to pull the car back if i made a stupid mistake. And one more thing very important (my personal feel only) in track racing is TRANSIENT respond. I don't care if i had 200whp or 300whp, but i want a setup that from the transsition of part throttle to WOT, the car must react instaneous if possible and to get 200whp quick rather then a setup that when i WOT i need to wait and wait till it suddenly pull and hit 300whp. :shocked:

 

[chris2000]

Cp with approx 11.5 compression is good with high cam providing you can dial in ignition closed to maximum, with this setup you will get back the low to mid power. If your head is very good at knocking tolerence,,,low compression + high ignition wont make it knock (must gosok the head a bit) and it wont stall too.

No need to worry with big cams + low comp engine. Do the setup right, dial in the cam right, gosok the head abit,,,you can get power down below with advancing the ignition.

Or if your head is ultra knock tolerence you can play high comp with high cams with high ignition without even knock,,,.

11.5 compression can make good power, but i know if i had use wild cams like TODA D or Buddy Club 5, i will definetely lose lots of low end to mid compared to say Toda C.

Low rev ignition should be high, but if daily use or track use, I personally don't want to run crazy ignition due to the additional stress the engine has.

So personal setting would be run more aggressive ignition in lower rev and gradually reducing them as rev climbs and will keep increasing ignition till knock then back off. After all this is done, I normally back down 1 full degree on WOT on the whole map, to give it some reliability.

Not only will our head be massage on but piston will also be getting some massage. So those shiny stuff you guys see will eventually be dull and ugly when its on the block. :)

Forgot to mention,,,chris you are playing super series right ? meaning in the middle of afternoon,,,those setup cannot do,,,since its for the nighttime setup. Day and night setup is difference,,,you can't play with ignition much especially in the afternoon.

Same thing with cams,,dial in more can do in nighttime,,,but when play afternoon it will knock.

Car will always be tune during the daytime and for hot intake temp and high water temp. The beauty about Hondata is that i can set compensation for different weather conditions, like when intake temp is low (night) and/or lower water temp, I can adjust/add/remove ignition and fuel to optimise power back at night. :shades_smile:

I personally haven't tried this, but will definetely doing some test on this.

 

[J101]

http://www.buddyclub.us/buddyclub/cams/cams_f.html

prolly im getting old, they have spec 6 already from the buddyclub. i noticed the spec it should be good for track and road race purposes. unlike the type5 which has the same similarities like the toda d and meant for super duper high compression engines that has to be overhauled after few races or drags.

chris, the toda C2 looks good to me. the price are fairly cheaper lately compared few months back.

 

[chris2000]

http://www.buddyclub.us/buddyclub/cams/cams_f.html

prolly im getting old, they have spec 6 already from the buddyclub. i noticed the spec it should be good for track and road race purposes. unlike the type5 which has the same similarities like the toda d and meant for super duper high compression engines that has to be overhauled after few races or drags.

chris, the toda C2 looks good to me. the price are fairly cheaper lately compared few months back.

Ya, i know they have Spec 6 but my contact in states say that they actually not officially for sale yet. And yes, that spec 6 was suppose to be use for road race engine setup.

I have seen people making good power with the Buddy spec5 and toda d but like i said they all running very high compression to increase the dynamic compression to fit the high overlap. if not, low end suffer like hell.

Toda C2 is indeed at a very good price now!! But my mech is going to let me use foc for the toda c. C2 only has extra 5 degree duration on both side and i feel it won't be a big improvement over the C i can use for free. :regular_smile: If i gonna pay and buy new, i want to spend the money on a much higher cam spec and not 5 degree more than what i have now.

 

[avantasia]

more interesting here to discuss!!!

i wish i could built 1 engine by my own hands!!!

 

[ace79]

Great too see a tuning shop fella spilling the beans on his own 2 litre B series setup. Now I hope more tuning shop will understand, the real power made is not from what parts you use, but how you set them up, and most importantly for NA's, what type of work done to the head.

As for me, naaahhhhhhhh. 2 litre Bee is way too expensive for me. I'll stay with a B16A tuning, 180 HPs at the wheel ( well, that's the idea now, since I know what to do, what to fit and where to get it done ), that's good enough for me. Maybe with some fibreglass bodyparts as well, and a custom OEM GB? Heheh.

 

[xxxx]

ace79,

wat do u mean by tuning shops?

shops tat sell performance parts or shops tat tune performance cars? haha.....

 

[ace79]

Tuning shops as in shops that tune cars lah weiiii.....Wei, when will u be free larrr?

This 2 litre talk is making me, anxious to see the final outcome. Wish I have the finances for such a mad Frankenstein mod, hats off to u Chris@Pentagon!

Ok, back to subject!

ace79,

wat do u mean by tuning shops?

shops tat sell performance parts or shops tat tune performance cars? haha.....

 

[takashi78]

Looks like u posting in Honda-Tech and ZTH huh...

http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread/1885263


Why not try the SMSP header that is proven on so many 2liter setups?

 

[chris2000]

Great too see a tuning shop fella spilling the beans on his own 2 litre B series setup. Now I hope more tuning shop will understand, the real power made is not from what parts you use, but how you set them up, and most importantly for NA's, what type of work done to the head.

As for me, naaahhhhhhhh. 2 litre Bee is way too expensive for me. I'll stay with a B16A tuning, 180 HPs at the wheel ( well, that's the idea now, since I know what to do, what to fit and where to get it done ), that's good enough for me. Maybe with some fibreglass bodyparts as well, and a custom OEM GB? Heheh.

hoho... Big big mistake. Me or the company i work is not tuning shop. We don't tune or built cars. Pentagon is only a shop wholesaling and retailing performance car parts. People who had came to visit will know.

Myself a motorsport fan and tries very hard to help the motorsport industry to grow by supporting racers and friends with quality products at competitive price. And my interest in engines and their mechanics had got myself into researching and studying about getting more reliable power. Like i said in earlier post, many builders, tuners or even owners in malaysia, doing good build and power hardly want to share with the public for some reason or another including myself. But it has come to a point where i felt there is a need to share as much info as i could to everyone who will benefit from my build or even learn my mistakes in this build or just to see if my engine will blow. In this process of building this engine, i'm sure myself will learn alot from it and i want everyone in this forum to learn as much as i could. I know many tuners or builder who can/is reading this thread may really get pissed with me for providing 2 much info.

And i stress again, i'm no tuner or builder or any genius in this. I'm just another guy trying to learn how to build as a hobby/interest and to try stupid things in this built to see if it will work or blow and want to share with everyone who reads this thread.

Happy Motoring and Happy Modding Guys!! :_:

 

[chris2000]

Looks like u posting in Honda-Tech and ZTH huh...

http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread/1885263


Why not try the SMSP header that is proven on so many 2liter setups?

Yup bro.. Good search you have there..

Honda-Tech to get info and tips to make a better build Locally in Malaysia.

ZTH to share my process of my build to acknowledge everyone here.

Hopefully build will go as plan so Malaysia pun Boleh!


One of the 4-2-1 tri-y header i posted in earlier page was indeed SMSP!!! :regular_smile: I really love them and been proven in USA for the power making. A check with them previously, and got a shocking quote on the custom header and it is almost 12 weeks wait time!! Can't afford to pay that kind of price as my money can spend else where like buying another B18C-R engine kosong if this build blow. hehe..

 

[V8_nutter]

Ya, i know they have Spec 6 but my contact in states say that they actually not officially for sale yet. And yes, that spec 6 was suppose to be use for road race engine setup.

I have seen people making good power with the Buddy spec5 and toda d but like i said they all running very high compression to increase the dynamic compression to fit the high overlap. if not, low end suffer like hell.

Toda C2 is indeed at a very good price now!! But my mech is going to let me use foc for the toda c. C2 only has extra 5 degree duration on both side and i feel it won't be a big improvement over the C i can use for free. :regular_smile: If i gonna pay and buy new, i want to spend the money on a much higher cam spec and not 5 degree more than what i have now.

Chris since you have more experience on using different cams ,,,could you inform me which one has the highest peak RPM power,,,other than jun 4 ? For machine that has cut off 11,000rpm.

 

[shiroitenshi]

Met Chong yesterday afternoon.. the usual place.. :P
Me? Doing the usual thing.. disturbing people at h/cut shops.. :P
Just arrived back at 3 am just now.

11,000rpm.. woah.. must need some serious duration numbers I think.. I wonder if V8nutter will share what duration he's using once he gets it ironed out.. my guess.. 280-290 degrees thereabouts.. random wild guess.. :P

Chris.. who's going to doing the tuning on your ITB setup if you do use one, hypothetically speaking? Just curious, since there is a (sergent/sergeant/sturgeon? Damn the japanese and weird names) ITB lying around somewhere here, although at the current moment, no car, engine not done yet = not so soon.. :P

 

[boyvtec]

11,000rpm?? fuhhh!!