Sharing my first time experience on rotary... EPIC FAIL

Veloc

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Hi guys and all detailing senior practitioner, and KC...

Here are some pictures of my first time, DIY wet sanding and rotary... **Parental Advisory (18F)**: What you are about to see is nothing like what sifus and seniors here did. This is a first attempt.

The day I got my warriors assembled, I was so excited!!!
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The night before, I tried to ask my friends if anyone is willing to let me try on their car... Nobody was convenient. God is good. I thank God for that because what would happen would have been disastrous.

Morning, 9am. Went out to look for scrap bonnet. Chop shop wanted to chop me for RM150. Finally, went to a paint and body shop owned by a friend and he sold to me for RM30. No bonnet available, so he gave me a wira trunk hood. Here goes...


The hood was really beaten up and dirty with dust, soil, and grease. It looks perfect and undamaged at first because of the amount of dirt that covered it... Even damaged my car's interior when I was transporting it back. Sprayed with water and used OPC full strength. After seeing how much OPC i've used and the dirt remaining, I got no choice but to resort to detergent...
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Really inconvenient because house is undergoing renovation. Had to work beside this metal grinding guy with sparks flying all over... Thank God the sun was kind and weather was cool today and without rain!
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After the aggressive cleaning and the ONR, the imperfections started to show up!!! Countless of deep scratches as if people use the hood to operate a pan knife/cutter blade.
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Rust spot, body fillers, gum, what ever you name...
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This is the thing that gave me hell and took the most time removing it. The double sided tape for the mini spoiler (wira). The gum is sticking so tough onto the paint. And yet when I scrub it, the sponge breaks off leaving the sticky part to it. I even tried to sand it starting from 400 grit. But seeing the rate, I think this is impossible to finish today. So I drove off to buy more aggressive sandpaper.
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Here... So what I used was 80, 240, 400, 800, 1000. KC asked to narrow down to 1500, 2000, then 2500 but there is none available here! Hard to find stuff in KK! What to do?
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Some of the damages on the hood... For this scratch, I have sanded it down till if feels smooth to the touch... But it is still visible... why why why????
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After wet sanding the whole hood, I felt that I made a big mistake... How to remove these scratches? But I cannot chose to not sand because if I don't, how to smoothen out the scratches? :bawling:
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More scratches from sanding...
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Really screwed up hood from my sanding...
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This is what you call sanding super fail! But I had to sand this aggressively to remove that double sided tape. Until some places are sanded through into the metal... OMG...
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And now the rotary part... I am totally astounded by this rotary... I never expected Makita is this much of a heavyweight! After every pass, I was panting! And while spinning, it is as if it tried to swing my had away... Had to wrestle with it and it wasn't easy.... I was constantly losing control and being controlled by the machine... Damn... Fishbonezken was right... seeing it and doing it is a totally different thing :joyman:... I have to say this is hard and requires energy, stamina, and practice.

After 2 passes of OHC and wool pad; 2 passes of OHP and wool pad; 2 passes of OHC with cutting pad; 2 passes of OHP with cutting pad... Speed 1 to spread, 2 to work, SPEED 3 when I was really pissed off, then back down to 1.
No use... My OHC sprayer spoilt... So had to open the bottle and rub the compound on the wool.
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Even the rusted spot smoothen out to a smooth touch. But the scratches persisted!
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After I tore off the dividing tape... Tada!!!! Quoting KC: "Now you see it, now you don't". But mine is "now you see it, now you see it clearer" :bawling:. Haha....
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50/50. Left undone, right done. As you can see, no difference.
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Try and compare with before sanding, compound, polish... Looks like just washing with ONR is better. At least still got a tree reflection... :bawling:
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This is my post for today... Lesson learned... KC said never use 80 grit to sand paint because it is for iron rod... Haha... Good and sad lesson...
I would like to clarify, this post is in no way defaming the products used. It is my first trial and I need tons of practice. I believe the machine, the optimum products, are remarkable... The proof is pictures of ONR and OPC at work. This first time, I totally screw up because I used 80 grit. I never expected this... Want to upload pictures also malu la... But the reason I upload is that I really appreciate if you guys, detailers, and KC can give some input, correct me, educate me... I will not give up...


Thank you...
 

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Hi guys and all detailing senior practitioner, and KC...

Here are some pictures of my first time, DIY wet sanding and rotary... **Parental Advisory (18F)**: What you are about to see is nothing like what sifus and seniors here did. This is failed project.

The day I got my warriors assembled, I was so excited!!!
attachment.php


The night before, I tried to ask my friends if anyone is willing to let me try on their car... Nobody was convenient. God is good. I thank God for that because what would happen would have been disastrous.

Morning, 9am. Went out to look for scrap bonnet. Chop shop wanted to chop me for RM150. Finally, went to a paint and body shop owned by a friend and he sold to me for RM30. No bonnet available, so he gave me a wira trunk hood. Here goes...

Here... So what I used was 80, 240, 400, 800, 1000. KC asked to narrow down to 1500, 2000, then 2500 but there is none available here! Hard to find stuff in KK! What to do?
attachment.php


Some of the damages on the hood... For this scratch, I have sanded it down till if feels smooth to the touch... But it is still visible... why why why????
attachment.php


This is my post for today... Detailing fail :congrats:
I would like to clarify, this post is in no way defaming the products used. It is my first trial and I need tons of practice. Maybe I will finally get it when I am 60 years old... I believe the machine, the optimum products, are remarkable... The proof is pictures of ONR and OPC at work. This first time, I am totally fkd up. I never expected this... Want to upload pictures also malu la... But the reason I upload is that I really appreciate if you guys, detailers, and KC can give some input, correct me, educate me... I will not give up...


Thank you...

cONGRATS BUDDY

nothing went wrong - we appreciate your braveness & courage to share with us your 1st post & results

not to worry

this is not the end - is not destination- its is just a journey "captain Sparrow"

bro

paint wet sanding start minimum is 1500 ( with ONR as lube will be great ) - then move up to 2000 grits & finish at 2500 (best at 3000 )



tai lo 80 is for iron rod -


we will send u at once ( every is possible ) for whom who believe


cheerios
 
Veloc,

Congrate bro on your brave trial with full product & gadget.
Maybe could borrow your rotary machine la...
Until today, I only use ONR & Power Clear to clean the ride & parts.

Happy holiday... Sandakan Drag!!!
 
hi veloc. first of all congrats with your new detailing tool and product :cheers: you are brave to post, admire your spirit of detailing :adore: clear coat is not thick as a buku latihan, imagine our clear coat the thickness is only like a piece of newspaper that thick. so we have to be extra careful on it and be more gentle. and the most important thing is to be patient, dont care about the result how it would be, just be patient with the process you trying to archive. once you archive the thing you want, the result will turn out great by itself. im like you too, not to say im better than anyone, im still a learner and still learning now. i ripped off few times before during wet sanding process, that moment i know wet sanding isnt that easy thing to do. after all the hardwork learning wet sanding, non-stop practicing and slowly i gain more experience and finally i did it. some really deep scratches are cannot be remove by wet sanding, cause its alredi deep. why? 1st, our paint have clear coat which is the top layer, 2nd is the base coat (color coat) 3rd primer and 4th is the body panel. if the scratches alredi cut through the base coat the only way to fix is re-paint the whole panel. why kc said the sandpaper minimum you have to start with 1500grit to 3000grit? cause we must smoothen up the sand scratches so the compound will work easily for you, result really macam yes! i hope you could continue the wet sanding process and turn out great one day. tons of practice and must remember the panel must always wet during wet sanding. i'll be looking forward to your wet sanding process. must be better than me okay! believe yourself! if your heart is there, no matter how hard it will be, you'll archive it one day. my word of wisdom :ciao:
 
Thank u for your kind words and encouragement everyone. Will continue trying and hope can post nice results soon. Thanks kc for teaching tirelessly. Muyo u r rite. I was v impatient haha! Today my hands really ache from the sanding. Yesterday didn't feel it. Today my hand is killing me. Thanks again guys.

---------- Post added at 12:51 AM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 12:45 AM ----------

Although first time is not the best result and more about learning lesson, I hope people who is interested can set aside fear, don't b afraid and just giv it a shot!
 
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Hey bro...

Well done for taking the effort to try and sharing your experience with us, it sure takes time to do that, so thank you!

I also learned from your write-up, never knew 240 grit can be THAT aggressive.

Anyway, you should try starting from least aggressive first. Don't worry about restoring the panel to 100% condition, get comfortable with the machine, and the polish system that you are using, which in this case is Optimum.

When you mentioned the machine is trying to pull you. Which pad was this with? If it was the wool pad, then it is quite natural to have pulling, although it will still be controllable. On horizontal panels, sometimes you are able to hold the machine with one hand on a wool pad.

And from the pics of the 240 grit sanding marks. After you removed the tape, the scratches look white. This is probably because you have sanded through the clear coat AND base coat, at the same time, the areas where the sand paper didn't gouge through is glossy and dark. The contrast between the two colours made it look even more noticeable.

I took your photo and did some adjustments.

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240grit.jpg


You can literally see the depth of the 240 grit scratch. If you are sanding with 1500 grit, you wouldn't be able to see the depth of the scratch. Also, when sanding, remember to get the paint totally hazed, means sanding is uniform, but it's a good thing you didn't, or else, the whole panel will be white! haha!

Don't give up, I don't think you did anything wrong or failing 'epicly', it's just that you didn't have the right tools at hand and have a really really bad condition panel to start with. See if your bodyshop friend can help you re-spray the panel for cheap, or get a relatives car and do it for free/charge cheap to get the practice.

All the best!!
 
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wow welcome to detailing veloc. dun give up with just a small mistake. now u can learn from ur mistakes like i did and go somewhere wonderful =D
 
Hey pretty good effort despite how it all turned out in the end. At least you gave it a shot!

Plus, you had the common sense to buy a spare boot from the chop shop. That would never have occurred to me LOL! End up screwing up my own car instead! :adore:
 
Hey bro...

Well done for taking the effort to try and sharing your experience with us, it sure takes time to do that...

Thank you guys...

Fishbonezken... Actually, I didn't start with 80 grit... 80 grit is only for the part with the deteriorated double sided tape for the mini spoiler. Because I really cannot remove it even with 800. for all other areas, I started with 600. But I guess that is too much as well considering all of you ask me to start with 1000.

For place like these...
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I started with 240. An even with that, I canot sand it through! The scratch just wouldn't dissapear. I think this might have gone into the primer maybe??? It's really deep. Maybe cannot see through the photo because of the quality, but in real life it is really deep. Can see black colour inside the scratch. As if someone used the boot to operate a pan knife!
So guys, I want to ask here, what is the limit of paint correction as long as detailing is concerned. What is the maximum depth of scratch where sanding, compound and polish is able to remove? Clear coat only, colour coat, or primer?

---------- Post added at 05:57 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 05:51 PM ----------

[PIMPIN];1063554629 said:
Hey pretty good effort despite how it all turned out in the end. At least you gave it a shot!

Plus, you had the common sense to buy a spare boot from the chop shop. That would never have occurred to me LOL! End up screwing up my own car instead! :adore:

You did first time on your car? Haha... That is at least good. I am more dangerous. I never thought that real tries are totally different from seeing pictures of other people doing. So I straight away ask my friends whether can do on their car or not. I really thank God that EVERYONE I asked was inconvenient that day! Save me couple of hundreds to respray their paint for them! Haha...

---------- Post added at 06:12 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 05:57 PM ----------

When you mentioned the machine is trying to pull you. Which pad was this with? If it was the wool pad, then it is quite natural to have pulling, although it will still be controllable. On horizontal panels, sometimes you are able to hold the machine with one hand on a wool pad.

About this, the wool pad is the tough guy! It tried to pull and push me however I move it. The cutting pad also pull but is way better than the wool pad. There was one time when I moved close to the edge of the boot, the wool pad was a bit out of the boot. Then it gripped on the edge of the boot and almost throw me off. Seriously powerful machine. I literally had to wrestle with it.

After that experience, I searched online to find what is the reason and how to operate the rotary properly. Then only I found out that it is by nature than the rotary will tend to climb upwards while we move it to the right. So a little force to pull is down is necessary on the D-handle. While moving left, there is a tendency to move down. So one must exert some force upwards to keep is in place. And by practice, this becomes a second nature! Found a good pdf document that teaches this in google.
 
bro
remember some time back i had an accident in detailing - was just a careless & left my rotary Lever Lock on & rested on my left arm

P1090537.JPG



i didnt quit - i scream & bit my tongue till i complete the job

i thought it was the sign from the Almighty that i should stop detailing but thank God
it was a good lesson learn - be attentive when handling machinery - esp rotary its still a power too

Now i am wiser & God have use this incident to warn many others

Never take any thing for granted - Car Care Forums: Meguiar's Online
 
Yeah KC, I seen this picture before... Really thank God you are still persistent... Or else many would not be able to benefit from your work of art :biggrin:
 
Second rotary experience - EPIC slight improvement

Had some spare time today about 1.5 hours... So I tried again with the rotary. I must say that I am pleased this time. I could not remove the scratches (I really don't know why)... Still whole load of scratches, cobwebs swirls and discolouration at certain parts. But was able to handle the rotary better this time and this made me really happy :biggrin:... And the paint shines bigtime. It really does! Thank you Optimum Hyper Compound!!!

Thanks for some sources from google, teaching me the natural movement of rotary. "It tend to move up naturally when moving to the right and it tend to move downwards naturally when moving to the left. Try to just hold it and let it move and does the work instead of fighting against it. Most of all, try to keep the pad flat"! I had a big improvement in handling this time. Instead of wrestling with the machine, I just hold it a bit loosely. Still, I look forward when I can be trained properly by KC!

Here are some pictures.

From the wool and pad... See how much paint is taken off... All clear coat gone from my first time sanding with 240 grit the previous time. Had a really hard time washing them... :banghead:
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This is it... I love this as I even see myself in it! But as you can see, the amazing scratches persisted!!! :banghead:
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More scratches
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More...
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Horrible cobwebs...
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Some of the 50/50 shots. I don't have a good lamp yet... So could illuminate the whole boot.
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Really horrible cobwebs from the sanding... :banghead:
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These are some of the really deep scratches that I give up. Don't talk about compound. Even sanding with 1000 grit cannot remove it. Can anyone tell me why? Btw, it is deep enough to trap my fingernail when I run across it. Is this still possible to remove or at least mask? :confused:
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I circled this particular patch. The colour is a bit different. But what I want to highlight is that this part shines better than the rest. As if it still has some clear coat on it. :confused:
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What I did was...
Sanding with 800 grit followed by 1000 grit with ONR-QD as lube.
Then for the rotary, 2 passes OHC + wool; 2 passes OHP + wool; 2 passes OHC + pad; OHP + pad. (speed 1 spread, speed 2-2.5 work, back down to speed 1 to finish with gradually diminishing pressure)
It actually started to shine after long passes of OHC with wool pad itself. But the reflection isn't as sharp and crisp like KC, muyo, s1tl, and fishbonezken... Hahaha... Why? How to make it really sharp?

Cheers,
Veloc :biggrin:
 

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Second rotary experience - EPIC slight improvement
t was able to handle the rotary better this time and this made me really happy :biggrin:... And the paint shines bigtime. It really does! Thank you Optimum Hyper Compound!!!

It actually started to shine after long passes of OHC with wool pad itself. But the reflection isn't as sharp and crisp like KC, muyo, s1tl, and fishbonezken... Hahaha... Why? How to make it really sharp?

Cheers,
Veloc :biggrin:

great post .....keep them coming

attachment.php

this is a great rescue liow buddy as it was severly hacked & u turn in around

U need to know the thumb of the rule is what so ever can be felt by fingers nails is beyond level, unless u wouldn't mind to risk clear coat failure

u need to know this is a re painted hood some of those swirls has a deeper isolate cuts (aka RIDs)

from the 1st attempt u have gone to another level

:rolleyes:


How to make it really sharp? buy a knife sharpener

:biggrin:
FLAT IS THE SUCCESS right way of a HANDLING ROTARY
:driver:
KEEP THEM COMING BUDDY:wavey:
 
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Once again, thank you for your encouragement and tireless teaching KC... Will try to polish some clear-coated panels soon because it's quite some work cleaning the pads and wool from working on single stage paint! :biggrin:
 
Second rotary experience - EPIC slight improvement

Had some spare time today about 1.5 hours... So I tried again with the rotary. I must say that I am pleased this time. I could not remove the scratches (I really don't know why)... Still whole load of scratches, cobwebs swirls and discolouration at certain parts. But was able to handle the rotary better this time and this made me really happy :biggrin:... And the paint shines bigtime. It really does! Thank you Optimum Hyper Compound!!!

Thanks for some sources from google, teaching me the natural movement of rotary. "It tend to move up naturally when moving to the right and it tend to move downwards naturally when moving to the left. Try to just hold it and let it move and does the work instead of fighting against it. Most of all, try to keep the pad flat"! I had a big improvement in handling this time. Instead of wrestling with the machine, I just hold it a bit loosely. Still, I look forward when I can be trained properly by KC!

Here are some pictures.

From the wool and pad... See how much paint is taken off... All clear coat gone from my first time sanding with 240 grit the previous time. Had a really hard time washing them... :banghead:
attachment.php

attachment.php


This is it... I love this as I even see myself in it! But as you can see, the amazing scratches persisted!!! :banghead:
attachment.php


More scratches
attachment.php


More...
attachment.php


Horrible cobwebs...
attachment.php


Some of the 50/50 shots. I don't have a good lamp yet... So could illuminate the whole boot.
attachment.php

attachment.php

attachment.php


Really horrible cobwebs from the sanding... :banghead:
attachment.php


These are some of the really deep scratches that I give up. Don't talk about compound. Even sanding with 1000 grit cannot remove it. Can anyone tell me why? Btw, it is deep enough to trap my fingernail when I run across it. Is this still possible to remove or at least mask? :confused:
attachment.php

attachment.php


I circled this particular patch. The colour is a bit different. But what I want to highlight is that this part shines better than the rest. As if it still has some clear coat on it. :confused:
attachment.php



What I did was...
Sanding with 800 grit followed by 1000 grit with ONR-QD as lube.
Then for the rotary, 2 passes OHC + wool; 2 passes OHP + wool; 2 passes OHC + pad; OHP + pad. (speed 1 spread, speed 2-2.5 work, back down to speed 1 to finish with gradually diminishing pressure)
It actually started to shine after long passes of OHC with wool pad itself. But the reflection isn't as sharp and crisp like KC, muyo, s1tl, and fishbonezken... Hahaha... Why? How to make it really sharp?

Cheers,
Veloc :biggrin:

hi friend, please purchase a sanding block for wet sanding as our fingers will apply different pressure on the surface, so it might cant sand evenly.. please take note of this. as i experienced i have micro-marring on my surface during wet sanding caused by abrasive compounds (very tiny swirls appeared) tho i still doing some experiment on it but i will post it up for you to see once i done, hope it helps you. always start from minimum 1000grit and finish with 2000/2500grit then apply OHC with wool pad (speed 1 spread, speed 3 to work) followed by cutting pad with OHC again speed 1 to spread, speed 3 to work. last is polish with polishing pad with OHP speed 1 spread, speed 2 to work then down to speed 1 by lifting up your rotary a little, finish with black LC pad if necessary same procedure as polish.
 
Bro Veloc,

Good attempt as always, admire your perseverance. The part where you circled it probably without clear coat anymore. What makes it shiny is that you are polishing the base coat, so theoretically, it is now shiny single stage paint, haha, but it doesn't really work that way.

And how to get it looking sharp? keep buffing with the wool pad because the sanding marks are still there. Especially the OHC+Wool step, this is the step that's going to determine the majority of gloss and clarity/sharpness of the paint.

The subsequent steps such as OHP+Wool or OHP+pad wouldn't make much of a difference, since the problem that you are trying to rectify are the sanding marks.

OHP+Wool or OHP+Pad WOULD make a difference IF your compound was very old school traditional rocks in a bottle compound where it would haze up the surface. Since Optimum compounds and polishes have long working time and diminishing abrasives as well as very fine non diminishing abrasives, you can expect a glossy finish starting from the compound already.

For your test bonnet, keep CUTTING, in this case, I would use some rocks in a bottle compound, hunt for some Farecla G3, it's a popular product among bodyshops and should be available in your area. Use G3+Wool, and follow up with OHC+Wool (clean the pad after G3 step), but be adviced that the paint is pretty thin already from the sanding and multiple compounding with wool. So be prepared to cut through the clearcoat at any time, but hey, that's what test panels are for right.

You have to make a mistake so you can learn from it. You can make it now on the test panel rather than a customer's car, so... just POTONG!
 
hi friend, please purchase a sanding block for wet sanding as our fingers will apply different pressure on the surface, so it might cant sand evenly.. please take note of this. as i experienced i have micro-marring on my surface during wet sanding caused by abrasive compounds (very tiny swirls appeared) tho i still doing some experiment on it but i will post it up for you to see once i done, hope it helps you. always start from minimum 1000grit and finish with 2000/2500grit then apply OHC with wool pad (speed 1 spread, speed 3 to work) followed by cutting pad with OHC again speed 1 to spread, speed 3 to work. last is polish with polishing pad with OHP speed 1 spread, speed 2 to work then down to speed 1 by lifting up your rotary a little, finish with black LC pad if necessary same procedure as polish.

Yes bro Muyo... Thank you for your advice and tips... For the moment, I'm waiting to get my sanding block, and sand paper above 1000 grit (1500, 2000, 2500) from KC. Should be soon ^^

Bro Veloc,

Good attempt as always, admire your perseverance. The part where you circled it probably without clear coat anymore. What makes it shiny is that you are polishing the base coat, so theoretically, it is now shiny single stage paint, haha, but it doesn't really work that way.

And how to get it looking sharp? keep buffing with the wool pad because the sanding marks are still there. Especially the OHC+Wool step, this is the step that's going to determine the majority of gloss and clarity/sharpness of the paint.

The subsequent steps such as OHP+Wool or OHP+pad wouldn't make much of a difference, since the problem that you are trying to rectify are the sanding marks.

OHP+Wool or OHP+Pad WOULD make a difference IF your compound was very old school traditional rocks in a bottle compound where it would haze up the surface. Since Optimum compounds and polishes have long working time and diminishing abrasives as well as very fine non diminishing abrasives, you can expect a glossy finish starting from the compound already.

For your test bonnet, keep CUTTING, in this case, I would use some rocks in a bottle compound, hunt for some Farecla G3, it's a popular product among bodyshops and should be available in your area. Use G3+Wool, and follow up with OHC+Wool (clean the pad after G3 step), but be adviced that the paint is pretty thin already from the sanding and multiple compounding with wool. So be prepared to cut through the clearcoat at any time, but hey, that's what test panels are for right.

You have to make a mistake so you can learn from it. You can make it now on the test panel rather than a customer's car, so... just POTONG!

Bro Fishbonezken,

Thank you for your tips! Yeah probably should try one some more aggressive compounds. Or maybe I should sand it down more still. I will get my sanding block and high grit sand paper soon. About the clear coat, It is long gone. I have not going to burn it. It has burnt and diminished. Now it is just single stage. That's why I am having a hard time cleaning my pads and wool now. I'm trying to do a polish on any clear-coated panels now, maybe my own car.
 
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