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Old 10-14-2011, 10:43 PM   #31
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Default Re: Beams NA engine able to mod up to 200HP on wheel NA?

just want to comment ok taikors...

errr...the topic says Beams NA engine able to mod up to 200HP on wheel NA?

maybe it's better if we can enlight bro Sil80-13's with answers on maybe:
1) yes, Beams NA can be modded to more than 200whp
2) how to do it like some of us have answered
3) the cost either less than 15k or more like some of us have answered.
4) where to source the parts
5) how long can the engine lasts?

maybe we can discuss on only Beams NA and how about to make it more than 200whp with pros n cons and maybe:
1) we can compare with other great NA engines such as the K20A, but he's in this Altezza forum now, so he might be interested with Altezza's 3SGE NA although yes, K20A is more powerful and easy to source the performance parts. Maybe we can see bro Sil80-13's in the Type R forum if he's interested with the K20A engine. Let say if we put a 240whp 3SGE with a 240whp K20A side by side on a track, who will win? who knows? ...put the drivers' skills aside.maybe K20A will win in straights (lighter), but maybe 3SGE will win in corners (better handling perhaps, I don't know, never driven a K20A car before but I'm sure the handling is superb too) on highway? for sure the car with a smart tag will win over a car with a touch n go or ' Tunai Sahaja' (whp doesn't count, how fast and how often can we go on normal roads? daily drive?).

2) for sure 1jz is an excellent engine, I would love to put it in my engine bay for an instant power but some of us might prefer the 3SGE NA, love to mod the less than 200whp engine slowly and get the excitement in incresing the horsepower of the 3SGE NA bit by bit (more expensive though), and of course the topic is about modding a 3SGE NA to whp or more with the 15k budget. Again, let say if we put a 240whp 3SGE with a 240whp 1JZGTE side by side on a track, who will win? who knows? Maybe 1JZGTE will win in straights (lighter), and I think 3SGE will win in corners (more balance perhaps)..again put the drivers' skill aside.


So, we don't know what the purpose of bro Sil80-13's to mod a 3SGE until 200whp or more. For daily use? For fun? maybe he can answer.

As for me, I'd really love to have my 3SGE to get 200whp or more, but it all depends on the budget and the willingness to spend quite a lot of money while we can source for other engines and gain instant 'whp'.

So..peace ya...

Last edited by G221; 10-14-2011 at 10:53 PM.
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Old 10-15-2011, 12:04 AM   #32
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Default Re: Beams NA engine able to mod up to 200HP on wheel NA?

those guys saying its hard (costly) to get it done are all tezza sifu. including me. lol. we are not here to bash tezza.we sincerely know it can be done too. but we are also advising based on experience. if u want, the answer is already there, cams, pulley , vpro, high comp piston, injector, fuel pump, intake, CAI, full xhorst, max timing advance on mapping, p n p. get it done still cannot exceed 200whp. i potong!!! but still back to the most fundamental question. worth it? but if money is only secondary to TS. y not?
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Old 10-15-2011, 01:14 AM   #33
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Default Re: Beams NA engine able to mod up to 200HP on wheel NA?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 220mph View Post
those guys saying its hard (costly) to get it done are all tezza sifu. including me. lol. we are not here to bash tezza.we sincerely know it can be done too. but we are also advising based on experience. if u want, the answer is already there, cams, pulley , vpro, high comp piston, injector, fuel pump, intake, CAI, full xhorst, max timing advance on mapping, p n p. get it done still cannot exceed 200whp. i potong!!! but still back to the most fundamental question. worth it? but if money is only secondary to TS. y not?
Agree!

Sorry not BEAMS user here. But a fan. If 4AGE 1.6 L can mod up to 250 ps (~220 ps on wheels), why not BEAMS? Just see worth or not. Cams is the key. Together with tonnes of fine tuning. Squeezing every drop of power from every area. It's back to worth it or not.

Conclusion, if got $$ = anything also can.
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Old 10-15-2011, 03:13 PM   #34
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Default Re: Beams NA engine able to mod up to 200HP on wheel NA?

Quote:
Originally Posted by G221 View Post
just want to comment ok taikors...



2) for sure 1jz is an excellent engine, I would love to put it in my engine bay for an instant power but some of us might prefer the 3SGE NA, love to mod the less than 200whp engine slowly and get the excitement in incresing the horsepower of the 3SGE NA bit by bit (more expensive though), and of course the topic is about modding a 3SGE NA to whp or more with the 15k budget. Again, let say if we put a 240whp 3SGE with a 240whp 1JZGTE side by side on a track, who will win? who knows? Maybe 1JZGTE will win in straights (lighter), and I think 3SGE will win in corners (more balance perhaps)..again put the drivers' skill aside.

So, we don't know what the purpose of bro Sil80-13's to mod a 3SGE until 200whp or more. For daily use? For fun? maybe he can answer.

As for me, I'd really love to have my 3SGE to get 200whp or more, but it all depends on the budget and the willingness to spend quite a lot of money while we can source for other engines and gain instant 'whp'.

So..peace ya...
a 240hp 3S and a 240hp 1JZ is not equal the powerband is different;the torque is different.
I choose a 1JZ over the 3S....stock engine v mod engine which is more reliable?

End of day its what you want.

POWER = TORQUE x RPM

Cams shift the torque and/or power band up the rev range a 288/288 set probably between 5000 and 9000....how many of us can constantly keep the engine ticking at the sweet spot even during gear shifts

just a short hypothetical story!!!

Standard lift or high lift...being greedy ..go for high lift. Suddenly oh shit! now I gotta do the shimming and cam pulleys and cam timing and f..k! change valve springs.
Damn! now no vvti gotta get an ECU.

Pistons see stock pistons can or not....or later

someone says wanna pull 9000 revs; gotta balance engine,fly wheel and clutch plate.Can i risk using stock bearings??

extractor; to port and polish or not??

Oil pump?

like that my aircon how ah???(FYI:I ran 304/304 high lift cams WITH aircon)

This is even before your engine started.

TUNING:Intake...throttle body....enough fuel or not(injectors)...fuel pump;fuel regulator

Performance parts manufacturers assume you know what you are doing and HAVE ALL the necessary supporting parts.

A chain is only as strong as its weakest link and the risk exists that the engine can blow during tuning.Chances are the guy who assembles the engine and tuner are not the same person.
So good luck!!

SIMPLE FEAT its NOT!

---------- Post added at 02:22 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 01:38 PM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by 220mph View Post
those guys saying its hard (costly) to get it done are all tezza sifu. including me. lol. we are not here to bash tezza.we sincerely know it can be done too. but we are also advising based on experience. if u want, the answer is already there, cams, pulley , vpro, high comp piston, injector, fuel pump, intake, CAI, full xhorst, max timing advance on mapping, p n p. get it done still cannot exceed 200whp. i potong!!! but still back to the most fundamental question. worth it? but if money is only secondary to TS. y not?
Dont say 'i potong' so fast, dangerous! ...What happens if you give all the parts to an inexperience mechanic???

Where got guarantee output wan....'guarantee sampai rosak' comes to mind.....hahaha..joke only

---------- Post added at 03:13 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 02:22 PM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by xtremeleo View Post
wow, group flames, lol

please enlighten me again on how bigger mass up front doesnt affect the original handling again? for street application now, can? as long as i remember, even a supra for GTJ used a 3s for racing purpose, i wonder what for?

if a 200hp at the so called wheel beams had been done, maybe sumbody shud explain how to do it to the ts? most posts i read deviated from giving a straight answer. like i said, iam here to read jer, simply because iam not using the same engine..
JGTC uses 3S up to 2004/2005 for GT300 and uses the 3UZ in the Supra for the GT500...2 engines same body....same purpose different means...its in the suspension and transmission set-up.

By your argument the ISF and LFA should have 'horrendous handling' compared to the RS200....errr they share the same wheelbase and width.(ISF and RS; the LFA has shorter wheelbase)
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Old 10-15-2011, 03:35 PM   #35
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Default Re: Beams NA engine able to mod up to 200HP on wheel NA?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 220mph View Post
those guys saying its hard (costly) to get it done are all tezza sifu. including me. lol. we are not here to bash tezza.we sincerely know it can be done too. but we are also advising based on experience. if u want, the answer is already there, cams, pulley , vpro, high comp piston, injector, fuel pump, intake, CAI, full xhorst, max timing advance on mapping, p n p. get it done still cannot exceed 200whp. i potong!!! but still back to the most fundamental question. worth it? but if money is only secondary to TS. y not?
To sum up.....
200whp is no issue on NA..... it is just how much willing to spend... is the key...
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Old 10-15-2011, 04:55 PM   #36
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Default Re: Beams NA engine able to mod up to 200HP on wheel NA?

Dont say 'i potong' so fast, dangerous! ...What happens if you give all the parts to an inexperience mechanic???

Where got guarantee output wan....'guarantee sampai rosak' comes to mind.....hahaha..joke only



Would be a very palia tuner if can't achieve the mention power with the given parts . Lol
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Old 10-15-2011, 05:24 PM   #37
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Default Re: Beams NA engine able to mod up to 200HP on wheel NA?

Hi everybody,

sorry if I missed out on some comments, didn't exactly go through every bit of it. Just wanna share on the question of can 3S-GE Beams achieve 200 whp, right ?

Well, I'm using the redtop 3SGE Beams with single VVTi & it's producing 185 ps@wheel with only e-manage blue installed. The rest is the usual bolt on stuff like open pod air filter, fuel regulator & exhaust system. Other than that, everything else is bone stock.

My initial target was also 200 whp. It can be achieve with a pair of cams; that's what my tuner told me. So I plan to do that when I go for a complete rebuild on the engine; when I have enough money of course...Hehehe.

The Altezza version has dual VVTi, mine being the 1st gen, only has single VVTi. On paper, the Altezza version has an extra 10 ps (210 ps) over my older model (200 ps) at crank.

Using 4 throttle will also probably raise some ponnies.

---------- Post added at 05:24 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 05:19 PM ----------

Please check out the Beams Owner Group http://www.beams-redtop.com/ website for more info & there's even a section for the Dyno registry.

BTW, that's my rusty bucket (orage Corona) in the website.
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Last edited by 2 Old 2 Rusty; 10-16-2011 at 11:14 AM. Reason: typo
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Old 10-15-2011, 05:53 PM   #38
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Default Re: Beams NA engine able to mod up to 200HP on wheel NA?

thanx for the useful info 2O2R
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Old 10-15-2011, 07:12 PM   #39
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Default Re: Beams NA engine able to mod up to 200HP on wheel NA?

way to go 1jtezza!!! even I blur blur..very informative....

anyhow...end of discussion.

future project i am gonna tune up my 1j torque levels above supra standard n go trackie with it. will need u to test drive when its done. o yea

peace!

Last edited by green; 10-16-2011 at 01:41 AM.
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Old 10-16-2011, 08:34 AM   #40
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Default Re: Beams NA engine able to mod up to 200HP on wheel NA?

Wah uncle ,

When ppl ask you opinion you so detaily iron out...........when i ask you opinion you were like say a little bit and not say a little bit ........what lar you.




Anyway u are good and you the man ......even me also blur blur what u explain cos is way too in depth . Only ppl like KCH (you know KCH) will understand what u said

hahahahahahahahahaahahaha



cheers


p.s project U rear rotor hahahahahahahahaha

Last edited by stepwyew; 10-16-2011 at 08:41 AM.
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Old 06-28-2013, 05:19 AM   #41
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Default Re: Beams NA engine able to mod up to 200HP on wheel NA?

Reviving this thread for a couple of reasons:
1) We've done it! On my road car and with an engine that has completely stock internals (apart from a pair of cams)
2) I keep getting notifications from ZTH that I haven't posted anything in a long while

Was it worth it? I guess so. Based on the heaps of fun I've had on track and the occasional touge with my buddies.

Also because thus far, the engine has been problem free.
Power with reliability an oxymoron? Time will tell...I've had almost 2 years of fun on this setup.

All I can say is you need a good tuner. Someone who can chart out your "to do list" based on the purpose you desire for your car. Mine was orchestrated by man behind Riyoz Racing...
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Old 06-28-2013, 09:05 AM   #42
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Default Re: Beams NA engine able to mod up to 200HP on wheel NA?

Good for you!!

Manual Transmission ,I suppose?

What degree cams?....VVTi disabled or not?...ECU?

Powerband and consumption??
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Old 06-28-2013, 12:52 PM   #43
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Default Re: Beams NA engine able to mod up to 200HP on wheel NA?

Sharing......
Mine is currently 190whp and 20kg/mm torque .. with only mild Toda 268 deg cam with vvti and Powerfc.
This setup has been very reliable with 2 time attack event and 4 trackdays in sepang. Engine mileage 170,000 km and strong as mule ..ha ha ha
Fuel consumption 50% city and 50% highway I get about 430-480km on full tank. Powerband kicks in around 4,000 rpm. With this combo what I have notice is the torque has improved across the rev range making it very good to drive in city jams.... Surprisingly can cruise on highway as low as 60km/h on 6 gear without jerking.

Overall happy with the result and thanks to Riyoz racing for advise and tuning.
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Old 06-28-2013, 01:38 PM   #44
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Default Re: Beams NA engine able to mod up to 200HP on wheel NA?

Finally the "powerful stock Altezza" opens his 'heart' lol

For those stock Beams Altezza trying to match his dyno figures...his secret is out haha
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Old 06-30-2013, 07:49 AM   #45
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Default Re: Beams NA engine able to mod up to 200HP on wheel NA?

Most powerful stock 3-SGE to date Mr. SEG's silver bullet.

Mine's a MT with toda 290/280 cams.
Though vvti is disabled, car still feels torquey.
No lumpy idle nor jerking at low revs.
Should have installed higher cams instead?
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