328i Lost to A4T

[Ingolstadt]

Sad thing that luxury marques seldom consider manual tranny for Malaysian market due there's a common perception here that dictates manual is something for the less well being.

Many cars that were sold here only comes with a manual for lower specced models. AND I HATE THAT. How i wished my Audi was manual..... (thinking of all the costs saved from maintaining an auto box... )

By the way, this thread is a whole lot different from 'normal' zth threads... full of ideas and informative discussions rather than most of the pointless threads in zth. ha~~ we all who discussed here should be awarded by Tom. hehe~ nice forummers all !

 

[jugbugz]

Ingolstadt,

I agree with you about this thread being more lively than others. Some other forums and threads are a bit snobby too.

Sad to hear that almost all of the cars there are auto. Mines an auto...but kicks ass too. hehe... I thought that there would be more maintainence for a manual box then the auto box? I haven't done any maintenance to mine except I booked in a oil change for the box... at 100,000kms its about the right time.

Which model you driving?

Kind of tell by your signature picture that its an offroader?

Automatic isn't that bad when you've got another manual car... It's pretty relaxing actually.

But the bad thing about auto box is that it limits the amount of power you want to boost on your car. Especially mine. I'd be boosting 10psi+ by now if it was a manual... so then I decided to get a manual 330ci and turbo it.

 

[si|verfish]

On automatic transmissions;

I think they've come a long way. The gearboxes on AMG Mercs for example. Hugely robust and capable of handling the performance.

Also, the weapon of choice for huge torque monster muscle cars is an auto box.

 

[Ingolstadt]

Ingolstadt,

I agree with you about this thread being more lively than others. Some other forums and threads are a bit snobby too.

Sad to hear that almost all of the cars there are auto. Mines an auto...but kicks ass too. hehe... I thought that there would be more maintainence for a manual box then the auto box? I haven't done any maintenance to mine except I booked in a oil change for the box... at 100,000kms its about the right time.

Which model you driving?

Kind of tell by your signature picture that its an offroader?

Automatic isn't that bad when you've got another manual car... It's pretty relaxing actually.

But the bad thing about auto box is that it limits the amount of power you want to boost on your car. Especially mine. I'd be boosting 10psi+ by now if it was a manual... so then I decided to get a manual 330ci and turbo it.

Mine's an A4 B5 1.8T, Frontrak. Q7? I can't afford that ! :)

 

[HanJackaL]

Besides comfort,how can an Auto car be better than a Manual car when it comes to performance?Auto car = more friction = more power loss than manual.So if that "muscle" car is fast using auto,it SHOULD be faster when its manual.

In Malaysia,people who are 40+ and drive a performance car usually prefer their car to be Tiptronic or Automatic because they want the comfort.You know how jammed Malaysia is and the roads are quite bad.And besides,most older people dont really know much about cars so they buy a car based on the car's image.Ask 10 Ferrari owners why they bought their car.I bet they cant give proper valid reasons aside from "It looks good" and "Its a Ferrari". =P Oh ya,if they bought their Ferrari in Manual instead of Auto/Tiptronic,they wouldnt know how to control it properly !!

 

[si|verfish]

Aha! You see, when you have ENOUGH (and I mean really enough) power and torque, you don't mind the power loss because of the auto box. Some of these big muscle cars easily have 500+ bhp and more. Some making 1000+ bhp long before the arrival of the Veyron and its state of the art DSG. These guys mainly show up at the drag strip. So what you need is a very very robust 3 speed auto. For one, a manual that can handle all that oomph will probably be beyond expensive and for two, trying to shift a manual with that much power yourself will probably cause some "unexpected" incidents. Autos give consistent shifting.

Same thing with the AMG Mercs. They have loads of grunt and they don't mind the power loss. Plus the autos nowadays are brilliant, definitely not the cumbersome, slow shifting rubbish they once were. And it goes well with Mercedes' image of luxury and performance.

Anyway, that's the little that I've been able to observe.

 

[jugbugz]

Besides comfort,how can an Auto car be better than a Manual car when it comes to performance?Auto car = more friction = more power loss than manual.So if that "muscle" car is fast using auto,it SHOULD be faster when its manual.

In Malaysia,people who are 40+ and drive a performance car usually prefer their car to be Tiptronic or Automatic because they want the comfort.You know how jammed Malaysia is and the roads are quite bad.And besides,most older people dont really know much about cars so they buy a car based on the car's image.Ask 10 Ferrari owners why they bought their car.I bet they cant give proper valid reasons aside from "It looks good" and "Its a Ferrari". =P Oh ya,if they bought their Ferrari in Manual instead of Auto/Tiptronic,they wouldnt know how to control it properly !!

Actually,

Cars like AMG's are made for racing, the autobox doesn't necessary mean it depreciates the performance always, infact auto boxes put more torque to the ground than a manual box. Manual box will put more hp to the froung than an auto box. This is always the case. However these days the conception of an autobox is different. Silverfish's examples are right.

At the drag strip, many drag cars switch to autobox as they are stronger, more consistant, shift faster, and have been proved to take up to 1 secs off their 1/4 mile time, some even more. Manual boxes however require the human's skill of releasing clutch, applying power, etc. Human potential is limited.

Look at F1. If the drivers were have to change gears on top of what they are doing now. I'm sure we will see much more accidents. Human physical + mental strength again is limited. Imagine how heavy the clutch would be the control 1500bhp+. Crazy!!!!

But these days especially on high performance cars..meaning AMG's, Buggati, Pagani, Porsches etc. All of their autoboxes don't have much difference(if any) with manual in transfering the power to the wheels. And they all shift quicker than a manual. That's what you pay for right??? Why pay that much for a car and sweat like a pig trying to hit the claimed 0-100 time. ???? let the autobox do it! funny shiet hey...
BMW's SMG actually blips the throttle when you downshift.. pretty cool huh.

Actually if you read porsches claim about the 997 turbo stock, the autobox version is quicker to 0-100 than the manual. 3.7secs(auto) and 3.9secs(manual). Amazing shiet!!!! 80-120 in 3.3secs auto in 5 gear. 3.5secs manual in 5 gear. Really amazing shiet. And most of all, 620nm of troque available from 1950rpm to 5000rpm. 353Kw/473hp @ 6000rpm. $327,000AUD. I haven't heard of any ferrari at that price could anything close. I just can't imagine what the 997 GT2 would be like. HAIL AUTOBOXES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I just can't stop saying amazing shiet!!! Compare anything at that price, I'll take the porsche any day.

 

[jugbugz]

Btw...
I tried driving a ferrari 550 maranello in manual and I tell you that it is like learning to drive a manual box all over again. Damn hard to drive it smoothly and gear shift is rough!! quite rough! bloody clutch damn heavy too.
Soon after I learnt that starting the car off in 2nd gear is much much easier and smoother than any other car out there. Just slowly release the clutch and don't need to press on the accelerator and it just moves like a ballet dancer. Theres just so much torque on idle. 485hp V12.. what do you expect.
F1 SMG would have been good.

 

[Ingolstadt]

wow~ it would've been almost unimaginable for average malaysians to ever have driven a Ferrari.

Anyway, i quite hate how hypercar marques changes all of their tranny to either tiptronics or autobox....

LOOK AT THAT GEAR KNOB. I MISSED IT. I WANT THAT ON MY A4! !!!!!!!

 

[ZeeDr]

Hey guys... I totally agree with what Ingols said.. that we have a very interesting discussion going on here.. real driving enthusiaists all of us here.. Cant imagine that it all originated from my 'lost to an A4T'.. Well, after all's been said and done, I guess it has made us all more enlightened.. And Koolspyda, no offences taken.. it's all cool.. Yes, it is damn shitty that most of the saloons here are sold as automatic only.. A manual would have been much better.. I guess, the marketing guys r just targeting the 'uncles'!! The next best bet would be a tiptronic.. not that fast but still capable of changing gears.. Porsches r totally awesome.. Had a ride in a 996 Targa auto and that thing rocks!! Jugz's got a good idea: get an auto and a 2nd car as manual.. Looking at a manual MRS.. But so far, only found a semi-auto one.. Did u guys read about the new Z4 M coupe in NST today? Sounds like a 911 killer from Munich!! but the butt looks a bit odd...

 

[si|verfish]

A Boxster killer, yes. 911 killer, not quite. And it seems quite an animal to drive.

 

[Ingolstadt]

I love the Z8. Still, the Z4 Coupe (Yes, Coupe only) looks the part. But as my sig suggests, I'd go for a TT Cabrio (Not the new one, the old one)

Well, for coupes or hot hatches. Nothing is higher in my wishlist than the Alfa Brera. WoW !

Yes Silverfish, Mediocrity is a SIN. :D

 

[koolspyda]

And Koolspyda, no offences taken.. it's all cool.. Yes, it is damn shitty that most of the saloons here are sold as automatic only.. A manual would have been much better.. I guess, the marketing guys r just targeting the 'uncles'!! The next best bet would be a tiptronic.. not that fast but still capable of changing gears.. Porsches r totally awesome.. Had a ride in a 996 Targa auto and that thing rocks!! Jugz's got a good idea: get an auto and a 2nd car as manual.. Looking at a manual MRS.. But so far, only found a semi-auto one.. Did u guys read about the new Z4 M coupe in NST today? Sounds like a 911 killer from Munich!! but the butt looks a bit odd...

>Digress<Toyota australia only brought in SMT MRS as they felt the market is towards that. (much to the dismay to enthusiast at aust forums) but it clearly shows how marketing people think.

 

[si|verfish]

Yeah, the Z4 M Coupe looks just right. So far, it is my favourite of all the new BMW designs. Reminds me a lot of how TVRs look.

 

[Ingolstadt]

but TVR looks vulgar to me... and i heard the build quality of TVRs were like Protons?

 

[si|verfish]

Worse I think. Its basically made like the action figures you had when you were a kid. Plastic and falls apart when you get a little rough. You can also forget about ease of use because the dashboard is unfathomable. And yes it looks vulgar but that's part of its charm. And so is the barking mad straight six under the bonnet. You'll probably die if you drive it daily but for track work, I reckon it will be an experience to remember.

 

[jugbugz]

Hey guys... I totally agree with what Ingols said.. that we have a very interesting discussion going on here.. real driving enthusiaists all of us here.. Cant imagine that it all originated from my 'lost to an A4T'.. Well, after all's been said and done, I guess it has made us all more enlightened.. And Koolspyda, no offences taken.. it's all cool.. Yes, it is damn shitty that most of the saloons here are sold as automatic only.. A manual would have been much better.. I guess, the marketing guys r just targeting the 'uncles'!! The next best bet would be a tiptronic.. not that fast but still capable of changing gears.. Porsches r totally awesome.. Had a ride in a 996 Targa auto and that thing rocks!! Jugz's got a good idea: get an auto and a 2nd car as manual.. Looking at a manual MRS.. But so far, only found a semi-auto one.. Did u guys read about the new Z4 M coupe in NST today? Sounds like a 911 killer from Munich!! but the butt looks a bit odd...

I first thought it looked wierd then it looked good and now boring to me. I still like the E46 the best. hench thats why I've got a manual 330ci. hehe.

There's a lot of supercharged Z4 3.0 with 400hp that already kicks the 911 and boxster S long time ago. BMW is just way too slow.....

There's aleady a Hartge E90 3 Series with a modded V10 M5 engine that you can import. Also a V8 1 series with 450bhp. And a 500bhp supercharged version of the 645ci with stacks more torque than the M6. Hamann got a 600bhp M6 already and blah blah blah... BMW's new M3 has only 400hp which is quite dissapointing when stacks of modded Beemers already have that figure or way more.

My 330ci Turbo is going to have around 475hp and 540 -580Nm. I don't need an M3 when I can mod my E46 looking like the M3 GTR.

BMW is getting really really slow. Look at AMG. That's how BMW's M division should be. Make stacks of HP to compete with the rest.

but then again Maybe BMW is just leaving the modding with the aftermarket world as their engines are damn strong and nice. Probally 1 of the best things about the engine' is the double vanos system. Nice and torquey down low with gd mid range and revvy up high.

 

[jugbugz]

wow~ it would've been almost unimaginable for average malaysians to ever have driven a Ferrari.

Anyway, i quite hate how hypercar marques changes all of their tranny to either tiptronics or autobox....

LOOK AT THAT GEAR KNOB. I MISSED IT. I WANT THAT ON MY A4! !!!!!!!

hahaha... That's the gear box I hate!!!! Damn rough on the 550M. I gotta be so careful shifting from 2nd to 3rd. Then again it could've been that it was a new car.
Damn ferrari gear boxes.

 

[jugbugz]

BTW guys... I'm getting my car dynoed next week or so.
Hopefully it will be good.

 

[Kookaburra]

.........There's aleady a Hartge E90 3 Series with a modded V10 M5 engine that you can import. Also a V8 1 series with 450bhp. And a 500bhp supercharged version of the 645ci with stacks more torque than the M6. Hamann got a 600bhp M6 already and blah blah blah... BMW's new M3 has only 400hp which is quite dissapointing when stacks of modded Beemers already have that figure or way more.

My 330ci Turbo is going to have around 475hp and 540 -580Nm. I don't need an M3 when I can mod my E46 looking like the M3 GTR.

BMW is getting really really slow. Look at AMG. That's how BMW's M division should be. Make stacks of HP to compete with the rest.........

Horsepower is not everything, although they do sell cars! Put an M3 on track against a Hartge 3 series with more horsepower and the M3 will probably still be faster. A modded car doesn't have many stuff available in the M like the brakes, suspension, differentials and weight balance.

On the open road, the Hartge may be faster but anyone with balls can drive fast on a straight public road.

I think M division should continue with their philosophy of building driver's oriented cars, it's what makes them special! Over the years, they have lost the plot slightly as they want to sell cars. The original E30 M3 and the M1 are street-legal race cars!

Lastly, there is nothing like driving a manual car. I have fun every time driving my Mk2 Golf with a small puny 1.8 engine :regular_smile: