NA to Evo 4 turbo

brokenjars

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brokenjars

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Hi guys, currently I'm interested to play turbo. Now playing NA car, neo vvl engine.
Was looking at a EVO 4 waja.
Since I'm new, I don't know much about turbo. So asking for help to understand the car specification.
Also need some clarifications on few things.
Engine stock evo 4 with evo 4 gearbox LSD locked. Evo 6 ecu.

1) Petrol tank 4wd evo 4 --> to get accurate fuel reading.
2) Engine evo 4, ecu evo 6 --> He said due to evo 6 ecu can adjust and remap, so no need management. He made the car exhaust to spit fire when high ram.. Is this true about evo 6 ecu better and is it good for the engine to spit fire lol.
3) He didn't use wastegate due to already setting ecu to boost at only 1.3-1.4 bar. He said its safer to avoid wastegate complications if it spoilt.
4) He installed speed density rom map sensor and airtemp sensor. Is this good?
5) have Sheepdog blowoff. What does this do?

Also, what kind of FC am I expecting out of a evo 4 engine lol. Leg is moderately heavy.

Thanks
 

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Hi guys, currently I'm interested to play turbo. Now playing NA car, neo vvl engine.
Was looking at a EVO 4 waja.
Since I'm new, I don't know much about turbo. So asking for help to understand the car specification.
Also need some clarifications on few things.
Engine stock evo 4 with evo 4 gearbox LSD locked. Evo 6 ecu.

1) Petrol tank 4wd evo 4 --> to get accurate fuel reading.
2) Engine evo 4, ecu evo 6 --> He said due to evo 6 ecu can adjust and remap, so no need management. He made the car exhaust to spit fire when high ram.. Is this true about evo 6 ecu better and is it good for the engine to spit fire lol.
3) He didn't use wastegate due to already setting ecu to boost at only 1.3-1.4 bar. He said its safer to avoid wastegate complications if it spoilt.
4) He installed speed density rom map sensor and airtemp sensor. Is this good?
5) have Sheepdog blowoff. What does this do?

Also, what kind of FC am I expecting out of a evo 4 engine lol. Leg is moderately heavy.

Thanks
Bro, I know a little about modified mix-and-match turbo cars.

- FC for modified turbo cars probably at best 7km/L (totally off boost). If heavy footed like you (and me) you'll expect 3-5km/L at best. On a completely stock turbo AWD Evo you're expecting at best 8km/L anyway, average you'll get 6-7km/L. Petrol prices is cheap now so it's manageable, but once petrol goes back up you'll want to drive less. RON97 only (or RON100).

- I don't believe in retrofitting different ECUs for different engines, I'm an advocate for stand-alone ECUs if you're gonna do mix-and-match. But to be honest I know next to nothing about Evo 4 and 6 ECUs and what it does or doesn't do. But I'll bet not everything is working 100%.

- I disagree with his wastegate explanation. It's true if your boost is only 1.4 bar you don't really need a wastegate but what happens if you have boost spikes? GG turbo.

- A blow-off valve is a pressure release system meaning take load off the turbo when the throttle is suddenly closed otherwise you'll get turbo surge which shortens turbo lifespan. Sheepdog is just the brand.

- I dunno about the map sensor thingy. It's all about what your ECU uses for running. If it uses air temp sensors and speed density rom maps, then that's what you need. You'll need whatever sensors your ECU needs to run.
 

lsm1991

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lsm1991

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Hi guys, currently I'm interested to play turbo. Now playing NA car, neo vvl engine.
Was looking at a EVO 4 waja.
Since I'm new, I don't know much about turbo. So asking for help to understand the car specification.
Also need some clarifications on few things.
Engine stock evo 4 with evo 4 gearbox LSD locked. Evo 6 ecu.

1) Petrol tank 4wd evo 4 --> to get accurate fuel reading.
2) Engine evo 4, ecu evo 6 --> He said due to evo 6 ecu can adjust and remap, so no need management. He made the car exhaust to spit fire when high ram.. Is this true about evo 6 ecu better and is it good for the engine to spit fire lol.
3) He didn't use wastegate due to already setting ecu to boost at only 1.3-1.4 bar. He said its safer to avoid wastegate complications if it spoilt.
4) He installed speed density rom map sensor and airtemp sensor. Is this good?
5) have Sheepdog blowoff. What does this do?

Also, what kind of FC am I expecting out of a evo 4 engine lol. Leg is moderately heavy.

Thanks
1) no idea
2) yes, e4 u cannot remap, e6 (iirc from 5 and up) remapable... spitting fire, never actually a good thing if you're talking about longevity.. so yes its better in the sense you its tunable
3) i assume he screwed around its preload, no idea here frankly, wastegates are imo a better option.
4)speed density vs maf... just a diferent setup and a common mod, there are pros and cons. imo stock tu indah....i was told ppl go sd lateron as they start to produce silly power figures. again no exp here...
5) its like any other blow of valve, it makes noises when u let off....

dont mean to offend, but when i saw question 5, it be best to bring a friend who knows these evo engines along to view the car.... typical checks, make sure it idles right all the time (sd setup + his map, god knows what he has done to it), evo 4 engines, check for crank walk, some say it aint an issue, i say it is...

when u look at these kinds of cars, forget fc...
 

brokenjars

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brokenjars

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1) no idea
2) yes, e4 u cannot remap, e6 (iirc from 5 and up) remapable... spitting fire, never actually a good thing if you're talking about longevity.. so yes its better in the sense you its tunable
3) i assume he screwed around its preload, no idea here frankly, wastegates are imo a better option.
4)speed density vs maf... just a diferent setup and a common mod, there are pros and cons. imo stock tu indah....i was told ppl go sd lateron as they start to produce silly power figures. again no exp here...
5) its like any other blow of valve, it makes noises when u let off....

dont mean to offend, but when i saw question 5, it be best to bring a friend who knows these evo engines along to view the car.... typical checks, make sure it idles right all the time (sd setup + his map, god knows what he has done to it), evo 4 engines, check for crank walk, some say it aint an issue, i say it is...

when u look at these kinds of cars, forget fc...
Ah yeah i never had any turbo engine..best to bring a friend i guess.
Alright will get it tuned again if i buy the car.

Standard evo 4 dont have a wastegate right? Is it necessary to installed one then?

How to check for crank walk in an evo?
 

lsm1991

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lsm1991

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Ah yeah i never had any turbo engine..best to bring a friend i guess.
Alright will get it tuned again if i buy the car.

Standard evo 4 dont have a wastegate right? Is it necessary to installed one then?

How to check for crank walk in an evo?
whoa.... turbo engine sure ade wastegate, the internal wastegate.... its already there, i guess the bugger main with the actuation ke ape...

crank walk.... this you might need to read up, lots of articles.... if you have an oil pressure reading i think thats the easiest way to tell initially short of trying to shove the crank around
 

brokenjars

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brokenjars

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whoa.... turbo engine sure ade wastegate, the internal wastegate.... its already there, i guess the bugger main with the actuation ke ape...

crank walk.... this you might need to read up, lots of articles.... if you have an oil pressure reading i think thats the easiest way to tell initially short of trying to shove the crank around
Yeah it probably has an internal wastegate already..because he told me it is complete stock engine.
He only have boost meter.. any other way to find out about the crank walk?
I read somewhere pressing the clutch and looking at the rpm can somewhat identify crank walk? True for evo 4 engine?
 

lsm1991

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lsm1991

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Yeah it probably has an internal wastegate already..because he told me it is complete stock engine.
He only have boost meter.. any other way to find out about the crank walk?
I read somewhere pressing the clutch and looking at the rpm can somewhat identify crank walk? True for evo 4 engine?
mild its kind of difficult to notice? when its bad, it clunks when you press the clutch (at that point its basically goodbye), and worse still it starts missing or just stops
 

6UE5t

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6UE5t

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Hi guys, currently I'm interested to play turbo. Now playing NA car, neo vvl engine.
Was looking at a EVO 4 waja.
Since I'm new, I don't know much about turbo. So asking for help to understand the car specification.
Also need some clarifications on few things.
Engine stock evo 4 with evo 4 gearbox LSD locked. Evo 6 ecu.

1) Petrol tank 4wd evo 4 --> to get accurate fuel reading.
2) Engine evo 4, ecu evo 6 --> He said due to evo 6 ecu can adjust and remap, so no need management. He made the car exhaust to spit fire when high ram.. Is this true about evo 6 ecu better and is it good for the engine to spit fire lol.
3) He didn't use wastegate due to already setting ecu to boost at only 1.3-1.4 bar. He said its safer to avoid wastegate complications if it spoilt.
4) He installed speed density rom map sensor and airtemp sensor. Is this good?
5) have Sheepdog blowoff. What does this do?

Also, what kind of FC am I expecting out of a evo 4 engine lol. Leg is moderately heavy.

Thanks
Is it AWD or still 2WD?

ECU is ok to use Evo 6 coz yes can remap. Actually can also use Link ECU board inside, so the casing still looks like stock ECU but can have better mapping.

Wastegate is always there just not external type. The stock one is internal gate with actuator. External is better for higher power application but then of course you need to mod your exhaust, either put the wastegate at the manifold or at the O2 housing. Note that stock Evo 4-10 turbos are twin scroll type, so if you put wastegate at the manifold then the piping is more difficult is you want to do correctly. Some say ideally you need 2 wastegates if at manifold! Internal wastegate is simple and still capable to handle plenty of power (maybe around 300-400hp), so if your target power is not so high then no need external wastegate. My Evo 9 still uses stock manifold, also internal wastegate but just higher 18psi aftermarket actuator.

MAP sensor is often more recommended because it's easily compatible with aftermarket ECU and less restrictions on the intake. If still use the stock MAF sensor then you're stuck with 3' piping and all that barrier of the MAF between the air filter and the intake. Having said that there are still many Evos that retains the MAF and make big 400+ hp. Mine is removed already as well.

Blow off is to relieve the back pressure that the turbo might suffer when the throttle butterfly is closed if you lift off the gas. If you don't have it, then your turbo will break, so all turbo cars have, just that stock cars even Evos will have recirculating type which flows back the air to the turbo suction. Your Sheepdog is another type which flows the air out to atmosphere hence will make more noise. This is also possible coz you have converted to MAP. If still uses MAF then for Evos should still use the recirculating type. As long as your Sheepdog is not leaking then it's still ok to just use.

As for fuel, be prepared to pay and visit fuel stations frequently! If driven normal it cam only give 7, maybe 8km/ltr at best! If you boost up here and there then it will drop to just 5km/ltr! It's not true though that you must use 97. You can use 95 provided the ECU is mapped for it. The higher octane though allows more safety especially if you want to boost higher than stock. Again comes back to how much power you want.
 

brokenjars

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brokenjars

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Is it AWD or still 2WD?

ECU is ok to use Evo 6 coz yes can remap. Actually can also use Link ECU board inside, so the casing still looks like stock ECU but can have better mapping.

Wastegate is always there just not external type. The stock one is internal gate with actuator. External is better for higher power application but then of course you need to mod your exhaust, either put the wastegate at the manifold or at the O2 housing. Note that stock Evo 4-10 turbos are twin scroll type, so if you put wastegate at the manifold then the piping is more difficult is you want to do correctly. Some say ideally you need 2 wastegates if at manifold! Internal wastegate is simple and still capable to handle plenty of power (maybe around 300-400hp), so if your target power is not so high then no need external wastegate. My Evo 9 still uses stock manifold, also internal wastegate but just higher 18psi aftermarket actuator.

MAP sensor is often more recommended because it's easily compatible with aftermarket ECU and less restrictions on the intake. If still use the stock MAF sensor then you're stuck with 3' piping and all that barrier of the MAF between the air filter and the intake. Having said that there are still many Evos that retains the MAF and make big 400+ hp. Mine is removed already as well.

Blow off is to relieve the back pressure that the turbo might suffer when the throttle butterfly is closed if you lift off the gas. If you don't have it, then your turbo will break, so all turbo cars have, just that stock cars even Evos will have recirculating type which flows back the air to the turbo suction. Your Sheepdog is another type which flows the air out to atmosphere hence will make more noise. This is also possible coz you have converted to MAP. If still uses MAF then for Evos should still use the recirculating type. As long as your Sheepdog is not leaking then it's still ok to just use.

As for fuel, be prepared to pay and visit fuel stations frequently! If driven normal it cam only give 7, maybe 8km/ltr at best! If you boost up here and there then it will drop to just 5km/ltr! It's not true though that you must use 97. You can use 95 provided the ECU is mapped for it. The higher octane though allows more safety especially if you want to boost higher than stock. Again comes back to how much power you want.
I see..
Its 2wd now. The evo 4 LSD is locked apparently. Illegal to have 4wd right?

I will maintain it stock for now. He said his boost is around 1.4 bar.. how much horsepower will he be making? Is this stock and do I need to install the wastegate?

The engine sounds a bit loud as startup but he told me its because of his hp sound probably no good. He said if stand in front the engine sounds softer.
 

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Ah yeah i never had any turbo engine..best to bring a friend i guess.
Alright will get it tuned again if i buy the car.

Standard evo 4 dont have a wastegate right? Is it necessary to installed one then?

How to check for crank walk in an evo?
Waste gate have, maybe you mean blow valve?......
 

lsm1991

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lsm1991

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I see..
Its 2wd now. The evo 4 LSD is locked apparently. Illegal to have 4wd right?

I will maintain it stock for now. He said his boost is around 1.4 bar.. how much horsepower will he be making? Is this stock and do I need to install the wastegate?

The engine sounds a bit loud as startup but he told me its because of his hp sound probably no good. He said if stand in front the engine sounds softer.
usually when they say lock, they mean locked to 2wd... not 4wd.... waja 4wd is not a legal or easy job... will involve 'interesting' fab work

horsepower, ask the dude... if he comes out with a number then ask for a dyno sheet.... ask in that order see if hes gona be honest.

also, 1.4 this one banyak conflicting info, he earlier mentioned it was tuned for 1.3, howcome its boosting to 1.4?
also, again, theres already a wastegate (the internal one) otherwise your boost will just go up and up.
 

brokenjars

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usually when they say lock, they mean locked to 2wd... not 4wd.... waja 4wd is not a legal or easy job... will involve 'interesting' fab work

horsepower, ask the dude... if he comes out with a number then ask for a dyno sheet.... ask in that order see if hes gona be honest.

also, 1.4 this one banyak conflicting info, he earlier mentioned it was tuned for 1.3, howcome its boosting to 1.4?
also, again, theres already a wastegate (the internal one) otherwise your boost will just go up and up.
Yeah, he said its locked to 2WD.
He said boost boleh naik 1.3 to 1.4 bar. maybe 1.35 bar? haha
Yup, I did asked about the hp. He said tuned long ago so he forgot already, dyno paper also hilang already. He installed the engine from 2013 till now he said no issue, only small problems like drive shaft spoilt (ori evo 4 not potong sambung), bushes worn out and last year he changed timing belt and clutch.
 

6UE5t

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6UE5t

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I see..
Its 2wd now. The evo 4 LSD is locked apparently. Illegal to have 4wd right?

I will maintain it stock for now. He said his boost is around 1.4 bar.. how much horsepower will he be making? Is this stock and do I need to install the wastegate?

The engine sounds a bit loud as startup but he told me its because of his hp sound probably no good. He said if stand in front the engine sounds softer.
Well many convert to AWD which is more recommended coz can handle power better and it's what makes Evo special. Fwd with this kind of power will chew up the front tires fast.

Evo 9 stock boost peaking around 1.45 then tapered down to about 1.2. Not sure about Evo 4, I think not yet reaching 1.4 for stock boost more like 1.2-1.3 then maybe tapered down to 1-1.1.

As I said above, if you feel the power now enough and you see the pressure on the boost gauge is stable, then no need to change to external gate yet. Changing to external gate will require taking off the turbo then welding shut the internal gate or remove it completely, then modify either the manifold or O2 housing to install the wastegate, all will cost a lot of money too. If you're just targeting 300+ hp, then just use upgraded actuator like me.

Do you have an electronic boost controller? If no, I recommend you get one like Greddy Profec B v2, or the newer OLED version.
 

lsm1991

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Yeah, he said its locked to 2WD.
He said boost boleh naik 1.3 to 1.4 bar. maybe 1.35 bar? haha
Yup, I did asked about the hp. He said tuned long ago so he forgot already, dyno paper also hilang already. He installed the engine from 2013 till now he said no issue, only small problems like drive shaft spoilt (ori evo 4 not potong sambung), bushes worn out and last year he changed timing belt and clutch.
These converts, u better know what ur getting into. I'm curious bout one thing, can you check what's the rim specs front and back? Want to know how many lugs it uses




Well many convert to AWD which is more recommended coz can handle power better and it's what makes Evo special. Fwd with this kind of power will chew up the front tires fast.

Evo 9 stock boost peaking around 1.45 then tapered down to about 1.2. Not sure about Evo 4, I think not yet reaching 1.4 for stock boost more like 1.2-1.3 then maybe tapered down to 1-1.1.

As I said above, if you feel the power now enough and you see the pressure on the boost gauge is stable, then no need to change to external gate yet. Changing to external gate will require taking off the turbo then welding shut the internal gate or remove it completely, then modify either the manifold or O2 housing to install the wastegate, all will cost a lot of money too. If you're just targeting 300+ hp, then just use upgraded actuator like me.

Do you have an electronic boost controller? If no, I recommend you get one like Greddy Profec B v2, or the newer OLED version.
4wd Waja is always sketchy never go for those. Even if you don't mind illegal mods, there is no direct pnp floor you can use, usually end up with a tongek setup or mangled floor.

Evo9 boost peaks at 1.3 then tappers off. This I'm pretty sure.
 

brokenjars

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brokenjars

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Well many convert to AWD which is more recommended coz can handle power better and it's what makes Evo special. Fwd with this kind of power will chew up the front tires fast.

Evo 9 stock boost peaking around 1.45 then tapered down to about 1.2. Not sure about Evo 4, I think not yet reaching 1.4 for stock boost more like 1.2-1.3 then maybe tapered down to 1-1.1.

As I said above, if you feel the power now enough and you see the pressure on the boost gauge is stable, then no need to change to external gate yet. Changing to external gate will require taking off the turbo then welding shut the internal gate or remove it completely, then modify either the manifold or O2 housing to install the wastegate, all will cost a lot of money too. If you're just targeting 300+ hp, then just use upgraded actuator like me.

Do you have an electronic boost controller? If no, I recommend you get one like Greddy Profec B v2, or the newer OLED version.
it has a turbo timer greddy. Is this the electronic boost controller?
Yeah I will just keep it stock boost
 

brokenjars

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brokenjars

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These converts, u better know what ur getting into. I'm curious bout one thing, can you check what's the rim specs front and back? Want to know how many lugs it uses






4wd Waja is always sketchy never go for those. Even if you don't mind illegal mods, there is no direct pnp floor you can use, usually end up with a tongek setup or mangled floor.

Evo9 boost peaks at 1.3 then tappers off. This I'm pretty sure.
rim is 17"x9jj
 

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Here's my reply on RED font. Hope it helps and correct me if im wrong.

Hi guys, currently I'm interested to play turbo. Now playing NA car, neo vvl engine.
Was looking at a EVO 4 waja.
Since I'm new, I don't know much about turbo. So asking for help to understand the car specification.
Also need some clarifications on few things.
Engine stock evo 4 with evo 4 gearbox LSD locked. Evo 6 ecu.

1) Petrol tank 4wd evo 4 --> to get accurate fuel reading.
i dont think stock tank gonna have any different. fuel level measures by a floating arm at the fuel pump cartridge.
2) Engine evo 4, ecu evo 6 --> He said due to evo 6 ecu can adjust and remap, so no need management. He made the car exhaust to spit fire when high ram.. Is this true about evo 6 ecu better and is it good for the engine to spit fire lol.
it is ok to use evo 6 ecu as it has newer ROM provided it is reflash tune to the current engine condition. if the tuner good enuff, ecu can be
re install with new ROM for more function such as flat foot shift and antilag. those spit fire were mild function of using rev limiter with plug
misfiring.
3) He didn't use wastegate due to already setting ecu to boost at only 1.3-1.4 bar. He said its safer to avoid wastegate complications if it spoilt.
stock evo ecu (evo 4 above) has boost limit, and can also be reflash to put higher boost limit. on your case, tuner put 1.4 bar. it has nothing to
with wastegate complication as stock turbo has wastegate actuator in standard form to run the job. but there are some case, owner unproperly install wastegate without balance the holes for twin scroll. so boost would be unstable and dangerous. u need to know what is the actual function of going for external wastegate.

4) He installed speed density rom map sensor and airtemp sensor. Is this good?
normally they do this in order to delete MAF sensor. ecu will take parameter from speed sensor and map sensor for the mapping.
5) have Sheepdog blowoff. What does this do?
sheepdog is a aftermarket blow-off, just as same as other aftermarket blow-off.

Also, what kind of FC am I expecting out of a evo 4 engine lol. Leg is moderately heavy.

Thanks
 

6UE5t

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6UE5t

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...
4wd Waja is always sketchy never go for those. Even if you don't mind illegal mods, there is no direct pnp floor you can use, usually end up with a tongek setup or mangled floor.

Evo9 boost peaks at 1.3 then tappers off. This I'm pretty sure.
Well my tuner has done several Waja to Evo full conversion with AWD. There's one even looks like my clone!

I believe 1.3 was peak for Evo 8 GSR. Starting from 8MR and 9, they peak at about 20-21psi which is about 1.4 bars.

it has a turbo timer greddy. Is this the electronic boost controller?
Yeah I will just keep it stock boost
Turbo timer is different. It only adds idle time after shutting off the key so that the heat at turbo shaft has extra time to cool down a bit.