Review: 2015 Megane RS275 Trophy-R + On-Board Video

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Tom

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You've read my entry on the FK2R. Now, allow me to publish my take on the Megane RenaultSport 275 Trophy-R, the meanest, fastest, lightest most exclusive Megane ever produced.

again, I wish to encourage an active on-going discussion here, so please post any comments or questions, good or bad. I shall try to answer them all

enjoy the read!

Original article here:
http://www.zerotohundred.com/2015/megane-rs275-trophy-r-sepang-circuit-first-drive-on-board-video/



This is the most extreme Megane RS money can buy. It is also the most developed 3rd generation Megane RS within the RenaultSport line up. Just weeks ago, I was very privileged to be some of the first to take this mega hatch out on Sepang for a handful of laps.

Video:

On Board Video - Sepang Circuit

<iframe src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/WIl8Pzk3k5E" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" width="700"></iframe>

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<iframe src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/n_U7h0UwtNM" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" width="700"></iframe>

This Trophy R

This particular unit is said to be 1 of 10 that was brought into Malaysia by TC Euro Cars / Renault Malaysia and is owned by a guy who only wants to be known as SR, and is undoubtedly the most devoted hot hatch fanatic that I know of. He has both generations of the MINI GP, 2 Megane RSs, a MK5 Golf GTI and god knows what else in his collection.

  • Zerotohundred: 5.8 seconds (claimed)
  • Nurburgring Lap Time: 7’54’’36
  • Top Speed: 255km/h
  • Engine: Turbocharged 2L in-line 4 cylinder
  • Power: 275bhp
  • Torque 360m
  • Weight: 1,297kg
The following will be my first circuit impressions of the RenaultSport Megane 275 Trophy R.



The Cockpit


Entering the RS275 Trophy R is unlike any previous Megane RSs. It’s pretty special and include an injection of motorsport equivalent goodies. Firstly, like a racing cup car, you are greeted with a set bucket seats complete with bright red multi-point seat harness. The seat is based on a polycarbonate shell wrapped in alcantara and leather with red stitching.

As I peek inside, there’s an obvious absence of rear seats, replaced with air, a horizontal bar which I suspect doesn’t add structural rigidity but when coupled with a nylon net acts as a partition for transporting 4 track wheels in which was used to be the boot area. Underneath the fabric floor base, there is no insulation material which is worth 18kg in weight savings. Other than that, it’s all standard issue facelift Megane RS items. Wait, there’s also a rather motorsport relevant alcantara trimmed steering wheel.

After strapping myself in, I started the engine for the first time. Okay this thing is unlike any other before it. The RS275 Trophy R’s rather audible Akrapovic exhaust feature a raspy note, true to that of a race system. The entire car throbs to the tune of the exhaust and this vibe is directly transmitted through the Trophy R’s seat via its bespoke aluminium brackets.
I honestly wasn’t expecting the Trophy R to be this raw.



Monstrous


Gunning out the pit exit, the RS275 Trophy R inherits familiar characteristics from its previous iterations. Except everything is substantially amplified. Signature Megane RS throaty exhaust note is way louder in here and engine response is second to none. Throttle is now significantly lighter and the revs races through its range so much more eagerly. interestingly, gearshift quality is markedly improve here as well. RenaultSport’s got the ambiance in the Trophy R just right I must say.
This increase in acceleration is largely contributed by the almost 100kg in weight savings from removal or replacement of Key items such as:
  1. Insulation material removal -18kg
  2. Front bucket seats replacement -22kg
  3. Rear seats removal -20kg
  4. Entertainment + air con system -10kg
  5. Rear wiper delete -1kg
  6. Speedline 19″ Turini wheels -5kg
  7. Allevard composite front springs -4kg
Also, on top of the above mentioned hardware changes contributing to the Trophy R’s incredible performance, the Megane RS’s iconic 2.0 Turbo power plant also received software upgrades through changes in engine mapping to up power and torque. All these without affecting mpg as claimed by RenaultSport. Probably due to the extreme diet compromise.



Truly Track Biased


The Trophy R comes with a special kind of suspension. No regular RenaultSport cup chassis items here. A first for production cars, the front suspension is fitted with Allevard composite springs, made from fiberglass reinforced plastics, that are both extremely light and corrosion proof.



Check out the fiberglass reinforced plastic spring, produced by Allevard for the Trophy R – Photo by RenaultSport

These special composite springs are matched with motorsport grade Öhlins Road & Track mechanically adjustable dampers on all four corners, which feature 20 clicks to zero in on a desired setup. However, as with all race inspired adjustable suspension, it is always a pain in the ass to get them just right. Thankfully, there’s a recommended base guide by RenaultSport test driver Laurent Hurgon who’ve skillfully drove the Trophy R into under 7:55 territory at the Nur. Crowning the Trophy R fastest FF hatch in the world.

All these coupled with the already rigid Megane RS body simply equates to a true track biased setup. Felt throughout my circuit drive, the Trophy R is extremely communicative where feedback from all 4 corners are accurately transmitted throughout the driving seat and steering. There’s virtually zero body roll and the firm suspension takes full advantage of superb Michelin Cup 2 tyres. In short, the Trophy R drives like a track car without a cage.

On a few occasions out of driving error be it deliberate or unplanned, I was well impressed by the precise turn in and most of all, the uncanny ability of the Trophy R at the exit of corners. Even if you get the exit almost right, with the steering still at a certain degree of turn, simply apply throttle and you are assured of a fast exit as the magic LSD pulls the car out of the turn and genius perfohub variable kuckle eliminate all torque steer. Such a stunt is simply impossible even with most track cars. RenaultSport cars are famous for this and the their flagship Trophy R demonstrates it with amazing talent.

Read Next: 2016 Nissan Skyline R32 Gathering x Trackday @ MIMC!



The brakes, wow. All Megane RS are world renowned for its sublime braking ability. By now anyone would have known Brembo powers this area. But in truth it is not all in the calipers and discs. In fact everything from the Megane’s rigid body, brilliant chassis and tyres makes up for its godlike braking.
The Trophy R feature bigger front discs than regular RS and this difference is felt greatly through its lighter body, Ohlins coilovers and Michelin Cup 2 rubbers.

I would say the Trophy R beats its RS siblings by at least 20% in this area. It is unreal just how late the Trophy R can brake. There is almost always a sense of “hey-there’s-more-to-go” every time I explore the braking points in this car. The other best part? These brakes hardly fade or if at all.



Phenomenal Michelins


Currently the most talked about driving rubber, Michelin’s latest Pilot Sport Cup 2 is found on almost every notable performance car launched this year, such as the latest GT3 RS and the F458 Speciale. Also found on the RS275 Trophy R, these new Cup 2 tyres mean business. Even more grippy in the dry compared to its predecessor, the Cup 2 features two compounds in one tyre that differs from its inner and outer shoulders, promising efficient daily driving qualities through the firmer inner tread and utmost performance on the limit be it on road or track, via the softer compound on the outside tread. Pretty mad right? Michelin calls this the Bi-Compound technology.

I have to say the sensation felt from these new Cup 2s are somewhat mixed. When cold, grip availability is a guessing game as discovered during my first sighting lap. These are unlike any tyre I’ve been accustomed to. Even semi slicks provide sufficient grip 6/7 corners onwards. I had a little scare when the front end didn’t respond well at one point during my usual warm up sequence. Was it due to the Trophy R’s preliminary damping setup? Maybe.



Look, no rear wiper, Owner a TIMETOATTACK loyalist.

Peak bite comes when they are thoroughly warmed up. In fact, only after being vigorously utilized for a complete lap or 2 before they actually stick. Michelin says the Cup 2 provide more laps per use and is their most trackable street tyre. That is perhaps why it possess such a character.

Read Next: RSCollectif's massive Megane RS and Clio RS romp to Genting Highlands - RenaultSport Madness

Nevertheless, when the Cup 2 start to bite, they truly are some of the best road / track tyre money can buy. It provides consistent grip throughout the session without apparent drop in performance. Even when exploring the limits, these Cup 2s are brilliantly intuitive and communicative, so you’ll always know how much you can push.



Verdict


Status wise, this Megane RenaultSport 275 Trophy R has got to be the undisputed king of of hot hatches. There just isn’t any other examples currently available that is as extreme as this. It even comes with a miniscule Lithium-lon car battery for further weight savings.

The Trophy-R is also the most impractical for most purposes. It’s loud. It drones while cruising, thumps from the suspension is heard when commuting on uneven roads and clangs from tyres sending stones ricocheting off the uninsulated body is pretty much perpetual.



There isn’t even floor mats in the Trophy R

  • Is it that special? Yes it really is.
  • Should I buy one? Yes if you already have everything.
  • Is it worth it? Yes if money is of little importance.
Even so, the Trophy R will likely provide more satisfaction per hour than say, a GTR be it on road or track. It is tons more engaging, uncompromising and undiluted than most performance cars money can buy. I can’t wait for my 2nd opportunity if there’s one, to have a go in this mega meg on real world roads.

Words and Photos by: Tom Goh

RenaultSport Malaysia

RenaultSport Cars are expertly imported and distributed by TC Euro Cars Malaysia. They are ever ready to entertain your every RS needs. Drop them a line if you’re interested in any RenaultSport or Renault models. You might want to try their new Clio 1.2 GT or the Captur, being their latest offering

http://www.renault.com.my/

RenaultSport Collectif

If you’re a RenaultSport Owner in Malaysia, be sure to enlist yourself within the RS Collectif group. Where Malaysian RenaultSport owners lurk, share and organize exclusive outings and drives. There’s also an invitees-only unofficial mobile Telegram social group for even more exclusives. So apply within!. I am in, so you should too.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/meganersclub/?fref=ts


Original article here:
http://www.zerotohundred.com/2015/megane-rs275-trophy-r-sepang-circuit-first-drive-on-board-video/
 

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How is it a rear wiper delete if they leave that ugly thing sticking out like that? That's a bit of a shame really. Probably would've looked nicer with the whole thing out and replaced with a rubber grommet.

Not entirely crazy about the red rims either.

But daaaaaaaaaaamn that's one helluva nice cockpit. Whats with the standard across torso seat belt and a full harness?

Is it as frisky as the original Megane? Personally this car looks like more of a drivers car than the FK2R you reviewed earlier.
 

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Phew, Ohlins suspension with Pilot Sport Cup 2 tires!

Btw, this car does not have any audio system anymore is it? So that speaker opening in the door panel is empty only? Still has power window and mirror, does it?

I suppose this is like a hot hatch FF version of a Lotus Elise/Exige, is it? :biggrin:

How is it a rear wiper delete if they leave that ugly thing sticking out like that? That's a bit of a shame really. Probably would've looked nicer with the whole thing out and replaced with a rubber grommet.

Not entirely crazy about the red rims either.

But daaaaaaaaaaamn that's one helluva nice cockpit. Whats with the standard across torso seat belt and a full harness?

Is it as frisky as the original Megane? Personally this car looks like more of a drivers car than the FK2R you reviewed earlier.
Yah, that wiper delete is like an after thought.

Red rims follow Porsche style. :biggrin: If black then follow AMG A45 style.
I'd again say 18' would look more matching to the body size.

Yeah agree, this car looks more subtle but yet more matching for its purpose while the FK2R is more like ah beng in-your-face get-the hell-out-of-my-way, boy racer styling but yet less purposeful than this.
 

Tom

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How is it a rear wiper delete if they leave that ugly thing sticking out like that? That's a bit of a shame really. Probably would've looked nicer with the whole thing out and replaced with a rubber grommet.

Not entirely crazy about the red rims either.

But daaaaaaaaaaamn that's one helluva nice cockpit. Whats with the standard across torso seat belt and a full harness?

Is it as frisky as the original Megane? Personally this car looks like more of a drivers car than the FK2R you reviewed earlier.
Yeah, they could have flushed the wiper point better. Well it's more than a partial delete since the motor is no longer in place. that's probably a few hundred grams saved.

I doubt owners would prefer to strap themselves in the multi point harness which Is why the existing seat belt is there just saw one can still go for quick shopping. I know the owner uses the regular belt when he drives on the road, which is pretty regular.

this definitely is a driver's car. albeit a very serious one. which is why it's less an all-rounder than the FK2R you mentioned. The real world Megane RS are frisky. This Trophy R is more ferocious than frisky. It'll require some setup tinkering on the Ohlin's to perform on the road or touge after a trackday or it'll probably skip or snap upon enthusiastic corner carving scenarios.

---------- Post added at 04:03 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 04:00 PM ----------

Phew, Ohlins suspension with Pilot Sport Cup 2 tires!

Btw, this car does not have any audio system anymore is it? So that speaker opening in the door panel is empty only? Still has power window and mirror, does it?

I suppose this is like a hot hatch FF version of a Lotus Elise/Exige, is it? :biggrin:



Yah, that wiper delete is like an after thought.

Red rims follow Porsche style. :biggrin: If black then follow AMG A45 style.
I'd again say 18' would look more matching to the body size.

Yeah agree, this car looks more subtle but yet more matching for its purpose while the FK2R is more like ah beng in-your-face get-the hell-out-of-my-way, boy racer styling but yet less purposeful than this.
It could have came without the audio an a/c stuff. However the owner and likely all units brought in were spec with. including the RS Monitor feature that includes a touch screen nav
 

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White and Red reminds me of CVkit Myvi color combi......hhahahhahaha

Weight reduction and that include insulation materials, wah! real driver's car some more PSC2.....fuh!
 

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I'm always wondering about this one thing in modern FWD hot hatches... They are good in track and performs really well. But how do they all fare against popular FWD hatches in the 90s like EG6 or EK9 Civic? Since the old Civic's performance at track is always said to be among the best, I wonder if these modern FWD hatches are better or worse or on par with the old Civic hatches? (Well, assuming the Civics are mildly modified instead of fully stock)

Pardon me if my question is offensive to anyone here.
 

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I'm always wondering about this one thing in modern FWD hot hatches... They are good in track and performs really well. But how do they all fare against popular FWD hatches in the 90s like EG6 or EK9 Civic? Since the old Civic's performance at track is always said to be among the best, I wonder if these modern FWD hatches are better or worse or on par with the old Civic hatches? (Well, assuming the Civics are mildly modified instead of fully stock)

Pardon me if my question is offensive to anyone here.
I've thought about this pretty often especially when bench marking cars up Genting Highlands.

Power aside,
I think for one, current / new performance cars are engineered so well with learnings from the past, and cutting edge new materials to work with will undoubtedly provide much more mechanical grip than its predecessors.

The current Megane RS no matter RS250 / RS265 / RS 275 is extremely well endowed. I just can't think of any other candidates that can match the Renault's godlike handling and grip. It's ability to cancel off all understeer / torque steer while powering out early through a corner exit is just unreal. Say a similarly capable Civic, with matching power from a K24 were to contend would like require tons more elbow grease to surpass or even keep up.
 

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I've thought about this pretty often especially when bench marking cars up Genting Highlands.

Power aside,
I think for one, current / new performance cars are engineered so well with learnings from the past, and cutting edge new materials to work with will undoubtedly provide much more mechanical grip than its predecessors.

The current Megane RS no matter RS250 / RS265 / RS 275 is extremely well endowed. I just can't think of any other candidates that can match the Renault's godlike handling and grip. It's ability to cancel off all understeer / torque steer while powering out early through a corner exit is just unreal. Say a similarly capable Civic, with matching power from a K24 were to contend would like require tons more elbow grease to surpass or even keep up.
I thought the old Civics might handle better due to their lighter weight and double wishbone suspension setup. But still, in TTA results, I tend to see many Civics including FD2R scoring a better time result than Megane RS. That is probably due to driver instead of the car itself?

One thing that I need to praise the Megane RS is that despite using a rear torsion beam setup which is always criticized by many for being inferior to independent suspension setup, it still allows the Megane RS to handle superbly.
 

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I thought the old Civics might handle better due to their lighter weight and double wishbone suspension setup. But still, in TTA results, I tend to see many Civics including FD2R scoring a better time result than Megane RS. That is probably due to driver instead of the car itself?

One thing that I need to praise the Megane RS is that despite using a rear torsion beam setup which is always criticized by many for being inferior to independent suspension setup, it still allows the Megane RS to handle superbly.
I think all bets are off when it comes to time attack events where there is next to no limits in their car build. But granted, in this case the Civic likely holds more potential in this area with regards to its formidable chassis + engine to begin with and vast tuning knowledge and products that are more available.

Also, there is very little aftermarket / motorsport support for the Renaults be it here or the rest of the world.

yes, I have to agree on the torsion beam part. I was baffled when I found out after spending a week with it. Truly amazing how they developed such a chassis even with the use of primitive torsion beam

I suppose the Renault is more a track day car / fast road car as opposed to being a track car candidate. But out of the box, it just is a turn key solution to being king of the road.
 

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I think all bets are off when it comes to time attack events where there is next to no limits in their car build. But granted, in this case the Civic likely holds more potential in this area with regards to its formidable chassis + engine to begin with and vast tuning knowledge and products that are more available.

Also, there is very little aftermarket / motorsport support for the Renaults be it here or the rest of the world.

yes, I have to agree on the torsion beam part. I was baffled when I found out after spending a week with it. Truly amazing how they developed such a chassis even with the use of primitive torsion beam

I suppose the Renault is more a track day car / fast road car as opposed to being a track car candidate. But out of the box, it just is a turn key solution to being king of the road.
So I guess for tuning/mod potential, Civic is the better one. But for the better overall package right out of factory, it should be the Megane RS.

Apparently torsion beam is getting more popularity nowadays. Even FK2R uses torsion beam just like the previous FN2R. I wonder if in the future, are we going to see hot hatch manufacturers continuing their development in the direction of torsion beam or multi link/ double wishbone.
 

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Probably bores down to cheaper manufacturing, so can cost down.....
But these hot hatches are not exactly cheap to begin with... Perhaps they diverted the cost to elsewhere such as interior creature comforts... I wish there are still more cars being developed like WRX STI and Lancer Evolution kind of approach where most of the cost went to the functional mechanical bits instead of aesthetics.
 

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But these hot hatches are not exactly cheap to begin with... Perhaps they diverted the cost to elsewhere such as interior creature comforts... I wish there are still more cars being developed like WRX STI and Lancer Evolution kind of approach where most of the cost went to the functional mechanical bits instead of aesthetics.
Wah like you're reading my mind bro! :biggrin:
 

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Wah like you're reading my mind bro! :biggrin:
Hahaha, good to know that there are still those who feel like this. Being 23 years old this year, I have not yet experienced any cars like these myself which is probably why I hope that manufacturers will continue making such cars so that I can be able to try some of them in the future instead of just trying out the older models.

Many of those in their 40s and 50s will probably say that they had enough taste of such cars in their youth which might be the reason why they are not going for such cars anymore. As for the youths around my age, most of them place emphasis on interior creature comforts and external design more than performance. I have also heard of some who knows a bit about cars saying old manual transmission are obsolete as now people just shift with their fingers via paddle shifters. To me, it is not about shifting manually or not (yes, being able to shift manually still matters) but is more about the joy and experience in releasing the throttle pedal, pressing the clutch pedal, shifting the gear knob into the next gate itself and engage in full throttle again after that.
 

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Hahaha, good to know that there are still those who feel like this. Being 23 years old this year, I have not yet experienced any cars like these myself which is probably why I hope that manufacturers will continue making such cars so that I can be able to try some of them in the future instead of just trying out the older models.

Many of those in their 40s and 50s will probably say that they had enough taste of such cars in their youth which might be the reason why they are not going for such cars anymore. As for the youths around my age, most of them place emphasis on interior creature comforts and external design more than performance. I have also heard of some who knows a bit about cars saying old manual transmission are obsolete as now people just shift with their fingers via paddle shifters. To me, it is not about shifting manually or not (yes, being able to shift manually still matters) but is more about the joy and experience in releasing the throttle pedal, pressing the clutch pedal, shifting the gear knob into the next gate itself and engage in full throttle again after that.
haha, you are right on the 40s and 50s. I met an old friend of my mechanic and while having lunch we talk of old times. He was quite into some racing in his younger days and modded his car to be very low and now driving a SUV. This is his very words. Those days we mod our cars as low as possible, now that age have caught up our cars now we love them as high as possible.....lol:biggrin:

Driving manual is skill, paddle shift are considered aided :driver:.....hhahhahhaha:biggrin:
 

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haha, you are right on the 40s and 50s. I met an old friend of my mechanic and while having lunch we talk of old times. He was quite into some racing in his younger days and modded his car to be very low and now driving a SUV. This is his very words. Those days we mod our cars as low as possible, now that age have caught up our cars now we love them as high as possible.....lol:biggrin:

Driving manual is skill, paddle shift are considered aided :driver:.....hhahhahhaha:biggrin:
I won't be surprised that I might be getting something like a SUV when I get old. Or I might consider something like the mix of large sedan with performance such as Legacy turbo or Accord Euro R. People change as they got older, haha.

Paddle shifters feels lacking since you don't really need to release the throttle and step on it again. I always enjoy the sudden kicking feeling right after I release the clutch pedal and stepping on the throttle again after shifting. That sudden surge of power.

Since you are driving manual and you are in KL, is it really that bad being stuck in traffic jam while driving manual or you are already used to it?
 

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I won't be surprised that I might be getting something like a SUV when I get old. Or I might consider something like the mix of large sedan with performance such as Legacy turbo or Accord Euro R. People change as they got older, haha.

Paddle shifters feels lacking since you don't really need to release the throttle and step on it again. I always enjoy the sudden kicking feeling right after I release the clutch pedal and stepping on the throttle again after shifting. That sudden surge of power.

Since you are driving manual and you are in KL, is it really that bad being stuck in traffic jam while driving manual or you are already used to it?
You need to drive a 2WD power car then. AWD power not as wild.....hhahhahaha

Used to it but I seldom in KL, PJ not as bad.....:biggrin:
 

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You need to drive a 2WD power car then. AWD power not as wild.....hhahhahaha

Used to it but I seldom in KL, PJ not as bad.....:biggrin:
Well but AWD can take on a lot of power and once you have a lot then it will be wild ride also. But yah, AWD gives more traction and control.
 

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You need to drive a 2WD power car then. AWD power not as wild.....hhahhahaha

Used to it but I seldom in KL, PJ not as bad.....:biggrin:
I thought AWD like WRX STI and Evo will be even more brutal because of their acceleration.

I sat on a EG hatch with B18C (not type R) before and when the driver shifts, I can't even hold myself properly to my seat. My whole body just lurch forward towards the dashboard although I tried avoid that.

I thought PJ had bad jams too since it is densely populated...

Well but AWD can take on a lot of power and once you have a lot then it will be wild ride also. But yah, AWD gives more traction and control.
And better start off acceleration too. :biggrin:
 

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I thought AWD like WRX STI and Evo will be even more brutal because of their acceleration.

I sat on a EG hatch with B18C (not type R) before and when the driver shifts, I can't even hold myself properly to my seat. My whole body just lurch forward towards the dashboard although I tried avoid that.

I thought PJ had bad jams too since it is densely populated...



And better start off acceleration too. :biggrin:
If both cars of same power, one delivering to 2WD and one to AWD, the one with 2WD will be wild as all power going to these two wheels only. STi are brutal in acceleration but with control, but if power deliver only to the two front wheel it will spin and pull. That was the feeling when I first got my VR back after transplant. First month or so have to be careful powering out from T junction.....lol:biggrin:
Yes, jam here and there, but I know the side routes, if not there is always waze :driver:.....hhahhahah:biggrin:
 

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Yes 2WD you will feel more brutality and torque *COUGHS* steer *COUGHS*, definitely need a LSD installed
Once you got used to it, just be careful :biggrin:
 

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If both cars of same power, one delivering to 2WD and one to AWD, the one with 2WD will be wild as all power going to these two wheels only. STi are brutal in acceleration but with control, but if power deliver only to the two front wheel it will spin and pull. That was the feeling when I first got my VR back after transplant. First month or so have to be careful powering out from T junction.....lol:biggrin:
Yes, jam here and there, but I know the side routes, if not there is always waze :driver:.....hhahhahah:biggrin:
Yes 2WD you will feel more brutality and torque *COUGHS* steer *COUGHS*, definitely need a LSD installed
Once you got used to it, just be careful :biggrin:
2 days ago, tyre shop boss told me about his experiences in modding 4G63T engine in Wira and Perdana. He told me if want to play with such engines, need jaga driveshaft when it comes with LSD because easy kong. I ask why he said because they are originally designed for 4WD use, so when lock gearbox to 2WD, there will be more stress on driveshaft. True about this?
 

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2 days ago, tyre shop boss told me about his experiences in modding 4G63T engine in Wira and Perdana. He told me if want to play with such engines, need jaga driveshaft when it comes with LSD because easy kong. I ask why he said because they are originally designed for 4WD use, so when lock gearbox to 2WD, there will be more stress on driveshaft. True about this?
Even without LSD also, yup it will stress the driveshaft for sure :biggrin:
 

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I sat on a EG hatch with B18C (not type R) before and when the driver shifts, I can't even hold myself properly to my seat. My whole body just lurch forward towards the dashboard although I tried avoid that.
A passenger that is lunging too abruptly forwards in between shifts equates to bad manual shifting driver
 

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A passenger that is lunging too abruptly forwards in between shifts equates to bad manual shifting driver
I read his post again and yes should not go forward. My colleague when he sat in my car and when I accelerate he cannot reach the dashboard because the force pushing him onto the seats.....hhahahha
 

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2 days ago, tyre shop boss told me about his experiences in modding 4G63T engine in Wira and Perdana. He told me if want to play with such engines, need jaga driveshaft when it comes with LSD because easy kong. I ask why he said because they are originally designed for 4WD use, so when lock gearbox to 2WD, there will be more stress on driveshaft. True about this?
Mine without LSD so far okay, anyway 16 years already sure got replace before.....:driver:
 

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A passenger that is lunging too abruptly forwards in between shifts equates to bad manual shifting driver
I read his post again and yes should not go forward. My colleague when he sat in my car and when I accelerate he cannot reach the dashboard because the force pushing him onto the seats.....hhahahha
Actually I only lunge forward when he release his throttle during hard acceleration and engaging the clutch for the next gear. Otherwise when he is driving normally, everything is fine.

Mine without LSD so far okay, anyway 16 years already sure got replace before.....:driver:
Yours mostly still stock isn't it? The tyre guy said if use 4G63T, better remain stock or mod only minor things to ensure reliability.
 

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Actually I only lunge forward when he release his throttle during hard acceleration and engaging the clutch for the next gear. Otherwise when he is driving normally, everything is fine.



Yours mostly still stock isn't it? The tyre guy said if use 4G63T, better remain stock or mod only minor things to ensure reliability.
But when change gear should not lunge forward....

Yes, is 4G63T but welded to run 2WD mah! so all power goes to two front wheels
 

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Yes, is 4G63T but welded to run 2WD mah! so all power goes to two front wheels
You should use the AWD drive train but then decouple the front and make it RWD, that would be even more wild! :biggrin: You'll turn your VR into a drift machine! :driver:
 

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Actually I only lunge forward when he release his throttle during hard acceleration and engaging the clutch for the next gear. Otherwise when he is driving normally, everything is fine.
I take back my statement to be fair since I have no idea how severe it was.

It's just when I read what you described, i thought it was pretty bad. i've seen too many drivers not realizing this and have permanently adopted the wrong technique. Transition between shifts is inevitable but can be made smoother. It is up to a driver to ensure his / her passengers feel pleasant.

My advice is, the faster and harder you go, the quicker the shifts need to be. Likewise, when driving slow or when cruising, shifts can be slower. It's not so much the shift knob but the footwork mostly
 

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I think my manual shifting skill is pretty shitty now already! :biggrin:
Too long driving auto and only once a year for a few weeks driving manual.
 

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But when change gear should not lunge forward....

Yes, is 4G63T but welded to run 2WD mah! so all power goes to two front wheels
Well, the feeling is like when he is accelerating, I am leaning my back on the seat. When he lets go of the throttle, you the kind of feel like the acceleration g force is gone and you are like still moving forward? Like when you are braking too abruptly and you find yourself lunging forward. Something like that but less severe than sudden emergency braking.

But still stock ma, not so much stress maybe? The tyre guy was saying if you are running 2WD and still doing intense mod like larger intercooler, changing pistons, changing into larger turbo, driveshaft sure very easy kong.

I take back my statement to be fair since I have no idea how severe it was.

It's just when I read what you described, i thought it was pretty bad. i've seen too many drivers not realizing this and have permanently adopted the wrong technique. Transition between shifts is inevitable but can be made smoother. It is up to a driver to ensure his / her passengers feel pleasant.

My advice is, the faster and harder you go, the quicker the shifts need to be. Likewise, when driving slow or when cruising, shifts can be slower. It's not so much the shift knob but the footwork mostly
I think the lunging is probably due to the sudden lost of acceleration when he releases the throttle.

Quicker shifting while going fast is to prevent speed lost and rpm from dropping too much isn't it? Shifting smoothly is like trying to balance out your foot timing with the clutch and accelerator pedal. I always will try to time them simultaneously to be like when one pedal is down, the other will be up.
 

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I think the lunging is probably due to the sudden lost of acceleration when he releases the throttle.

Quicker shifting while going fast is to prevent speed lost and rpm from dropping too much isn't it? Shifting smoothly is like trying to balance out your foot timing with the clutch and accelerator pedal. I always will try to time them simultaneously to be like when one pedal is down, the other will be up.
Good manual transmission drivers can minimize this sensation. The rate in which the car is accelerating fully determines their shift speed.

The sad thing is some drivers stick to that one way when operating the clutch and foot pedals. This often causes an unpleasant ride.

The trick is:

  1. Do everything at the same time - clutch shift throttle
  2. It's mostly in the legs and foot pedals
  3. To use equal amounts of throttle and clutch
    1. Simply put, how fast the throttle is depressed is how fast the clutch is released.
    2. Although equal force is crucial, both the clutch and throttle pedal travel / force / bite point defers. One needs to determine where the pedal sweet spot is to achieve equal timing and force
  4. To determine where the clutch bite point is.
    1. Some people depress the clutch pedal entirely when shifting without taking into account the free space between zero and bite point. This gap will effect smoothness significantly.
    2. determine clutch bite point by releasing the clutch when in gear. Once determined, one should shift within the optimized clutch pedal travel.
I made a video from when I doing a warm up before my race qualifying. I hope it'll help anyone who wishes to improve their footwork

(please ignore the left foot braking scenes. It is generally not needed. This is a special case. The pads were new and I found the brakes in this altezza require some tapping to tighten the brakes before hard braking)

<iframe src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/RRdY9mWHqWo" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" width="700"></iframe>
 

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You should use the AWD drive train but then decouple the front and make it RWD, that would be even more wild! :biggrin: You'll turn your VR into a drift machine! :driver:
Too costly, have to half cut the rear also....:rolleyes:
 

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Good manual transmission drivers can minimize this sensation. The rate in which the car is accelerating fully determines their shift speed.

The sad thing is some drivers stick to that one way when operating the clutch and foot pedals. This often causes an unpleasant ride.

The trick is:

  1. Do everything at the same time - clutch shift throttle
  2. It's mostly in the legs and foot pedals
  3. To use equal amounts of throttle and clutch
    1. Simply put, how fast the throttle is depressed is how fast the clutch is released.
    2. Although equal force is crucial, both the clutch and throttle pedal travel / force / bite point defers. One needs to determine where the pedal sweet spot is to achieve equal timing and force
  4. To determine where the clutch bite point is.
    1. Some people depress the clutch pedal entirely when shifting without taking into account the free space between zero and bite point. This gap will effect smoothness significantly.
    2. determine clutch bite point by releasing the clutch when in gear. Once determined, one should shift within the optimized clutch pedal travel.
I made a video from when I doing a warm up before my race qualifying. I hope it'll help anyone who wishes to improve their footwork

(please ignore the left foot braking scenes. It is generally not needed. This is a special case. The pads were new and I found the brakes in this altezza require some tapping to tighten the brakes before hard braking)

<iframe src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/RRdY9mWHqWo" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" width="700"></iframe>

Nice footwork and video but I noticed your left is always resting on the clutch pedal and never on the foot rest ya. Is there a specific reason?

Btw this is also another amazing footwork from the great Senna, heel & toeing and blipping the throttle using loafers in the NSX, at 1 point heel & toeing as if balancing the brake & the gas in the fast 130R. :driver:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96ekbvjyr0g
 

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Nice footwork and video but I noticed your left is always resting on the clutch pedal and never on the foot rest ya. Is there a specific reason?

Btw this is also another amazing footwork from the great Senna, heel & toeing and blipping the throttle using loafers in the NSX, at 1 point heel & toeing as if balancing the brake & the gas in the fast 130R. :driver:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96ekbvjyr0g
No real reasons to be honest, also depends on the car driven. It's also a choice perhaps. Come to think of it I hardly use the foot rest

Senna's video never ceases to amaze everytime I watch it



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No real reasons to be honest, also depends on the car driven. It's also a choice perhaps. Come to think of it I hardly use the foot rest

Senna's video never ceases to amaze everytime I watch it



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If driving on highway or places that do not require gear change then can use foot rest, but in racing almost changing gear every now and then how to use foot rest.....lol:biggrin:
 

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If driving on highway or places that do not require gear change then can use foot rest, but in racing almost changing gear every now and then how to use foot rest.....lol:biggrin:
yeah although that is true, many drivers do use the foot rest actually. But like you said, I hardly find a reason to, maybe during the 2 straights at sepang that's it. Other drivers return their left foot to the rest everytime they are off the clutch, i consider it a preference
 

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If driving on highway or places that do not require gear change then can use foot rest, but in racing almost changing gear every now and then how to use foot rest.....lol:biggrin:
Not really true, you look at that Senna's video, he always returned his left to the foot rest. If you like to watch Australian V8 Supercars, then they have many videos of their footwork and you can also see they still use the foot rest when not engaging the clutch. Even many rally drivers also still use the foot rest. I suppose like Tom said, just preference only then. I just worried if resting on the clutch all the time then will wear out the clutch faster but I suppose if already used to it hence the feel of the left foot is already very matched with the clutch pedal free play then should be no issue.
 

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Impressive driving and shifting skills you have Tom. Do you drive a manual car daily? From what I know, you owned a Mini and a V12 BMW.
 

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Not really true, you look at that Senna's video, he always returned his left to the foot rest. If you like to watch Australian V8 Supercars, then they have many videos of their footwork and you can also see they still use the foot rest when not engaging the clutch. Even many rally drivers also still use the foot rest. I suppose like Tom said, just preference only then. I just worried if resting on the clutch all the time then will wear out the clutch faster but I suppose if already used to it hence the feel of the left foot is already very matched with the clutch pedal free play then should be no issue.
I can't say if it would apply to all cars as of yet. Perhaps in GT or V8 Supercar platforms, one may need to consider the footrest not so much to rest the feet but a form of support for high G corners.

In my case, when racing in less extreme touring cars I don't find a need to leave the clutch pedal for now

It is still okay to gently rest on the clutch pedal since its not being activated. Race clutch are firmer as well.

Since we are on this topic, with reference from the tips I provided above on determining the bite point of the clutch.

if you noticed from my video there is a slight prod on the clutch pedal before initiating a shift. That's pre loading the clutch to reduce as much free gap as possible. I Hope this would help anyone to improve their footwork

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Impressive driving and shifting skills you have Tom. Do you drive a manual car daily? From what I know, you owned a Mini and a V12 BMW.
Thank you renesis. I used to drive a manual daily. It is still my first choice although these days the MINI is hibernating and is undergoing mild restoration.

I had a manual E30 and E34 BMW although the E34 has been converted to an automatic following the V12 conversion.





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I think my account have some problem. Whenever I am logged in to ZTH, I can't see other people's signature. But when I did not login, I can see it.
Thanks for the notification, let me give it a check

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I can't say if it would apply to all cars as of yet. Perhaps in GT or V8 Supercar platforms, one may need to consider the footrest not so much to rest the feet but a form of support for high G corners.


It is still okay to gently rest on the clutch pedal since its not being activated. Race clutch are firmer as well.
Was about to say that on the foot rest thing....:driver:

I also leave foot on clutch most of the time. I have adjusted clutch to have enough free play for this...:smokin:
 

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I can't say if it would apply to all cars as of yet. Perhaps in GT or V8 Supercar platforms, one may need to consider the footrest not so much to rest the feet but a form of support for high G corners.

In my case, when racing in less extreme touring cars I don't find a need to leave the clutch pedal for now

It is still okay to gently rest on the clutch pedal since its not being activated. Race clutch are firmer as well.

Since we are on this topic, with reference from the tips I provided above on determining the bite point of the clutch.

if you noticed from my video there is a slight prod on the clutch pedal before initiating a shift. That's pre loading the clutch to reduce as much free gap as possible. I Hope this would help anyone to improve their footwork

Sent from my SM-N9208 using Tapatalk
About firmer race clutch, how does the clutch on this Trophy R felt like? Stiff?

Yeah, I do notice you prod the clutch slightly every time before you shift.

Thank you renesis. I used to drive a manual daily. It is still my first choice although these days the MINI is hibernating and is undergoing mild restoration.

I had a manual E30 and E34 BMW although the E34 has been converted to an automatic following the V12 conversion.





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But why automatic in a powerful V12? Or the engine cannot be mated to a manual?

Thanks for the notification, let me give it a check

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Another problem here is that the search function seems to have been removed. Is it a bug? I had to use google to search for older topics in zth.
 

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About firmer race clutch, how does the clutch on this Trophy R felt like? Stiff?

Yeah, I do notice you prod the clutch slightly every time before you shift.

But why automatic in a powerful V12? Or the engine cannot be mated to a manual?

Another problem here is that the search function seems to have been removed. Is it a bug? I had to use google to search for older topics in zth.
The clutch on the Trophy R is standard issue Megane RS which is pretty light. Type-R clutch is just a teaspoon heavier. Very very liveable.

The V12 is an auto simply because it came with the halfcut. I had 2 V12s from the 750il that had seen better days. I now have the same M70 B50 V12 engine but from the 850i instead. With less than 40K miles on it i believe.

I am still sourcing for a 6 speed manual from the 850i to complete the project.

The standard auto that came with the 750il is a 4 speed. hardly brings out the best of the 300hp 450nm V12 but is buttery smooth

Search and Forums Issue

which search function do you use? the one on the top right corner? It's working apparently.
Although it doesn't do 3-letter or less search unfortunately
 

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The clutch on the Trophy R is standard issue Megane RS which is pretty light. Type-R clutch is just a teaspoon heavier. Very very liveable.

The V12 is an auto simply because it came with the halfcut. I had 2 V12s from the 750il that had seen better days. I now have the same M70 B50 V12 engine but from the 850i instead. With less than 40K miles on it i believe.

I am still sourcing for a 6 speed manual from the 850i to complete the project.

The standard auto that came with the 750il is a 4 speed. hardly brings out the best of the 300hp 450nm V12 but is buttery smooth

Search and Forums Issue

which search function do you use? the one on the top right corner? It's working apparently.
Although it doesn't do 3-letter or less search unfortunately
So, I guess it is fine to get a high powered manual car as long as the clutch remains stock. I used to thought that high powered cars needs a stiff clutch to prevent slip. I've tried racing clutch before in a B18C EG hatch and FC3S which feels terrible to me because they are so stiff. Almost feels like 2 or 3 times heavier than clutch you find in ordinary cars.

Your M70B50 is a 5 litre V12 but gives out only 300hp. With such displacement advantage, I believe it can surely put out even more hp if it is modded. Nonetheless, that is an interesting engine because we don't normally hear about other V12 engines in Malaysia other than the usual Ferrari or Lamborghini V12.

The search function that I normally use is the one on the forums homepage. The one that used to be above the "Most Popular Forums (7 days)" and "Latest Posts". But it is gone now.
 

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But these hot hatches are not exactly cheap to begin with... Perhaps they diverted the cost to elsewhere such as interior creature comforts... I wish there are still more cars being developed like WRX STI and Lancer Evolution kind of approach where most of the cost went to the functional mechanical bits instead of aesthetics.
If all companies did that - then all companies would end up like Gumpert. Excellent car, zero aesthetics and comfort, bankrupt and broke.

I think my manual shifting skill is pretty shitty now already! :biggrin:
Too long driving auto and only once a year for a few weeks driving manual.
No worries, nothing a PDK or paddle shifter can't solve!