A Classic Porsche At Spa Francorchamps Doing What A GT-R R35 Will Never Be Able To Do – Be A Handful of Fun

I HIGHLY doubt the GTR ever 'wanted' to be a porsche. GTR engineers set out and used the porsche as a benchmark and tried to beat it. Beating the porsche does not make one a 'replacement' per se.
Does Nadal beating FedEx a FedEx? Conclusion - biased auto journalism.

interesting terms of comparison... tennis and cars... hmmmm... Maybe we can compare the return of Maradona as a coach to the return of Schumacher... Could they fare the same??

Nissan using the Porsche and trying to beat it doesn't make it a Porsche... True...

Marketing department glorifying that fact.. Also true...

Conclusion... Nissan Beat Porsche..

But will it ever be a Porsche... Never...

Biased auto-journalism ... Maybe ... But rest in the fact that we didn't receive a single cent in advertising money to be biased...

So tell me... Why then has the auto-world been harping around the fact that Nissan beat Porsche if there was no intentions to beat Porsche in the first place ??

Just a point to ponder about... Go ahead... Shoot me...

Admittedly I don't have either Porsche nor GTR. But to say GTR will never be as fun as a Porsche is just stupid..
Different drivers prefer different cars to drive. Some drift, some rally, some seek to get the perfect lap times..
If u define sideways as the epitome of fun, the Americans will proudly say mustang is the best car ever. But is it really??
Its up to the driver la.. Enough said.

Oh you wrote that piece of work? nice.
Nissan beatin the porsche to show their engineering superiority BUT it STILL doesnt mean a GTR 'wants' to be a porsche. So the next incarnation of a porsche beating a nissan means the porsche WANTS to be a GTR?
Ponder it.

thanks ...

u have a point ... but isn't that what competition is all about ?? being better than the other ... ??

if a E63 AMG beats a M5.. does it mean the Benz is trying to be a BMW??

if a Ferrari drives better than Lotus.. does it mean the Ferrari is trying to be a Lotus ??

since u like tennis ...

If Mr.Federer beats Mr.Nadal on a clay court ?? Does it mean he's trying to be the king of clay courts ??

Competition can't be helped.. In fact it's healthy and great for us... It's just a point manufacturers use to prove superiority...

Ponder it... No disrespect intended...

Yes as a comparison its fine, but it nevers replaces the original. I appreciate certain porsche and especially the over engineered GTR. Thats just it - as a comparison.
A benz do not need to be a BMW - fact.
FedEx would love to be King of Clay Court, but King of Clay court comes and go....a Porsche forever stays a - Porsche. Or for that matter a Nissan.
Gnite.

agreed... somewhat... nite...

fun aint equal to Fast
Nissan GTR are made to be Fast car

RR layout is kind of dropoff since, that's why porsche put 4wd for real axle mounted engine posh.

Why try and compare a 1965 Porsche to a 2009 Nissan GT-R in terms of "fun" or driveability ?

Why not compare a 1969 Nissan GT-R vs the 1965 Porsche if you like the lack of driver aids ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAXGuD_f3Kw

How about a 1989 Nissan GT-R ? Or a 1999 Nissan GT-R ?

Being a handful is not the fast way around the track. The fastest drivers are the smoothest drivers. Scary cars scare the best drivers, and they will be slow.

hahaha... journalist got pawned! noobie journalist!

i dont know who can come with this stupid conclusion...dont make any sense... y dont wanna compare mcd at 1970 and kfc at 2010 make sense? no rite? just get over it that GTR beat the hell out porsche... everyone knows that... dont try to give grand father story such as 1965 la omg... get a life la..
y a faster GTR wanna be a slower porsche? izzt just coz of porsche driveability at 1965? its just lame... conclusion: porsche got beat and pls get over it..

and a Porsche will never be a Nissan GTR..

It's pretty obvious why the bias towards the Porsche... Look at the source of the website....
Axis of oversteer...
Isn't it for oversteer junkies?

It's just preferrence lah..
some like it hot some like it cold some like it in the pot nine days olds....

What does it says? It still keeps the person from being hungry.

Me and my ramblings.

let's just say that the 911 are for genuine purists who enjoys a good challenge and as an individual i'll always be smitten and lust for a 911. To sum it up. I want a GTR on the road and a 911 on the track... but if you can't have both the best of both worlds would be to have a 911 GTR lol...

Awesome stuff, this driver must be relishing every corner.
I would be crapping myself at the first corner already if I found myself in the driver's seat.

I don't understand the obsession with car fans and engineers on lap times, often sacrificing stuff like manual shifters, proper dampening, and accessible torque band, for stuff that will actually make driving on normal, accessible country lanes a blast.
Rather than booking an uninsurable, once in a while, and expensive trackday everytime you want to pose with a nurburgring record setter, its missing the point of driving.

I still think its Clarkson's fault for creating the public obsession with comparing lap times as the finality in judging a car.

For the life of me I wouldn't recommend a GTR in Malaysia till there is the proper systems support.
Good luck to those in Malaysia who bought the grey imported GTRs.

again...
fifth gear VS. top gear...
sushi VS. baked beans for breakfast...
for some comment just keep it to ur self...

Sorry i don't think it is a car comparison per se. Strip both old car bodyshell and you get basically old tech vs new tech. And in the end its all rather about how the sensation of driving an old car compared to a new one.

A "was" and "has been" is better left that way. You could debate about pedigree. Either old car is at the end of the spectrum. New cars are in the horizon. What was fast "was" fast. It isn't now. That is fact.

good to see I have everybody engaged in a proper discussion for once.. save one or two smart ass personal jibes...

well.. it's down to personal preference... honestly.. i can't stand how the world is obsessed with the GTR R35.. What's the big deal ?? Any car with tons of electronics will be quick.. Like how u give a plane wings and it will fly... like Duh !!

The Porsche should have never been compared to the GTR in the first place.. They are completely different animals... Nissan did have Porsche in its crosshairs when it first set out to create the R35.. And it beat it... With masses of electronic aids that it.. Lets see Nissan create a RR car and try and beat Porsche with that..

CrayZee - The RR layout was never a failure.. It's just what makes a Porker a Porker.. 4wd is not used in all Porker models now.. Just take a look at the mighty GT3RS...

Sean Morris - The Skylines are fun .. Loads of fun .. I'd have a R32.. R33 or R34 anyday.. But with Nissan dropping the Skyline name for the R35.. It created a whole new model and started a whole new ball game.. I remember reading a Nissan engineer say that the R35 was never intended to be a replacement model for the R34.. It's a entirely new creation.. And plus the Porkers were winning races and creating waves around the world before people even knew what a GTR was.. So no reason to compare there..

And thank you Dawg for seeing the video in its intended form ...

Hand me the keys to a Porker anyday.. I'd sell it and buy a E46 M3 CSL..

A porker any day as it's a very rewarding car once one understand the hadling dynamics / traits of the car.

Very fine line of sling shooting out of a corner for the fastest lap time and having the rear end making friends with the armco.
It's one car that reward drivers that push it to the limits as opposes to one just pottering or pussy footing around corners.

Lusting for a 911 RSR... or better still a Spyder LMP car....

My brain likes the GTR but my heart will always fall for the 911. Would never trade one for the other. No one buys a Porsche and worries about the GTR. They buy the Porsche because they just like Porsche. They will still prefer the Porsche even if the GTR can lap the Porsche by the 3rd lap at Sepang! Non-issue.

I once told a friend who owned a Lambo Diablo that a 911 will run rings around his monster. He just looked at me and said "I know and it's quite alright.. I still love my Diablo" One day he gave me the keys and then I realized what the Lambo fuss was all about. I am a Lambo fan to this day.

In all fairness,car of this caliber (I presume this might be some early 911 like those first rs 2.7 or so) should be compared hand in hand with a Hakosuka 2000-GT or a Kenmeri GTR and I would put some money to say that both cars would give the driver a unique experience.

However,being a good journalist in my opinion is the ability to convey your own feelings in an article.I agree this article sound tad biased but for those who bash keshy here,the man's got a point,and a valid one at it.

the guy driving the gtr35 here in sepang looks like he's having fun-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3Ox-SeiCqE&feature=channel_page



and look at his steering work here-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHdeQuZunvU

911 sucks 911 sucks 911 sucks.
GTR rocks GTR rocks GTR rocks.
Keshy you ought to be bashed for being a 911 supporter. hehehe...

Let's troll this article.
Bwahaha....

the fact is..Nissan wont be a Porsche..and Porsche wont be a Nissan..both have advantage and disadvantage..both will try be the best among each other..but for me, we can feel the super car drive-like as cheap as 50K(UK), GT-R (except Malaysia OVER-price)..huhu

Frankly the GTR is just a technological achievement and that is it. It has almost limitless capability and probably could drive itself if it was a bit smarter. All of that for a very reasonable price. But it doesn't really excite me. Tossing a car that weighs 1.8 tonnes on a track can't be that much fun but then again its down to personal choice.

I am not a great fan of a porker either by virtue of having an engine at the rear. I think its fundamentally incorrect. Lets be honest the 911's ancestry leads to the VW Bug. I read the book on the Bug and the engine was placed at the rear to give better interior space for the rear passengers and also to give better traction during the winters as there would be more weight pressing down on the rear tires. Also back then the engine wasnt that heavy as it was only a 1.3 liter engine. now its a 3.8 liter!

The GTR would be the car of choice in order for a mortal to get around a track as fast as possible. For the driving gods of the world the fun choice would probably be the porker

Its ironic how the guy who posted these videos now says that GTR should have never been compared with a 911 and are different animals.
Definitely agree with that.

But he was the one who posted a bunch videos and explicitly stated as a heading that GTR will never be as fun as a Porsche when those videos were all Porsche and nothing to do with a GTR..

Save face? Go figure.

Wow for once comments are actually exciting to read. Its always been the same few know it alls who seem to have something to say in every post, just like how Schumacher used to win at every race and made F1 dull like hell

save face ?? more like saving my ass ... there are people who want to beat me up for this post ... oh well ... GTR still sucks ... haha... = P

i dunno abt you but i think the guy driving the gtr35 here in sepang looks like he’s having loads of fun-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3Ox-SeiCqE&feature=channel_page




and look at his steering work here from another track day, doesnt look dull or boring to me at all-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHdeQuZunvU

And the Porsche fanboy speaks.. Honestly who cares what you like or don't like? If I like Potong; so be it!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3Ox-SeiCqE&feature=channel_page
Hahaha so ironic the number plate on that car....

To sum it up the GTR is without doubt the fastest car point A to B for the money...
But if you want something reward and scare yourself shiteless....
It's the porker...

Dont' get me wrong, many Porsche drivers, owners are now hooked on the GTR but end of the day what Keshy says and i wholeheartedly agree that the 911 is the car to tame. If you can do that you'll be an even faster driver on the GTR.

I would love to hear the comments of the GTR driver as he would be the few people locally that have pushed both 911 and GTRs to the extreme limits and have raced at professional level.

This article just totally biased on Porsche, lame.

Please have some constructive article which is interesting in the same time.

By the way, I love the looks of Porsche but when comes to power and handling, yea Skyline GTR.

This reminded me of an episode where Tiff Needell battled the Audi RS4 head to head against the E92 M3. He said it himself that the Audi (4WD) is quicker and more composed compared to the M3 (RWD), but the M3 was a hell of a load more of fun.

Thats why people deemed the M3 as a pure driver's car.

I think it relates to this article..somewhat. Just my 2 cents. Peace.

i lol at nissan fanboy....biased journalist bla bla bla...

@ keshy - "And plus the Porkers were winning races and creating waves around the world before people even knew what a GTR was.. So no reason to compare there.."

Are you sure ? Really sure ? Just because a car was used almost exclusively in the Japanese market, doesn't mean it has no history, no race history, and can be discounted with a single statement.

The Skyline name has been around since 1957, and they were raced in Japan. The Skyline GT-R 1969 -1973.

Nissan has plenty of race history. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_R380

The R35, although Nissan does not want to call it a Skyline, its mostly politics. Thank the marketing guys for that. I can tell you that the original concepts for the R35 came from some of the original Nissan Skyline GT-R guys.

Lets not forgot the Nissan 240Z , the 510's, and other Nissan cars though the years.

Can a Nissan do what that Porsche does. Yes it can. Can a R35 GT-R do what that 1965 Porsche does ? How about a 997.2 turbo ?

A 997.2 turbo is never going to be a 1965 Porsche, and most people that would buy them and drive them, wouldn't want that anyway.

i remember reading sport compact magazine where it vist nissan in japan....and somewhere along the articles there a line that goes"by this time nissan still have porsche poster on the wall"

keshy i agree with you and yes if you headlines your entry as"why porsche is losing ou to nissan" or "why skyline is better than porker"

everybody here will go like"hell yeah teach em kraut a lesson"

or

"go go go nissan"...

so keshy next time make sure your entry will be title"nissan gtr pawn em all!!!"

okthnxbye.

Nissan G T R _SHIFT_GODZILLA

Hold on a sec here, was the nissan GTR created to go sideways or drives like a handful in the first place?
I dont want to sound like a troll but the title IS a bit misleading, no?

and if i'm not mistaken the porker also has a 4wd version rite? hmmmm.... go figure!

I guess we should respect Japanese as competent manufacturer of racing cars too. Remember 787B that win at LeMans. It's so good that the FIA banned their engine next year. Nissan and Mazda or Honda have their own identity and they will never want to be a Porsche.

Porsche only went 4WD with the 911 in the 90s

i love how I have everyone engaged in conversation here... Im gonna start writing more biased articles... Doesn't matter if I get "pawned" ... At least we have some interesting conversation going on...

Sean Morris - You said it yourself ... The GTR was exclusive in Japan.. My statement said the Porsche was winning races around the world when the GTR was better known only in Japan... Never did I say the Skyline has no racing history.. Of course it does.. The Skyline's whopped ass in the Australian Touring Car Series (or whatever they call it) and it got banned.. How cool is that ?? A straight six beating V8's... So fact is... I mentioned Porsche's were winning races around the world... But at that time the GTR was better known in their home turf than anywhere else if compared to the Porsche's... So what's your point? Im confused....

Google GTR's racing history and get back to us ... Got more "biased" articles coming up...

Never seen people discuss it as excited as this. Both cars need balls to push it to the limit. but i can say porkers need more than balls to tame it....haha. nice discussion here....

Well usually i'm never in a bashin mood - i'm too old for this anyway but the replies are strayin very far from the initial posts.
If a journalist wants to compare 2 cars, please make sure the videos are relevent MEANING at least post something that SHOWS both products else you are technically 'journalistically incorrect'.
Now if i were to show a 599 blazin nordschliefe ALONE and says this shows it beats so and so and so brand isnt as fast, its pretty decieving IMO.
As for the fanboy remarks, i'm sure anyone with commonsense can see who are and who aren't - BTW imma national car fanboy :)

dood.. think the comparo between the Porsche and GTR has been done a number of times.. Even Bruno Senna got behind the wheel of both the cars and did a comparo.. On the topic of fun.. Such subjectivity is hard to be measured by a single driver or more.. It all comes down to preference..

imma national car fanboy as well ... i'll just never buy one again ... they all just seem to be on a mission to kill you and don't make the slightest effort to save you... Airbags as options ?? I guess the lives of their customers are an option as well... Even the seatbelts would be missing if they weren't a requirement...

Just an opinion...

Hmm..ok..its your article and its a free speech world anyway. 1965 911 more fun than a R35 because the R35 cant hang its butt out of a corner.

appreciate your comments dude ...

Keshy what ever has been said and done thanks for sharing the videos. I love them to bits.
It's just madness how the driver can counter steer on the exit of Eau Rogue and again correcting himself mid way of the super fast left Blanchimont.... in the qualifying video in heavy traffic.
You could see him bullying the Ford Lotus Cortinas and Jag E Types

I wish i have his reflexes...

Don't worry dude, one have to actually ride shot gun in that 911 at Spa to realise what sort of commitment it takes to drive one of these babies.

Watching further i didn't realise Mr Caresani are running ancient Cross Ply tyres....
But it's interesting to note how far a 997.5 have move on...
It's so darn stable as opposed to these ancient suspension with torsion bar for springs and swing axles...

Actually he should have just engineered his car's steering wheels where to turn right it turn lefts and vice versa.

@keshy "I would love to see a Nissan GT-R R35 driver handle this. If you still need convincing, there are four more videos posted after the jump. Conclusion: a Nissan will never be a Porsche"

Some Porsches aren't Porsches. 914 , 924 are just a few that come to mind.

Does Nissan set its sights on Porsche ? Yes they do. Do they want to do similar stuff for less money, and the Japanese way ? Yes they do.

An R35 Nissan GT-R may not hang out and slide all around a track like the car in the video, but by the same token a new 997.2 will not do that either. And in that case then a Porsche is not a Porsche.

If you like hanging cars out and sliding, check out Formula Drift, check out D1. See how many Nissans are used in that series. Why do people use Nissans for drifting ?

As far as drivers and being able to handle cars at least three F1 drivers seem to like GT-R's.

http://www.2009gtr.com/2009/12/f1-champion-jensen-button-in-r35-gt-r.html

http://www.2009gtr.com/2010/02/formula-1-driver-and-his-nissan-gt-r.html

http://www.2009gtr.com/2010/02/virgin-racings-driver-timo-glock.html

I think those three guys could handle that P car in the video...whats anyone else think?

I get the gist of what Keshy trying to say in the video and I dont think he have any malicious blatant fan-boyism to prove here.

When he said GTR I think he meant it in general that the R35 is a technological laden rocketship and this raceprepped Porsche 911 is a chest haired drivers car.

While some people find fun in getting the fastest lap time,some might just relish the idea of having to counter steer through Blanchimont and taking Eau Rouge with balls hanging on the forehead. This article in my opinion is just a direct comparison to that and not to provoke GTR purist to do some Porsche bashing.

I love to see all of us coming out for a discussion like this,why not someone write an article on the GTR as well.

Apparently any articles on the R35 that precedes this will get bashed. Job well done hahaha.

BabyGodzillaGti-R - That was what I was trying to say .. But I guess it came across as provocative.. But if that's what it takes to get everybody to come out and speak their minds.. Then I'm going to keep doing it ... It's great really ... But in the same way that you think the Porsche is good at what it does in the video.. I do think that the R35 is really good at the one thing it was meant to do - go stupendously fast ...

Sean Morris - Dude.. I always have followed Formula Drift and D1 .. Why do they always use Nissans and whatever cars they do ?? Cost .. Simple ... Such cars are cheaper to maintain over expensive Germans.. But take a look at international drift series around the world and you will see Porsche's ... *and with a locked differential, any car will be a handful*

And so what if a Formula One driver owns one (Jenson sold his a while ago) .. Schumacher used to drive a Fiat (though Im sure he drives a Mercedes now).. What does that say about Fiat's based on your point ? But just to ram home the point that electronics are boring.. Schumacher also owns a FXX .. One of the most electronically stripped cars ... Should I say now that even World Champions could do without a electronic leash on them when they really wanna stand on it ? That's just my opinion .. Electronics are boring .. And if you like it so be it .. I just like my car to wiggle her ass once in a while ... Especially if it's a fat ass.. ha..

-Diablo- - Exactly my point .. Thank you ...

Lancewood - Not really .. Check out the Mine's R34 video .. You'll meet like minded R35 lovers there .. or write us a GTR article.. Would be glad to publish it..

hi keshy... i'm sorry if my previous comments looks a bit provocative...

my point is that if we are really car enthusiasts or in to cars, we don't need to be biased... we should love all great cars alike.......

even if it's ugly, beautiful, fast, slow, broke world records, broke lap times or anything for the matter.....

just my 2 cents...... and i love both the porsche and the GTR..... peace!

agreed ... peace ...

so Keshy,what are you waiting for.moar article pl0x.
lets up the tempo for this march.hope to read great things : D

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