What are these meters for

jombiee

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jombiee

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u r so funny la weiii, i'm laufghing in tears !!!:rofl::rofl:
dude...use mr.google first la :banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:

Bump: u r so funny la weiii, i'm laufghing in tears !!!:rofl::rofl:
dude...use mr.google first la :banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:
 

r0yEE

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r0yEE

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who?? me? aww c'mon man... it is true rite? the rest of the meters don't really concern much though.. like vacuum, if you know you're car well enough you will also know if there's leakage..

Bump: who?? me? or jineil?? aww c'mon man... it is true rite? the rest of the meters don't really concern much though.. like vacuum, if you know you're car well enough you will also know if there's leakage..

Bump: who?? me? aww c'mon man... it is true rite? the rest of the meters don't really concern much though.. like vacuum, if you know you're car well enough you will also know if there's leakage..

Bump: who?? me? or jineil?? aww c'mon man... it is true rite? the rest of the meters don't really concern much though.. like vacuum, if you know you're car well enough you will also know if there's leakage..
 

TitanRev

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TitanRev

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hahahha.. tell me about..
water temp meter we already have our stock ones rite?
the only meter i need now is a speedometer.. which is pretty hard to find a small one.. and i've to change my tachometer in future.. it ain't freakin accurate.. shit!! and it's auto gauge one.. ishkk:banghead:
roy, the stock water temp meter is not that details and dont show u any reading so you dont know how much ur temp is.

For speed meter,you can get Pivot speed meter. It's very small and compact. Won't attract too much attention.
 

r0yEE

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r0yEE

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jineil: yea it will kao tim, but it kao tim your pocket too..

yo titan: where can i look for this pivot speed meter? so that means getting those extra meter is better and more accurate? do i need to get all of'em?? besides the boost of course, no turbo:bawling:
 

TitanRev

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jineil: yea it will kao tim, but it kao tim your pocket too..

yo titan: where can i look for this pivot speed meter? so that means getting those extra meter is better and more accurate? do i need to get all of'em?? besides the boost of course, no turbo:bawling:
Aftermarket sensors are better than OEM is because they have better accuracy if compare to OEM because OEM manufacturer will tend to produce items with cost in mind. Not to say, OEM meters cannot use but the display might be off by more than 5%. It's ok for normal drivers but for more demanding drivers. It might not suit them.

After market meters like DEFI, HKS Chrono, APEXi, BLITZ,...they are using electronic signals or magnetic to determine the temp or pressure unlike OEM using electrical current and resistor.

The pros of using electronic signals is better because signal lost is minimal and readings are accurate. Less wiring needed. Take DEFI for example...all the sensor has an individual wiring connectted to the controller but output from controller to the meters can use 1 only because each signal of different reading is coded so the signal will know which signal is for which meter.

For common NA cars, you just need Water Temp, Oil temp, Oil Press...

If you have mod your NA engine extensively. I mean with aftermarket fuel rail, bigger injector, larger capacity fuel pumps, piggyback stand alone ECU (HKS F-Con series, Emanage..)..etc..
Then you can add on fuel press, Ext Temp or AF meter.

For turbo cars, normally they will have Boost meter, water temp, oil temp, oil press, ext temp and fuel press.

In the end is still personal preferences. It's your money and how you spend it. If you want to have more meters suggest you go for DEFI because they are using Daisy chain system for all the meters which gives you a more cleaner and tidier look on your dashboard with less wiring. I'm also user of DEFI. If your budget limits you you can get Apexi or you can get 1 meter 1st from DEFI then slowly add on another meter 1 by 1. The DEFI controller unit is very expensive. Is the meters that are expensive only.

If you don't want to display your meter on the dash. DEFI got another gauges called the DIN-gauge. It's a DIN size gauge with 3 meters built in. Very tidy and nice. It's a smaller 52MM gauges. Normal 1 are 60MM.
http://www.defi-shop.com/product/din/din_top.html

For the Pivot speed meter, you can get from Autoequipe at this link:
http://www.zerotohundred.com/newfor...w]-pivot-speedmeter-v-blue-led-version-2.html

Hope my post can help you. Happy modding.
 
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JINEIL2EN

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JINEIL2EN

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jineil: yea it will kao tim, but it kao tim your pocket too..

yo titan: where can i look for this pivot speed meter? so that means getting those extra meter is better and more accurate? do i need to get all of'em?? besides the boost of course, no turbo:bawling:
ok la... for turbo car is around rm8k++ for a set...:proud:
 

r0yEE

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r0yEE

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cool...
so i just get another 3 which is water temp, oil temp and oil pressure meters huh? cause i didn't do much to the engine, just a 1.5 engine..
if the oil tem is too hot or too high means what?
if the oil pressure too low or too high means what??

Bump: how come they didn't state the price for the defi din meters?

Bump: how come they didn't state the price for the defi din meters?
 

TitanRev

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TitanRev

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cool...
so i just get another 3 which is water temp, oil temp and oil pressure meters huh? cause i didn't do much to the engine, just a 1.5 engine..
if the oil tem is too hot or too high means what?
if the oil pressure too low or too high means what??

Bump: how come they didn't state the price for the defi din meters?

Bump: how come they didn't state the price for the defi din meters?
Bro, please read my previous post about temp too high and oil press readings. please~~ I very tired to re-type all lah...:bawling:

For pricing of DIN gauge call to any performance shop in Sunway area and they will be glad to quote you a price.

Another thing I should add is. Aftermarket gauges are using stepper motor for the drive of the needles giving out the readings. To know about stepper motor please read here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stepper_motor
 
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papagoines

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papagoines

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may i add something based on my insignificant knowledge?

if we have a turbo engine... we dun have to put all the mentioned meters right? for example, i;ve just converted to MiraL5 turbo engine... the meters that I think that I want to put are

  1. Boost meter - silly me not putting it during the swap.... after i actuator problem (bosting more than 1 bar on stock turbo) then I realised that this is an important meter to be have for a turbo engine
  2. oil temp - necessary to monitor oil temp since turbo engine are quite hot.. and can justify if i need to use an oil cooler or not
  3. intake air temp - to monitor my TMIC temp.... and to know whether my scoop design are adequate to channel cool air in and/or justify the need for a intercooler water spray or not
  4. volt meter - 3 battery kong in one year when using the old engine...i'm not taking any chances wif the new one :burnout:

the item that i think i can live without are
  1. Oil pressure - since I din do much drifting and/or touges, just regularly check the oil level dipstick every weekend
  2. exhaust temp/afr - i'm maintaining stock setup so these monitoring kinda redundant ain't it? :hmmmm:
  3. water temp - yes, the aftermarket ones are more accurate, but for a normal user like me... just knowing that the temp nevel soar more than half point on my stock meter... than its ok

are my views correct?

one more thing..... the most accurate mechanical based meters are suprisingly came from VDO.... an OEM manufacturer for lotsa cars...whereas for electronic base...mostly from japan wif apexi leading.... when i found the article i'll post it here

p/s: can i mod this meter to be my dedicated boost meter?
http://www.lelong.com.my/Auc/List/2009-03DeSale28601724_AUCTION_AMS_Germany_Boost_Vacuum_Compound_Gauge_30psi_45psi.htm
 
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r0yEE

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r0yEE

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hahahaa for my man titan:beer:and thanks a lot.. will read up..
papa.. your is just a mira, wait till you get a bigger one.. :driver:
 

shiroitenshi

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shiroitenshi

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why having those meters are helpful, in my opinion. They're only good if you can USE/READ them properly.

Vacuum level. this helps in diagnostics. A leaking intake manifold and a lot of other breathing problems can be noted from this. An experienced mechanic can eliminate a lot of possible problems by just looking at how the vacuum meter behaves. If you as an owner notes how your vac meter behaves, you know there's something wrong when it's not reading like it usually does. This is usually for NA only meter, though some boost meter also have the vaccum portion to read off-boost manifold pressure.

Oil pressure level
, also helps in diagnostics. If your oil pressure is dropping, then there is something wrong with your oiling system. Leakage, cavitation, etc, sometimes, maybe just a worn oil pump, or if oil pressure drops during a high speed cornering manouver down in sepang, it just shows that your car can rail through corners at speeds fast enough that you need a baffled oil sump. Some of the tactics people use to avoid this is by OVERfilling the oil sump so that cornering Gs that cause the oil to slosh about is minimized, though at the expense of having the dipstick popping out sometimes, and losing a bit of HP, which losing a little HP is not a problem for high boost turbo cars. VTEC cars suffering from 'my vtec cannot open' can also benefit, by noting the pressure during vtec engagement, which is 40psi minimum, so instead of running about figuring what the problem is: (solenoid, pressure switch, etc.?) though with chipped ecus, this can be bypassed, to the detriment of the engine, IMO. For turbo cars, low oil press means a soon to fail turbo, either from coking, leaks, etc.

Oil temp, prolly more important to turbo than NA, because turbo using the oil to lubricate, and to a certain extent to cool the turbine bearings/bushings, so unlike NA, the curve which temp rises for oil and water is not the same. For NA, apart from the initial warmup, oil and water almost same temp, just a few degrees apart. Hot oil means it's starting to thin out, and that also means less lubrication. It can also give you a hint if your turbo is overheating or not.


water temp
, a cheap way to monitor engine temp, and the sensor practically lasts forever too. Its so you know when the engine is warmed up enough for hard driving.

Fuel pressure, a way to monitor fuelling system. If your fuel pressure is dropping, means something is wrong with the fuel pump or fuel filtering system is clogged. time to change/service. You can base this on mileage rather than using the meter though, so this is more of something for the meter 'enthusiasts'. Though it can also be considered a tuning tool, in the old days, fuel pressure = fuel adjustments, before the days of EFI, when carburetors are norm. EFI also relies on fuel press to a certain extent, but the importance is a lot less than carbs, so for EFI, it's usually set and forget.

Air fuel ratio, a way to monitor a lot of things, but you need to know what the numbers and graph it can output means. It can give clues and hints on misfiring, engine knocks, fuelling or even how fuel efficient your car is. there are two types of meters, one is the A/F ratio that connects to the stock sensor, which tells you nothing, except if your closed loop system works or not. On a car that is emissions friendly, it should register stoich/a little lean at all times at part throttle, and rich at full throttle. A wideband read more sensitively, and can give hints on a lot of other possible issues like I stated earlier.


Exhaust temp
is a way to measure A/F ratio. It is a cost saving method of not having to connect a wideband 02 sensor (which is EXPENSIVE, and spoils a lot more often than the exhaust temp sensor) On a heavily boosted turbo car, wideband 02 sensors spoil quite often compared to exhaust temp, which is why it's a good substitute.

By looking at the exhaust temp and correlating to an A/F meter (which later can be removed), a car owner can notice when the exhaust temp is getting colder (which usually indicates the car is running lean, and stop driving aggresively before causing critical damage (on high performance engines, because stock engines don't see the stresses like modified engines do). Due to the relative cheapness, some budget racing teams mount four or more exhaust temp sensors so they can do individual cyclinder tuning.

For a four cyclinder, 02 price is probably not a concern since it's abt. USD100x4, but imagine those owners with v8-v12s, OUCH!
esp. those with domestics v8-v12. not all american domestic owners bathe in money.

The more extreme the modication to the engine, the more likely things can go HORRIBLY wrong when one component fails, so most racing teams/modified car owners who are technically inclined use these meters to indicate first signs of trouble, and replace the part before critical failure.

Of course, Malaysian people like it because it looks BLING!, which is nothing wrong really, since these people are the ones that buy the most meters, which keeps manufacturers happy and fund their R&D.
 
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r0yEE

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r0yEE

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:beer:to my man shiro...
thankz loads guys.. now i know what meter should i get for my ride..
 

papagoines

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papagoines

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hahahaa for my man titan:beer:and thanks a lot.. will read up..
papa.. your is just a mira, wait till you get a bigger one.. :driver:
r0yEE: wait u see those crazed mira owners using big turbos and boosting 1bar++...and get 200% more hp than factory rated... i think they're need all the gauge to monitor their crazy mods huhuhu :stupid:

which i'm not pursuing anyway

thanks shiro for the mega info! can save money by buying only needed gauges.... no time to look at them all :hmmmm:
 
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r0yEE

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r0yEE

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papa: so true, don't go extreme on mira's man..
shiro san, how do you read if it's good or bad? i know this is a pretty silly question but i just want to know more.. :burnout:
 

TitanRev

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TitanRev

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I agree that getting gauges that you need is more important then getting all of them. More gauges will only make you lost your concentration on the road only.

papa, i think Oil press is important for you also since your turbo's cooling is taken from the lub oil. if the oil press drop, then you know what u need to do. I think oil press gives you warning faste then oil temp but oil temp is also needed as well.

I think for your setting, Boost , oil temp and oil press is suffice. Intake temp not so necessary if you have sufficient cooling for your IC.

shiro, correct me if I'm wrong. A lean mixture should have a higher EXT temp and a rich mixture should have a cooler EXT temp right?

Originally posted by shiroitenshi
By looking at the exhaust temp and correlating to an A/F meter (which later can be removed), a car owner can notice when the exhaust temp is getting colder (which usually indicates the car is running lean, and stop driving aggresively before causing critical damage

Royee, some pictures for your reference.
My sister ride with simple setup. Advantage of using DEFI. tidy dash without a lot of wirings.


Like this also can..


Or use a meter hood and mount on top of the center dash. On a Rex.
 
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shiroitenshi

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shiroitenshi

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shiro, correct me if I'm wrong. A lean mixture should have a higher EXT temp and a rich mixture should have a cooler EXT temp right?
Oh sorry, generally the thought is that way, because on most turbo cars it is like that, but in actuality, due to different ignition timings, the temps do change differently from car to car, and having someone say that 1000C is definitely lean is really mind-boggling, because it doesn't. At peak power, the engine will generate the most heat, so depending on the engine, that EGT may be just right at WOT. there's no specific temp that is similar for all cars.

That's why I said initially the AF ratio meter must be used, find out at what AFR and ignition is getting peak power (a rough idea suffice, no one remembers all the cells in the ignition/fuel maps anyway) and compare it to exhaust gas temp.

Don't be surprised to find that at best power, our EGTs are significantly higher than that of comparable US cars.

The thing is, on the net, the common consensus is that cool=rich, but from what I've learnt, lean + advanced timing also gives out colder EGT readings as well(this is why I mentioned the need for an A/F meter for the first time, because you need to know for sure what kind of temps you'd be seeing at different AFRs at different ignition timings), so yes, it's arguable, and you're definitely right to point it out.

But for owners who don't know how much stoich EGTs are, best have an AF meter to correlate the reading. You can even do a dyno run at the local dyno shop and make a note of it at that time. It lasts longer than an A/F sensor under abuse, that's all i can say. My Bosch LSU-4 died twice already in the span of 2 years plus, though not without me learning how to read my EGT temps on my car..

But EGTs are not so straightforward to read, so do note that it's usefulness as an A/F tuning tool is limited to how much the owner knows about the fuelling and ignition to rely on it as a substitute for an A/F meter.
But for the laymen, you are more right than me in highlighting that colder temps = rich, and hotter temps = lean.

I got mixed up, lol. I didn't notice it on my third reading pass.
 
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TitanRev

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shiro, you are correct also. Different cars different readings but you are right that use of EGT should be paired with AF gauge. Thanks bro.