Nuclear power

csl

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What's the different between honda civic EG vs FD2?

What's different between Nokia 3210 vs N8?

Old stories are history. What we have today is another level of hard/software. Totally cannot use history to justify the risk. The most just only can be a reference and nothing more than that. What we have now is same damage but lower possibilities to be happen. And many ways to prevent sht happen. Why a nuclear plant cannot be a floating platform? Why must be build on land? And why a floating platform cannot built and stay on land? Why cooling must use water but nothing else as emergency substitute? Why emergency respond must wait until smoke come out but not trigger before sht happen? How a remote monitoring system works? A lot of things can be done but no one has interest to think out of a box for a solution. This is one of the reason I made this thread besides complaining Malaysians politicians' stupidity. I'm not Obama but I want malaysians to change. My little capability is up to here.

One of the function of history is for people to learn the fault from the past. But we only know to history to deny future. I'm not saying you jat1917, you provide valuable information. People can learn from the video (but how much they can catch is no guaranty). I'm pointing to the female politicians from DAP who wrote an article on Chinapress.
 

mizunori77

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people WONT die from using old mobile phones, the most is they get laughed at for being a tech dinosaur.

however, people will die when exposed to radiation, regardless of how technologically advanced the society or the nation has become.

there is a singular weakness amongst all the countries, regardless of technology or whatever inventions humans can create. that weakness is our physiology.

we are not superhumans that can withstand high doses of radiation.

in japan's case, radiation levels of up to 400 mSv per HOUR were recorded near Fukushima Reactor 4, while 100 mSv per YEAR is considered a safe level.

japan's super advanced technology couldn't protect the 50 people working day and night at fukushima nuclear plant from dying.

i sincerely salute the 50 people sacrificing their lives while trying desperate to save thousands of others.

do you think the employees of malaysian electrical companies WILL SACRIFICE THEIR LIVES to protect others when they couldn't be bothered to even talk to us nicely when we report power outages? sometimes they don't even answer the damn phone!

as another malaysian, i will NOT agree to some money-making project that will endanger my life or the life of my family and friends or my future generations, just because some politicians think it is cool to have not one, but two nuclear plants in the country.

if they want nuclear plants, they can build one on some island far away and live with the damn nuclear plant next door. they don't even have to worry about not having enough electricity.

for the rest of us malaysians, we would rather have wind farms or solar power which although would cost more, it won't kill us.

btw, WHICH mega project in malaysia is not costly? would you rather pay A LOT and die faster or pay A LOT but live longer? :hmmmm:
 

jat1917

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agree with mizunori77..too high the risk to build nuke power plant..if the nuke fail,the victim is people..not just hundred people will be victim,but thousand people..we must think about the risk before we agree with it...
 

BE5RSK

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If we look at the cost benefit factor, of course nuclear power plant is more effective to produce higher energy output with less cost compared with other solutions (eg. solar, wind and hydro).

BUT the risk if something bad happened to it (accident), are utterly unbearable. Of course we can learn from history to improvise its safety by putting the greatest back-up plan and contingency plan if something bad occurred. Of course it will reduce the risk, but not totally eliminated it. If it happened, only God knows how we could survive.

One thing for sure, if shit happened to nuclear reactor plant, the risk of losing life and endanger to our future generation (radiation transmitted) are there. Not to mention the damage to environment (eg. soil, rivers, flora and fauna). And the cost of rescue operations and corrective measurement will cost us a lots of money.

As for me, i dont mind if most of the developed countries are already using it since a long time ago. It is their choice. Maybe they have very limited options to increase their energy supply to cover their industries demand. But I dont see Malaysia are in real need for this nuclear power as for now, and I do hope we will have other option (instead of nuclear) in future to meet our country's demand for energy.

Based on our current peoples' mentality and attitude (Government, Private sectors, and public), I dont think that we are ready for nuclear power at the moment, maybe even in next 30 years. Just look at Japanese peoples during facing the current catastrophe. They are absolutely in stress and panic situations, but they still gave good cooperation to their government authority to handle it. I see a lots of photo that they patiently queuing properly and follow the instructions before receive the treatment. Just imagine if the same accident happened in KL? One thing for sure, they will be like a riot situation...
 

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driftkingII

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ok, this is from my opinion.

If they still want to go on with Nuclear Power, we need people who have SKILLS !! who are willing to sacrifice their lives in their work.

sorry to say but we lack of people who are not skillful in nuclear. For example a fren of mine studying Nuclear Engineering in UKM, seriously an easy question about nuclear she cannot answer even get the correct calculation.

Well i am a n was a psychics student, so i still remembered the Nuclear Equation n Half Life formula.

Image we have people who cannot handle nuclear.. we may end up like Chernobyl !!!

Chernobyl happens just bcoz of a simple mistake same goes to the Three Miles Island nuclear disaster

how about building one nuclear powerplant.. sure u need more experience.. u can do it with normal resources.. this is not building KLCC but something which is fatal !!

they also cannot use cheap materials for it... to dangerous...

speaking of Nuclear in Japan, the Mihama Nuclear Plant is still giving probs even after it's worst accident in 2004.

Lets say after we manage to build, what happens to the nuclear waste?? xkan nak buang dlm Tong sampah or river (like most factories do)

people who are living near the nuclear reactor area are force to take vaccinations !! this will increase the medical cost..

next if happens a fatal accident.. it is going to cost more than millions of ringgit to repair n protect the people.. yes, u are not talking about a few thousand but millions... this is dangerous.. also people will be effected.

ok here ends my nuclear story..

i prefer Solar energy for Malaysia since we have sun also wind energy which we have strong winds..

i heard one Malaysian documentary, they recommend WAVE energy from the water waves in Sabah n coastal areas in Malaysia...
 

csl

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As what I expected since the beginning.

1st of all, you need to understand what is risk. To be more down to earth, risk is basically the chance of sht happen. Damage is the sht happen. Due to wrong use of the wording, things can be 180 degree turned and become another story. That had mislead a lot of people.

What type of risk we will need to face when there is a nuclear plant? Example: Nuclear core explode. What will be the damage? Answer: Every life form within certain area will die or suffer from radiation and the radio active effect will last for long time within the radius of effected area which will cause most life form unable to live there.

I believe these 2 things are the only things that most Malaysians knows and the only thing what appear in their mind is: Nuclear plant will definitely explode and we all gonna die. Nothing more that that.

I don't blame the rakyat because they never have a chance to learn about control, management, risk assessment, and etc. Those who born with such instinct or talent, had been washed out by their greedy bosses when they tried to do something good end up with kena blasted because of wasting money and time. Part of the culture. No hope. Here goes why plenty of people don't like china product and Malaysians are basically towards that direction.

Back to the topic.

When you think nuclear plant has a potential for creating a man made disaster, do you also think about what is the high potential and not like gonna happen type of root cause and the possible solution for them? If you don't think and straight away deny of its existence, here goes our future and I should consider to migrate to some other countries which have majority people who know how to think before making their stands clear. I can't blame our parliament YBs are such a bunch of fools because they need to debate like a fools to get the foolish people support. Just like those who talk about human rights in Gaddafi's parliament will eventually being wipe off outside the building by the foolish supporter. My purpose of making this thread is to encourage people to make a step forward to analyze a thing. Not jump off from no where and making a strong stand of banning women for wearing shorts because it will create traffic accident. We are not living in 200 BC BTW.

Debating on the nuclear plant is not as important as the attitude of handling an issue.

But if you would like to know about people who work in a nuclear plant, how nuclear plant works, Nuclear plant safety and etc, please google it and read from different source. As far as I know, those people who handle a very tiny volume of radio active source, they need to fulfill the requirement like professionalism, fixed neutralized schedule (including work hour), frequent medical check up, and many many more. Basically they need to have a test and obtain the license for handle the sht. On the plant building, even a bolt need to be certified. That's why when the tsunami hit japan and damage the nuclear plant cooling supply, the core won't just blow out as fast as the bomb dropped in hiroshima. They still have chance to save it from turning into a big disaster.

On the management and control point of view, if need people to sacrifice their life for saving a building, that's mean it is not good enough (I called it failure). They need to implement some policy and solution for handle such issues. I would say, the recent japan nuclear plant incident had exposed the weakness and the carelessness of the management. One of the lesson learned is not building it nearby seaside to save cost, regardless it is for short or long term. And there is no mobile water pump unit which quite surprise me for an advance country like japan. I would like to know when this plant had been built and started operation.

Perhaps, I should start drawing my concept and let you guys see (in few days). There is no problem to waste money on over spec engineering but when save money and walk on the engineering limit, anytime will fall down. I like to call these bastard as smart a$$. And yes, I'm the hard core bad guy as usual.

---------- Post added at 03:34 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 03:25 PM ----------

ok, this is from my opinion.

If they still want to go on with Nuclear Power, we need people who have SKILLS !! who are willing to sacrifice their lives in their work.

sorry to say but we lack of people who are not skillful in nuclear. For example a fren of mine studying Nuclear Engineering in UKM, seriously an easy question about nuclear she cannot answer even get the correct calculation.

Well i am a n was a psychics student, so i still remembered the Nuclear Equation n Half Life formula.

Image we have people who cannot handle nuclear.. we may end up like Chernobyl !!!

Chernobyl happens just bcoz of a simple mistake same goes to the Three Miles Island nuclear disaster

how about building one nuclear powerplant.. sure u need more experience.. u can do it with normal resources.. this is not building KLCC but something which is fatal !!

they also cannot use cheap materials for it... to dangerous...

speaking of Nuclear in Japan, the Mihama Nuclear Plant is still giving probs even after it's worst accident in 2004.

Lets say after we manage to build, what happens to the nuclear waste?? xkan nak buang dlm Tong sampah or river (like most factories do)

people who are living near the nuclear reactor area are force to take vaccinations !! this will increase the medical cost..

next if happens a fatal accident.. it is going to cost more than millions of ringgit to repair n protect the people.. yes, u are not talking about a few thousand but millions... this is dangerous.. also people will be effected.

ok here ends my nuclear story..

i prefer Solar energy for Malaysia since we have sun also wind energy which we have strong winds..

i heard one Malaysian documentary, they recommend WAVE energy from the water waves in Sabah n coastal areas in Malaysia...

Sorry, things need to be corrected:

1. Many people lives nearby nuclear plant without the need of vaccination, in Korea and Japan, according to the news. other countries not known.

2. Certain countries does collect waste nuclear sht for recycle them and sell them back.

3. Millions or ringgit is for make danger signs. Actual thing need to calculate by Billion in units.
 

driftkingII

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Sorry, things need to be corrected:

1. Many people lives nearby nuclear plant without the need of vaccination, in Korea and Japan, according to the news. other countries not known.

2. Certain countries does collect waste nuclear sht for recycle them and sell them back.

3. Millions or ringgit is for make danger signs. Actual thing need to calculate by Billion in units.
thanx for the facts n correcting it. I am still learning about it slowly.

regarding on vaccination, my niece told me.. that where she lives (US), people there was force to take vaccinations incase of a power plant disaster.

but clear me if i am wrong, i remembered TVP used to have a little documentary about Nuclear Power everyday (during the TVP glory days).. i learn a lot from there b4 i entered the science stream.
 

jat1917

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As what I expected since the beginning.

1st of all, you need to understand what is risk. To be more down to earth, risk is basically the chance of sht happen. Damage is the sht happen. Due to wrong use of the wording, things can be 180 degree turned and become another story. That had mislead a lot of people.

What type of risk we will need to face when there is a nuclear plant? Example: Nuclear core explode. What will be the damage? Answer: Every life form within certain area will die or suffer from radiation and the radio active effect will last for long time within the radius of effected area which will cause most life form unable to live there.

I believe these 2 things are the only things that most Malaysians knows and the only thing what appear in their mind is: Nuclear plant will definitely explode and we all gonna die. Nothing more that that.

I don't blame the rakyat because they never have a chance to learn about control, management, risk assessment, and etc. Those who born with such instinct or talent, had been washed out by their greedy bosses when they tried to do something good end up with kena blasted because of wasting money and time. Part of the culture. No hope. Here goes why plenty of people don't like china product and Malaysians are basically towards that direction.

Back to the topic.

When you think nuclear plant has a potential for creating a man made disaster, do you also think about what is the high potential and not like gonna happen type of root cause and the possible solution for them? If you don't think and straight away deny of its existence, here goes our future and I should consider to migrate to some other countries which have majority people who know how to think before making their stands clear. I can't blame our parliament YBs are such a bunch of fools because they need to debate like a fools to get the foolish people support. Just like those who talk about human rights in Gaddafi's parliament will eventually being wipe off outside the building by the foolish supporter. My purpose of making this thread is to encourage people to make a step forward to analyze a thing. Not jump off from no where and making a strong stand of banning women for wearing shorts because it will create traffic accident. We are not living in 200 BC BTW.

Debating on the nuclear plant is not as important as the attitude of handling an issue.

But if you would like to know about people who work in a nuclear plant, how nuclear plant works, Nuclear plant safety and etc, please google it and read from different source. As far as I know, those people who handle a very tiny volume of radio active source, they need to fulfill the requirement like professionalism, fixed neutralized schedule (including work hour), frequent medical check up, and many many more. Basically they need to have a test and obtain the license for handle the sht. On the plant building, even a bolt need to be certified. That's why when the tsunami hit japan and damage the nuclear plant cooling supply, the core won't just blow out as fast as the bomb dropped in hiroshima. They still have chance to save it from turning into a big disaster.

On the management and control point of view, if need people to sacrifice their life for saving a building, that's mean it is not good enough (I called it failure). They need to implement some policy and solution for handle such issues. I would say, the recent japan nuclear plant incident had exposed the weakness and the carelessness of the management. One of the lesson learned is not building it nearby seaside to save cost, regardless it is for short or long term. And there is no mobile water pump unit which quite surprise me for an advance country like japan. I would like to know when this plant had been built and started operation.

Perhaps, I should start drawing my concept and let you guys see (in few days). There is no problem to waste money on over spec engineering but when save money and walk on the engineering limit, anytime will fall down. I like to call these bastard as smart a$$. And yes, I'm the hard core bad guy as usual.

---------- Post added at 03:34 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 03:25 PM ----------



as worker working with radoactive everyday,i said yes u must sacrifice ur self if emergency situation occur..u must..radioactive material dun have switch for u to turn on or off..it always emit the radiation..even in it special container,it still have radiation surround the container..like worker at fukushima reactor,in 1 hour they already absorb 400msv per hour..mean in 1 hour they absorb for 8years radiation limit..50msv per year only u can absorb according to international standart..more than that,u are in serious health situation..so,if nuke power plant build in malaysia,the very first victim when the reactor leak or explode,is the worker..they will sacrifice them self for saving another life..how many worker in malaysia will sacrifice them self?i think no one will do it if that thing will make u died faster..nuke power plant using more powerful radioactive material than im using everyday..so the effect is more higher in short time...radioctive material not easy to handle..coz u cannot touch it.. u deal with radioactive,u must absorb the radiation..sory for my bad english.just share..:stupido:
 

artworkz

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As what I expected since the beginning.

1st of all, you need to understand what is risk. To be more down to earth, risk is basically the chance of sht happen. Damage is the sht happen. Due to wrong use of the wording, things can be 180 degree turned and become another story. That had mislead a lot of people.

What type of risk we will need to face when there is a nuclear plant? Example: Nuclear core explode. What will be the damage? Answer: Every life form within certain area will die or suffer from radiation and the radio active effect will last for long time within the radius of effected area which will cause most life form unable to live there.

I believe these 2 things are the only things that most Malaysians knows and the only thing what appear in their mind is: Nuclear plant will definitely explode and we all gonna die. Nothing more that that.

I don't blame the rakyat because they never have a chance to learn about control, management, risk assessment, and etc. Those who born with such instinct or talent, had been washed out by their greedy bosses when they tried to do something good end up with kena blasted because of wasting money and time. Part of the culture. No hope. Here goes why plenty of people don't like china product and Malaysians are basically towards that direction.

Back to the topic.

When you think nuclear plant has a potential for creating a man made disaster, do you also think about what is the high potential and not like gonna happen type of root cause and the possible solution for them? If you don't think and straight away deny of its existence, here goes our future and I should consider to migrate to some other countries which have majority people who know how to think before making their stands clear. I can't blame our parliament YBs are such a bunch of fools because they need to debate like a fools to get the foolish people support. Just like those who talk about human rights in Gaddafi's parliament will eventually being wipe off outside the building by the foolish supporter. My purpose of making this thread is to encourage people to make a step forward to analyze a thing. Not jump off from no where and making a strong stand of banning women for wearing shorts because it will create traffic accident. We are not living in 200 BC BTW.

Debating on the nuclear plant is not as important as the attitude of handling an issue.

But if you would like to know about people who work in a nuclear plant, how nuclear plant works, Nuclear plant safety and etc, please google it and read from different source. As far as I know, those people who handle a very tiny volume of radio active source, they need to fulfill the requirement like professionalism, fixed neutralized schedule (including work hour), frequent medical check up, and many many more. Basically they need to have a test and obtain the license for handle the sht. On the plant building, even a bolt need to be certified. That's why when the tsunami hit japan and damage the nuclear plant cooling supply, the core won't just blow out as fast as the bomb dropped in hiroshima. They still have chance to save it from turning into a big disaster.

On the management and control point of view, if need people to sacrifice their life for saving a building, that's mean it is not good enough (I called it failure). They need to implement some policy and solution for handle such issues. I would say, the recent japan nuclear plant incident had exposed the weakness and the carelessness of the management. One of the lesson learned is not building it nearby seaside to save cost, regardless it is for short or long term. And there is no mobile water pump unit which quite surprise me for an advance country like japan. I would like to know when this plant had been built and started operation.

Perhaps, I should start drawing my concept and let you guys see (in few days). There is no problem to waste money on over spec engineering but when save money and walk on the engineering limit, anytime will fall down. I like to call these bastard as smart a$$. And yes, I'm the hard core bad guy as usual.

---------- Post added at 03:34 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 03:25 PM ----------




Sorry, things need to be corrected:

1. Many people lives nearby nuclear plant without the need of vaccination, in Korea and Japan, according to the news. other countries not known.

2. Certain countries does collect waste nuclear sht for recycle them and sell them back.

3. Millions or ringgit is for make danger signs. Actual thing need to calculate by Billion in units.
bro csl, if the nuclear plant was built nearby ur homeland i doubt u will be the 1st disagree.

---------- Post added at 03:10 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 03:08 PM ----------

As what I expected since the beginning.

1st of all, you need to understand what is risk. To be more down to earth, risk is basically the chance of sht happen. Damage is the sht happen. Due to wrong use of the wording, things can be 180 degree turned and become another story. That had mislead a lot of people.

What type of risk we will need to face when there is a nuclear plant? Example: Nuclear core explode. What will be the damage? Answer: Every life form within certain area will die or suffer from radiation and the radio active effect will last for long time within the radius of effected area which will cause most life form unable to live there.

I believe these 2 things are the only things that most Malaysians knows and the only thing what appear in their mind is: Nuclear plant will definitely explode and we all gonna die. Nothing more that that.

I don't blame the rakyat because they never have a chance to learn about control, management, risk assessment, and etc. Those who born with such instinct or talent, had been washed out by their greedy bosses when they tried to do something good end up with kena blasted because of wasting money and time. Part of the culture. No hope. Here goes why plenty of people don't like china product and Malaysians are basically towards that direction.

Back to the topic.

When you think nuclear plant has a potential for creating a man made disaster, do you also think about what is the high potential and not like gonna happen type of root cause and the possible solution for them? If you don't think and straight away deny of its existence, here goes our future and I should consider to migrate to some other countries which have majority people who know how to think before making their stands clear. I can't blame our parliament YBs are such a bunch of fools because they need to debate like a fools to get the foolish people support. Just like those who talk about human rights in Gaddafi's parliament will eventually being wipe off outside the building by the foolish supporter. My purpose of making this thread is to encourage people to make a step forward to analyze a thing. Not jump off from no where and making a strong stand of banning women for wearing shorts because it will create traffic accident. We are not living in 200 BC BTW.

Debating on the nuclear plant is not as important as the attitude of handling an issue.

But if you would like to know about people who work in a nuclear plant, how nuclear plant works, Nuclear plant safety and etc, please google it and read from different source. As far as I know, those people who handle a very tiny volume of radio active source, they need to fulfill the requirement like professionalism, fixed neutralized schedule (including work hour), frequent medical check up, and many many more. Basically they need to have a test and obtain the license for handle the sht. On the plant building, even a bolt need to be certified. That's why when the tsunami hit japan and damage the nuclear plant cooling supply, the core won't just blow out as fast as the bomb dropped in hiroshima. They still have chance to save it from turning into a big disaster.

On the management and control point of view, if need people to sacrifice their life for saving a building, that's mean it is not good enough (I called it failure). They need to implement some policy and solution for handle such issues. I would say, the recent japan nuclear plant incident had exposed the weakness and the carelessness of the management. One of the lesson learned is not building it nearby seaside to save cost, regardless it is for short or long term. And there is no mobile water pump unit which quite surprise me for an advance country like japan. I would like to know when this plant had been built and started operation.

Perhaps, I should start drawing my concept and let you guys see (in few days). There is no problem to waste money on over spec engineering but when save money and walk on the engineering limit, anytime will fall down. I like to call these bastard as smart a$$. And yes, I'm the hard core bad guy as usual.

---------- Post added at 03:34 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 03:25 PM ----------



as worker working with radoactive everyday,i said yes u must sacrifice ur self if emergency situation occur..u must..radioactive material dun have switch for u to turn on or off..it always emit the radiation..even in it special container,it still have radiation surround the container..like worker at fukushima reactor,in 1 hour they already absorb 400msv per hour..mean in 1 hour they absorb for 8years radiation limit..50msv per year only u can absorb according to international standart..more than that,u are in serious health situation..so,if nuke power plant build in malaysia,the very first victim when the reactor leak or explode,is the worker..they will sacrifice them self for saving another life..how many worker in malaysia will sacrifice them self?i think no one will do it if that thing will make u died faster..nuke power plant using more powerful radioactive material than im using everyday..so the effect is more higher in short time...radioctive material not easy to handle..coz u cannot touch it.. u deal with radioactive,u must absorb the radiation..sory for my bad english.just share..:stupido:
well say!!!
 

BE5RSK

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I am not totally opposed the nuclear power plant in Malaysia. For me, it is one of the cheaper alternative for energy supply or crisis (if you want to call it)...

I just doubt that "we" are ready to handle it. That's all. "We" here means our Government, our NGO, our public sector and our private sector.

Of course if we follows all the regulations, and standard handling procedures set by IAEA, nuclear is consider safe (provided there is no nature disaster).

But, are "we" capable to built it? Are "we" capable to handle it? In my honest opinion, NO, we are still not ready for it.

Why? Because buat highways pun tak pandai, cracked here and there (e.g MRR2, LPT).
Repairs building pun tak betul, atap/ceiling runtuh sana-sini (e.g. Stadium Terengganu and Government Offices in Putrajaya).

Is not that I am argue/doubt on our people skills, but the reality is, there are too many "loopholes" and "interference" in the process, from planning, awarding project contracts, build the project, and maintaining the project.

Well maybe I am sceptical Malaysian citizen, but this is what I think. Please pardon my noob thought.
 

mizunori77

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1) On the management and control point of view, if need people to sacrifice their life for saving a building, that's mean it is not good enough (I called it failure).

2) They need to implement some policy and solution for handle such issues. I would say, the recent japan nuclear plant incident had exposed the weakness and the carelessness of the management.

3) One of the lesson learned is not building it nearby seaside to save cost, regardless it is for short or long term.

4) And there is no mobile water pump unit which quite surprise me for an advance country like japan.

5) I would like to know when this plant had been built and started operation.
1) Can you show us a building that can withstand a 9.0 magnitude earthquake PLUS a 10m tsunami before calling the Japanese failures?

2) I'm pretty sure safety and emergency policies are in place. To assume that the Japanese, who is one of the most meticulous people in the world skipping safety procedures or having outdated procedures would be idiotic.

If you had bothered to google, you would have learned that there were 3 other incidents at Fukushima I before the 2011 earthquake and tsunami and they handled it well.

3) Once again, if you had bothered to google, the Fukushima plant is by the seaside. It even has a tsunami wall designed to handle tidal waves up to 5.7m.

4) Do you seriously think that Japan has no mobile water pump unit? In case you forgot, the roads are impassable because of damage and debris from the tsunami. Unless you expect Japan to have a FLYING mobile water pump that can hover midair for days or weeks? :hmmmm:

5) You should get to know Mr Google better. The plant was commissioned in 1971 and the nuclear plant was built to withstand a 7.5 magnitude earthquake and a 5.7m tsunami.
 

csl

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1) Can you show us a building that can withstand a 9.0 magnitude earthquake PLUS a 10m tsunami before calling the Japanese failures?

2) I'm pretty sure safety and emergency policies are in place. To assume that the Japanese, who is one of the most meticulous people in the world skipping safety procedures or having outdated procedures would be idiotic.

If you had bothered to google, you would have learned that there were 3 other incidents at Fukushima I before the 2011 earthquake and tsunami and they handled it well.

3) Once again, if you had bothered to google, the Fukushima plant is by the seaside. It even has a tsunami wall designed to handle tidal waves up to 5.7m.

4) Do you seriously think that Japan has no mobile water pump unit? In case you forgot, the roads are impassable because of damage and debris from the tsunami. Unless you expect Japan to have a FLYING mobile water pump that can hover midair for days or weeks? :hmmmm:

5) You should get to know Mr Google better. The plant was commissioned in 1971 and the nuclear plant was built to withstand a 7.5 magnitude earthquake and a 5.7m tsunami.


Due to I need to do some work, let me quick reply you few things.

1. Please wait, I'll show my drawing in few more days. I'm not a kok talker that only know hot to talk without facts, without sense and without think.

2. According to the newspaper, the nuclear plant supposingly will not be as bad. But because of their 'tnb' kiamsiapness and refuse to let the sea water come in at the earlier stage, so they have to face what suppose to be able to avoid.

3. To be a little bit on common sense, why you need a mobile water pump? It must be emergency then need to use. When in emergency, you need efficiency. When talk about efficiency, you need strategy. When talk about strategy, you must have at least mobility and etc for encounter unpredictable situation. So do you think I expect a mobile pump unit to use AD08 235/40/18 tires ar? Or a mobile pump unit must be on top of some wheels / must be not able to fly then land on somewhere?

After 2 days, please read back what you wrote and think again. I believe you must be like those japanese, come up so fast and be so successful, the proud from the pride already covered everything and cannot see most small tiny things, until when sht happen then realize and regret. This thing called over confidence. I'm not sure about what what what wall. But if they really have a protective wall, what does it means? And while the wall is at the front, why the pump is not at the back, as the last thing to be washed out by the sea water? Remember, I'm not as advance as most japanese, to be more accurate, I study only till form 5. Can you tell me how things happen and why things failed? Of cause, you cannot tell me japan don't have the technology and money to build a mighty reservoir on a higher ground that enough to cool down the entire plant's reactors for at least a month.


For some earlier replies, I don't mine if they build a plant 5km away from my house. In this world, there is a thing called radioactive detector sell at few hundred ringgit (must buy those at least can scan alpha beta gamma). And in this world, there is a thing called lawyer. Why I say 5km? because I afraid osama drive a plane and attempt to hit the plant but shoot down by the military and drop on top of my roof. And of cause, the gov will not build nearby any city or living area. Only the developers in the future got no place to build house then slowly build living place nearby the plant.


PERSONAL RADIATION DETECTOR K 8 MADE IN USA - eBay (item 190515966087 end time Apr-23-11 09:41:11 PDT)

Geiger Counter RADIATION DETECTOR Terra-P iOSAT Iodide - eBay (item 220759070386 end time Mar-26-11 03:58:03 PDT)
 

mizunori77

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Due to I need to do some work, let me quick reply you few things.

1. Please wait, I'll show my drawing in few more days. I'm not a kok talker that only know hot to talk without facts, without sense and without think.

will gladly wait for your drawing.

2. According to the newspaper, the nuclear plant supposingly will not be as bad. But because of their 'tnb' kiamsiapness and refuse to let the sea water come in at the earlier stage, so they have to face what suppose to be able to avoid.

what do you mean by "let the sea water in at the earlier stage"?
you want their backup cooling systems to fail even faster? right now, their backups failed because it was damaged by the sea water.

3. To be a little bit on common sense, why you need a mobile water pump? It must be emergency then need to use. When in emergency, you need efficiency. When talk about efficiency, you need strategy. When talk about strategy, you must have at least mobility and etc for encounter unpredictable situation. So do you think I expect a mobile pump unit to use AD08 235/40/18 tires ar? Or a mobile pump unit must be on top of some wheels / must be not able to fly then land on somewhere?

maybe you got confused with my previous reply. i am saying that the Japs have a mobile water pump, just that it took the mobile water pump longer to arrive because it has to navigate through the debris and the damaged roads to get to the nuclear plant.

the one that you see on tv and on the internet news where it is pumping in sea water and spraying the reactor PROVES that they do have a water pump.


After 2 days, please read back what you wrote and think again. I believe you must be like those japanese, come up so fast and be so successful, the proud from the pride already covered everything and cannot see most small tiny things, until when sht happen then realize and regret. This thing called over confidence.

i responded to you with facts to counter your assumptions and you say i am prideful and overconfident?

you have a weird definition of being prideful.
:hmmmm:

I'm not sure about what what what wall. But if they really have a protective wall, what does it means? And while the wall is at the front, why the pump is not at the back, as the last thing to be washed out by the sea water?

the tsunami sweep up to 10km into land in some areas. it doesn't matter if the pump is in the front or the back.

are you going to say that the Japs should have put the backup cooling system further inland, more than 10km away because they are stupid, prideful and overconfident?


Remember, I'm not as advance as most japanese, to be more accurate, I study only till form 5. Can you tell me how things happen and why things failed?

no one is talking about your education background. you are the one who brought it up.

THE FACT IS, what is different between you and me is NOT because of our education background. It has to do with how curious we are.

I TOOK 5 MINUTES TO GOOGLE FOR INFORMATION while you just chose to make wild assumptions on everything and then you assume further that people who disagree with your views are narrow-minded about the benefits of having a nuclear plant in Malaysia.

We both are debating about this topic and we have opposing views. I took the trouble to use the internet and search for information while you, in your latest reply, called me prideful and arrogant for debating with facts.

You are the one who are disrespecting yourself when you say such things. Please don't hide behind your "I only studied until Form 5" statement as an excuse for your own laziness to search for information.

Seriously, it is very pathetic and people won't sympathize with you.


Of cause, you cannot tell me japan don't have the technology and money to build a mighty reservoir on a higher ground that enough to cool down the entire plant's reactors for at least a month.

Yes, they do have that technology but my question to you is, what is the cost effectiveness of building a reservoir on higher ground that is too far away?

The nuclear plant is located in Ookuma, just right beside the pacific ocean on the east and according to the topography, is one of the flattest areas in the Fukushima prefecture.

Your higher ground reservoir may not even work, unless you build it far away from the plant. then there is the question of how to lay the water supply pipes.

if you wanna have the pipes running above ground to avoid the ground shifting during earthquakes and breaking the pipes, you will still need very strong pillar structures that can withstand a 9.0 magnitude earthquake, or the Japs would have been labeled as failures in your standards right?


For some earlier replies, I don't mine if they build a plant 5km away from my house. In this world, there is a thing called radioactive detector sell at few hundred ringgit (must buy those at least can scan alpha beta gamma).

WHY would I want to buy a radioactive detector when the govt is using my tax money to build something that I DONT WANT?

Like the other 28 million Malaysians, i have a voice. Why should anyone of us be forced to accept any major decisions that could affect our lives and the lives of our children and grandchildren?

It is not about the few hundred ringgit spent to buy a detector, and the detector cannot protect us from radiation poisoning. By the time your detector picks up higher than normal radiation readings, we are already exposed.

the detector is not a crystal ball to look into the future, it merely tells you what you are already in deep shit as you are exposed.


And in this world, there is a thing called lawyer. Why I say 5km? because I afraid osama drive a plane and attempt to hit the plant but shoot down by the military and drop on top of my roof. And of cause, the gov will not build nearby any city or living area. Only the developers in the future got no place to build house then slowly build living place nearby the plant.

So what if you win a lawsuit and the govt pays you, lets say, RM1 billion. Do you think your RM1b can save you from your radiation poisoning? you think you can wipe away the radiation in your body with the ringgit notes?
:hmmmm:
my answer is in BLUE
 

FVel

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It's amazing to read some of the ridiculous oversimplifications in this thread.

There's a big difference from actually wholeheartedly doing research to be more informed versus actually be in a position to render a really educated opinion over a very complicated issue.

The social, engineering and political aspects with the exploitation of nuclear power is not as simple as some of you armchair simpletons think it is. You can google all you damn like, but unless you have been on the ground actually coming face to face with issues involving radioactivity, an average layman cannot even begin to appreciate the complexity of the issues.

I see that none of you even bothered to address the ARE case of Perak. ARE is a relevant precedent on the possible ramifications (social, political and technical) of radioactive material explotiation within a local setting, and yet, despite its pertinence, ppl here completely omit a discussion of it.

Maybe it's because most of you don't have a clue of what actually went on, save from what little tidbits you read from the general press and freaking 'Google'.

Well, I have actively participated in the ARE case on various capacities. I'm also involved in an industry that comes under the jurisdiction of the Atomic Energy Licensing Board. At various times, we have dealt in material classified as 'radioactive' and that includes, storage, handling, transportation, disposal.

Maybe it's time I start to weigh in with my opinions. The issues are not as straighforward as some of you think and I think a lot of ppl here talk too much and talk way over their heads.
 
Last edited:

Izso

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FVEL : Are you a pro-nuke or anti-nuke station then?

My personal thoughts on the matter : I don't care to have a nuclear station in a country where they can't even build highways properly and not to mention have completed buildings collapse on their own (read : more than 1). Then the slack attitude most people in authority have and blatant corruption will not help either. Forget about the science of the thing, the country's social problems will be the downfall of this reactor.

I can see it now "Aiya.. that alarm is normal la.. happens everyday. It will stop by itself one. Jom, teh tarik!"

And on the note about oil depletion and all that - the worlds largest O&G company Exxon now is investing shitloads of money into technologies for better ways of drilling, oil refining, waste reduction, gas refining, etc. What does that mean? For every 1 barrel of oil dug out, last time used to create X amount of energy. Now it's X times 10. Efficiency in doing whatever it is they are doing. If we can improve our own efficiencies then we wouldn't need as much energy in the first place! Internal stats show that it's only those growing economies require enormous amounts of energy, stabilized economies or developed ones show a very little increase in energy requirements. Again, what does this mean? It means these developing nations need to learn to maximise their usage instead of asking for more everytime they need it. So the concept of 'recycle', 'energy-saver' and all those technologies that ride on these concepts should be explored in-depth and enforced.

Hell, a simple example would be a humble petrol station automated carwash in the USA. Most if not all Exxon car washes recycle their water and have very little wastage compared to the Ah-neh carwashes in KL.
 

FVel

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FVEL : Are you a pro-nuke or anti-nuke station then?
It really depends in what context you are asking me that question.

If you are asking me whether we ought to have it in Malaysia (as opposed to, say, the USA), my personal opinion is a flat out "No".

Irrespective, nuclear power is a hardsell wherever you want to promote it.

I have my reasons but it will take more than one or two paragraphs for me to reasonably explain. And it will also be explained within a relevant context of having it in Malaysia. Chernobyl is never a good benchmark for comparison, btw...for a lot of reasons.

I'm packed out at work this moment, and frankly this forum ranks low priority. But I'll explain myself .....if not sooner, then later.

Honestly, some of the mickey mouse rubbish said in this thread are so wrong on so many levels, I don't even lnow where to begin LOL

Incidentally, portable radiation detectors like Geiger Counters don't do diddly squat other than detecting radiation. They don't address wider issues such as waste management, infrastructure and technical costs (a big, big recurring issue), topography (eg., lay of land and groundwater etc), communal concerns. You don't buy a Geiger counter and then think you are impervious to any ramifications even if they plonk a nuke reactor 5km away from your real estate, despite some people here being so adamant about it :)

And I'm actually very curious how ppl here think 5 km is a reasonable distance ? What was the criteria ? Google said so ? LOL
 

mizunori77

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Honestly, some of the mickey mouse rubbish said in this thread are so wrong on so many levels, I don't even lnow where to begin LOL
we wouldn't mind if you were to start from the beginning as we are all clueless about nuclear energy, its usage and ramifications.

hope to hear from you soon, although its not your priority at the moment :bawling:
 
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