SIC Track Day
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Hi Bart,
Appreciate you keeping in touch with us all and updating us regarding the price hike. Just would like to share my experience in sunday open track days.
1. Red flag is unavoidable. Its the main reason why we go to track. To experience how hard our ride can take and learning mistakes. I wouldnt be expecting 0 red flags, and so far the days that I attend, the red flags are fine. No car is going to run 100% for the entire open track duration. My uptime in track probably last only 1 hr duration before I need to refuel or tires/brakes give up.
2. Majority of the red flags that I encounter is caused by track cars spinning off as they are pushing too hard. Now open track days are meant for public, I'm not dissing the use of track cars but they do drive differently vs. road cars. Thus the reason they are more aggressive often causing red flags
3. May I suggest that SCMC have their event/training on Saturdays and leave Sundays for open track and at their usual price? This leaves an option for those who want to be trained by a professional to join SCMC track days on Saturdays and Sundays can be for those casual trackkies. This will help in splitting the over-crowdedness of all attending into 1 track day.
True. It's not hard to go fast. The problem is knowing how to do it safely. I don't want to pretend as pro by giving opinion on this coz I know I'm suck myself but the idea is improvement, and this is where the Pro should come in. Proper training by right person.
Now we go somewhere. Ideas such as this that we want to hear. After all, it's all for your own benefit.
Point noted.
Now we go somewhere. Ideas such as this that we want to hear. After all, it's all for your own benefit.
Point noted.
First thing first...what are the projected fees in joining SCMC and what are monetary benefits that's giving back to us in terms of price hike. Is it annually renewing membership or monthly or even lifetime?
I know previously SCMC members paid lesser back in the public track days when the track fees were RM150. But i'm not sure how less as i wasn't SCMC member at that time or how much needs to be paid to be a member. Well i would proposed a RM500 (this is the price that i'm willing to pay) annual fees and for public track days members will only need to pay rm250 + additional benefits i.e. instructor lessons and locker room access or throw in SCMC members only 2-3 track days at rm200 per entry at maybe a saturday or weekdays if possible?
Kindly do not make an issue of red flags as the main reason for price hike, some rich people that does not have track experience still can pay RM300 and go in and wreak havoc for other paying participants. If that's the case, would SIC guarantees a x% of refund since they're saying that red flags are one of the main cause for the price hike. I would say that 80% of the red flags occur (as far as i've experienced, more experienced public track day kaki do correct me if i'm wrong) is due to machine failures for whatever reason that is.
For the sake of argument, i would say that lowering the fees to RM150 and make available more track days would even lower the red flag occurences as more people can gather more experience and the number of participants will be skimmed as there's more track days. Theorectically, People will then tend to plan with their friends and participate together which would then promote a safer environment as they're friends and they understand each other better and have better tolerance for friendly wheel to wheel matches.
Pardon me, but for me most important is the budget to be able to do something that i enjoy and i felt it is worthwhile.
Just my 2 cents worth :P
I know previously SCMC members paid lesser back in the public track days when the track fees were RM150. But i'm not sure how less as i wasn't SCMC member at that time or how much needs to be paid to be a member. Well i would proposed a RM500 (this is the price that i'm willing to pay) annual fees and for public track days members will only need to pay rm250 + additional benefits i.e. instructor lessons and locker room access or throw in SCMC members only 2-3 track days at rm200 per entry at maybe a saturday or weekdays if possible?
Kindly do not make an issue of red flags as the main reason for price hike, some rich people that does not have track experience still can pay RM300 and go in and wreak havoc for other paying participants. If that's the case, would SIC guarantees a x% of refund since they're saying that red flags are one of the main cause for the price hike. I would say that 80% of the red flags occur (as far as i've experienced, more experienced public track day kaki do correct me if i'm wrong) is due to machine failures for whatever reason that is.
For the sake of argument, i would say that lowering the fees to RM150 and make available more track days would even lower the red flag occurences as more people can gather more experience and the number of participants will be skimmed as there's more track days. Theorectically, People will then tend to plan with their friends and participate together which would then promote a safer environment as they're friends and they understand each other better and have better tolerance for friendly wheel to wheel matches.
Pardon me, but for me most important is the budget to be able to do something that i enjoy and i felt it is worthwhile.
Just my 2 cents worth :P
h3id3rn
Price hike is totally different issue and official statement will come soon from SIC. To answer the question on price hike, let us wait for this statement.
SCMC on the hand, is SIC's effort to maximise TD experience. One of the area that we think within our reach is skill enhancing where one of the possible outcome in the end, may reduce red flags if one knows what is he doing. That is one example. It can be many, I even ask if you all have any idea because at the end of the day, it's your experience.
Nowhere I'm saying red flag caused price hike as I stated earlier. On price hike issue, many times I've mentioned, I'm not in the position to explain. Let us wait the official statement.
I will discuss only on subject that I've somehow involve in. SCMC is one of it. Price hike, not.
We take note your feedback on SCMC. Appreciate it.
Price hike is totally different issue and official statement will come soon from SIC. To answer the question on price hike, let us wait for this statement.
SCMC on the hand, is SIC's effort to maximise TD experience. One of the area that we think within our reach is skill enhancing where one of the possible outcome in the end, may reduce red flags if one knows what is he doing. That is one example. It can be many, I even ask if you all have any idea because at the end of the day, it's your experience.
Nowhere I'm saying red flag caused price hike as I stated earlier. On price hike issue, many times I've mentioned, I'm not in the position to explain. Let us wait the official statement.
I will discuss only on subject that I've somehow involve in. SCMC is one of it. Price hike, not.
We take note your feedback on SCMC. Appreciate it.
Bart,
Understood, it's just that i was under the impression that SCMC is a value adding efforts made by SIC to partially/fully justify the price hike where training will be given to further enhance the public track day experience by minimising red flags. Please do correct me if i'm wrong. If SCMC is made easily accessible (affordable price, low minimum requirements to be a member etc) with benefits that would attract track junkies like me to join then by all means it's good.
Understood, it's just that i was under the impression that SCMC is a value adding efforts made by SIC to partially/fully justify the price hike where training will be given to further enhance the public track day experience by minimising red flags. Please do correct me if i'm wrong. If SCMC is made easily accessible (affordable price, low minimum requirements to be a member etc) with benefits that would attract track junkies like me to join then by all means it's good.
I think a lot of fellow forumers correlate price hike with SCMC.
Lets put aside the price hike from discussion, and share what you would like to get from Open Track Days.
1. Free water (ice cold water!!) or isotonic drinks
2. Rebates/discounts for frequent trackers
3. T-shirt, glove, stickers etc (something like a loyalty card to exchange these gifts)
4. Each pit to have a tire pressure gauge so we can check the pressure on and off
5. Stricter guarding of no smoking in pit lanes
Lets put aside the price hike from discussion, and share what you would like to get from Open Track Days.
1. Free water (ice cold water!!) or isotonic drinks
2. Rebates/discounts for frequent trackers
3. T-shirt, glove, stickers etc (something like a loyalty card to exchange these gifts)
4. Each pit to have a tire pressure gauge so we can check the pressure on and off
5. Stricter guarding of no smoking in pit lanes
h3id3rn and dawg.
Ya true. I guess I'm not differentiated these 2 issues clearly.
Price hike is an issue which statement that'll explain reasons behind it, will come from SIC operation directly. I know they will come out with official statement soon. I'm not the one who have the capacity to answer that.
SCMC is another issue altogether which I'm involved in and I can speak about. It will be revived back with objective to make Track days experience better. Many ways can contribute to better experience of track days, we think of something and we appreciate track goers themselves contributes their ideas to us.
Thank you to Dawg and h3id3rn who have gave some. We'll look into it.
Ya true. I guess I'm not differentiated these 2 issues clearly.
Price hike is an issue which statement that'll explain reasons behind it, will come from SIC operation directly. I know they will come out with official statement soon. I'm not the one who have the capacity to answer that.
SCMC is another issue altogether which I'm involved in and I can speak about. It will be revived back with objective to make Track days experience better. Many ways can contribute to better experience of track days, we think of something and we appreciate track goers themselves contributes their ideas to us.
Thank you to Dawg and h3id3rn who have gave some. We'll look into it.
i wud like 2 hear frm old members of d yesteryear's SCMC...since they haf been in d club b4,they shud b able 2 point out more wat r d benefits of joining,wat cud b improved.........
wat i always look 4ward to whn i go open track days is MINIMAL red flags,less of need 2 fight 4 pits.....2 me,dis 2 r VERY important.........
really annoying whn u've done ur warm up lap.....approaching T15 thn WHAM!!!red flag!....equally annoying whn u go back 2 d pits,u c alot of cars blocking d pits n also strangers parking in d pits whc u initially occupied......annoyed is 1 thg,worried 4 d stuffs left in d pits is also another thg but so far i've never heard of theft incidents during open track days lar..whc is good......
wat i always look 4ward to whn i go open track days is MINIMAL red flags,less of need 2 fight 4 pits.....2 me,dis 2 r VERY important.........
really annoying whn u've done ur warm up lap.....approaching T15 thn WHAM!!!red flag!....equally annoying whn u go back 2 d pits,u c alot of cars blocking d pits n also strangers parking in d pits whc u initially occupied......annoyed is 1 thg,worried 4 d stuffs left in d pits is also another thg but so far i've never heard of theft incidents during open track days lar..whc is good......
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Dear Mr Bart,
Speaking as a member of SCMC, i have no complaints about the 15% discount given to the track fees. Aspiring to be an international circuit is all well & good but the service provided by your administration Mr Bart SUCKS big time!
A simple task like producing membership card is somehow a task impossible to achieve by your administration. I have been waiting ONE YEAR for my membership card and these are the excuses given by your staff named En. Shamsul:
1. Waiting to accumulate new members then will send to contractor at one go
2. Change of management & new boss thinks contractor charges too much for membership cards
3. Stopped contractor services & going to buy machine to print cards in-house
4. Dunno...
After the dunno answer i say screw it. Now what are enthusiast like us gonna think when u increase track fees when service provided are sub standard. You say the increase are inevitable but do your part in making the increase JUSTIFIABLE to fellow trackies like me. Forget about the training & such. Let's start from the basics first. These are some suggestions:
1. Have a regular open track day at least once a month to spread out the attendees
2. Limit cars to a specified amount and abide by it. You guys are just plain greedy & always go beyond the limit when crowds are bigger.
3. Open an on-line registration for open track day to avoid queues & disappointment on actual day.
4. The regulars are normally well versed in the etiquette of track driving & abide by the flags, it is the newbies that complicate things. From experience the newbies driving are not too bad but they need to be educated on proper etiquette, flag comprehension & professional courtesy on the track & in the pits. These are easily resolved by printing the etiquette,guidelines, rules & regulations, do's & don'ts & flag sign-age on the registration form. Have an acceptance box at the end of it and signing is an acceptance of the laid out rules & regulations. At least when an individual misbehaves, you can reprimand him for not abiding the signed registration form.
5. Provide stickers for track day cars & BAN all non track cars from the pits. These kiasu buggers think it's a car show. Allo!! Your car is always better than your manhood!!! If you are a real man, let's all drive on the track. Bunch of show offs with small d**K.
6. Proper behaviour in the pits e.g no smoking,alcohol etc. Have a personnel walk up & down the pit and reprimand anyone who misbehaves
I have got a load more ideas but lets give the other esteemed forumers to give some sensible, practical & easily executable ideas. Forget about the free drinks & such..let's be mature & sensible about this. If u can afford to attend track day, you can buy your own mineral water or 100+.
Well Mr Bart, i have had my say. Think small steps..improve the basics first. If your administration can improve all the things i've listed above then we know you are listening. At least we know this is a dialoque & not a monoloque. I'm sure many of us regulars will feel less surly on the price increase if you can improve on the items listed.
Speaking as a member of SCMC, i have no complaints about the 15% discount given to the track fees. Aspiring to be an international circuit is all well & good but the service provided by your administration Mr Bart SUCKS big time!
A simple task like producing membership card is somehow a task impossible to achieve by your administration. I have been waiting ONE YEAR for my membership card and these are the excuses given by your staff named En. Shamsul:
1. Waiting to accumulate new members then will send to contractor at one go
2. Change of management & new boss thinks contractor charges too much for membership cards
3. Stopped contractor services & going to buy machine to print cards in-house
4. Dunno...
After the dunno answer i say screw it. Now what are enthusiast like us gonna think when u increase track fees when service provided are sub standard. You say the increase are inevitable but do your part in making the increase JUSTIFIABLE to fellow trackies like me. Forget about the training & such. Let's start from the basics first. These are some suggestions:
1. Have a regular open track day at least once a month to spread out the attendees
2. Limit cars to a specified amount and abide by it. You guys are just plain greedy & always go beyond the limit when crowds are bigger.
3. Open an on-line registration for open track day to avoid queues & disappointment on actual day.
4. The regulars are normally well versed in the etiquette of track driving & abide by the flags, it is the newbies that complicate things. From experience the newbies driving are not too bad but they need to be educated on proper etiquette, flag comprehension & professional courtesy on the track & in the pits. These are easily resolved by printing the etiquette,guidelines, rules & regulations, do's & don'ts & flag sign-age on the registration form. Have an acceptance box at the end of it and signing is an acceptance of the laid out rules & regulations. At least when an individual misbehaves, you can reprimand him for not abiding the signed registration form.
5. Provide stickers for track day cars & BAN all non track cars from the pits. These kiasu buggers think it's a car show. Allo!! Your car is always better than your manhood!!! If you are a real man, let's all drive on the track. Bunch of show offs with small d**K.
6. Proper behaviour in the pits e.g no smoking,alcohol etc. Have a personnel walk up & down the pit and reprimand anyone who misbehaves
I have got a load more ideas but lets give the other esteemed forumers to give some sensible, practical & easily executable ideas. Forget about the free drinks & such..let's be mature & sensible about this. If u can afford to attend track day, you can buy your own mineral water or 100+.
Well Mr Bart, i have had my say. Think small steps..improve the basics first. If your administration can improve all the things i've listed above then we know you are listening. At least we know this is a dialoque & not a monoloque. I'm sure many of us regulars will feel less surly on the price increase if you can improve on the items listed.
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When you say its all about track experience....how can that be when most ppl cant even afford to "experience" it ? here we are talking about driving courses and all....most ppl learn hands on,through video's or even practice. i mean isn't that how we all start out anyways? a simple briefing on rules,guidelines and maybe some driving tips will be more than sufficient...
anyways about the boycott me and my friends from JB will be more than glad to join in....feel free to come over to pasir gudang too guys....they are soon gonna run major maintenance on the track...resurfacing the track...adding better facilities to be able to host major events....if you guys come on saturdays....saturday night will have Drag racing events...rm30 per car...hehehe....
anyways about the boycott me and my friends from JB will be more than glad to join in....feel free to come over to pasir gudang too guys....they are soon gonna run major maintenance on the track...resurfacing the track...adding better facilities to be able to host major events....if you guys come on saturdays....saturday night will have Drag racing events...rm30 per car...hehehe....
saturday night drag event is RM20per car....
RM10 per person....
RM10 per person....
"I have got a load more ideas but lets give the other esteemed forumers to give some sensible, practical & easily executable ideas. Forget about the free drinks & such..let's be mature & sensible about this. If u can afford to attend track day, you can buy your own mineral water or 100+."
Lets be mature about this discussion, how about not dissing other opinions that people suggested?
I give mine, you give yours. End of the day it contributes to them making a better track experience for us all.
I was merely kick starting what we should be telling Bart rather than typing BOYCOTT BOYCOTT or complaining about the hike when Bart clearly stated that the price hike is not his call and not within his control.
Lets be mature about this discussion, how about not dissing other opinions that people suggested?
I give mine, you give yours. End of the day it contributes to them making a better track experience for us all.
I was merely kick starting what we should be telling Bart rather than typing BOYCOTT BOYCOTT or complaining about the hike when Bart clearly stated that the price hike is not his call and not within his control.
Thanks everyone. Any suggestion, ideas, we're listening.
---------- Post added at 03:56 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 02:17 PM ----------
We have ideas but no harm to listening to others. Lets share ours. Now, we've been thinking on this particular idea to lessened the frequency of red flags. We do recognize that it can't be totally written off but some red flags are caused by carelessness. To be fair to other track users, we need opinion whether it is good idea to impose penalty for people who caused red flag due to carelessness.?
---------- Post added at 03:56 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 02:17 PM ----------
We have ideas but no harm to listening to others. Lets share ours. Now, we've been thinking on this particular idea to lessened the frequency of red flags. We do recognize that it can't be totally written off but some red flags are caused by carelessness. To be fair to other track users, we need opinion whether it is good idea to impose penalty for people who caused red flag due to carelessness.?
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eversince the price hike from rm150 to rm200...its quite a pain already taken into consideration with the uncontrollable crowd and on track traffic, its does not justify the rm50 hike....den followed by a rm200 -> rm250 which I already stayed away from .....n now....rm300 ??!!!
welll maybe its a soft statement from SIC mgt to call out to those who own and see rm300 as peanuts
my 30 cents worth to you SIC!! pui !!!!!
welll maybe its a soft statement from SIC mgt to call out to those who own and see rm300 as peanuts
my 30 cents worth to you SIC!! pui !!!!!
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how do you plan to determine which red flag instances are caused by carelessness? is there going to be some sort of body / council during the session or its solely based upon the discretion of a track marshal? if a person gets fined would there be any means of appealing his/her case?
i think maybe you guys should focus a bit more on the mechanical aspects of things as opposed to trying to control issues regarding human error with fines and skill improvement modules. over the past year i've seen a substantial amount of instances where the red flags were caused by crashes due to issues such as cars running on bald street tires, with oil leaks, bad brakes, non working brake lights etc. etc. its a different issue if mechanical failures happen during the an actual run as that is purely unforseen but with proper scrutinizing of cars by qualified officials prior to signing in for a session on the abovementioned issues i think you guys can cut down the amount of red flag instances during an open track session.
i think maybe you guys should focus a bit more on the mechanical aspects of things as opposed to trying to control issues regarding human error with fines and skill improvement modules. over the past year i've seen a substantial amount of instances where the red flags were caused by crashes due to issues such as cars running on bald street tires, with oil leaks, bad brakes, non working brake lights etc. etc. its a different issue if mechanical failures happen during the an actual run as that is purely unforseen but with proper scrutinizing of cars by qualified officials prior to signing in for a session on the abovementioned issues i think you guys can cut down the amount of red flag instances during an open track session.
Point taken.
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i was just wondering how are u guys gonna train like for example 70 cars (70 drivers) for each and everyone just for 1 particular track day? and are u guys gonna do it for before each track day all the time this year onwards? hmm, i guess the rm 100 increase is not even close to enuf for u guys to impose this. professional training means u need professional trainers. 1 trainers = train 5-6 drivers?
10 trainers can only train about 60 drivers, which is already on the high no side.
If ure saying 1-5 trainers to conduct training on the pit for like 70 cars just by talking, it aint worth it at all for those trackies.
it is best to maintain the price at RM200 and run as it is if you all cant provide a solid solution to improve this and that.
towing a break down car/ car stuck on the gravel FAST is not an improvement, its a must for all the track not only in msia. its not only to avoid frustration cause red light but more to on SAFETY for everyone.
and sometimes i notice some jackarses is still running while is red light which its damn bloody annoying. you guys should have kick them out from the track immediately if the person have actually run more than 1 and a half track during the red light. ive seen some run till the Marshall gotta stand at the mid of the track just to stop this idiots.
suggestion = kick them out and keep their entree fee money
suggestion= what about the regulars huh? no offer kah? u all got all the records for the form that we fill in for each track day
work out something la for us, you wan us to give name? we come in a group, for example hi3r3n, benzer, akuma, and A LOT more that never post anything here yet
we poison each other to come to track day, u all provide la some POISON(discount, keke) for us to poison each other
Gentlemen.
Whether or not SCMC will be revived, the price hike will still takes place. It's a whole different issue. COO of SIC (Mr. Kumar) will come with statement soon that will address on this matter.
SCMC on the other hand, is SIC effort in making track days better by trying to maximize TD experience among it's members. I can't stop everyone to correlate this two issue naturally because the timing of announcement. But correlating or not, on SIC part, we have this commitment to objective of TD.
We're still in discussion on training. Bear in mind that the kind of training won't make you another Schumacher but will address more to track safety. One will argue than that he can already drive fast. Understood. But comes another issue whether by being fast, one can be safe as well? Not only to himself but to others which shares the same track.
One example. Speed difference between high powered and ordinary sedan may contribute to untoward incidents (i don't want to elaborate, i'm not the right person). The kind of training that we think is not to make anyone intimidate by this and knowing what to do on different situation. Driving fast and driving skillfully is two different things. But most importantly, everyone, pro and beginners must be well verse with basic track safety. Flagging and all. The very basic one.
Another example. We try to make TD a safer place somehow we think it's possible to do segregation by grading. Beginners and first timer in Beginners class, seasoned track goers who already knows theories and can go fast comfortably in Intermediate Class while MSS regular or those who've particpated in MMER in Advanced Class. The concentration will be given to Beginners where basic training will be provided.
And there are also off track issues that also contribute to TD experience. Lockers issue for instance. We're looking into this as well.
I must admit that there's still a lot need to refine on this but we're working on it. And we welcome any ideas. And Clement, yeah. We also thinking on what kind of discount we can offer. But one thing for sure, there will be a discount :)
Whether or not SCMC will be revived, the price hike will still takes place. It's a whole different issue. COO of SIC (Mr. Kumar) will come with statement soon that will address on this matter.
SCMC on the other hand, is SIC effort in making track days better by trying to maximize TD experience among it's members. I can't stop everyone to correlate this two issue naturally because the timing of announcement. But correlating or not, on SIC part, we have this commitment to objective of TD.
We're still in discussion on training. Bear in mind that the kind of training won't make you another Schumacher but will address more to track safety. One will argue than that he can already drive fast. Understood. But comes another issue whether by being fast, one can be safe as well? Not only to himself but to others which shares the same track.
One example. Speed difference between high powered and ordinary sedan may contribute to untoward incidents (i don't want to elaborate, i'm not the right person). The kind of training that we think is not to make anyone intimidate by this and knowing what to do on different situation. Driving fast and driving skillfully is two different things. But most importantly, everyone, pro and beginners must be well verse with basic track safety. Flagging and all. The very basic one.
Another example. We try to make TD a safer place somehow we think it's possible to do segregation by grading. Beginners and first timer in Beginners class, seasoned track goers who already knows theories and can go fast comfortably in Intermediate Class while MSS regular or those who've particpated in MMER in Advanced Class. The concentration will be given to Beginners where basic training will be provided.
And there are also off track issues that also contribute to TD experience. Lockers issue for instance. We're looking into this as well.
I must admit that there's still a lot need to refine on this but we're working on it. And we welcome any ideas. And Clement, yeah. We also thinking on what kind of discount we can offer. But one thing for sure, there will be a discount :)
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so basically you guys are adopting a HPC-ish format and essentially killing off the open format track day thus making the ppl who want a open format track day to register for special/private open format events which will not only obviously cost more and but also only allow a limited number of entrants?
seems like were being strong armed into paying even more for a open format track day like what is offered now.
seems like were being strong armed into paying even more for a open format track day like what is offered now.
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