titanium exhaust piping

Joeker

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Joeker

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I doubt any exhaust shop in malaysian does Titanium Pipings.

Titanium is freaking expensive.
 

ken yeang

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ken yeang

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I think i does contribute due to its light weight (but hardly noticible compared to other components of the car). In terms of performance, i'm not too sure....if you ask me to buy titanium pipes for RM3000 in which it will be destined to be hanged under a car, I think i'll invest in other part of my car...it's just me, of course
 

malique

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titanium piping dificult to install la, need vacuumed environment to weld, if not sure karat one.....
 

gohkokeng

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gohkokeng

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malique said:
titanium piping dificult to install la, need vacuumed environment to weld, if not sure karat one.....
vacuumed environment......lol do in space meh......
 

gohkokeng

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gohkokeng

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i wonder those mechanic with the astronaut gear with the car flaoting around...........
 

'[00] TRD

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'[00] TRD

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but once u start yr car for testin purpose, yr car will b gone due to momentum created!! LoL

anyway,back to topic; wats the good of titanium tip in muffler? looks better n?
 

prodigy

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prodigy

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OK, let me give an insight into titanium welding.

Titanium, among all metal is the most unfriendly, most difficult to weld. Its a very special grade of metal whereby its 30% lighter than steel and almost as strong as steel given the exact same dimension. Its also very very sensitive to air during welding. This means that special care is needed when one does titanium welding.

First and foremost, titanium needs to be cleaned properly prior to welding. And you need to remove air/oxygen from the area you wanna weld. Assuming you wanna weld a pipe, you have to flush/purge the pipe with argon gas for about 10 seconds or so. Again, that depends on the diameter of the pipe. The bigger the diameter, the longer you need to purge. After purging, you can start welding and after welding, you need to cool the welded zone also with argon gas so that oxygen does not get into the molten titanium zone before it cools completely. This is what you call trailing and you use argon as a trailing gas. You don't need a vacuum environment to weld titanium but rather it has to be relatively free from air so that it won't destroy the weld and have porosity in the weldzone.

Basically thats about it but what i'm trying to say here is titanium is not an easy metal to weld and whatever you read in magazine about titanium pipe are just marketing gimmicks. First and foremost, its not cheap at all. For a complete exhaust from extractor to muffler tip, i'm estimating that the cost alone for pipes and welding is probably 30K. Its that expensive!! And i've not even incluided in bending, whereby you need a good pipe bender to do the job as it'll crack when improperly bended. And if someone gives you bullshit that only the muffler is titanium, thats plain bullshit even if the best exhaust shop says so. Its simply because titanium DOES NOT bond with any type of stainless steel or carbon steel. Its a very unfriendly metal which won't bond even with the highest stainless steel grade. So you find that a true titanium exhaust will come from extractor right to the muffler tip. Boy, that is not cheap at all! Unless your exhaust shop owner tell you he uses glue to stick carbon steel piping on titanium muffler.

The only reason why people use the term titanium piping/muffler is that the blueish and goldish finishing on a so called "titanium muffler tip" actually looks very similar to a weldzone of a titanium material. The quality of a titanium weld actually is determined visually by the color it produces when its properly cooled. A good weld is normally blueish. That is why some exhaust manufacturers claim its titanium muffler tip when in actual, it only looks like titanium finishing.

So guys, i'm not saying "titanium mufflers" are lousy and bad. What i'm trying to tell you guys is to not succumb to marketing gimmicks. At the end of the day, the muffler may be the best muffler around but just becareful with what they claim and how they earn an extra couple of hundred bucks just because its 'titanium muffler'.
 

prodigy

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Oh yeah, the failure rate for titanium welding is quite high too. You find that even for a skilled professional, at times the failure rate could be 4 out of 10. Sometimes more, sometimes less. To reduce the failure rate, you use a fully automatic titanium welding machine. You just program in the parameters, switch on the machine and it'll give you pretty consistent weld.
 

lan evo

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lan evo

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prodigy:thanks for the info.from what u said i dun think there will be available in malaysia soon and it will be fucking expensive to do it.im not interested in the colour of it,i only like the lightnest
 

prodigy

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prodigy

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As a matter of fact, i've browsed thru a few websites which said to be offering titanium mufflers. These mufflers are actually partially titanium only. Maybe just the muffler body or the tip and most of them are not welded, just bolted on or riveted together with stainless steel body.
 

'[00] TRD

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question, y are there some muffler tip wit a slight pore on it?? wats that for?
 

cannondale>

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lan evo said:
prodigy:thanks for the info.from what u said i dun think there will be available in malaysia soon and it will be fucking expensive to do it.im not interested in the colour of it,i only like the lightnest
u can check there is a broken ti muffler at JFA. no one can weld it back. normally they use the spring to join the titanium pipping with the stanless steal exhaust braket joint. thats why nobody will buy a titanium muffler alone.
 

prodigy

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prodigy

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Yeah, titanium composition is totally different from stainless steel, mild steel so if one smart ass says he can weld them together, he's bullshitting actually.

Again, titanium is very very sensitive to oxidation(rust). Thats why i highlighted the importance of using argon gas to purge and trail the welding area.

Hmmm...maybe its time i pay Jaaffar a visit.
 

'[00] TRD

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'[00] TRD said:
question, y are there some muffler tip wit a slight pore on it?? wats that for?
errmm.... sumthin like the cf muffler, near the tip there, there is one screw or sumthin else.. not sure heard fr which party, sayin that will create the psshhh ppsshhh noise??! :Not_Impressed:
 

si|verfish

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prodigy said:
Again, titanium is very very sensitive to oxidation(rust).
I don't know nuts about welding titanium but titanium doesn't rust in the general sense of the word. Titanium, like aluminium, forms a protective outer oxide layer that gives it a lot of its durability and characteristics.
 

prodigy

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prodigy

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Silverfish dude, my line was taken out of context.

"Again, titanium is very very sensitive to oxidation(rust). Thats why i highlighted the importance of using argon gas to purge and trail the welding area."

When i say titanium is sensitive to oxidation, i meant during welding period when the titanium weld is still in molten metal. Any metal, be it titanium, stainless steel or duplex steel will form oxidation when proper care is not taken during welding. Oxidation is a weak point of the metal when welded and within a short period, you find that the weld is not strong anymore. So to make sure titanium doesn't form oxidation, you need to trail the molten pool with argon gas so that it cools down faster and also no oxygen will get into the molten pool.
 

si|verfish

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si|verfish

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prodigy said:
Silverfish dude, my line was taken out of context.

"Again, titanium is very very sensitive to oxidation(rust). Thats why i highlighted the importance of using argon gas to purge and trail the welding area."

When i say titanium is sensitive to oxidation, i meant during welding period when the titanium weld is still in molten metal. Any metal, be it titanium, stainless steel or duplex steel will form oxidation when proper care is not taken during welding. Oxidation is a weak point of the metal when welded and within a short period, you find that the weld is not strong anymore. So to make sure titanium doesn't form oxidation, you need to trail the molten pool with argon gas so that it cools down faster and also no oxygen will get into the molten pool.
Mate, I'm sure you've got your facts straight. I'm just trying to clear up so that nobody misunderstands because of the "rust" word. Nanti they think titanium will rust like iron, and they go around telling people prodigy told them so, then jialat lor.
 
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it expen but amazing

:shades_smile: hi bro...it is exe but for those are using it...they can explain the diff...before and after...em...some people may thing that thats is cray but for the performance term it is ok.....:angel_smile:
 

prodigy

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From the article, it does look like they're selling full titanium exhaust. The article mentioned that its really light so i won't be surprise if its full titanium setup. However, one thing is that we won't know what grade of titanium is it. There are a few grades available in the market, and depending on your application, each has its own characteristics and its own price. I do think that for automotive applications, the grade of titanium are normally comercials ones. That means its the easiest to weld and most commonly found around. The ones that are used in underwater, heat exchanger or aerospace are alot purer and more expensive. Anyways, USD3K for a set of exhaust is really really expensive for an average Malaysian. We've not even put in the workmanship yet.

The main advantage of titanium setup is not the horsepower gain, rather the weight savings. The extra power you feel is most likely due to your car being lighter. If you ask me, a nicely tune up stainless steel exhaust can produce the same horsepower as a titanium exhaust.
 

si|verfish

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Ah...the biggest difference is that you call tell all your mates that you've got titanium exhaust system.
 

ace79

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ooohhhh...now we're talking about Ti exhaust piping...does Robert have an almost 100% lab - quality room for his Ti welding jobs? what prodigy posted is right, and that's why only big ( real big exhaust co's ) can offer Ti exhaust items + pipings. love the colour though!
 

GSRSolutions

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Robert base at Segambut.Many ppl dunno who is robert but this tauke do many monster car piping.Custom intake manifold,header (4gxx cusco and jun type also vtec),4 throttle for vtec and mivec and more more more.......................Only afew ZTH member monster car know this place.He do da piping very well compare to other.
 

ace79

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GSRSolutions said:
Robert base at Segambut.Many ppl dunno who is robert but this tauke do many monster car piping.Custom intake manifold,header (4gxx cusco and jun type also vtec),4 throttle for vtec and mivec and more more more.......................Only afew ZTH member monster car know this place.He do da piping very well compare to other.
Does Robert have mandrel bending facility?