Sepang Drag Battle September 2004

[MK84]

Originally posted by tkk+Sep 10 2004, 11:16 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (tkk @ Sep 10 2004, 11:16 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-MrNismo@Sep 10 2004, 03:09 PM
Difference of 0.07 sec is ET (Elapsed Time). The Cefiro launched faster than the RX7 (might be half a second faster), that's why he reached the finishing line first. RX7 takes shorter time to cover 1/4 mile (0.07sec faster), and if qualification is judged on ET, RX7 qualifies. If judged on ET+RT (reaction time), Cefiro qualifies.

hi,

how come the cefiro reached the finishing line first n he will get 0.07 behind rx7???

i was in the pit. n all my friend saw the cefiro is infront? but the time is totally disapointed us...

anyway have you see who is leading on the finishing on 400 meter for cefiro n rx7?

i think have to wait until nov to see the result hehehe.. [/b][/quote]
Aiyo... still don't understand ar.. The timing is what counts, specifically the ET. Doesn't matter who reach the finish line first, this is not a knockout or bracket racing.

 

[CarismaGT]

Originally posted by MK84+Sep 11 2004, 02:21 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (MK84 @ Sep 11 2004, 02:21 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by tkk@Sep 10 2004, 11:16 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-MrNismo

@Sep 10 2004, 03:09 PM
Difference of 0.07 sec is ET (Elapsed Time). The Cefiro launched faster than the RX7 (might be half a second faster), that's why he reached the finishing line first. RX7 takes shorter time to cover 1/4 mile (0.07sec faster), and if qualification is judged on ET, RX7 qualifies. If judged on ET+RT (reaction time), Cefiro qualifies.

hi,

how come the cefiro reached the finishing line first n he will get 0.07 behind rx7???

i was in the pit. n all my friend saw the cefiro is infront? but the time is totally disapointed us...

anyway have you see who is leading on the finishing on 400 meter for cefiro n rx7?

i think have to wait until nov to see the result hehehe..

Aiyo... still don't understand ar.. The timing is what counts, specifically the ET. Doesn't matter who reach the finish line first, this is not a knockout or bracket racing. [/b][/quote]
MK84: does that means the timing during the last Sepang Drag is only ET? the Reaction Time is not added to it? so when the Garage R Evo were doing 9.**secs... does that time inclusive of RT or exclusive?

btw have u gotten the final results slip for me? hehehe

 

[wira4]

Originally posted by MK84+Sep 11 2004, 02:21 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (MK84 @ Sep 11 2004, 02:21 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by tkk@Sep 10 2004, 11:16 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-MrNismo

@Sep 10 2004, 03:09 PM
Difference of 0.07 sec is ET (Elapsed Time). The Cefiro launched faster than the RX7 (might be half a second faster), that's why he reached the finishing line first. RX7 takes shorter time to cover 1/4 mile (0.07sec faster), and if qualification is judged on ET, RX7 qualifies. If judged on ET+RT (reaction time), Cefiro qualifies.

hi,

how come the cefiro reached the finishing line first n he will get 0.07 behind rx7???

i was in the pit. n all my friend saw the cefiro is infront? but the time is totally disapointed us...

anyway have you see who is leading on the finishing on 400 meter for cefiro n rx7?

i think have to wait until nov to see the result hehehe..

Aiyo... still don't understand ar.. The timing is what counts, specifically the ET. Doesn't matter who reach the finish line first, this is not a knockout or bracket racing. [/b][/quote]
As for the Cefiro/Rx7 case, the crucial info is which car left the starting line first. If Cefiro left first, then even though Cefiro crossed the finish line earlier than Rx7, Cefiro's ET as recorded on the time tracking system at Sepang would still make sense because on the balance of probability, one can argue that Rx7 could be taking his time to launch (which is not the requirment under the rules) but as soon as the sensor is triggered by Rx7 at the start line, time will run until the next trigger on a second sensor at the finish line by the same Rx7.

Suspect will arise IF Rx7 left the start line earlier but crossed the fnish line later than Cefiro and RX7's ET in this scenario could not possibly be better than Cefiro's ET if Cefiro crossed the finish line first. It is like Cefiro let the Rx7 go first and then before Rx7 could reach the finish line, Cefiro already crossed the finish line at the other end of the strip. Logically in this scenario, it is "obvious" that Cefiro should be the faster car than Rx7.

So, who launched out of the box first/earlier?

In the interest of spectators/viewers, the ideal method of determining which car is the winner is for both cars to launch at the same time. If you take your own sweet time to launch, you will definitely be at a disadvantage in ET under this method. This method obviously introduces reaction time for the drivers. If the driver were under the influence of drug/alcohol or distracted or not focusing at the start line, he wil be at a big disadvantage. :D

 

[MK84]

Originally posted by CarismaGT@Sep 11 2004, 03:20 AM
MK84: does that means the timing during the last Sepang Drag is only ET? the Reaction Time is not added to it? so when the Garage R Evo were doing 9.**secs... does that time inclusive of RT or exclusive?

btw have u gotten the final results slip for me? hehehe

Yep... only ET. RT is not counted unless the ET is exactly the same.

What's your email dei? :)

 

[CarismaGT]

Originally posted by MK84+Sep 12 2004, 04:36 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (MK84 @ Sep 12 2004, 04:36 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-CarismaGT@Sep 11 2004, 03:20 AM
MK84: does that means the timing during the last Sepang Drag is only ET? the Reaction Time is not added to it? so when the Garage R Evo were doing 9.**secs... does that time inclusive of RT or exclusive?

btw have u gotten the final results slip for me? hehehe

Yep... only ET. RT is not counted unless the ET is exactly the same.

What's your email dei? :) [/b][/quote]
how bout the few past Sepang Drag Battle?

Round 1 and Round 2? did they add the RT also? or just the ET?

[email protected]

 

[MrNismo]

Originally posted by wira4+Sep 10 2004, 11:52 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (wira4 @ Sep 10 2004, 11:52 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Eevolution3@Sep 10 2004, 06:30 PM
Hope you dun mind me answering that..
The Pro start uses an external module connected to the F Con V on which launch rpm is selectable in 200 rpm increments depending on the selected working range rpm.. the additional beauty of this is that fuel is automatically added during the activation of the throttle if the computer sees that the mixture is leaning during the launch sequence..
The Autronic SMC and SM2 has this feature thru use of its anti-lag chip but of course the SM2 being the more advanced ecu has all of what the F Con V Pro has except that there is no fuel enrichment function. When the throttle is held open to activate the launch, the EGT temperatures spikes up with the disadvantage is that the throttle cannot be held open too long or else you will have a meltdown on the turbine wheel..
Same goes for the Haltech. Not sure on the Microtech...but they are pretty close in the functions and setup..

I think what you have described is known as "anti-lag system" or "misfiring system" or the layman's term as "bang bang system". This is not the same as launch control or some call it "dual stage rev limiter".

Yes,anti-lag system will give rise to high EGT and may result in burnt exhaust valves or cracked manifold. The beauty of this system is that it allows you to spool the turbo when you open the throttle to any % and the boost will build up while you are preparing for launching. You probably need to set up the "launch control" to limit the rpm(and thus the boost) so that your wheels will not spin like mad and defeat the whole purpose of a decent launch. Most decent computers such as Motec, Autronics, Haltech will basically allow the user to enrich the fuel mixture and to retard timing during operation of the anti-lag system.

The launch control, as I understand it, is simply rpm limiting at the activation of a switch by the user. The rpm is selectable at the user's choice. Once the desirable rpm is set, the user can just simply go WOT without overreving the engine while waiting to launch. If you are running ball bearing turbo or small turbo, you may be seeing some boost or even more by doing this. This mode is normally preferred to the anti-lag system. Hope I am not far out of topic. :) [/b][/quote]
Eevolution,
By 'external module', do you mean that there is an additional hardware device other than the F-CON V Pro ECU itself in order to use the Prostart function?

Wira4,
The HKS Prostart does allow you to go WOT while limiting rpm and spooling the turbo for launching. Don't think the size of the turbo matters. I was told that the GR Evo has 1.0bar of boost ready for launching, while mine only has 0.6bar.

 

[BLaCkHoWLiNG]

If MrN launches at 1bar of boost, he'll overshot and land on d moon!

 

[MrNismo]

Originally posted by BLaCkHoWLiNG@Sep 12 2004, 12:05 PM
If MrN launches at 1bar of boost, he'll overshot and land on d moon!

I think my engine will blow and land on the moon while the shell of the car remains on earth... :D

 

[phoenixpower]

Originally posted by MrNismo@Sep 8 2004, 01:38 AM
Not true.

Engine and car is fully built in Singapore by Garage R. Tuned by Garage R using F CON V Pro. Owner is Singaporean. Driver is Malaysian but Singapore PR.

Singaporean rich? Hehehe friend I think there are a few cars that night that doesn't spend any much lesser than that car....

MrNismo,

Sorry for my ignorance but could it be that the engine is a crate engine from HKS Japan (ie long block) excluding external hardwares like fuel, forced induction etc which is then assembled and tuned by Garage R?

Was the run assisted by N2O?


FYI, most of the successful 4G63 powered drag cars are using the factory spec'ed stroke of 88mm. Seems like the combination of engine geometry vs. RPM has major effect on the power production.


Btw,Please correct me if im wrong.





Regards.

 

[MrNismo]

Yupe the engine is still maintaining it's standard stroke with HKS upsize piston, forged rod and crank. I've seen the HKS crate engine on the Garage R demo Evo 8 and it has a serial number craved on the head itself while this one don't. Anyway, only the engine itself won't make a fast car out of any car. I'd say it's how the car being built and tuned.

Nope the car is not running on Nitrous although rumours has it yes.

 

[Eevolution3]

Yes, there is anti lag and there is also launch control.. there are also external modules sold in the market that does launch control. When the coils are thrown into a mis randomly depending on how many cycles its thrown a miss, the thrown off spark helps keep rpm 'set' during the launch phase .Coupled with the retarded timing and continuous fuel dump will hence spike cylinder pressure to create boost during the so called 'launch phase'. This fuel dump is continuous but not additional. However, not all ecu's support that. The autronic doesn't allow fuel enrichment and only allows part throttle launch. That is why the EGT will continue to rise with time. Haltech allows full throttle launch but not sure about the fuel enrichment though..more like just continuous fuel dump as what is already on the fuel map at that particular rpm. However, with the use of a switch at the clutch pedal, full throttle gear change is also possible la. To make it all work, all ecu's that have launch control capability timing retard is of course necessary or else we'll have the engines ping to death at that point.. :D
Anyway, good that everybody's using launch control except for myself..heh heh..
The selectable module (optional) hooked to the harness allows 5 programmable launch rpm's in 400 rpm range (can be altered). That coupled with the start switch is an optional module to allow Pro Start function in all F Con V Pro's...

 

[wira4]

Originally posted by Eevolution3@Sep 12 2004, 11:53 PM
Haltech allows full throttle launch but not sure about the fuel enrichment though..more like just continuous fuel dump as what is already on the fuel map at that particular rpm. However, with the use of a switch at the clutch pedal, full throttle gear change is also possible la.

Speaking from experience on Haltech, the launch control mode does not require enrichment nor timing retard. I just type in the rpm figure that I feel the car launches best at, activate it, and go WOT while waiting to launch.

The characteristic you described is more akin to anti lag system. It is the retarded timing that makes the an-ti lag work and the fuel to cool the temp down. Just my own 2ct.

On the haltech, it is user adjustable to increase fuel over what is already on the fuel map. I am not sure what you meant by "continuous fuel dump" but I know haltech allows you to select either fuel cut or ignition cut. Perhaps igniton cut is closer to "continuos fuel dump" ?

 

[3939]

This time drag on NIGHT??? If like that, I've been cheated by the drag forum...someone said this time drag race in afternoon...coz the organizer can't get license to race at nite...
* Neva mind la...i'll wait for next month drag*

 

[Eevolution3]

Thats the thing ya see, the Haltech supports the additional fuel enrichment and does not allow exhaust temperatures to go up. I'm sure you're running the ignition cut while allowing additional fuel enrichment for you to hold it at WOT without worrying well the Autronic doesn't. It uses the anti-lag function to enable launch control. NO fuel enrichment, only part throttle, only ignition cut and definitely no WOT on launch...but still allows flat throttle gear change la... :D
What I meant when I say continuous fuel dump is when the ignition is cut, fuel is still being supplied into the cylinders.
Guess the Haltech is a bit better in this area eh...heh heh...

 

[phoenixpower]

Originally posted by MrNismo@Sep 12 2004, 11:35 PM
Yupe the engine is still maintaining it's standard stroke with HKS upsize piston, forged rod and crank. I've seen the HKS crate engine on the Garage R demo Evo 8 and it has a serial number craved on the head itself while this one don't. Anyway, only the engine itself won't make a fast car out of any car. I'd say it's how the car being built and tuned.

Nope the car is not running on Nitrous although rumours has it yes.

True enough the engine itself wont make the car fast. It is the whole combination being put together by the tuner that makes the car quick & fast down the 1/4 mile run.

Actually, im not at all surprise that they ran without N2O as HKS Kansai's Evo4 ran a 10.4secs(last I have heard) with an HKS GT3240. A bigger turbo running at a higher boost will drop the time(of course there are other variables put into the equation to get the times right).


Quickest 4x4, 4 cylinder without the aid of N2O that I know of is 9.3secs.

Garage R is not far off that time.

A job well done to them.


Any ideas on the best 60ft time made?