Ignition setting

[flamefox850]

i have a problem that want tips of kampung style tuning. dun say dyno tuning or wide band tuning or aftermarket knock sensing becos i'm in kelantan and to go KL...huuhuu far far away lah

my ride is kancil 850EX that being hybrid with L2 turbo, piston change to L2 and so on so on (check my website for further specs information)
CHECK OUT MY WEBSITE HERE

my problem starts when i change to GSR turbo injectors (390cc) from my ori L2 injectors (190-200cc). the problem is knocking/pinging.

i set the safc and test it myself...no monitoring system just my EGT meter that shows lower temp than before (i assume i running rich a little) even on 4000rpm and higher. my engine starts knocking when i suddenly WOT after cruising at 3000rpm. sometimes 5000rpm also have knock.
now i'm confuse becos after changing the injector...no adjustment made to distributor.

now, should i retard the ignition timing through distributor or any other method of tuning kampung style ?

thanks

p/s: i afraid if i retard the ignition timing, my power fall off too much

 

[zaki]

what's your base timing?
try revert to original injector. if u u're not planning to change turbo or increase boost i think it is unnecessary to replace the original injector. it is almost 100% increase of fuel supply while SAFC can only make `changes' +/-50% of fuel supply.

 

[flamefox850]

zaki, yes, i'm going to increase my boost but not now...tomorrow going to upgrade my clutch then i'm going to up boost....so big injectors is necessary. many more upgrade to come.

errr pls give me some idea to solve this knock problem...dun ask me to change back to my stock injector plss

p/s: dude, if i dun change injector...my boost cut occur at 0.8bar wooo, this due to my safc setting to counter the small injector that supplying small amount of fuel to my bigger block ;)

 

[d3ftones]

can u explain a bit how do u know it is pinging/knocking? cuz i might have the same problem.

 

[taqu]

Dude, GSR injectors are too large for L2! Ur original injectors should be good even for 150bhp, so try put back ur original injectors first. If u did that to increase boost, I don't think changing injectors enables u to go higher than stock 0.8 bar boost, coz it's controlled by the factory wastegate. Try looking for a boost controller or modify ur factory wastegate or DIY with "tulang ikan" style controller.

 

[flamefox850]

hehehe taqu, now proven my car not getting boost cut at 0.8bar lah. maybe not even 1.3bar boost cut lah hehe. but now problem with slipping clutch only. for more info, u can ask HKSGTwhatthehell (dunno how to spell the nickname) of terato.com how does big injectors,safc and map sensor works. he also using my theory to raise boost cut ;)

haiiii...apa la u all. not giving any advice with this setup. only asking me to change back..haishhh. many L2 user (even the block smaller than me) also using GSR..some even VR4 !!

ok..next

 

[taqu]

firefox, I don't know how L2 engine management works, can I assume L2 ECU controls boost cut by reading MAP sensor? If that's true, than that might be the reason why u can boost over stock 0.8 bar. Do u wired your SAFC to your MAP sensor instead of TPS sensor? If u still want to increase boost this way, u should set the SAFC setting to lower correction factor, negative correction if necessary, but I feel like once your air-fuel ratio has been corrected, the boost cut might come down to 0.8 bar again. Wideband O2 tuning is still the ultimate way for re-tune, but since wideband O2 might be very rare in Kelantan, why not try using a narrowband/stock O2 for tuning. Good luck, I also wanna know the results :)

 

[flamefox850]

taqu, yes L2 using MAP sensor and the TPS sensor only have on/off feature. cannot tell how many degree. u lift-off paddle, u get OFF mode, press it a little then it goes ON mode. so, i'm afraid L2 engine always using open-loop mode lah.

now my setting is all in -ev side already to compensate the richer fuel supplied by GSR injector and then again 0.8bar not my boost cut region anymore.

FYI, there is one guy in pasir mas bought a newly wide band monitor device but now i'm not going to him yet (charge rm100 for tuning ok or expensive?) as my car still under proggress

so, any solution ? as i'm not going to change back to stock injector..not going to downgrade lah hehe

 

[taqu]

flamefox850, do u mean ur max boost returns to 0.8 bar after u pull down ur SAFC settings to -ev? RM100 for wideband tuning? That's ok la, if that wideband got datalogging capability should be nice also, makes tuning easier. BTW do u know what brand of wideband O2 that Pasir Mas guy is using? I still say the best solution to increase ur boost is to get a boost controller, reverting back to ur stock injectors is not really a downgrade lar. Sorry my previous figure is wrong, coz I forgot Kancil engine only got 3 cylinder, but still L2 injectors (190-200cc) should good upto 130bhp, even 150bhp is possible, unless ur L2 already exceeds 150bhp :)

Refer to this link as a guideline to calculate proper injector size : http://www.rceng.com/technical.htm#WORKSHEET

 

[sang_kancil]

maybe u can go for da wide band tuning...rm100.00 is still ok laa...
rather than u kaboom da engine...

 

[wej7219]

The fuel mapping and ignition mapping for stock ecu are inter-related with each other. Due to your injector size, I think you have minus the afc to the max. Every time you minus the setting in afc, the ecu takes it as the volume of air is lesser. Since you have minus the setting to the max, the ecu gives you the max timing with the assumption that the volume of air so small when it actually not.

It is the same story with your boost cut. If you plus too much in afc setting the ecu assumes that the air flow is too much and it cuts the fuel supply.

 

[flamefox850]

aaaaaaahhhhhhhhh a very2 nice info from mr. WEJ7219 !! thanks man. i didn't realize that after cheating ECU that my engine got less air, the ECU advancing the ignition timing. whoaaah now i know. damn.

taqu : i dunno if my L2 exceed or will exceed 150hp or not..but i have to prepare the engine with proper fuel setup to up boost. ever since i use L2 injector that meant for L2 660cc turbo, i have to cheat ECU by telling its 660cc using 1.0bar boost, and it supply more fuel to my 882cc turbo. that's why previous setup got 0.8bar boost cut.
why i dun use stock L2 injector and raise fuel pressure ? hehe. too much pressure will easily make the injector kong in a short time. so better i change to bigger one. the GSR fit nicely and for me, it is suitable for more upgrade. taqu, one of my friend (acfk member) use stock L2 injector on his L2 (660cc) fully modified with microtech tune says that L2 injector will not supplying enough fuel after 1.3bar, means the engine will running lean.
his engine is 660cc and my engine is 882cc that is 1/3 bigger. so GSR is suitable i think B)

update : today i adjust the distributor, retarding the ignition timing a bit. result : a little knock only at 4000rpm. just barely tiktik sound can be heard. so, next step would be richer a bit on 4000rpm or retarding again on ignition..will try soon

 

[flamefox850]

taqu : to clear up ur confusion, FYI, my boost is not fluctuating from 1.0bar to 0.8bar or whatsoever. what i'm trying to say is, my previous setup with too much +ve side on SAFC with stock L2 injector, my ECU sees that 0.8bar = 1.0bar (stock L2 BOOST CUT level).
so now i install GSR injector then i adjust to -ve side on SAFC to get to nearest stoich level, then my ECU sees my 0.8bar just like 0.4bar. so my 1.3bar, the ECU sees only 0.9bar...then i will not getting boost cut before reaching 1.4bar. got it ? ^_^

 

[sang_kancil]

flame,
can share da parameters for da afc setting?
:)
just to make slight comparison wif mine...

take checking yesterday...yep our mech says that have to retard not to adv. but have to play around wif it...

btw, how u overcome da boost cut problem? do u use modded ecu? or FCD device? or cheat da sensor ?

 

[flamefox850]

errr hard to tell la...in my car kekekekeke. i'll check out later ok but for sure 800rpm = -30, 2400rpm=-28 ...the rest i'll check out first
and this is with stock fuel regulator with 2.0bar (megat tell me this)

overcome boost cut ? this kinda method is NOT REMOVING THE BOOST CUT but it RAISE THE BOOST CUT LEVEL. let say common boost cut occur at 1.0bar, now my car maybe got 1.4bar boost cut level. so 1.3bar still no boost cut..safe driving..no jerking hehe

why raise ? becos set the safc to -ve side is cheating ECU that ur engine got less boost. 1.3bar is something like 0.9bar that the ECU sees. (depends on ur safc figure)