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Old 04-22-2010, 04:19 PM   #91
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Default Re: 4g93T gsr engine rebuild, need advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by jinkl View Post
very true
who said u cant run 3bar daily drive, can laaa

use compression 6:1 lol lariii lariiiii
turbo before spool up,engine lame like hell,or use compression ratio 9.1 with VP racing Q16 120octaine also not bad,but u must pay rm30 per liter for daily 3 bar~
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Old 04-22-2010, 04:53 PM   #92
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Default Re: 4g93T gsr engine rebuild, need advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by goo_61t View Post
We are talking bout pump fuel, ur fren running 1.5 - 1.6 bars on methanol..
compare the knock threshold between pump fuel and methanol.

no doubt we can run 1.6 bar on standard internals provided it's properly tuned and i doubt it can run with the stock ecu ignition mapping,the ignition mapping must be cut down a bit in few areas where the engine tend to knock.. with safc can;t do anything bout it..but can be touched up with e-manage, less ignition = less power u can achieve much more power with stronger internals

it's not boost that kill an engine, it's detonation that kill's engine.
That's why... U read the emanage on 1.6 bar.... proper ignition retard at full boost + sufficient fuel...
Of course stronger internals can go further...

As always, my quote is, not about how much boost ur engine can take. It's how much horsepower U want, then mod accordingly...


Quote:
Originally Posted by contreasjun27 View Post
I love your your quote hehe " It's not boost that kill an engine, it's detonation that kill's engine "
I like that too.. BTW, jinkl is alwez funny... He's the sifu, not me.
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Old 04-22-2010, 06:03 PM   #93
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Default Re: 4g93T gsr engine rebuild, need advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by goo_61t View Post
ahahaha..daymmnnnn...
6:1 compression huhu sudden recall my wiseco that i sold last time..so damn low the compression hakhakhak can make it as ash ray bai ahahahaha
LOL ash ray haha

---------- Post added at 06:03 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 06:02 PM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by speed2horizon View Post
That's why... U read the emanage on 1.6 bar.... proper ignition retard at full boost + sufficient fuel...
Of course stronger internals can go further...

As always, my quote is, not about how much boost ur engine can take. It's how much horsepower U want, then mod accordingly...

I like that too.. BTW, jinkl is alwez funny... He's the sifu, not me.
both of you also my sifu hehe...
just that Jinkl ignore me more
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Old 04-22-2010, 06:24 PM   #94
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Default Re: 4g93T gsr engine rebuild, need advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by contreasjun27 View Post
LOL ash ray haha

---------- Post added at 06:03 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 06:02 PM ----------



both of you also my sifu hehe...
just that Jinkl ignore me more

Jinkl can answer everything... He knows everything...
But 1 thing for sure he dunno...

Ask him about PS POWERSRPOT... He can't answer... Neither do I ..... Muahahhaha.... Jin, ada betul kah..?
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Old 04-22-2010, 08:18 PM   #95
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Default Re: 4g93T gsr engine rebuild, need advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by speed2horizon View Post
Jinkl can answer everything... He knows everything...
But 1 thing for sure he dunno...

Ask him about PS POWERSRPOT... He can't answer... Neither do I ..... Muahahhaha.... Jin, ada betul kah..?
LOL pretty much I think only that fella in speed syndicate can only answer that..
they are too secretive hehe
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Old 04-22-2010, 11:09 PM   #96
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Default Re: 4g93T gsr engine rebuild, need advice

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Originally Posted by contreasjun27 View Post
LOL pretty much I think only that fella in speed syndicate can only answer that..
they are too secretive hehe
Whatever... lolx....
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Old 04-22-2010, 11:30 PM   #97
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Default Re: 4g93T gsr engine rebuild, need advice

amel666, hows the outcome of the rebuild? all good ?
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Old 04-23-2010, 10:00 AM   #98
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Default Re: 4g93T gsr engine rebuild, need advice

Specify more on your TD04. Bigger fin means which fin..? What size..?

The front fin is bigger. Size is the same as S14 turbine fin.


252/264/272/288 can all be used for street... It's Malaysia here. It all depended on how much one individual can take the bad iddle due to high duration cam.

Also note, E-manage blue does not have cam correction. So, prepare for bad iddling when u have too high duration cams.

269 is only 3 degree lower than the 272 which is recommended for track use. Well, I guess it's ok... Maybe ur idle sounds like "Mesin kuda"... hehee...


Then is 272 degree cam okay for daily use, i mean going thru the jam and all. How's the idling and all?

Actually, overall dynamic balancing is only done on the moving part of the engine. And all the bearings and rings are already well balanced before they are on the market.

-Block(Option)
-Crank
-Flywheel
-Clutch + cover
-Conrod
-Piston
-Bearings(no)
-Rings(no)


For engine balancing is it recommended for me to lighten the flywheel a little bit and also shave / lighten the crankshaft a little bit?

[COLOR="blue"]For port and polish, u don't need to give them the cams. If' u are going to dismental everything, just give the the engine cylinder head kosong.

Better to give them the manifold too.

Unless u are doing a valve job, like 3 angle/5 angle/oversizing... Else, keep the valve.

I'm planning to do a valve job, whats the difference between a 3 angle and 5 angle valve job?[ I think the 4G93T cannot oversize the valve's?/COLOR]

If u want to have a clean balance porting job, send it to the profesionals. Recommended shop are Matspeed or Nasty Port. They have the benchflow test machine.


Where's Nasty Port located at? So what are the price range for porting at Matspeed or Nasty Port?


You are welcome. But there's just a few more recommendation.

1) Since u are dismentling ur engine, skali change to racing bearings. U'll never regret.

I'm using ACL full race bearings (Conrod and Main bearing)

2) For higher boost application, u can look for TOYOTA 4AGZE pistons. They are tougher than stock GSR pistons.


Then is the GSR conrods that reliable for me to use the supercharger pistons with? If the pistons are strong but conrod's are weak, for wat?

3) U mentioned about 10krpm. By the time U rev to 7500krpm, U'll be experiencing valve float and will see dynograph going down. Get urself a set of valve spring with higher spring rate.

But matspeed / nasty port will know what kind of springs to use rite?
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Old 04-23-2010, 11:12 PM   #99
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Default Re: 4g93T gsr engine rebuild, need advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by thesyko View Post
Specify more on your TD04. Bigger fin means which fin..? What size..?

The front fin is bigger. Size is the same as S14 turbine fin.
ok, so it's 60mm compressor fin. But if there's nothin done to the turbine fine, u'll expect the turbine housing tho chock after 6000rpm and cause overheating turbing housing and manifold. Then over pressure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thesyko View Post
252/264/272/288 can all be used for street... It's Malaysia here. It all depended on how much one individual can take the bad iddle due to high duration cam.

Also note, E-manage blue does not have cam correction. So, prepare for bad iddling when u have too high duration cams.

269 is only 3 degree lower than the 272 which is recommended for track use. Well, I guess it's ok... Maybe ur idle sounds like "Mesin kuda"... hehee...


Then is 272 degree cam okay for daily use, i mean going thru the jam and all. How's the idling and all?

If u can take it, then it's ok. But I wouldn't. High fuel consumption. And higher degree cams even pushes the turbine more. U'll expect the turbine to chock even earlier.


Quote:
Originally Posted by thesyko View Post
Actually, overall dynamic balancing is only done on the moving part of the engine. And all the bearings and rings are already well balanced before they are on the market.

-Block(Option)
-Crank
-Flywheel
-Clutch + cover
-Conrod
-Piston
-Bearings(no)
-Rings(no)


For engine balancing is it recommended for me to lighten the flywheel a little bit and also shave / lighten the crankshaft a little bit?

All depends on which power range u are looking for...

But GSR is quite good at low end torque due to it's undersquare configuration. Too light crank n flywheel is not fun on the top end.


Quote:
Originally Posted by thesyko View Post
[COLOR="blue"]For port and polish, u don't need to give them the cams. If' u are going to dismental everything, just give the the engine cylinder head kosong.

Better to give them the manifold too.

Unless u are doing a valve job, like 3 angle/5 angle/oversizing... Else, keep the valve.

I'm planning to do a valve job, whats the difference between a 3 angle and 5 angle valve job?[ I think the 4G93T cannot oversize the valve's?/COLOR]


The best I've heard we could do is 3 angle Wanna know more about valve job, read the following link

Valve Grinding, Valve Job, Multi Angle Valve


Valve Angles - Tech Article - Chevy High Performance Magazine


Quote:
Originally Posted by thesyko View Post
If u want to have a clean balance porting job, send it to the profesionals. Recommended shop are Matspeed or Nasty Port. They have the benchflow test machine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by thesyko View Post

Where's Nasty Port located at? So what are the price range for porting at Matspeed or Nasty Port?
For nasty port flow and matspeed details; click the following link, get their information and call them.

Nasty Portflow

F3-MatSpeed: MatSpeed Products




Quote:
Originally Posted by thesyko View Post
You are welcome. But there's just a few more recommendation.

1) Since u are dismentling ur engine, skali change to racing bearings. U'll never regret.

I'm using ACL full race bearings (Conrod and Main bearing)


Nice

Quote:
Originally Posted by thesyko View Post
2) For higher boost application, u can look for TOYOTA 4AGZE pistons. They are tougher than stock GSR pistons.
Quote:
Originally Posted by thesyko View Post

Then is the GSR conrods that reliable for me to use the supercharger pistons with? If the pistons are strong but conrod's are weak, for wat?
The pistons are the first contact to the combustion on the short block. But of course, u can opt for dtronger rods that is compatible. CA18 conrod from Nissan or China aftermaret Conrod like Duratech...


Quote:
Originally Posted by thesyko View Post
3) U mentioned about 10krpm. By the time U rev to 7500krpm, U'll be experiencing valve float and will see dynograph going down. Get urself a set of valve spring with higher spring rate.

But matspeed / nasty port will know what kind of springs to use rite?
There are not much aftermarket performance valve spring on te market for 4G9X... JUN/TOMEI/Kelford/RPW. It's not a performance engine for ur information.

Last edited by speed2horizon; 04-23-2010 at 11:35 PM.
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Old 04-24-2010, 01:34 PM   #100
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Default Re: 4g93T gsr engine rebuild, need advice

ok, so it's 60mm compressor fin. But if there's nothin done to the turbine fine, u'll expect the turbine housing tho chock after 6000rpm and cause overheating turbing housing and manifold. Then over pressure.

Hmmmm..... then what else can be done to the turbine? I think i have spoken my goal of 250whp and superb reliability and a engine that is fun, reliable and quick. Its my daily ride so I gotta carefully choose my mods.


If u can take it, then it's ok. But I wouldn't. High fuel consumption. And higher degree cams even pushes the turbine more. U'll expect the turbine to chock even earlier.


So I bet that the standard cams are the best bet, huh?

All depends on which power range u are looking for...

But GSR is quite good at low end torque due to it's undersquare configuration. Too light crank n flywheel is not fun on the top end.


So lightening the crank and flywheel a little bit is ok I guess. Just a little bit, but how much is a little bit, any ideas?

The best I've heard we could do is 3 angle Wanna know more about valve job, read the following link

Valve Grinding, Valve Job, Multi Angle Valve


Valve Angles - Tech Article - Chevy High Performance Magazine




For nasty port flow and matspeed details; click the following link, get their information and call them.

Nasty Portflow

F3-MatSpeed: MatSpeed Products



The pistons are the first contact to the combustion on the short block. But of course, u can opt for dtronger rods that is compatible. CA18 conrod from Nissan or China aftermaret Conrod like Duratech...


But from my research the CA18 conrods are shorter by about a few mm. So wont that cause the CR (compression ratio) to be lower due to high of the piston to be lower? Then it's the same as using a super thick gasket. Am i rite?

CA18DET = 83.6mm stroke
4G93 = 89.0mm stroke



There are not much aftermarket performance valve spring on te market for 4G9X... JUN/TOMEI/Kelford/RPW. It's not a performance engine for ur information.

So my best bet is just replacing all the valve's with brand new OEM units and then only performing a 3 angle valve job and new OEM valve springs just for reliability sake, am i rite?
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Old 04-24-2010, 11:05 PM   #101
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Default Re: 4g93T gsr engine rebuild, need advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by thesyko View Post
ok, so it's 60mm compressor fin. But if there's nothin done to the turbine fine, u'll expect the turbine housing tho chock after 6000rpm and cause overheating turbing housing and manifold. Then over pressure.

Hmmmm..... then what else can be done to the turbine? I think i have spoken my goal of 250whp and superb reliability and a engine that is fun, reliable and quick. Its my daily ride so I gotta carefully choose my mods.


If u can take it, then it's ok. But I wouldn't. High fuel consumption. And higher degree cams even pushes the turbine more. U'll expect the turbine to chock even earlier.


So I bet that the standard cams are the best bet, huh?

All depends on which power range u are looking for...

But GSR is quite good at low end torque due to it's undersquare configuration. Too light crank n flywheel is not fun on the top end.


So lightening the crank and flywheel a little bit is ok I guess. Just a little bit, but how much is a little bit, any ideas?

The best I've heard we could do is 3 angle Wanna know more about valve job, read the following link

Valve Grinding, Valve Job, Multi Angle Valve


Valve Angles - Tech Article - Chevy High Performance Magazine




For nasty port flow and matspeed details; click the following link, get their information and call them.

Nasty Portflow

F3-MatSpeed: MatSpeed Products



The pistons are the first contact to the combustion on the short block. But of course, u can opt for dtronger rods that is compatible. CA18 conrod from Nissan or China aftermaret Conrod like Duratech...


But from my research the CA18 conrods are shorter by about a few mm. So wont that cause the CR (compression ratio) to be lower due to high of the piston to be lower? Then it's the same as using a super thick gasket. Am i rite?

CA18DET = 83.6mm stroke
4G93 = 89.0mm stroke



There are not much aftermarket performance valve spring on te market for 4G9X... JUN/TOMEI/Kelford/RPW. It's not a performance engine for ur information.

So my best bet is just replacing all the valve's with brand new OEM units and then only performing a 3 angle valve job and new OEM valve springs just for reliability sake, am i rite?
First of all, u said 250Whp. Then u said superb reliability. Ur term SUPERB RELIABILITY contradicts alot of HP contribution. In order to achieve 250WHP, it's no longer little things u should be doing.

Ok, back to ur question.

1) Achieving 250WHP ,boost of minimum 1.2-1.5bar is the range depending on overall set up. Especially ur ECU. On high boost application, small turbine like TD04L will chock due to the excessive exhaust flow the turbine can handle. In order to be able to handle the exhaust, u need a bigger turbine + housing. Which will somehow cause noticeable lag. 1st contradiction to your engine of being quick. BTW, TD05 14b less laggy compare to TD05 16G. But outcome on the top end, 16G wins streets ahead...

2) Standard cams are good in idle of course. But for performance application, kelford 260 is acceptable for me... Optional springs to handle the valve float phenomena after 7000rpm. But good stuff comes with a price.

More about kelford, check following link:-

Kelford

RPW

If you want a cheaper solution, 1999 or earlier Satria GTI/Putra cams is also a good choice as the duration is a little longer and the lift is also higher. Overlapping problem face on low boost can be minimize with adjustable cam gears. But on high boost application, overlap is no longer a problem.

3) 3mm skimming on the disc is acceptable. But it's not necessary. When engine is well balanced, the smoothness is noticeable.

4) YES!!! using the CA18 conrod is recommended for really high boost application. It'll definitely lower ur compression ratio. Using a Ca18 conrod is like having a 5.6mm thick gasket. Else... U can get the China forged... Quite reliable actually dur to it's H beam configuration.

5) Why do you need to replace the valve when there's nothing wrong with ur current valves... If u need oversizing, try ask around spareparts shop. I've seen overgrinded valve seats and replaced with 0.5mm oversized. Makes alot of difference interms of flow.

Ignore the costy valve job, costly GSR highcams, costly GSR internals. My suggestion would be, make ur fuel tunning effective. Standalone + TD05 + 450cc injectors + Minimum of VR4 intercooler. If budget allows, go for stiffer valve spring since ur ECU has been upgraded to 10krpm rev cut. If u still have lotsa money, then go for an reputated external wastegate.

1 last piece of information, Stock without any modification is the most reliable. Happy modding :)
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Old 04-25-2010, 12:02 AM   #102
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Default Re: 4g93T gsr engine rebuild, need advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by speed2horizon View Post
ok, so it's 60mm compressor fin. But if there's nothin done to the turbine fine, u'll expect the turbine housing tho chock after 6000rpm and cause overheating turbing housing and manifold. Then over pressure.




If u can take it, then it's ok. But I wouldn't. High fuel consumption. And higher degree cams even pushes the turbine more. U'll expect the turbine to chock even earlier.





All depends on which power range u are looking for...

But GSR is quite good at low end torque due to it's undersquare configuration. Too light crank n flywheel is not fun on the top end.




The best I've heard we could do is 3 angle Wanna know more about valve job, read the following link

Valve Grinding, Valve Job, Multi Angle Valve


Valve Angles - Tech Article - Chevy High Performance Magazine




For nasty port flow and matspeed details; click the following link, get their information and call them.

Nasty Portflow

F3-MatSpeed: MatSpeed Products






Nice



The pistons are the first contact to the combustion on the short block. But of course, u can opt for dtronger rods that is compatible. CA18 conrod from Nissan or China aftermaret Conrod like Duratech...




There are not much aftermarket performance valve spring on te market for 4G9X... JUN/TOMEI/Kelford/RPW. It's not a performance engine for ur information.
Quote:
Originally Posted by speed2horizon View Post
First of all, u said 250Whp. Then u said superb reliability. Ur term SUPERB RELIABILITY contradicts alot of HP contribution. In order to achieve 250WHP, it's no longer little things u should be doing.

Ok, back to ur question.

1) Achieving 250WHP ,boost of minimum 1.2-1.5bar is the range depending on overall set up. Especially ur ECU. On high boost application, small turbine like TD04L will chock due to the excessive exhaust flow the turbine can handle. In order to be able to handle the exhaust, u need a bigger turbine + housing. Which will somehow cause noticeable lag. 1st contradiction to your engine of being quick. BTW, TD05 14b less laggy compare to TD05 16G. But outcome on the top end, 16G wins streets ahead...

2) Standard cams are good in idle of course. But for performance application, kelford 260 is acceptable for me... Optional springs to handle the valve float phenomena after 7000rpm. But good stuff comes with a price.

More about kelford, check following link:-

Kelford

RPW

If you want a cheaper solution, 1999 or earlier Satria GTI/Putra cams is also a good choice as the duration is a little longer and the lift is also higher. Overlapping problem face on low boost can be minimize with adjustable cam gears. But on high boost application, overlap is no longer a problem.

3) 3mm skimming on the disc is acceptable. But it's not necessary. When engine is well balanced, the smoothness is noticeable.

4) YES!!! using the CA18 conrod is recommended for really high boost application. It'll definitely lower ur compression ratio. Using a Ca18 conrod is like having a 5.6mm thick gasket. Else... U can get the China forged... Quite reliable actually dur to it's H beam configuration.

5) Why do you need to replace the valve when there's nothing wrong with ur current valves... If u need oversizing, try ask around spareparts shop. I've seen overgrinded valve seats and replaced with 0.5mm oversized. Makes alot of difference interms of flow.

Ignore the costy valve job, costly GSR highcams, costly GSR internals. My suggestion would be, make ur fuel tunning effective. Standalone + TD05 + 450cc injectors + Minimum of VR4 intercooler. If budget allows, go for stiffer valve spring since ur ECU has been upgraded to 10krpm rev cut. If u still have lotsa money, then go for an reputated external wastegate.

1 last piece of information, Stock without any modification is the most reliable. Happy modding :)
Bro, nice information.

I'm planning to use back most of my old engine's parts. The cams for intake is 99' GTI cams and exhaust is GSR cams. Or was it vice versa, forgot edi.

ECU is rechipped (REV cut, boost cut and speedcut eliminated), m planing to fine tune it with maybe an EMANAGE Ultimate (Emanage Ultimate can get rid of the Airflow Sensor).

Turbine so far has provided me with 318whp on a 4G92 DOHC (non-MIVEC) turbo. Its the same TD04 that I'm using with my GSR. Intercooler is Evo3 RS, wastegate is an external unit, coupled with a BLITS Electronic Boost Controller to lowerdown the spooling and improve the responsiveness of the turbine.

So now my best bet is oversized valves , enlarged TB, well ported head + intake manifold.

Thats why my plan of reliability @ 250whp sounds abit stupid but that is what Im targeting for.
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Old 04-25-2010, 01:29 AM   #103
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Default Re: 4g93T gsr engine rebuild, need advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by thesyko View Post
Bro, nice information.

I'm planning to use back most of my old engine's parts. The cams for intake is 99' GTI cams and exhaust is GSR cams. Or was it vice versa, forgot edi.

ECU is rechipped (REV cut, boost cut and speedcut eliminated), m planing to fine tune it with maybe an EMANAGE Ultimate (Emanage Ultimate can get rid of the Airflow Sensor).

Turbine so far has provided me with 318whp on a 4G92 DOHC (non-MIVEC) turbo. Its the same TD04 that I'm using with my GSR. Intercooler is Evo3 RS, wastegate is an external unit, coupled with a BLITS Electronic Boost Controller to lowerdown the spooling and improve the responsiveness of the turbine.

So now my best bet is oversized valves , enlarged TB, well ported head + intake manifold.

Thats why my plan of reliability @ 250whp sounds abit stupid but that is what Im targeting for.
It seems like u're doing double work. If I were to rechip my ecu, I'll send the car to the person I trusted to do the rechip together with the fuel map adjustment, ignition map adjustment, injector size and maf vs rpm map. Rechipping ecu can go way further than just speed cut and rev cut. And it'll work much better than piggyback. Something like a customized ecu for ur set up.

But if u're going for emanage ultimate, u shouldn't have sent ur ecu for rechipping at the first place. Cause the tuner is going to rewrite the entire air fuel mapping using MAP sensors. Then he/she can set at whichever rev the fuel will stop injecting. Emu can do more than just MAF2MAP conversion. Plunk in a wideband module n u can write the mapping like our stock ecu based on targetted AFR. Speed cut n boost cut is all set by tuner.

Back to question n answer, it's the exhaust cams to allow the exhaust to release a
little faster to improve on the turbine spool due to higher lift. U can also use both cams. Just make sure to adjust the cams to eliminate the overlaps unless u're boosting high.

The evo rs n non rs intercooler are the same for all e1-e3 n gsr libero gt. The feedback features on the blitz is fun. But the blitz ID can set for scramble for a duration. Hehe...

Nothing stupid on ur targetted up. U pay the money, u have the right to chose. Everyone said I'm stupid n some still saying. I took out an e3 from my satria n converted to a 4g92 dohc bot. And I'm still having lotsa fun with it.

As long as automotive is concern, everyone spend money like nobody's business on something called car. So, we're all stupid. Lolz. Have fun mate.
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Old 04-25-2010, 01:34 AM   #104
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Default Re: 4g93T gsr engine rebuild, need advice

if u eliminated ur rev cut, then u engine will be kaboom, rev cut cant be eliminated,its there for a reason to protect ur engine, but u can increase it to higher rpm to compensate if u using hi-camshaft. juz my 2cents
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Old 04-25-2010, 01:44 AM   #105
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Default Re: 4g93T gsr engine rebuild, need advice

[/COLOR]
Quote:
Originally Posted by zamiex View Post
if u eliminated ur rev cut, then u engine will be kaboom, rev cut cant be eliminated,its there for a reason to protect ur engine, but u can increase it to higher rpm to compensate if u using hi-camshaft. juz my 2cents
So, bro... Mind to share ur addresses for gsr ecu??? Hehe...

Last edited by speed2horizon; 04-25-2010 at 01:48 AM.
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