On Board Civic Type R FD2 in Nov HPC Event

fabianyee

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What i do and try to practice is called PUSH-PULL technique which i think commonly used in UK on both road, advanced driving courses as well as sedan car racing there.

As you can see from video, i'm still here to learn and practice as much as i can during driving time. My push-pull is still far from perfect and need a little more driving time hence you see the video like i'm shuffling quite a bit.

My hands are most of the time at 9-3 and i had to push-pull at tighter corners as i do not want to cross hand when i know the corner is tighter. In track i have been driving most of time on track cars only and these track cars i drive normally do not have power steering and turning ratios are not as short hence i do need to turn more on corners with more effort as well.

This is the very 1st time i took a road going car down to sepang since 2004 and if you had sat next to me on the 1st session, you will see how much movement i had as i kept forgetting this car has power steering and requering less steering. I just kept laughing at myself with the huge steering input and reaction i had on this car.

If i don't understand wrong, what you practice at 9-3 is called FIXED-HAND. This is widely used and can be used mostly in single-seater race car as well as rear-wheel drive car like the Lotus Elise where throttle input can help to steer the car and hand is normally fixed 9-3 due to the quick reaction you require when driving to the limits counter-steering all the way through long bends like 5, 12.

On a FF car like the CTR and my track DC2, i think it is going to be very tough to steer and enter tight corners correctly if i stayed Fixed-Hand 9-3.

Maybe Faisal can chip in on these and driving the Proton Satria R3 with power-steering round SIC. I haven't driven one yet so i don't know if the Satria can drive round SIC at 9-3 fixed hand.

It is interesting to know more, so if you guys see the video and know where i can improve is good as i always find myself too slow in corners compare to the MSS guys. Hence, i have bought all this bracket and stands for video so i can watch back to see my mistakes.
Like I have mentioned, there are few schools of thots on hand placement. I haven't driven a FF car on Sepang, only been driving FR cars on Sepang so my experiences on handplacement is more on 9 3 position especially so when I need to countersteer fast.

It's always good to share different driving techniques and experiences for everyone to learn from. Then it's up to them to see which suits their driving style and their car better.
 

fabianyee

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From the video it look like it is very very close. It is close but not as close as it seemed like.

I think it is the way the camera was place right at the rear windscreen and the very long dashboard and short front end make it look even worse and closer.

I was actually driving a little closer on 2nd session but after a few unexpected braking action on corners where i normally don't brake and stayed a little further for more room for corrections.

This is also my 1st HPC event, and were initially told like the Group 3 is for experience driver only so i assumed that most people on group 3 would know the track fairly well if not better than me.
Yes, group 3 is for experienced drivers just that experienced drivers may still make mistake as there push along. All of us still using road tyres mah, some road tyres lose grip progressively, some snap abruptly. Anyway, just a reminder on giving some space after seeing the video. It's also hard to say how close based on the video as cameras can sometimes play tricks...

The objective of HPC is to let everyone enjoy track driving in a more controlled enviroment. So we stressed more on safety for everyone as often as we could.
 

chris2000

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Like I have mentioned, there are few schools of thots on hand placement. I haven't driven a FF car on Sepang, only been driving FR cars on Sepang so my experiences on handplacement is more on 9 3 position especially so when I need to countersteer fast.

It's always good to share different driving techniques and experiences for everyone to learn from. Then it's up to them to see which suits their driving style and their car better.
I never really driven a FR car in sic except once on my own previous E46 driven very slowly just trying and one lap in a lotus courtesy of Lotus Malaysia, again very slowly as it is not my car and i not familiar with the lotus.

I did notice fixed hand 9-3 position very often too on FR cars. Like when my principal from Japan in-board in their S2000. They were indeed mostly on fixed hand as they were counteering very fast but slightly only round the corners during the limit of the S2000.

It is good to learn and hope one day to get a chance to drive a FR faster on track
 

chris2000

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Yes, group 3 is for experienced drivers just that experienced drivers may still make mistake as there push along. All of us still using road tyres mah, some road tyres lose grip progressively, some snap abruptly. Anyway, just a reminder on giving some space after seeing the video. It's also hard to say how close based on the video as cameras can sometimes play tricks...

The objective of HPC is to let everyone enjoy track driving in a more controlled enviroment. So we stressed more on safety for everyone as often as we could.
I had hell of a fun in HPC as it is more safe than a normal sunday track day. A full track would have been more fun though. :rofl:

Safety is very important for me. If you know me better, my friends always say i'm too cautious and take too much precaution hence i'm never too fast during a race. haha...
 

shazmi3

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That one my friend's ori EG6 running on stock 98 spec B18C-R block and head with:-

J's Racing 4-2-1 extractor
J's Racing SPL Shifter bush
EBC brakes all round
Skunk2 shortshifter + Billet gear knob
Skunk2 Gen1 Intake
Custom gear ratio from ME :idea:
There are more parts but above are just some i can remember now.

This car is no joke as it is as fast as FD2 on straight. But now it is going for a head job and a re-tune. It should be much faster on the next track day. :biggrin:
thanks for the info...that car is fast!!
 

faisal

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Chris,

Lotus, Proton, Porsche, BMW Driver Training all now preach the 9-3 aka "Fixed Hand" steering position with cross-over. Regardless in a FF, FR, RR, MR or 4WD car.

They reason that, if you use push-pull, should you be in a "hairy" situation, it would take time to move your hands. Plus, with today's ultra high performance radial tires coupled with stiffer chasssis & suspension set ups, cars react so much faster.

Also with 9-3/Fixed hands, everytime your steering returns to the straight ahead position, your tires are straight ahead too. This is especially important on slippery surfaces, when the caster angle of the front wheels can't help the steering "return" to straight ahead position.

The Satria R3 (roadcar) can do a whole lap of SIC with the above method. Not much steering lock needed on a neutral handling FF car like the Satria R3 or The FD2 (or DC5) roadcar, even at T1/2 and T9. Max steering wheel angle was 90' (from straight ahead)

I was given a chance to drive a FD2 CTR recently and with power assistance, my hands were at the 9-3 of the steering postion. And the OE LSD really helped the car turn in sharply on the throttle. yummy. Though the ride was so jarring, my head was bobbing like a "noddy". And it nearly made me sick when I sat in the back :puke:

Anyway, T. Djan & Faidzil Alang would probably slap my hands if I'm caught doing push-pull style :shot: . hahaha. But as I had karted for so long b4 it was easier to stick to the "new 9-3 style".

Of course there are the old hands like Walter Röhrl :adore: who still drive the Push-Pull style and yet can lap the Nuerburgring in under 8 mins. Or local Past Masters like YS Khong, who do Push/Pull and can still teach a trick or two :biggrin:

It takes time to adjust. I recall some of the 30 HPC Intructors that participated in Proton's Advance Driver Training also had problems adjusting to the 9-3/Fixed Hand style.
 
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AlucarD

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Chris, email address please. Will e-mail the hi res pics to you.
 

mist

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Chris, thanks for sharing your videos, was entertaining =)

anyhow, quick question - do you have J's racing stuff in stock for the FD2? I'm taking delivery tomorrow........ =D
 

- J f D -

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Chris, awesome driving. Favourite'd the videos for future reference =D

How does the FD2's chassis compare to your track dc2?
 

chris2000

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alucard,

Can email me to [email protected]


mist,

Thanks bro. Check your PM.


JFD,

To begin with my DC2 chassis is not that great. EK9 body i feel better. Or maybe it is just my DC2.

The FD2 as a street car has a really great chassis to start a foundation for mods. I think the chassis is stiff and can take much more power. Chassis flex is very minimal.

Now only the suspension is a little hard for street but a little soft on track. hehe..
 

chris2000

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faisal,

Thanks for the post.

Been driving my old Satria Gti and my DC2 both with manual rack, is really hard to drive fixed hand as i will end up cross hand. These cars when i was trained and practice with does not turn in as quick or sharp like my FD2. Hmm... Next HPC event i will try the fixed hand method and see how it goes... Will not try it on next week event with my DC2. :)

When is Proton R3/Lotus going to have any advance driving courses?? Can you inform me when one is available coz it is good to go for refresher course as well as learning new driving tips from different schools...

Cheers :)
 

chris2000

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mist,

please call me or pm me. There is a FD2 gathering tonight but need to confirm participation very soon. sorry for the rush.
 

mist

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oops, didn't see this until just only - can't access ZTH at work hehe.

oh well, have fun! :)
 

moon*

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hohoho.. JFD spotted :D

eheh..
nice vids man..can wait to try out :P
 

DDgreystar

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chris....

dun mind i side track a bit......was thinking of ordering a fd2r as well....but heard dat the sound prooofing was quite poor for a fd2r.....how do u find it ?
 

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