2005 German GP of Nurburg

[cyclonite]

Man ohh man... if I was Kimi I would have been so dissapointed and crying after what happened man.... If only he slowed down abit, maybe take 2nd or 3rd place... better than nothing. Mercedes must have been so upset at their home GP too.

 

[BlackSamurai]

10 to 0. Sorry for Kimi, but McLaren shall have call him in for checking (Or Maybe McLaren mech dunno how to fix it?) . I watch the replay, the strong vibration start even 8 laps before the race end.

 

[butthead]

10 to 0. Sorry for Kimi, but McLaren shall have call him in for checking (Or Maybe McLaren mech dunno how to fix it?) . I watch the replay, the strong vibration start even 8 laps before the race end.

can't blame the team or Kimi...i would think McLaren would have not called in Kimi and risk losing position...even if they call i think Kimi would object to the decision made by the team...and the degradation of the tyres was not any fault of Kimi or Michellin...it was purely Kimi's duties of driving the wheels of that car and secure the most points he can...

furthermore, i think there would be complications in changing Kimi's tyres...i think the rules only allow any changes of tyres to be made if it was punctured...FIA was the biggest fool for creating this new 1 tyre rule...i think it is endangering the safety of the sport...looking at the playback of the crash...how close was Kimi to Buton...Kimi nearly rear ended Button...and the tyre was so close to hitting Kimi on his head from the looks of the video...if the wheel retainer was broken it would have been a disaster and even a fatality incident...

the teams should put this in mind and protest against this ridiculous rule...we wouldn't want anymore high speed tyre blown ups in the future...

 

[BlackSamurai]

McLaren want to lose a race or a driver?
safety come first.

but agree with butthead, the 1 tire set for the entire GP is ridiculous.

 

[Wira v6 MIVEC]

Me too...fell so sorry 4 kimi..if not the tyre..he sure win adi wan...but its ok la...there r
many races to go...so lets c..hope he does well in the coming races..Mclaren RULEZ!!

 

[GT3]

frankly when u are in a position where u can win n there are only 2 to 3 laps to go.. a racing driver would not want to pit and he would rather take the chance.. espeacially a competitive 1 like kimi..

and btw its not the tyre rules fault that causes the blow up.. i mean its how u drive the car.. alonso n other michelin drivers dint blow up too even they push really hard.. kimi's tyre problem was inflicted by the way he drove the race today.. he had a couple of errors (off to the gravel and lock ups) and that destroys his tyres

 

[butthead]

frankly when u are in a position where u can win n there are only 2 to 3 laps to go.. a racing driver would not want to pit and he would rather take the chance.. espeacially a competitive 1 like kimi..

and btw its not the tyre rules fault that causes the blow up.. i mean its how u drive the car.. alonso n other michelin drivers dint blow up too even they push really hard.. kimi's tyre problem was inflicted by the way he drove the race today.. he had a couple of errors (off to the gravel and lock ups) and that destroys his tyres

the fault of the tyre blowing up was partly due to Kimi as he locked up a few times...but as a driver he has his duties of pushing to the limit to get the maximum number of points for both his teams and himself...and he also knows that he does not really has that much of an advantage over Alonso as he pitted much earlier compared to Alonso...

gambling his position is not much of a choice either...they really did not have any options to choose from...not being able to change tyres really did screw up his race...if he were able to change tyres he would have went in to pit much sooner before his tyres and lap time deteriorated..at least he would have a better chance of coming back out and attack at a much more faster pace than letting Alonso close in on him...even Rubens first win at Hockenheim if i am not wrong few years back was much of a risk...half of the track was raining and wet while the other was dry...with around 10laps to go Mika pitted for wets and Rubens stayed on dry tyres...was fast on dry sector of the track and Rubens and Mika was fast on the wet sector and Rubens finished winning the race...a stunning P18 to P1...

 

[GT3]

the fault of the tyre blowing up was partly due to Kimi as he locked up a few times...but as a driver he has his duties of pushing to the limit to get the maximum number of points for both his teams and himself...and he also knows that he does not really has that much of an advantage over Alonso as he pitted much earlier compared to Alonso...


erm well thats the point.. now a driver need to take care of his tyres and at the sametime drive at the limit.. that require alot of driver's ability.. a driver hav to be good in driving and at the sametime be very intelligent.. push when u can and when u cant drive sensiblely to mimimize damage.. i admire kimi's driving but honestly it seems that alonso are smarter in terms of racing (personally i think both should be abt the same level in terms of driving, mayb kimi hav some edge sometimes mayb alonso have it other times)

 

[cyclonite]

and the tyre was so close to hitting Kimi on his head from the looks of the video...if the wheel retainer was broken it would have been a disaster and even a fatality incident...

The wheel retainer is to protect against the wheel flying out to hit other people like marshals or other staff.

Nowadays the wheels can't hit the driver's helmet because of the raised height of the cockpit protecting the driver.

 

[minivan]

The wheel retainer is to protect against the wheel flying out to hit other people like marshals or other staff.

Nowadays the wheels can't hit the driver's helmet because of the raised height of the cockpit protecting the driver.

sure enough.... but i was blurdy close to making a pancake out of his head...

anyhow, so blurdy ironic... last lap, after leading the entire race.... so close, yet so far....

 

[minivan]

another thing.... yes his tyres had problems... they shook like nobodys business... but in the slow-mo, his suspension went kaboom first right?? due to the wobbling wheel and tyre of course...

 

[Acoustic]

the 1 tyres set rules reduces driver's opportunity for 100% speed and made them into strategies

25% (lets see who got a problem and retired so that I don't have to push so hard)
25% (lets see - don't hurt my tyres, 3 stops strategy works)
25% (lets see - carry less fuel is faster naturally, 3 stops strategy works)
25% (lets see - no one else got problem, I got no problem, ok lah go fast)

what's the point of F1?

 

[butthead]

the fault of the tyre blowing up was partly due to Kimi as he locked up a few times...but as a driver he has his duties of pushing to the limit to get the maximum number of points for both his teams and himself...and he also knows that he does not really has that much of an advantage over Alonso as he pitted much earlier compared to Alonso...


erm well thats the point.. now a driver need to take care of his tyres and at the sametime drive at the limit.. that require alot of driver's ability.. a driver hav to be good in driving and at the sametime be very intelligent.. push when u can and when u cant drive sensiblely to mimimize damage.. i admire kimi's driving but honestly it seems that alonso are smarter in terms of racing (personally i think both should be abt the same level in terms of driving, mayb kimi hav some edge sometimes mayb alonso have it other times)

driving sensibly is also one of the things they need to do among 100s of others...but tyre wear is uncontrollable right...u could not possibly ask a driver to drive as slow as possible to prevent tyre damage right...if FIA were trying to limit tyre use like 2 sets per race then i would not argue...no tyre change is too much...

a much simillar scenario to Kimi's one would be Schumacher in Barcelona...his tyres was noticably bald and i don't think he was not pacing himself to preserve his set of tyres...i remember he did post quite a few fast laps before his pits...in this sort of situations what could the drivers do except waiting for his tyres to explode...and for Schumacher's set of tyres...changing only the punctured ones was only waiting for disaster as that track heavily wears out left tyres...they also know that sooner or later the left front would puncture, jus not as fast as 1 lap after changing 1 of the tyres...

 

[butthead]

The wheel retainer is to protect against the wheel flying out to hit other people like marshals or other staff.

Nowadays the wheels can't hit the driver's helmet because of the raised height of the cockpit protecting the driver.

"The wheel retainer is to protect against the wheel flying out to hit other people like marshals or other staff" very true as it increases of the sport...but lets face it...there is a 50-50 chance that the retainer might break during a collision...and 1 as high speed as Kimi's one is jus plain dangerous...

the first race with wheel retainer rule were also marred by a marshal death...it was at Australia Albert Park...the incident were a crash between Ralf and Jacques...the wheel apparently flew off and through a hole in the safety perimeter fence and hit the marshal in the chest...that was the year after the Monza marshal death...maybe you'd think that was the first race and the first year the rule was implemented...but i think that that was not the only time the retainer broke...

my point is although they would have designed the retainer to be safe enough not to hit the driver...there is still an unknown factor that could cause it to break...and imagine if Kimi's retainer broke...it would have been another great driver lost...

 

[GT3]

driving sensibly is also one of the things they need to do among 100s of others...but tyre wear is uncontrollable right...u could not possibly ask a driver to drive as slow as possible to prevent tyre damage right...if FIA were trying to limit tyre use like 2 sets per race then i would not argue...no tyre change is too much...

a much simillar scenario to Kimi's one would be Schumacher in Barcelona...his tyres was noticably bald and i don't think he was not pacing himself to preserve his set of tyres...i remember he did post quite a few fast laps before his pits...in this sort of situations what could the drivers do except waiting for his tyres to explode...and for Schumacher's set of tyres...changing only the punctured ones was only waiting for disaster as that track heavily wears out left tyres...they also know that sooner or later the left front would puncture, jus not as fast as 1 lap after changing 1 of the tyres...

well frankly there are many factors a driver couldnt control.. tyre puncture is 1 of them.. and as for schumacher's case.. the reason his tyre burst don think was clarify yet but the team n bridgestone personnal was suspecting that it caught some debris if my memory serves me right

and kimi's case wasnt really so much the same.. i mean if u look at the way he drove yday.. i think he overabuse the car.. i know he has alonso eating up his lead n therefore he needs to push but when ur car has a limit u better stick to the limit.. n not over it.. its better i presume to hav alonso catch up and defend him with a more preserve set of tyre.. f1 is so hard to overtake now when u are faster by a couple second also may not be able to overtake.. provided u are smart.. this was show by Mr Alonso during imola grand prix

 

[GT3]

the 1 tyres set rules reduces driver's opportunity for 100% speed and made them into strategies

25% (lets see who got a problem and retired so that I don't have to push so hard)
25% (lets see - don't hurt my tyres, 3 stops strategy works)
25% (lets see - carry less fuel is faster naturally, 3 stops strategy works)
25% (lets see - no one else got problem, I got no problem, ok lah go fast)

what's the point of F1?

well i agree with u that 1 set of tyres theoratically limit the opportunity to drive at 100% speed.. however i think there are stuffs that u omit.. there are many drivers that could do a fast lap but couldnt deliver that consistently.. and normally those who cant are those that does not know how to take care of tyre wear.. it is rare when a driver could drive a car fast but still preserve the car n tyres over a long distance.. its art and it separates good drivers from the great 1s

and btw i think the tyre rule in a way improves f1.. i mean last time when they could change tyre ppl keep saying f1 is boring, no overtaking, just sprint between fuel stops.. well now it seems that the tyre rule has change all these.. i see much more overtaking this yr alone than the last couple of yrs.. isnt it more exciting now? f1 is still the fastest motorsport in the world n now its becoming more interesting.. i think the pt of f1 is still intact if not better

 

[butthead]

well frankly there are many factors a driver couldnt control.. tyre puncture is 1 of them.. and as for schumacher's case.. the reason his tyre burst don think was clarify yet but the team n bridgestone personnal was suspecting that it caught some debris if my memory serves me right

and kimi's case wasnt really so much the same.. i mean if u look at the way he drove yday.. i think he overabuse the car.. i know he has alonso eating up his lead n therefore he needs to push but when ur car has a limit u better stick to the limit.. n not over it.. its better i presume to hav alonso catch up and defend him with a more preserve set of tyre.. f1 is so hard to overtake now when u are faster by a couple second also may not be able to overtake.. provided u are smart.. this was show by Mr Alonso during imola grand prix

"caught some debris"... wat's the difference...still the driver needs to wait for the tyre to puncture...even if a driver knows that he could have a high chance of puncturing his tyre after running through a crash with lots of carbon fibre shards on the road...he still could not pit for new tyres...i really do hope they change the tyre rule...limitting it to lesser sets is a better option in my opinion...

as i said, it is hard to tell a driver to slow down his pace even when his rival is eating into his lead... Imola and Nurburgring is a much different track...in Imola u have more of the fast sweeping corners with very little road width...it is easier to defend a line in Imola compared to nurburg... Nurburg has a much wider road and the first corner is a good place to overtake...the way JPM overtook Button side by side shows how wide the road was...did Michael do that in Imola???

furthermore Alonso is better launching out at the corner exits...with track like this i would not risk having my rivals near me...if Alonso is anywhere near Kimi i bet he would try to go deep in the first corner and outrun kimi into turn 2, 3 and 4...jus like JPM and Button...

as for Alonso at Imola... from my perspective he was trying at all costs to block anyone who had chance of passing him...i think he even tried several times braking early into the corners trying to catch Michael out...Michael locked up several times following his back...as experienced a driver as MIchael i am sure he would not miss his braking points that often... Alonso did that not only once in the past...the most severe one was at Spa 1 year where he by accident or intentionally braked early into "bus stop" and caused DC to swerve right and straight off the road and ended his race...i think Kimi would be much more sporting and would not do that...

 

[butthead]

well i agree with u that 1 set of tyres theoratically limit the opportunity to drive at 100% speed.. however i think there are stuffs that u omit.. there are many drivers that could do a fast lap but couldnt deliver that consistently.. and normally those who cant are those that does not know how to take care of tyre wear.. it is rare when a driver could drive a car fast but still preserve the car n tyres over a long distance.. its art and it separates good drivers from the great 1s

and btw i think the tyre rule in a way improves f1.. i mean last time when they could change tyre ppl keep saying f1 is boring, no overtaking, just sprint between fuel stops.. well now it seems that the tyre rule has change all these.. i see much more overtaking this yr alone than the last couple of yrs.. isnt it more exciting now? f1 is still the fastest motorsport in the world n now its becoming more interesting.. i think the pt of f1 is still intact if not better

the new tyre rule make F1 more interesting...that i would need to give it a second thought...those who said last year and the previous years were boring is jus not paying attention...even if Michael has gotten the lead there would still be constant action behind at the mid-field...

if a lot of drivers would have think like u did they would never try to overtake anybody anymore as there is a high chance of screwing up their tyres...and most of the overtaking manuevers this year was mainly because of detereorating grip...the Nick-Alonso, Webber - Alonso for instance is an example...did u think Alonso did not manage his tyres...much of the overtaking maneuvers in the past few years is much more exciting than this year...i was almost asleep watching all the race this year except for the Bahrain GP where Pedro was having a go at everyone and San Marino where Schumacher was fantastic...

Sorry if any of my words seem harsh...i am jus not a big fan of this years 1 tyre per race rule...

 

[GT3]

"caught some debris"... wat's the difference...still the driver needs to wait for the tyre to puncture...even if a driver knows that he could have a high chance of puncturing his tyre after running through a crash with lots of carbon fibre shards on the road...he still could not pit for new tyres...i really do hope they change the tyre rule...limitting it to lesser sets is a better option in my opinion...

as i said, it is hard to tell a driver to slow down his pace even when his rival is eating into his lead... Imola and Nurburgring is a much different track...in Imola u have more of the fast sweeping corners with very little road width...it is easier to defend a line in Imola compared to nurburg... Nurburg has a much wider road and the first corner is a good place to overtake...the way JPM overtook Button side by side shows how wide the road was...did Michael do that in Imola???

furthermore Alonso is better launching out at the corner exits...with track like this i would not risk having my rivals near me...if Alonso is anywhere near Kimi i bet he would try to go deep in the first corner and outrun kimi into turn 2, 3 and 4...jus like JPM and Button...

as for Alonso at Imola... from my perspective he was trying at all costs to block anyone who had chance of passing him...i think he even tried several times braking early into the corners trying to catch Michael out...Michael locked up several times following his back...as experienced a driver as MIchael i am sure he would not miss his braking points that often... Alonso did that not only once in the past...the most severe one was at Spa 1 year where he by accident or intentionally braked early into "bus stop" and caused DC to swerve right and straight off the road and ended his race...i think Kimi would be much more sporting and would not do that...

well the difference is even last yr when they could change the tyres.. they would not know that they caught debris even until they explode.. however ur right in a way.. they could change their tyre half way through.. but i m sure they rarely do it straight after they pass by an acident spot.. remember indianapa polis last yr when alonso n ralf crash out? they caught debris n explode b4 they get to their routine stop.. therefore u can only say that the limitation of the new tyre rule is that a tyre can only puncture when its overly abuse by either the driver or the setup of the car

by the way what i meant was not asking kimi to slow down n let alonso pass.. if i m not wrong kimi is a good defensive driver too.. and i also know nurburgring has quite a few passing spot.. but honestly given the chance.. would u rather risk bursting ur tyre by pushing fast when u know ur tyre is already heavily damaged or rather slow down n preserve ur tyre so that u at least have some edge to defend ur own position against ur rivals which in this case is alonso.. if alonso is better at slow corners then kimi can do things to prevent alonso to overtake him there.. that was exactly what alonso did to schumacher in imola (there are less overtaking spot but when u are 2 seconds faster it makes it easier to overtake.. jus ask button.. haha) .. he knows michael is faster at fast corners and entering.. hence he try to defend michael by driving slower at those places.. its called racing.. i m sorry but gentleman loose first in racing.. not to mention mclaren n renault are almost equally strong yday.. n in modern f1 cars when ur car is abt the same as ur opponent its really tough to overtake when u defend properly (even if a circuit is easier on overtaking than imola)..

 

[GT3]

the new tyre rule make F1 more interesting...that i would need to give it a second thought...those who said last year and the previous years were boring is jus not paying attention...even if Michael has gotten the lead there would still be constant action behind at the mid-field...

if a lot of drivers would have think like u did they would never try to overtake anybody anymore as there is a high chance of screwing up their tyres...and most of the overtaking manuevers this year was mainly because of detereorating grip...the Nick-Alonso, Webber - Alonso for instance is an example...did u think Alonso did not manage his tyres...much of the overtaking maneuvers in the past few years is much more exciting than this year...i was almost asleep watching all the race this year except for the Bahrain GP where Pedro was having a go at everyone and San Marino where Schumacher was fantastic...

Sorry if any of my words seem harsh...i am jus not a big fan of this years 1 tyre per race rule...

erm i m sorry i did pay attention to formula 1 many yrs.. not only on tv but a few megazines abt it.. last yr n the yr b4 yes i admit there are overtaking.. but like u said in MID FIELD.. i mean is it more exciting when drivers are competing for the win or when drivers are competing for second or even like the tenth position? i think its for the win.. n so far i saw 2 race that drivers are competing for the win at the closing stage of a GP.. imola n nurburgring.. imola wasnt becoz of deteorating tyre grip and nurburgring to some extend yes it is

and as for monaco.. well i mention earlier in another post (i admit i omitted abt it when i first post) that tyres are destroy by either the way the driver drove it or how they setup the car.. monaco renault has both their car heavily field n therefore screw their tyres.. but did u see how alonso managed to keep nick n mark behind him? n not only for a lap.. n even fisi.. he hold up so many faster car behind him.. honestly to me thats something very exciting.. to see a driver holding up few drivers for his position when his car are not up to standard.. like i said earlier it requires really good skill to do that.. of coz u need to be able to know how tough isit to do that only u will admire..

btw another thing.. u say this yr most of the overtaking was becoz of deteorating grip.. if i dint memorize wrongly.. that was what happen to the many overtaking few yrs ago.. i remember last time overtaking happen when for the similiar reason.. brigdestone was not heated up enuff after fuel stop n hence less grip than michelin drivers.. n hence was having trouble when they were attacted by michelin drivers.. those overtaking maneuvers probably look more exciting to u but frankly to me its abt the same.. its still the same principle.. attact when ur opponent has less grip than u... many michelin cars (mclaren williams BAR renault) move against brigestone cars (Ferrari) was done under these conditions.. they attact when brigestone was having problem to heat up n hence generate less grip

p/s: i m not a big fan of any tyre rules although i must say i prefer the tyre rule this yr for racing.. i just see the benefit n limitation of both rules.. tyre rules last time allows a driver drives faster but has less worry abt tyre wear n hence less chances of making error (less overtaking opportunities) and this yr drivers still hav to push faster but at the sametime take care of their tyres (show driver's ability more), downside sometimes its dangerous esp when drivers overuse its tyre.. but honestly i do appreciate how good n brave f1 drivers are becoz i did formula racing b4 so i know how difficult isit for them to race at those speed consistently..