4AF + Blacktop internal part = work?

[normality78]

im no sifu leh... as u said lor, its abt 2% gain only due to higher comp only. But he is looking for significant power gain so he is going to get dissapointed lo

 

[keremerdag]

Hi Guys,

Firstly I'm very newbee for toyota engines. I've been doing mods on BMW engines for lots of times, so I'm used to what is happening.

Now the problem is, I had a very stock AE92 corolla (I'm in love with it) with 4af (carb one) engine which has broken the timing belt couple of weeks ago. Honestly, I couldn't dare opening up the engine till now. I don' think I will face a good picture.

If the picture is as i described then I'think it's time to do something on this bulletproof engine.

the best solution I found is converting it to 4age. why converting? it's because, in Turkey it's not legal to swap the engine block.

long story short, my question is; is it possible to convert 4af to 4age? I mean bolting all parts on to the 4af block + plus wiring harnes + ecu + fuel pump.....


sot that car will be economic, fast daily.....

thanks in advance for your feedbacks
Kerem

 

[TRD.AE92]

Hi Guys,

Firstly I'm very newbee for toyota engines. I've been doing mods on BMW engines for lots of times, so I'm used to what is happening.

Now the problem is, I had a very stock AE92 corolla (I'm in love with it) with 4af (carb one) engine which has broken the timing belt couple of weeks ago. Honestly, I couldn't dare opening up the engine till now. I don' think I will face a good picture.

If the picture is as i described then I'think it's time to do something on this bulletproof engine.

the best solution I found is converting it to 4age. why converting? it's because, in Turkey it's not legal to swap the engine block.

long story short, my question is; is it possible to convert 4af to 4age? I mean bolting all parts on to the 4af block + plus wiring harnes + ecu + fuel pump.....


sot that car will be economic, fast daily.....

thanks in advance for your feedbacks
Kerem

Hi Kerem :wavey:,
I think you better brought a full set engine + wiring + ecu to help you easy to transplant later.
Anyway, let's get it short:
4AF (Block) + 4AG/GZE head (16/20 V) + 4AG/GZE internal part (Piston, rod, crankshaft) + 4AG/GZE wiring + ECU = confirmed 100% work...

But make you sure you know which engine you want to go for it. Then you will face no problem in converting this such toy.

 

[keremerdag]

wow ! this is great news.

I'll do so; buy a full set engine and transplant everything to 4af block.

I'll check for silvertop or blacktop then.

I'll also ask for some documantation as well :)


thanks again,
Kerem

 

[scottwrx]

better go for blacktop, coz you will save more in the long term in terms of upgrading, and you can play trumpet.. aka velocity stacks

 

[lexuskoh]

sometimes we need to respect toyota 20V BT / ST engineer.....

 

[bernard74]

The piston head not much different, you can PNP it...
Piston pin for 4AFE is 18mm which is same with blue top 16V too...

higher hp? Yes... because compression ratio are slightly increase.

here are the picture of both piston:
Left are 4AFE and right are 4AGE (blue top)

---------- Post added at 12:15 AM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 12:05 AM ----------

Hi TRD, here's the pic of my 4afe piston, the ones u shown here both belongs to 4age, I think. Pls notice the dented piston head.

Engine does 'roar' louder now, it accelerates faster too, can feel the heavier & faster pull, especially at 1800-2000rpm. I seriously think the meager 2% increase is underrated:proud:. Too bad there aren't any dyno machines around here. CHEERS...HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ALL

 

[TRD.AE92]

Hi TRD, here's the pic of my 4afe piston, the ones u shown here both belongs to 4age, I think. Pls notice the dented piston head.

Engine does 'roar' louder now, it accelerates faster too, can feel the heavier & faster pull, especially at 1800-2000rpm. I seriously think the meager 2% increase is underrated:proud:. Too bad there aren't any dyno machines around here. CHEERS...HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ALL

Ermm... maybe I get the big mistake... :hmmmm:
Anyway, you done it already? So fast?? I just finish and only want to test, the BT buttom + 4AF head only... Tomorrow will try to setting the fuel...

Anyway I said 2 % increase is in the term of compression ratio increase roughly about 2 %. So it won't achieve too much increase of performance too, unless you using the 16V non-tvis piston.... with using Non-TVIS 16v piston I believe you will achieve more than that...

Beside the term you said is what I'm planing to achieve too... That why I said the 4AFE if done properly... it should not lose too far with any 4AGE 16V or even got chance to win back the honor too...

 

[normality78]

TRD bro, do remmeber post after your "project" done...

 

[TRD.AE92]

TRD bro, do remmeber post after your "project" done...

The project was done... But unlucky I not install the webber, but sell it out later cause got buyer.
Anyway, I just use back my carburetor, and everything also working well too. Even the Wideband AFR also showed reading 12-14, but for sure need to do some tuning at carb there lo...

Research result:
1. 0 to 100 kmj-1 was record at 9.8 sec, before doing was at 13.2 sec
2. respond from 2000 to 5500 rpm was good
3. Test 300m with 16V blue top, win 2/3 car.
4. Test 300m with 16v red top, win 1/3 car
5. Test 300m with 20V BT, win 2 car due to that car miss gearing (clutch cover fault)
5. FC was increase from RM 0.13-0.15 per km to RM 0.15-0.18, but maybe was because of heavy foot
6. 60 kmj-1 to 120 kmj-1 was used about 8 sec
7. Idling very smooth
8. The BT piston head need some modification only.

Note: there are some hiding part which might help to get that result too.


By the way, sorry for late report the result too... The picture of process was mistakenly delete as hand phone software corrupted. Beside this and Soon I need to going back to Australia already, maybe this 25 - 28 January will be going already. :wavey::wavey::wavey:
The on going project might hanging up a short while again...

 

[normality78]

great... by getting this result 0 to 100 kmj-1 was record at 9.8 sec, before doing was at 13.2 sec, is justify enough for the effort spent. Damn if u got the webber work on else u might be the most powerfull 4afe carb in msia. whahahahaha

 

[TRD.AE92]

great... by getting this result 0 to 100 kmj-1 was record at 9.8 sec, before doing was at 13.2 sec, is justify enough for the effort spent. Damn if u got the webber work on else u might be the most powerfull 4afe carb in msia. whahahahaha

Thanks for support me from day 1st till now.. Anyway I'm not creating a powerful car, but only a street car.

Anyway... 9.8 sec is the best time. I do test for 5 time and the result was:
1. 10.8 sec
2. 10.3 sec
3. 11.2 sec
4. 9.8 sec (using semi slick tire & light weight rim)
5. 10.4 sec

 

[bernard74]

Guys, what else can I change to increase the hp? Any advise? The bluetop pistons only increases the acceleration, the end torque remains more or less the same...is bolt on turbo advisable? thanks

 

[TRD.AE92]

Guys, what else can I change to increase the hp? Any advise? The bluetop pistons only increases the acceleration, the end torque remains more or less the same...is bolt on turbo advisable? thanks

turbo the 4AFE? good ideal too, but the cost... you calculate already?

 

[normality78]

Well if you're building ur own kit, can be ex... but if u buy those ex-kit, etc, those plp de-mod and wanna sell, can be very cheap. For instance, im having 2set 4afe/7afe turbo kit. whahahaha, im selling one kit for as low as rm3k, complete kit

 

[bernard74]

Got my 4age gearbox oredi. Try it on coming weekend. U guys think it'll improve anything?? Im not familiar with the ratios thingy. Basic turbo kit, I was thinking of scavenging at chop shops...charger w/built in wastegate RM300, radiator RM250, custom manifold RM?, custom piping RM250, BOV RM100, keeping stock injectors & fuel pump. this setup can boost til .6 bar??? :help: Should I standby spare engine?? Im a noob at turbos, only study theoretically, very curious. Pls teach me something, I'll be grateful.

 

[normality78]

u miss out alot of thing.

1. Turbo depends on what u using. normal td04 frm gsr will cost u around rm350. Also td04 was 10 yrs old turbo, so u wont know how long it last

2. turbo manifold, depends on design and material. cheapest for normal log desgin with normal steel also need around rm600

3.turbo downpipe. Same as manifold, depends on material. normally for 2.5" s/steel downpipe easily cost you rm450 onwards.

4. IC piping, no way u can get rm200. U must factor in how long is the piping, how many curve joint section, how many 2" section and 2.5" section. For s/steel IC piping, normal market rate is from rm1k onwards. This yet to include silicon interconnet hose and clip. So preprare another rm500 onwards as how many joint hose need is depends on how many joint section u have

5. Intercooler, rm350 onwards

6. BOV, i seriously dont think there is rm100 type. Better forecast more then be sorry. RM200 is more realistic

7. Thn u need to get oil supply line to the turbo. Steel braided line cost u around rm150 onwards.

8. Injector = RM250, again, depends on injector size. For "FE", our stock injector using high impedance, top feed. So better find back the same high impedance injector. Low impendance also can use if u put in resistor pack on the injector.

9. Fuel pump = Rm200 onwards, for supra or mr2 fuel pump

10. map sensor = i bought haltech 4bar map sensor at rm400

11. piggyback, used emanage around rm750 with ignition timing control. labour install + tune another rm500

10. Exhuast, another rm500

all these yet to factor in labour install fees plus engine oil la, spark plug la, drill oil pan for turbo return oil la, drill bigger valve hole for release valve cover pressure la, all those small thing. so prepare another rm1500.

hm... wat else did i miss?

---------- Post added at 03:43 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 03:41 PM ----------

NO WAY stock injector and fuel pump can. U will run lean.

 

[TRD.AE92]

u miss out alot of thing.

1. Turbo depends on what u using. normal td04 frm gsr will cost u around rm350. Also td04 was 10 yrs old turbo, so u wont know how long it last

2. turbo manifold, depends on design and material. cheapest for normal log desgin with normal steel also need around rm600

3.turbo downpipe. Same as manifold, depends on material. normally for 2.5" s/steel downpipe easily cost you rm450 onwards.

4. IC piping, no way u can get rm200. U must factor in how long is the piping, how many curve joint section, how many 2" section and 2.5" section. For s/steel IC piping, normal market rate is from rm1k onwards. This yet to include silicon interconnet hose and clip. So preprare another rm500 onwards as how many joint hose need is depends on how many joint section u have

5. Intercooler, rm350 onwards

6. BOV, i seriously dont think there is rm100 type. Better forecast more then be sorry. RM200 is more realistic

7. Thn u need to get oil supply line to the turbo. Steel braided line cost u around rm150 onwards.

8. Injector = RM250, again, depends on injector size. For "FE", our stock injector using high impedance, top feed. So better find back the same high impedance injector. Low impendance also can use if u put in resistor pack on the injector.

9. Fuel pump = Rm200 onwards, for supra or mr2 fuel pump

10. map sensor = i bought haltech 4bar map sensor at rm400

11. piggyback, used emanage around rm750 with ignition timing control. labour install + tune another rm500

10. Exhuast, another rm500

all these yet to factor in labour install fees plus engine oil la, spark plug la, drill oil pan for turbo return oil la, drill bigger valve hole for release valve cover pressure la, all those small thing. so prepare another rm1500.

hm... wat else did i miss?

---------- Post added at 03:43 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 03:41 PM ----------

NO WAY stock injector and fuel pump can. U will run lean.

You are right bro,
I believe he think turbo the 4AFE is cheap stuff and easy toy to play around.

bernard74,
If you want to play turbo, I think you better brought a 3SGTE halfcut. Or if you think it is too much, perhaps you may choose the 4EFTE. If still want 1.6, you may better choose the 4AGZE... It more save cost than u customize yourself.

 

[bernard74]

Wow...that's a lot of info to digest...good thing I haven't go & waste my money trying bit by bit. Thanks guys. Maybe I'll just transplant a gze and turbo it instead of going thru all those trouble. By the way, do u guys think I should go ahead & change the original 4afe gearbox to 4age ST gearbox?..since I've bought the gearbox...

---------- Post added at 09:28 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 08:58 PM ----------

How do u guys learn so much on these performance parts? Is there a 'school' where I can learn all the skills?:stupido: I never get the chance to experience it since ppl here just do transplant...not good at troubleshooting. Guess im more on the curious side. Only lately, since I've read forums that most 4a parts are interchangeable, that I change those original pistons to bluetop. First 'experiment' done, now comes the gearbox...I wonder what's next??

 

[normality78]

no la... what im trying to say is to build a TC kit from scratch is not cheap. Buying used is cheaper. But then, its different "taste" of everyone.

3S is power no doubt but need to rojak alot of thing to be in order to drop in seg, gb, driveshaft, and so on. not to mentioned mod mounting is required which is something i dun really like. If u analyse deeper, the more thing u rojak, the more headache u got. If 1 day, u dun like this mech and decided to go for other workshop, or ur car brokedown somewhere far frm ur workshop, i doubt u can simply drop into 1 workshop and the mech knowing wat rojak parts you're having.

As for 4AGZE, best bang for the bucks. Halfcut cheap, around rm4500 region. But driveshaft is hard to find not to mentioned its very ex to source. Moreover its almost cant be upgrade in the sense tat you can only change to smaller pulley to up boost. Even that, thr is a limit. stock gze boost .5bar if im not wrong and max u can go is .7bar. Anything more than that, you're cooking the compressor changer. Alternatively u can change to SC14 which is frm Estima but hard to source and its not plug and play. Despite all these, 1 thing i cant bear with GZE is the FC. Damn it drinks fuel like no tmr. I've borrow my ex mech GZE seg for 1 months, i surrender. So what normally plp do with gze? turbocharge it. Again, u will need to spend all those i listed before, turbo, manifold, and so on. The only thing u save is injector, fuel pump and map sensor. The rest of item, u will still need it.

So u sump it, GZE halfcut rm5k, install labour + tear wear cost + RM1.5k. Total 6.5K then u add turbokit on it, another 5k, so total u spend? whopping 11K