Pros and cons of engine braking?

RENESIS VIII

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Well for me even in those circumstances most of the time I still brake first at least a little. Anyway it's up to you if you prefer to downshift first. If you're just concerned whether that will break your car, then at low rpms should still be ok but if you're driving fast in higher rpms then you should brake first.
just one...during high performance driving...engine braking with over-rev will destroy the engine...

other than that there is no problem at all
Will the clutch worn out faster from engine braking? My car engine is still stock.
 

Tom

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Will the clutch worn out faster from engine braking? My car engine is still stock.
Well if your revs are matched and clutch is applied properly then the wear on the clutch plate should equate regular wear and tear

Nothing wears the clutch more than situations like half clutch or releasing the clutch pedal too slowly during higher revs.





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RENESIS VIII

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Well if your revs are matched and clutch is applied properly then the wear on the clutch plate should equate regular wear and tear

Nothing wears the clutch more than situations like half clutch or releasing the clutch pedal too slowly during higher revs.





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I don't rev match when downshifting. Seems that I am doing it wrong.
 

Tom

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I don't rev match when downshifting. Seems that I am doing it wrong.
Yes, you should start adapting and applying it at your next drive Renesis

Each and every downshift requires a blip of the throttle
It is the only method to rev match

Failing which, these scenarios will definitely occur:

  • Sudden jerk
  • Accelerated wear
Of course one can get away by being patient and releasing the clutch pedal gently to cure jerk but let's face it, it is inefficient

Let me try to help,
Rev matching during downshift is simple and easy to do,

  1. Since you are already pressing the clutch and downshifting at the same time
  2. All you only need to do now is add one more step, blip the throttle
  3. As you press the clutch, simply give a quick jab to throttle
  4. Find your sweet spot,
    • add / reduce or throttle blip (the lower the gear the more the blip, vice versa)
    • timing is important, doing all at the same time AND at the same speed is key here
  5. Practice
  6. Tell us your findings


Good Luck
 

RENESIS VIII

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Yes, you should start adapting and applying it at your next drive Renesis

Each and every downshift requires a blip of the throttle
It is the only method to rev match

Failing which, these scenarios will definitely occur:

  • Sudden jerk
  • Accelerated wear
Of course one can get away by being patient and releasing the clutch pedal gently to cure jerk but let's face it, it is inefficient

Let me try to help,
Rev matching during downshift is simple and easy to do,

  1. Since you are already pressing the clutch and downshifting at the same time
  2. All you only need to do now is add one more step, blip the throttle
  3. As you press the clutch, simply give a quick jab to throttle
  4. Find your sweet spot,
    • add / reduce or throttle blip (the lower the gear the more the blip, vice versa)
    • timing is important, doing all at the same time AND at the same speed is key here
  5. Practice
  6. Tell us your findings


Good Luck
Thanks for the guide and help, Tom. I appreciate that.

I have actually tried something like this before when I am downshifting. Sometimes when the rev matches, the downshift transition is smooth. But there are also many times when the rpm is not high enough to rev match after I blip the throttle. So there is still some slight jerking as the RPM climbs slightly higher after I release the clutch.

I will try it again on tomorrow as I will be going for a long drive.
 

vr2turbo

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How does this apply to non-DSG auto transmission with tiptronic?? Is it ok to engine brake?
My wife's SUV is steptronic, so I use to drop gear to overtake, going down steep slope etc., less for engine braking.....:biggrin:
 

Tom

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Thanks for the guide and help, Tom. I appreciate that.

I have actually tried something like this before when I am downshifting. Sometimes when the rev matches, the downshift transition is smooth. But there are also many times when the rpm is not high enough to rev match after I blip the throttle. So there is still some slight jerking as the RPM climbs slightly higher after I release the clutch.

I will try it again on tomorrow as I will be going for a long drive.
Good reply, then your situation is extremely easy to fix.

You are either:

  1. Not jabbing the throttle hard enough. (note jab action, not press)
  2. Not releasing the clutch quick enough (therefore revs drop)
Not jabbing the throttle hard enough:
The rate at which the throttle is pressed is extremely important and determines how fast the engine revs climb. What we want is a sharp rev climb. Throttle response also differs vastly from car to car. So it's ever more important to know the throttle pedal.

Why we need a sharp rev climb:

  • To achieve the desired rpm range in the shortest time possible
  • To take advantage of the very short window / time we have between clutch on and clutch off.
The way an engine revs differ:

  • Linear Climb: When throttle is normally pushed / pressed
  • Sharp Climb: When throttle is jabbed / poked / prod / jerked
Not releasing the clutch quick enough:
This is a common problem, many drivers don't release the clutch quick enough. This delay results in drop of engine revs, therefore a mismatch in engine speed and wheel speed. - failure to capitalize on engine revs

A point to remember is when the throttle is blipped and when the rpm is at its highest desired range is when the clutch needs to be fully released. Never after or before.

try it Renesis
 

RENESIS VIII

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Good reply, then your situation is extremely easy to fix.

You are either:

  1. Not jabbing the throttle hard enough. (note jab action, not press)
  2. Not releasing the clutch quick enough (therefore revs drop)
Not jabbing the throttle hard enough:
The rate at which the throttle is pressed is extremely important and determines how fast the engine revs climb. What we want is a sharp rev climb. Throttle response also differs vastly from car to car. So it's ever more important to know the throttle pedal.

Why we need a sharp rev climb:

  • To achieve the desired rpm range in the shortest time possible
  • To take advantage of the very short window / time we have between clutch on and clutch off.
The way an engine revs differ:

  • Linear Climb: When throttle is normally pushed / pressed
  • Sharp Climb: When throttle is jabbed / poked / prod / jerked
Not releasing the clutch quick enough:
This is a common problem, many drivers don't release the clutch quick enough. This delay results in drop of engine revs, therefore a mismatch in engine speed and wheel speed. - failure to capitalize on engine revs

A point to remember is when the throttle is blipped and when the rpm is at its highest desired range is when the clutch needs to be fully released. Never after or before.

try it Renesis
Yeah, I understand what you mean by jabbing the throttle. Is like giving the throttle pedal a quick step or kick. Saw how those drivers did it before in Best Motoring videos. From what you have written, I felt that my error would be not jabbing the throttle hard enough. Probably because I am still not so familiar with how hard should I jab the throttle to achieve the desired RPM range.
 

vr2turbo

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Wah! learning a lot, Very soon bro. Renesis becomes terror of Ipoh......hhahhahahahhahahhaha
 

VoodooEx

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My CLA is using 7 speed DCT. In sports modes, It will downshift a few gears progressively as I applied brake to enter a corner. All these happen at the same time, you can feel the downshift from the inertial force. The sound of the exchaust is louder as it keep downshifting, giving further hint on when exactly the gear downshifted.

I believe using manual transmission, you can applied all type of brakes together as long as the gear shift is progressive as what many has pointed out.

My other manual car, I usually applied brakes and hardly using engine braking. It's a slow car anyway.
 

RENESIS VIII

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Wah! learning a lot, Very soon bro. Renesis becomes terror of Ipoh......hhahhahahahhahahhaha
Car is still mostly stock, can't become anything terror.

My CLA is using 7 speed DCT. In sports modes, It will downshift a few gears progressively as I applied brake to enter a corner. All these happen at the same time, you can feel the downshift from the inertial force. The sound of the exchaust is louder as it keep downshifting, giving further hint on when exactly the gear downshifted.

I believe using manual transmission, you can applied all type of brakes together as long as the gear shift is progressive as what many has pointed out.

My other manual car, I usually applied brakes and hardly using engine braking. It's a slow car anyway.
So, basically your CLA applies engine braking automatically without your input?

This is Tom the racer talking not Tom the owner. Haha!
He is always the race car driver isn't it?

I feel honored that he replies my question despite being a newbie here. Really appreciate his help a lot.
 

marv3

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So, basically your CLA applies engine braking automatically without your input?



.

Actually i think the more modern cars with DSG or auto tiptronic, will downshift itself when you step on the brake. My car also like that, but of course, it is not as fast as when you do it yourself. There is a lag between the time you brake and the time it downshift itself. Ok for when daily driving. But if spirited driving, change to manual mode and shift yourself is better....:driver::driver::driver:
 

vr2turbo

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My CLA is using 7 speed DCT. In sports modes, It will downshift a few gears progressively as I applied brake to enter a corner. All these happen at the same time, you can feel the downshift from the inertial force. The sound of the exchaust is louder as it keep downshifting, giving further hint on when exactly the gear downshifted.

I believe using manual transmission, you can applied all type of brakes together as long as the gear shift is progressive as what many has pointed out.

My other manual car, I usually applied brakes and hardly using engine braking. It's a slow car anyway.
With 7 speed it has closer ratio, that is why dropping a few gears is not a problem...
 

vr2turbo

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Actually i think the more modern cars with DSG or auto tiptronic, will downshift itself when you step on the brake. My car also like that, but of course, it is not as fast as when you do it yourself. There is a lag between the time you brake and the time it downshift itself. Ok for when daily driving. But if spirited driving, change to manual mode and shift yourself is better....:driver::driver::driver:
My wife drive the SUV in D, but when I drive it, normally goes to the + and - side......hhahhahhaha:biggrin:
 

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